view: bitcoin has hit its full potential

[Robert Paulson]

your bank can close your credit card and freeze your account and there's nothing you can do about that.
bitcoin allows you to become your own bank, you can even loan funds to other people without anyone being able to stop you, no credit card can do that.

There are very few bank users who worry about having their account frozen or their credit card's line of credit frozen, because most people aren't terrorists or drug dealers. So tell me again why exactly everyone is going to start using bitcoin? Why would I want to loan money to a friend? That sounds like a bad idea to begin with, but I suppose if I really wanted to, I'd just write him a check?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=796646.msg8973821#msg8973821

the IMF tells you black on white that it considers confiscating people's money and you still don't care.
what else needs to happen for you to understand that sooner or later they are going to rob you.
there won't be any more obvious signals than this, the next step is you wake up one day and your bank account is frozen.

just like this guy did:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=160292.0

[sublime5447]

your bank can close your credit card and freeze your account and there's nothing you can do about that.
bitcoin allows you to become your own bank, you can even loan funds to other people without anyone being able to stop you, no credit card can do that.

There are very few bank users who worry about having their account frozen or their credit card's line of credit frozen, because most people aren't terrorists or drug dealers. So tell me again why exactly everyone is going to start using bitcoin? Why would I want to loan money to a friend? That sounds like a bad idea to begin with, but I suppose if I really wanted to, I'd just write him a check?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=796646.msg8973821#msg8973821

the IMF tells you black on white that it considers confiscating people's money and you still don't care.
what else needs to happen for you to understand that sooner or later they are going to rob you.
there won't be any more obvious signals than this, the next step is you wake up one day and your bank account is frozen.

just like this guy did:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=160292.0

Right now they are paying me to hold dollars, I can get more gold, more gas, more commodities, and after the last 4 days more stock. BTC is down 60 percent over the last 10 months, the good ol USD is up 8-9 percent against the euro, 9-11 percent against gold, 3 dollar gas is on the way. Bitcoin is inflating (which is a function of supply AND DEMAND) while the USD is deflating and you are telling me I will get robbed holding dollars and get rich holding BTC, I am telling you it is just the opposite. The best assets class right now is USD. 

[Wexlike]

Why do you spend so much time in a bitcoin forum, if bitcoin is so bad compared to your dollar ?

[fonzie]

Why do you spend so much time in a bitcoin forum, if bitcoin is so bad compared to your dollar ?

ALTRUISM

[Robert Paulson]

your bank can close your credit card and freeze your account and there's nothing you can do about that.
bitcoin allows you to become your own bank, you can even loan funds to other people without anyone being able to stop you, no credit card can do that.

There are very few bank users who worry about having their account frozen or their credit card's line of credit frozen, because most people aren't terrorists or drug dealers. So tell me again why exactly everyone is going to start using bitcoin? Why would I want to loan money to a friend? That sounds like a bad idea to begin with, but I suppose if I really wanted to, I'd just write him a check?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=796646.msg8973821#msg8973821

the IMF tells you black on white that it considers confiscating people's money and you still don't care.
what else needs to happen for you to understand that sooner or later they are going to rob you.
there won't be any more obvious signals than this, the next step is you wake up one day and your bank account is frozen.

just like this guy did:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=160292.0

Right now they are paying me to hold dollars, I can get more gold, more gas, more commodities, and after the last 4 days more stock. BTC is down 60 percent over the last 10 months, the good ol USD is up 8-9 percent against the euro, 9-11 percent against gold, 3 dollar gas is on the way. Bitcoin is inflating (which is a function of supply AND DEMAND) while the USD is deflating and you are telling me I will get robbed holding dollars and get rich holding BTC, I am telling you it is just the opposite. The best assets class right now is USD. 

your basically gambling that youll be able to pull your dollars out before they confiscate them or inflate them to zero.
America can't have a deflating dollar, it has too much debt.
you can be sure the printing press is being warmed up.

[sgbett]

your bank can close your credit card and freeze your account and there's nothing you can do about that.
bitcoin allows you to become your own bank, you can even loan funds to other people without anyone being able to stop you, no credit card can do that.

There are very few bank users who worry about having their account frozen or their credit card's line of credit frozen, because most people aren't terrorists or drug dealers. So tell me again why exactly everyone is going to start using bitcoin? Why would I want to loan money to a friend? That sounds like a bad idea to begin with, but I suppose if I really wanted to, I'd just write him a check?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=796646.msg8973821#msg8973821

the IMF tells you black on white that it considers confiscating people's money and you still don't care.
what else needs to happen for you to understand that sooner or later they are going to rob you.
there won't be any more obvious signals than this, the next step is you wake up one day and your bank account is frozen.

just like this guy did:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=160292.0

Right now they are paying me to hold dollars, I can get more gold, more gas, more commodities, and after the last 4 days more stock. BTC is down 60 percent over the last 10 months, the good ol USD is up 8-9 percent against the euro, 9-11 percent against gold, 3 dollar gas is on the way. Bitcoin is inflating (which is a function of supply AND DEMAND) while the USD is deflating and you are telling me I will get robbed holding dollars and get rich holding BTC, I am telling you it is just the opposite. The best assets class right now is USD. 

Shareholder mentality. Look no further than the next quarter.

[Wekkel]

The average guy still trusts his currency and bank account. Gold is poised to go down instead of up, partially because of this. Only when trouble and fear return - this time with a real effect on the average guy (think Cyprus) - we will see an effect on typical safe havens.

Don't smash the guys that tell you that TBTB still appear to be in full control. Be patient and take every possible scenario into account.

[NotLambchop]

...
your basically gambling that youll be able to pull your dollars out before they confiscate them or inflate them to zero...

If the USD becomes worthless, stuff like law/order will be history.  You need those things for money of any kind to work better than a pawnshop .25 or a meat cleaver.  On top of being money, BTC also needs at least a web-enabled mobile device to work.
Grid power/interwebs/cell service will also be sporadic at best.  Those you also need before BTC can work.  BTC: Not apocalypse-friendly.

OTH, if BTC becomes worthless right now? I'd have to explain to most folks what BTC *is* before asking them if they cared
As far as me gambling on "pulling my dollars out"?  Working out well thus far.  Total losses over my lifetime?  Zero

...(think Cyprus) - we will see an effect on typical safe havens.
...

Memories...

*TL;DR:  The government needs you for your wool and, occasionally, lamb chops.  This does not mean you're better off without it.  As soon as you stray from the herd,

...When they you stray from the herd, as you seem to be suggesting you've done, they you do not somehow become un-sheep.
They You simply get eaten by wolves, or run over by drunk kids in pickups.
Sheep that resent being sheep are ill-adjusted sheep with high mortality rates.  Contrary to their belief, they aren't lions--they're simply unwell

[Robert Paulson]

...
your basically gambling that youll be able to pull your dollars out before they confiscate them or inflate them to zero...

If the USD becomes worthless, stuff like law/order will be history.  You need those things for money of any kind to work better than a pawnshop .25 or a meat cleaver.  On top of being money, BTC also needs at least a web-enabled mobile device to work.
Grid power/interwebs/cell service will also be sporadic at best.  Those you also need before BTC can work.  BTC: Not apocalypse-friendly.

OTH, if BTC becomes worthless right now? I'd have to explain to most folks what BTC *is* before asking them if they cared
As far as me gambling on "pulling my dollars out"?  Working out well thus far.  Total losses over my lifetime?  Zero

...(think Cyprus) - we will see an effect on typical safe havens.
...

Memories...

*TL;DR:  The government needs you for your wool and, occasionally, lamb chops.  This does not mean you're better off without it.  As soon as you stray from the herd,

...When they you stray from the herd, as you seem to be suggesting you've done, they you do not somehow become un-sheep.
They You simply get eaten by wolves, or run over by drunk kids in pickups.
Sheep that resent being sheep are ill-adjusted sheep with high mortality rates.  Contrary to their belief, they aren't lions--they're simply unwell

you will still have power and internet when the dollar goes to zero.
those utility companies are still there, they just wont accept worthless dollars as payment.

[NotLambchop]

^Bro, do you even world economy?

I'm guessing your entire economics knowledge is based on a couple of "Money as Debt" ut00b vids.

[sgbett]

^Bro, do you even world economy?

I'm guessing your entire economics knowledge is based on a couple of "Money as Debt" ut00b vids.

and what of your governmental collapse, when they just buy up 90% of the BTC with their infinite money, and big business takes over mining, and *nothing changes*

[NotLambchop]

^
Why in the world would my govt. do that?  Will it also snap up all the Litecoin?  And Doge?  And every shitcoin?  
Will my government also buy up every autumn leaf?

I know you don't think much of gubermints, but buying up 90% of BTC?  Just how overinvested are you?

[bustrod]

Telling people here that bitcoin has maxed out is like walking into a heaven's gate meeting and telling them that there is no mythical space ship in the sky waiting to beam them to heaven. ......... But the public is now aware of bitcoin and they're not interested. They don't care that it's centralized. People like centralization.

No, telling people that bitcoin has maxed out it's technological potential is like walking around in the '80s and telling people the internet has done all it's ever going to do.

Most people don't want to be their own bank. Most people prefer using simple, fast, reliable payment methods, like credit cards. Using such services, people have an insurance against theft and fraud.

My bank account is protected by FDIC.  I also don't keep more than the insured amount in my account--that's stupid.

To become stable, there must be a huge volume of traders, which will never happen because bitcoin solves a problem that people don't have and will never have.

No, it solves a problem that you don't have. No, none of you are interested in being your own banks. Of course, you would never think of putting more than the FDIC insured amount in your account. But this isn't about any of you. Your living conditions, opportunities, the way you think or behave is very likely NOT shared by every one of the other 7 billion people on the planet. You all seem to suffer from the same projectionist delusion.

Stop the generalizations and this ridiculous either/or argument. Credit Card OR Bitcoin? Bitcoin OR Fiat? If you don't personally see bitcoin as a benefit to you in your little world, then you're probably fortunate to live in a place where you have many choices of payment options and credit can be found every 300 ft if it's not already waiting for you at your house. Over half of the 7+ billion people on this planet do not yet have access to the internet, but that is changing. About half live out their daily life without ever interacting with a financial institution, due to inaccessibility, corruption, cultural tendency, etc. Forget how many total people that leaves that do not hold credit cards or even have access to credit. Of the well over 3.5 billion people that don't have your privileged financial instruments, can you imagine that there just might be some that would see a tremendous benefit to buying/holding/spending a global currency not debased by their corrupt government within their corroding inflated economies? And you can't argue that bitcoin is mainstream, or that everyone in the world has been given the opportunity to understand, acquire or use it...

I'd have to explain to most folks what BTC *is* before asking them if they cared

Or what of the immigrant workers sending money overseas to family? That's a $500+ billion market being relegated to an antiquated, monopolized, overpriced and time-protracted industry.

Credit card fraud. Identity theft. Consumer data breaches. Sure, credit card companies can continue patching the leaky pipes, but will you allow yourself to be convinced that this time it's different and these will be the patches that stick for good?

There are very valid reasons for credit and there is a place for it in our society. However, debt money is not the wisest choice for every financial transaction conceivable. In fact, credit has created a stigma in generations of people that spending more money than they have is 'ok'.

Oh, and that national debt?  We lied--we're never paying it back.

So just keep borrowing?

[Robert Paulson]

Oh, and that national debt?  We lied--we're never paying it back.  And you can't keep calling  to bug us about it.  Because Geneva Convention

your not paying it back? no problem, then we won't loan you money anymore.
unfortunately for you, you need the rest of the world to loan you 40.5 billion USD every month or else you can't pay for your imports.
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-states/balance-of-trade

[NotLambchop]

...

My bank account is protected by FDIC.  I also don't keep more than the insured amount in my account--that's stupid.

...
No, it solves a problem that you don't have. No, none of you are interested in being your own banks. Of course, you would never think of putting more than the FDIC insured amount in your account. But this isn't about any of you. Your living conditions, opportunities, the way you think or behave is very likely NOT shared by every one of the other 7 billion people on the planet. You all seem to suffer from the same projectionist delusion.

Stop the generalizations and this ridiculous either/or argument. Credit Card OR Bitcoin? Bitcoin OR Fiat? ...

Lol, I never said no one would like to be his own bank.  You, for one, clearly do.  I'd advise against it for now, though.  For now, just focus on learning the difference between statements of fact and overbroad generalizations.

I never suggested that CC and BTC are mutually exclusive.  I have both
I did say that inca's smartphone e-payment scenarios didn't require BTC at all, and could be implemented today with an ordinary bank account.
I then mentioned that CC is far more useful in realtime transactions, because confirmation delays intrinsic to teh protocol.

I'd have to explain to most folks what BTC *is* before asking them if they cared

Or what of the immigrant workers sending money overseas to family? That's a $500+ billion market being relegated to an antiquated, monopolized, overpriced and time-protracted industry.
...

It's important to keep things in context--another skill you should hone before "becoming your own bank."  The quoted line, restored to its proper context, suggests that USD crashing to zero would be a cataclysmic event, while BTC tanking would, at worst, cause srs lulz.

See?

@Robert Paulson:  Again, you don't understand how international commerce works.  US is not "borrowing" USD from anyone, much less yourself  
You don't think the rest of the world is trading with US and not sending collectors after us because we're loved, do you?
Srsly, go back to school or study for a GED

[RodeoX]

Oh great. Another "FINAL WARNING!!!!!!!" from the guy who can't understand bitcoin.   

[Robert Paulson]

@Robert Paulson:  Again, you don't understand how international commerce works.  US is not "borrowing" USD from anyone, much less yourself  
You don't think the rest of the world is trading with US and not sending collectors after us because we're loved, do you?
Srsly, go back to school or study for a GED

i understand how international commerce works perfectly fine.
the US is borrowing USD with every bond it sells.
the data is clear, the US is running a huge trade deficit on top of its already huge debt to the rest of the world.
if the world stops loaning, the US has to start printing 40 billion every month and hope that the rest of the world is stupid enough to continue accepting it as payment.

[jcoin200]

Oh great. Another "FINAL WARNING!!!!!!!" from the guy who can't understand bitcoin.   

I think he understands it just fine, and i've seen him have some good insight on btc trading.  He has made some good points.  It's acceptance by the general public has slowed to a near crawl.  No one is clamoring to get their hands on some btc.  It could be several years until its truly widely accepted, if something else hasn't taken its place by then.

but its pretty obvious people dont want to buy btc up front, wait for coins (4 days if you go w/ coinbase) and then hope the exchange rate doesn't screw you.

I also think btc is a great technology, but the media has done a good job scaring the average person away, and the steps involved to initially start using btc are a big hurdle for most people to get over.  It took me probably a few days of researching before I felt comfortable using/buying btc.  I think his points are valid that there is no "mass adoption" coming any time soon.

[NotLambchop]

@Robert Paulson:  Again, you don't understand how international commerce works.  US is not "borrowing" USD from anyone, much less yourself  
You don't think the rest of the world is trading with US and not sending collectors after us because we're loved, do you?
Srsly, go back to school or study for a GED

i understand how international commerce works perfectly fine.
the US is borrowing USD with every bond it sells.
the data is clear, the US is running a huge trade deficit on top of its already huge debt to the rest of the world.
if the world stops loaning, the US has to start printing 40 billion every month and hope that the rest of the world is stupid enough to continue accepting it as payment.

Robert Robert Robert...

You keep forgetting that we owe nothing but worthless dollars, dollars dat are "already dead," as you so poignantly pointed out.
Dollars you'll certainly agree we just print by the boatload.
Not much of a debt, amirite?

*And no, you don't understand economics.  Let me explain it to you in terms you'll understand:
1. You have lent Anon 1 BTC.
2. Annon now owes you 1 BTC.
3. Anon, as is customary in Bitcoinland, tells you he ain't got it.

Who's got whose balls?

[Robert Paulson]

@Robert Paulson:  Again, you don't understand how international commerce works.  US is not "borrowing" USD from anyone, much less yourself  
You don't think the rest of the world is trading with US and not sending collectors after us because we're loved, do you?
Srsly, go back to school or study for a GED

i understand how international commerce works perfectly fine.
the US is borrowing USD with every bond it sells.
the data is clear, the US is running a huge trade deficit on top of its already huge debt to the rest of the world.
if the world stops loaning, the US has to start printing 40 billion every month and hope that the rest of the world is stupid enough to continue accepting it as payment.

Robert Robert Robert...

You keep forgetting that we owe nothing but worthless dollars, dollars dat are "already dead," as you so poignantly pointed out.
Dollars you'll certainly agree we just print by the boatload.
Not much of a debt, amirite?

*And no, you don't understand economics.  Let me explain it to you in terms you'll understand:
1. You have lent Anon 1 BTC.
2. Annon now owes you 1 BTC.
3. Anon, as is customary in Bitcoinland, tells you he ain't got it.

Who's got whose balls?

only in this case if Anon can't borrow anymore he can't pay for any imports anymore and goes hungry.