Bitcoin Crashing Again....

[Ayers]

The biggest problem for bitcoin is that it is old news. There aren't practically any people left who haven't heard about bitcoin and everyone has already made up their mind on what to think of it. It means that the market is exhausted and there aren't many new people left who could potentially enter the market. The old enthusiasts are playing with each other, while money is slowly dripping out of the market.
You have to offer the masses something new to get excited about, if you want to stimulate the crypto market. No one will get excited about old news..

this is the biggest problem of the human race, they always want something new, they can't live with the same thing for too long, they get bored too fast with everything, it's more our fault and not bitcoin one

[DeadCoin]

The biggest problem for bitcoin is that it is old news. There aren't practically any people left who haven't heard about bitcoin and everyone has already made up their mind on what to think of it. It means that the market is exhausted and there aren't many new people left who could potentially enter the market. The old enthusiasts are playing with each other, while money is slowly dripping out of the market.
You have to offer the masses something new to get excited about, if you want to stimulate the crypto market. No one will get excited about old news..

b-but... but... but..  paypal... dollar collapsing..  bitcoin going to the moon... we'll all be rich. ... future currency..
 
you.. you must be a troll or a government shill

[cbeast]

Bitcoin is up 3243% over two years. Have a little patience! If you want fast returns, your local casino is always open.

[kokojie]

Where's your rebuttal? I don't see anything disputing the fact that PoS is much more expensive to attack against. You just keep saying Bitcoin is expensive to attack, that's your opinion, I don't believe $500m is expensive for a well funded and determined attacker, such as nation government or big banks.

How many zero-day vulnerabilities and network nodes do you think you can find with $500 million?

With PoW nodes, they have no reason to be storing a "hot wallet". With PoS nodes, every node has a "hot wallet" in order to prove "stake".

The implication is that a determined attacker may be able to control more than 50% of the "stake" for a lot less than $500Million. As a bonus, they would be using less than 1MW of power while attacking the network (assuming thousands of machines to get good connectivity/node isolation).

Yes, I will only accept bitcoins with 12 * 6 = 72 confirmation (12 hour ... "old" money)  so DOUBLE SPEND will NOT be possible with only 90% of hash power.

With >51% of the hash-power, an attacker can roll back transactions. With 90% of the hash-power, they can roll back 8 hours every hour (in secret until they release their fork).

Hot wallet requirement is depend on the actual implementation, Peercoin needs hot wallets, Bitshares and NxT do not. It's incorrect to say PoS needs to run hot wallets.

Also I can't understand the logic of spending money = successfully hacking thousands of machines (especially if they are PoS hot wallets, which the owner probably took measures to properly secure their private computer, if these private computers are so easily hacked, then all web servers are doomed). I can think of several ways to make my hot wallet on my private computer unhackable from the outside. Usually people lose their hot wallet because they got phished, their dropbox backup got hacked, or installed some malware/keylogger. A LOT more Bitcoin hot wallets has been hacked, compared to Peercoin PoS miner hot wallet, I think so far ZERO peercoin PoS miner hotwallet has been hacked, the reality doesn't agree with your theory.

Ok, let's assume in the unlikely event a hacker does obtain 51% of all currency available, then the chain can still just rollback the attacker address. If someone hacked 51% of all Bitcoin, you can be pretty sure Bitcoin is rolling back the attacker's address too, otherwise the eco-system will fail immediately. So the only way to attack a PoS network, is to buy the stake legitimately. Then as soon as you do start to attack the PoS network, the community will find out and act upon the aggression, your address will be getting blocked immediately, and lose all your stake that you spent an astronomical amount of money to buy. You can be pretty sure that any potential attacker would know this, therefore they won't even attempt this attack. This is the reason ZERO PoS network has been 51% attacked so far. It's basically a nuke in the PoS network's arsenal, it can be used, so the attacker in fear of the nuke, won't even attempt the attack, which end up making the nuke never used. But it's good to know it's there.

But if an attacker obtain 51% mining power in a PoW network, there's nearly nothing you could do, other than go out and out-spend the attacker by buying more hardware and spending more on electricity. I'm sure the hardware vendor and electricity companies would love to see this happen. If no one step up and out-spend the attacker, the attacker with their vast amount of hardware can PERMANENTLY disable the Bitcoin PoW network, there's nothing you could do to stop them, other than... converting Bitcoin to PoS .

[Odalv]

But if an attacker obtain 51% mining power in a PoW network, there's nearly nothing you could do, other than go out and out-spend the attacker by buying more hardware and spending more on electricity. I'm sure the hardware vendor and electricity companies would love to see this happen. If no one step up and out-spend the attacker, the attacker with their vast amount of hardware can PERMANENTLY disable the Bitcoin PoW network, there's nothing you could do to stop them, other than... converting Bitcoin to PoS .

Do you understand that solution is easy, and attacker will spend alot of money ?
If you refuse hi priority transactions then your block will become invalid and ignored by others. You have to accept bitcoin rules or hash your own empty alt-chain.

[maker88]

The biggest problem for bitcoin is that it is old news. There aren't practically any people left who haven't heard about bitcoin and everyone has already made up their mind on what to think of it. It means that the market is exhausted and there aren't many new people left who could potentially enter the market. The old enthusiasts are playing with each other, while money is slowly dripping out of the market.
You have to offer the masses something new to get excited about, if you want to stimulate the crypto market. No one will get excited about old news..

What a load of shit. 90% of the population doesn't know what bitcoin is.my girlfriend is a senior in college and is taking a class where her professor was talking about cryptocurrencies and bitcoin, besides her and the professor not one person had ever heard of bitcoin. I've talked about btc with hundreds of people in the world, not a single one of them knew any details about bitcoin other than it was some form of electronic money. Just because all the people on the bitcoin talk forum know about bitcoin, doesn't mean everyone already knows, the fact is 90% of people on the planet haven't a clue what it is.

[spazzdla]

The biggest problem for bitcoin is that it is old news. There aren't practically any people left who haven't heard about bitcoin and everyone has already made up their mind on what to think of it. It means that the market is exhausted and there aren't many new people left who could potentially enter the market. The old enthusiasts are playing with each other, while money is slowly dripping out of the market.
You have to offer the masses something new to get excited about, if you want to stimulate the crypto market. No one will get excited about old news..

What a load of shit. 90% of the population doesn't know what bitcoin is.my girlfriend is a senior in college and is taking a class where her professor was talking about cryptocurrencies and bitcoin, besides her and the professor not one person had ever heard of bitcoin. I've talked about btc with hundreds of people in the world, not a single one of them knew any details about bitcoin other than it was some form of electronic money. Just because all the people on the bitcoin talk forum know about bitcoin, doesn't mean everyone already knows, the fact is 90% of people on the planet haven't a clue what it is.

I sort of disagree

IMO 40% of people if not more have heard of BTC.. might know it as "Illegal money.. or ponzie scheme etc"

.00001% of people actually decent idea of what BTC really is.

[kokojie]

But if an attacker obtain 51% mining power in a PoW network, there's nearly nothing you could do, other than go out and out-spend the attacker by buying more hardware and spending more on electricity. I'm sure the hardware vendor and electricity companies would love to see this happen. If no one step up and out-spend the attacker, the attacker with their vast amount of hardware can PERMANENTLY disable the Bitcoin PoW network, there's nothing you could do to stop them, other than... converting Bitcoin to PoS .

Do you understand that solution is easy, and attacker will spend alot of money ?
If you refuse hi priority transactions then your block will become invalid and ignored by others. You have to accept bitcoin rules or hash your own empty alt-chain.

The point of having a 51% attack is because you can decide which chain is valid, and what transaction to include. These are straight from the bitcoin wiki:

An attacker that controls more than 50% of the network's computing power can, for the time that he is in control, exclude and modify the ordering of transactions. This allows him to:
    Reverse transactions that he sends while he's in control. This has the potential to double-spend transactions that previously had already been seen in the block chain.
    Prevent some or all transactions from gaining any confirmations
    Prevent some or all other miners from mining any valid blocks

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Weaknesses

[maker88]

The biggest problem for bitcoin is that it is old news. There aren't practically any people left who haven't heard about bitcoin and everyone has already made up their mind on what to think of it. It means that the market is exhausted and there aren't many new people left who could potentially enter the market. The old enthusiasts are playing with each other, while money is slowly dripping out of the market.
You have to offer the masses something new to get excited about, if you want to stimulate the crypto market. No one will get excited about old news..

What a load of shit. 90% of the population doesn't know what bitcoin is.my girlfriend is a senior in college and is taking a class where her professor was talking about cryptocurrencies and bitcoin, besides her and the professor not one person had ever heard of bitcoin. I've talked about btc with hundreds of people in the world, not a single one of them knew any details about bitcoin other than it was some form of electronic money. Just because all the people on the bitcoin talk forum know about bitcoin, doesn't mean everyone already knows, the fact is 90% of people on the planet haven't a clue what it is.

I sort of disagree


IMO 40% of people if not more have heard of BTC.. might know it as "Illegal money.. or ponzie scheme etc"

.00001% of people actually decent idea of what BTC really is.

Seriously? You think 3 billion people know what bitcoin is? I think even 1 billion is a huge stretch. I'd be very surprised, but I agree with the .00001 knowing what it actually is.

[piramida]

IMO 40% of people if not more have heard of BTC.. might know it as "Illegal money.. or ponzie scheme etc"

.00001% of people actually decent idea of what BTC really is.

Seriously? You think 3 billion people know what bitcoin is? I think even 1 billion is a huge stretch. I'd be very surprised, but I agree with the .00001 knowing what it actually is.

you guys understand that 0.00001% is exactly 70 people?

[cbeast]

But if an attacker obtain 51% mining power in a PoW network, there's nearly nothing you could do, other than go out and out-spend the attacker by buying more hardware and spending more on electricity. I'm sure the hardware vendor and electricity companies would love to see this happen. If no one step up and out-spend the attacker, the attacker with their vast amount of hardware can PERMANENTLY disable the Bitcoin PoW network, there's nothing you could do to stop them, other than... converting Bitcoin to PoS .

Do you understand that solution is easy, and attacker will spend alot of money ?
If you refuse hi priority transactions then your block will become invalid and ignored by others. You have to accept bitcoin rules or hash your own empty alt-chain.

The point of having a 51% attack is because you can decide which chain is valid, and what transaction to include. These are straight from the bitcoin wiki:

An attacker that controls more than 50% of the network's computing power can, for the time that he is in control, exclude and modify the ordering of transactions. This allows him to:
    Reverse transactions that he sends while he's in control. This has the potential to double-spend transactions that previously had already been seen in the block chain.
    Prevent some or all transactions from gaining any confirmations
    Prevent some or all other miners from mining any valid blocks

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Weaknesses

Using game theory, can you think of a reason anyone would bother trying this? Your logic skills will be tested.

[krodmandoon]

IMO 40% of people if not more have heard of BTC.. might know it as "Illegal money.. or ponzie scheme etc"

.00001% of people actually decent idea of what BTC really is.

Seriously? You think 3 billion people know what bitcoin is? I think even 1 billion is a huge stretch. I'd be very surprised, but I agree with the .00001 knowing what it actually is.

you guys understand that 0.00001% is exactly 70 people?

Arghh, facts, I hate facts. Stop spreading factual information you'll hurt the troll science.

[maker88]

IMO 40% of people if not more have heard of BTC.. might know it as "Illegal money.. or ponzie scheme etc"

.00001% of people actually decent idea of what BTC really is.

Seriously? You think 3 billion people know what bitcoin is? I think even 1 billion is a huge stretch. I'd be very surprised, but I agree with the .00001 knowing what it actually is.

you guys understand that 0.00001% is exactly 70 people?

While i admit that was quite the hyperbole, I think your world population figures are off...  0.00001% of 7 million is 70. There are more than 7 billion people in the world.

[nuff]

I really don't know why? I mean will we ever see $800 again... I doubt it for some reason

Give it time. Geez. What, you think Bitcoin is some get-rich-quick scheme?

[Odalv]

The point of having a 51% attack is because you can decide which chain is valid, and what transaction to include. These are straight from the bitcoin wiki:

An attacker that controls more than 50% of the network's computing power can, for the time that he is in control, exclude and modify the ordering of transactions. This allows him to:
    Reverse transactions that he sends while he's in control. This has the potential to double-spend transactions that previously had already been seen in the block chain.
    Prevent some or all transactions from gaining any confirmations
    Prevent some or all other miners from mining any valid blocks

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Weaknesses

Did you read this ?
http://gavintech.blogspot.ch/2012/05/neutralizing-51-attack.html

It will bad, but defense exists
 - Attacker cannot keep up a transaction-denial-of-service attack for long time.  (his blocks will be ignored as spam)
 - I think, by requiring more confirmation we can prevent him from double spending.
 - it will expensive for him.

[onealfa]

crashing ?   WHERE is crashing?
All i see is just a correction ....back to trend line


The bigger the bubble - the longer the correction time...
Worst scenario:   2-digit numbers (50-90 USD) by Easter time.
Then we might be in serious trouble. But certainly NOT NOW

[Wilhelm]

The graph does look plausable $293 would be the absolute minimum which I hope we never see.
At $300 people should be buying like hell

[arieq]

I really don't know why? I mean will we ever see $800 again... I doubt it for some reason

Bitcoin's price depends on the perception of the people. If enough people consider bitcoin as a good storage of value, it might hype immensely and we will see $800 or even $1000 again in near future. But if they think instead "better live now and spend everything" BTC will go down, too.

[panju1]

I really don't know why? I mean will we ever see $800 again... I doubt it for some reason

Bitcoin's price depends on the perception of the people. If enough people consider bitcoin as a good storage of value, it might hype immensely and we will see $800 or even $1000 again in near future. But if they think instead "better live now and spend everything" BTC will go down, too.

When most people have given up on bitcoin, that is when it will start its upward trend.

[kokojie]

I really don't know why? I mean will we ever see $800 again... I doubt it for some reason

Bitcoin's price depends on the perception of the people. If enough people consider bitcoin as a good storage of value, it might hype immensely and we will see $800 or even $1000 again in near future. But if they think instead "better live now and spend everything" BTC will go down, too.

Bitcoin CAN NOT be a good storage of value, because the PoW mining expense is way too high. By holding Bitcoin, you are basically charged a 10% tax each year. That's not a good storage of value. Bitcoin can become a good storage value if it converts to a Proof of Stake network.