Bitcoin is no hedge against inflation - i unadopted it.

[spazzdla]

Bitcoin would need inflation. But sadly is placed in it will never have it. What OP wanted to say was that bitcoin is not stable yet.

I agree and.. DOGECOIN!!!! DDDDOGECOIN!

[yayayo]

Bitcoin would need inflation. But sadly is placed in it will never have it. What OP wanted to say was that bitcoin is not stable yet.

Why the hell does Bitcoin need inflation? Because some scam artists in the past designed fiat currencies that rely on inflation to enslave the masses?
There is no proof that inflation has any positive longterm effect. In fact history has frequently shown that inflation leads to destruction of wealth especially among the less wealthy and poor with devastating social implications.

OP (rightfully) fears inflation caused by fractional reserve practices. But Bitcoin like gold is immune to such practices, because a real Bitcoin can always be distinguished from a Bitcoin-IOU.

The purchasing power stability of Bitcoin (currently still measured by the USD/Bitcoin exchange ratio) is a different thing. Bitcoin is still a very tiny currency and relatively few people own it. Such volatility will decrease with adoption and usage.

ya.ya.yo!

[seriouscoin]

I hold bitcoins because it allows me to store and transfer value without the help of a middleman or the permission of an authority.

wrong. It doesn't allow you to store value

Did it have value in the past? Yes.

Does it still have value today? Yes.

Will it have value in the future. I'm obviously betting (if you want to call it that, I've done my homework) it will.

Just because a currency has a floating exchange rate does not mean that it can not store value.

Perhaps experimental currencies are not for you. Come back in twenty years when things have normalized a bit.

Currency doesn't have value it represents value, if bitcoin has value it is not a currency .
Saying that currency has value, is like saying an inch has length.

well dumb fck, define value then? because i'm sure as hell you think value is price in USD.

[johnyj]

Currency doesn't have value it represents value, if bitcoin has value it is not a currency .
Saying that currency has value, is like saying an inch has length.

Value is decided by supply and demand together, as long as there is demand for it, the value can be decided by the supply divided by demand

The statement "currency does not have value" is a lie from the banks to force people to believe their valueless currency can be used to trade. But this trick works and most of the people fall for it

[johnyj]

People like to call it 'hedge against fiat inflation' others said 'it's digital gold'

None of it is true. In fact it is misleading. Bitcoin inflates twice as heavy as fiatmoney until 2016 - after that it'll continue to inflate at the same rate as fiatmoney. So how can that be a hedge against inflation or compared to gold? It's a lie.

Bitcoin is inflating heavily with around 10% per year. This is causing negative feedbackloops like we see now and causes high volatility.
The high inflation in bitcoin also impacts adoption in a negative way. People will probably not adopt something that goes down 90% of the time to make a crazy rise (maybe) at one point for a few weeks and then starts declining again for ages.
Sane people will not adopt that.

So, can i ask. Why was it again we are having that inflation? What sense does it make? Why do we need it?
Is Bitcoin maybe just a plot to make big miners rich?

I myself unadopted bitcoin again for that reason.
I refuse to invest in inflationary coins.

your thoughts?

OP, money supply has nothing to do with inflation

Take QE for example, since 2008 the base money supply has increased by more than 400%, while the annual inflation rate is less than 5%. Why? Because majority of those newly created money are sitting in bank's pocket, being not in circulation, they won't create any inflation

This is the same for bitcoin, although the annual money supply increase by 10%, most of the coins are hoarded, so those 4000 coins per day won't create any significant sell pressure on market, maximum couple of hundred coins per day were added daily on the market

Bitcoin's exchange rate has been falling for almost a year, but that is from a overshoot high due to extremely illiquid market condition, it's real valuation is closely related to its cost, which is about $300 to $400 per coin, it is still falling, that means the capital are still flowing into mining business instead of exchange. Until the profit of mining further dropped, this trend will continue, but very soon many miners will be just exchange electricity for coins

[johnyj]

I'm not an economist, so explain it to me like I'm a mechanic.  Bank A sends Bank B BTC IOU.  Presently, bank A sends bank B fiat IOU as well, no?  I don't see the difference.  Only that I as a consumer have the option of saving and transacting without a bank at all.

IOUs are not real money, they are just numbers in bank's database, just like your btc holdings in an exchange. When you withdraw bitcoin to your wallet, they will get a bank run if they don't have enough real bitcoin

Banks are quickly pushing out full-electronic money in order to avoid the bank run totally (Withdraw from bank X will always land in bank Y, and bank X just borrow it back from bank Y to face more withdraw pressure), but with bitcoin they can not do it, means much less risk in the whole financial system

[venlo]

i think bitcoins logic is flawed. The 10% inflation keep dragging it down.
People around here say: 'we need the inflation to support network and stuff'.
Sure, but if miners would mine less coins the price would be higher and the mining would bring them about the same money if not more.
I think bitcoin adoption is choked off by falling prices and inflation.

If it wouldn't inflate this heavy, prices would be higher, bearmarket would be shorter, upside would be higher, adoption would be faster, miners would make the same money, network would still be secured with the same hashpower.

Does that makes sense?

I think the high inflation and clumsy rewarddecrease is total bullshit and flawed logic.
You don't support adoption with high inflation, quite the opposite. You kill adoption with high inflation. The miners gain nothing from it.

Lower inflation would mean higher prices, better charts, more investement (who wants to buy into a decline?), higher adoption, higher prices.
Bitcoin is in a death-spiral due to its inflation. The logic is flawed.


what difference does it make for the miner if he mines 25 coins for 200$ or 12.5 coins for 400$ or more ?

That inflation is too high. There is no need to discuss it. That's a fact.

The high inflation doesn't serve its purpose, it just scares investors away.

There is absolutely no need to devalue the coins for this long time at this heavy rate.
Low prices don't serve networksecurity either.

[sublime5447]

I hold bitcoins because it allows me to store and transfer value without the help of a middleman or the permission of an authority.

wrong. It doesn't allow you to store value

Did it have value in the past? Yes.

Does it still have value today? Yes.

Will it have value in the future. I'm obviously betting (if you want to call it that, I've done my homework) it will.

Just because a currency has a floating exchange rate does not mean that it can not store value.

Perhaps experimental currencies are not for you. Come back in twenty years when things have normalized a bit.

Currency doesn't have value it represents value, if bitcoin has value it is not a currency .
Saying that currency has value, is like saying an inch has length.

You can keep harping about "units of account" until you are blue in the face. Bitcoin functions. I can trade it for other things. It has properties unlike any other asset on the planet and those properties are useful and valuable to me. I personally don't care how you or anyone else classifies it.

Bitcoin functions as a digital collectible not currency.

So bitcoin is an asset not a currency. But what kind of asset is it? Can you eat it? live under it? drink it? can bitcoin keep you warm at night? how does it compare to other asset classes? and is there any compelling reason to collect a digital collectible? 

[inBitweTrust]

i think bitcoins logic is flawed. The 10% inflation keep dragging it down.

You sound like a broken record and conveniently fail to respond to many of the answers given.
Let me guess, this post was an indirect way to pump an alt with less inflation than Bitcoin, right?

We heard the message, we are all doomed, please migrate over to your alt forum or at least pump your shitcoin here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=67.0

[inBitweTrust]

So bitcoin is an asset not a currency. But what kind of asset is it? Can you eat it? live under it? drink it? can bitcoin keep you warm at night? how does it compare to other asset classes? and is there any compelling reason to collect a digital collectible? 

Certainly, I can do all sorts of things with Bitcoin that I cannot do with any other asset or currency. Other alts may be able to replicate some of the features of bitcoin but not do so securely, or as conveniently.

What good is a PoS or DPoS coin if no one uses it or accepts it. It is important to me to be able to make purchases and pay employees in Bitcoin.

[johnyj]

Just saw this 

[blatchcorn]

Bitcoin unadopted you    Only those with above average intelligence and patience will be the ones to benefit from Bitcoin at the moment.  Your gains from Bitcoin will be limited to saving wire fees using Circle once Bitcoin becomes mainstream and you have no option than to use Bitcoin again, or look silly paying extortionate fees.

[hhanh00]

That inflation is too high. There is no need to discuss it. That's a fact.

The high inflation doesn't serve its purpose, it just scares investors away.

Sorry, but the fact is that you don't know what inflation is. However, you are free to invest in anything you want.

[btcbug]

sure, sure, but am i not better off not using it and to just jump in every 4 years 2 weeks before the halving, ride the wave and leave again? I don't see a reason to hold it during times of low adoption at least until 2020 when the inflationrate is at a reasonable level. I think for me it'll make more sense just to stay out until 2020.

I think my gold bullion will do a better job in protecting me against a collapse of the dollar.

We had 9 months of a bearmarket, adoption is not picking up and now the thing tanks on good news. No, thank you. You can have it.

Google trends shows declining interest in it. Not a good investement with that inflationrate, i guess. It is not designed to hold value or to be adopted at this point in time.

You could try and play it that way, but you'd also be trying to time the market, which imo is too risky if you were a very early adopter.

According to this chart transaction volume is increasing. https://blockchain.info/charts/n-transactions-excluding-popular?showDataPoints=false&timespan=&show_header=true&daysAverageString=7&scale=0&address=

Shouldn't you also be considering that the total BTC will only ever be 21 Million? What I mean is that with such a tiny total supply any inflation should be more than offset. It's just simple math that it doesn't take much adoption to move the price up significantly. I'm not arguing that the price has been going down lately, but nothing moves up in a straight line. Why would you expect different?

[polynesia]

That inflation is too high. There is no need to discuss it. That's a fact.

The high inflation doesn't serve its purpose, it just scares investors away.

High inflation can be factored in. Unexpected/unknown inflation is a problem.

[sublime5447]

Bitcoin functions as a digital collectible not currency.

So bitcoin is an asset not a currency. But what kind of asset is it? Can you eat it? live under it? drink it? can bitcoin keep you warm at night? how does it compare to other asset classes? and is there any compelling reason to collect a digital collectible? 

It's an asset that I have complete control over. It can not be seized without my permission, and I can transfer it to whomever I want without anyone preventing that from occurring. If you don't understand the value in that, then I don't know what to say.

I have complete control over the dump I took earlier today, no one is gonna seize it without my permission and I can transfer it to whom ever I want and there is a limited supply, guaranteed to less than 21 million in circulation, It is a deflationary dump and you are an idiot if you cant see the value in my dumps. I dont know what to tell you if you dont see the value in investing in my bowel movements, I can even make a digital representation of my dumps each day. My dumps have POS mining (proof of shit) It proves work was done in the production of each of my dumps. I add or remove laxatives to keep them produced at a steady rate. Invest in my digital collectible dumps if you dont you hate free markets! 

[shanem]

Bitcoin is never a hedge for inflation.
What you want to be is to become an early adopter and be rich when its value increases

[Q7]

Inflation will cause your purchasing power to decline. The same 10 buck that can get you tons of grocery 10 years ago has shrunk. So do you see the same to bitcoin? Put that under wider perspective by comparing against 5 years ago.

[fathur01]

Bitcoin is never a hedge for inflation.
What you want to be is to become an early adopter and be rich when its value increases

Sucks people think that way.. Just use it as a currency!

[sublime5447]

Bitcoin functions as a digital collectible not currency.

So bitcoin is an asset not a currency. But what kind of asset is it? Can you eat it? live under it? drink it? can bitcoin keep you warm at night? how does it compare to other asset classes? and is there any compelling reason to collect a digital collectible? 

It's an asset that I have complete control over. It can not be seized without my permission, and I can transfer it to whomever I want without anyone preventing that from occurring. If you don't understand the value in that, then I don't know what to say.

I have complete control over the dump I took earlier today, no one is gonna seize it without my permission and I can transfer it to whom ever I want and there is a limited supply, guaranteed to less than 21 million in circulation, It is a deflationary dump and you are an idiot if you cant see the value in my dumps. I dont know what to tell you if you dont see the value in investing in my bowel movements, I can even make a digital representation of my dumps each day. My dumps have POS mining (proof of shit) It proves work was done in the production of each of my dumps. I add or remove laxatives to keep them produced at a steady rate. Invest in my digital collectible dumps if you dont you hate free markets! 

Resorting to nonsense due to lack of a good argument is pretty childish. I'm regretting taking you off my ignore list. I had hoped that there might be some value in having a conversation with you, but apparently not.

Its not nonsense shitcoin and my dumps have a lot in common.. point is that it's an asset not a currency and that it is a shitty asset. I would much rather grains or oil to bitcoin.