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Author Topic: Bitcoin made rich just a few but it ruined many  (Read 9320 times)
the joint
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October 01, 2014, 08:11:10 PM
 #21

You don't lose until you sell.

Those who bought at $32 were saying the same thing until we crossed it, those who bought at $266 said the same thing until we crossed it, those who bought at $1200 said the same thing until....

"You don't lose until you sell" is wrong.  It's called unrealized loss.  And actually, this is bad for two reasons:  1) You can't realize a profit, and so your present purchasing power is lower, and 2) You can't even write off the loss on your taxes because it hasn't been realized yet.

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October 01, 2014, 08:13:32 PM
 #22

It's funny how much this mimics the sort of talk that was going around in 2011.  I feel like I am reading those posts as if it were yesterday.
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October 01, 2014, 08:16:41 PM
 #23

i don't tell anyone what to do, i state my opinion.

in my opinion bitcoin is the best form of money ever created because it fulfills the properties that money must have best.
besides that, all fiat money in history has failed, none survived its a 100% failure rate, i don't believe this time will be any different.

this is the only time in history when all the world is simultaneously using a fiat system, which is why i believe this is the greatest opportunity in our lifetime,
almost all western governments are in deep debts and will have to inflate them away by printing their fiat money into oblivion.

obviously like with anything else those who take the winning position first gain more.
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October 01, 2014, 08:18:52 PM
 #24

You don't lose until you sell.
...

In that case, you'll be interested in my 100% guaranteed Toilet Fund.  Here's how it works:

1.  Convert the money to be invested into cash.
2.  Deposit it into the toilet.
3.  Flush.
4.  ? ? ?
5.  Profit.

You will not lose a penny, as long as you remember not to sell.



Welcome to my ignore list.
Chuckee
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October 01, 2014, 08:21:43 PM
 #25

It's funny how much this mimics the sort of talk that was going around in 2011.  I feel like I am reading those posts as if it were yesterday.

Here's the thing: the utility of bitcoin is essentially the same as 2011. Sure, you can spend them online with some actual, real merchants now, but nobody gives a shit about that, except for holders who are looking to buy electronics and taking advantage of the short term promotions. But the general public still does not want bitcoin. Yes, the distributed ledger is wonderful, we get that. But for Joe Q Public, there is no point in converting to bitcoin. Really none at all.

The difference between now and 2011 is, bitcoin is valued much higher due to a speculative frenzy. We're still crashing down from the last bubble, that much should be obvious to anyone with the cognitive ability to see more than +/- one week.

Mark my words, we are going straight down to final capitulation. 2011 prices will be returning to a shady, uninsured and overseas bitcoin exchange near you.




Robert Paulson
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October 01, 2014, 08:23:13 PM
 #26

It's funny how much this mimics the sort of talk that was going around in 2011.  I feel like I am reading those posts as if it were yesterday.

Here's the thing: the utility of bitcoin is essentially the same as 2011. Sure, you can spend them online with some actual, real merchants now, but nobody gives a shit about that, except for holders who are looking to buy electronics and taking advantage of the short term promotions. But the general public still does not want bitcoin. Yes, the distributed ledger is wonderful, we get that. But for Joe Q Public, there is no point in converting to bitcoin. Really none at all.

The difference between now and 2011 is, bitcoin is valued much higher due to a speculative frenzy. We're still crashing down from the last bubble, that much should be obvious to anyone with the cognitive ability to see more than +/- one week.

Mark my words, we are going straight down to final capitulation. 2011 prices will be returning to a shady, uninsured and overseas bitcoin exchange near you.


there is no better alternative.
http://www.usdebtclock.org/
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October 01, 2014, 08:23:25 PM
 #27

...
Even after all this I am not ruined. I am still 5figures fiat to the better and have a few BTC to show.
...

Another ridiculous argument.

Investing in lottery tickets is stupid.  Overall, the scheme looses you money.
It doesn't suddenly become smart if you have won--it's still stupid.
You have won the lottery, which doesn't make you any smarter than all of the fools who lost.
I would advise you to stop, regardless of your past winnings.

You're being ridiculous now. If everyone would sell their coins and stay away from Bitcoin like you advise them to it would be worth nothing and have no use whatsoever. Is that what you want and advise? Really? I don't believe that for one second unless you really hate the concept of Bitcoin for some reason and want to see it fail. In that case your advice is not very objective and I wonder why you're still here.

I used an analogy to illustrate that doing something stupid and profiting doesn't make it smart.  Bitcoin is clearly not a lottery ticket.

But let's go with your direct substitution, Bitcoin=scratch ticket.
I have not suggested anyone should sell their scratch tickets to greater fools.
Merely that they shouldn't be *BUYING* lottery tickets from those who are selling them.

TL;DR:  Don't be the greater fool.
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October 01, 2014, 08:25:12 PM
 #28

You don't lose until you sell.
...

In that case, you'll be interested in my 100% guaranteed Toilet Fund.  Here's how it works:

1.  Convert the money to be invested into cash.
2.  Deposit it into the toilet.
3.  Flush.
4.  ? ? ?
5.  Profit.

You will not lose a penny, as long as you remember not to sell.



Welcome to my ignore list.

Dang, interwebs d00d I never met before, tell me it ain't so!!!1!1!

SgtSpike
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October 01, 2014, 08:25:52 PM
 #29

It's funny how much this mimics the sort of talk that was going around in 2011.  I feel like I am reading those posts as if it were yesterday.

Here's the thing: the utility of bitcoin is essentially the same as 2011. Sure, you can spend them online with some actual, real merchants now, but nobody gives a shit about that, except for holders who are looking to buy electronics and taking advantage of the short term promotions. But the general public still does not want bitcoin. Yes, the distributed ledger is wonderful, we get that. But for Joe Q Public, there is no point in converting to bitcoin. Really none at all.

The difference between now and 2011 is, bitcoin is valued much higher due to a speculative frenzy. We're still crashing down from the last bubble, that much should be obvious to anyone with the cognitive ability to see more than +/- one week.

Mark my words, we are going straight down to final capitulation. 2011 prices will be returning to a shady, uninsured and overseas bitcoin exchange near you.
Well, now that's just simply not going to happen.
sgbett
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October 01, 2014, 08:26:09 PM
 #30

...
Even after all this I am not ruined. I am still 5figures fiat to the better and have a few BTC to show.
...

Another ridiculous argument.

Investing in lottery tickets is stupid.  Overall, the scheme looses you money.
It doesn't suddenly become smart if you have won--it's still stupid.
You have won the lottery, which doesn't make you any smarter than all of the fools who lost.
I would advise you to stop, regardless of your past winnings.


You are really bad at this. You just keep demonstrating how poorly you reason, you really think buying bitcoin is like buying a lottery ticket?

I'd be intrigued to see your investment portfolio. 100% cash in the mattress??

You think of rebalancing fiat/BTC ratio as 'winnings'? Tell me, if you started with 1% of your assets in BTC, which by your very own claims is a hugely risky asset class, then due to appreciation discover that you are well over 50% invested. Would you advise that I not reduce my exposure to BTC?

It's interesting that of late, any suggestions of rational actions are being met with increasingly hostile, infuriated and hyperbolic assertions that suggest instead taking an incredibly reckless course of action, based on nothing other than price action.

None of the bears on here can give a credible reason as to why selling everything is truly the best course of action. Essentially every post they make is "please don't sell your dollars, buy dollars, no please prop up the dollar price, NO PLEEEEZE SALE ALLZ UR BITCHCOINZ".

Smells fishy to me.

As ever I continue to maintain, that you should not buy bitcoin except with money you can afford to lose.

"A purely peer-to-peer version of electronic cash would allow online payments to be sent directly from one party to another without going through a financial institution" - Satoshi Nakamoto
*my posts are not investment advice*
Dafar
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October 01, 2014, 08:28:22 PM
 #31

You don't lose until you sell.

Those who bought at $32 were saying the same thing until we crossed it, those who bought at $266 said the same thing until we crossed it, those who bought at $1200 said the same thing until....

"You don't lose until you sell" is wrong.  It's called unrealized loss.  And actually, this is bad for two reasons:  1) You can't realize a profit, and so your present purchasing power is lower, and 2) You can't even write off the loss on your taxes because it hasn't been realized yet.

Actually this idea of "you don't lose until you sell" was completely true since the birth of bitcoin until all the way to Nov 2013 which was the ATH. Will it still hold true now? Who knows. But if you believe there will be a new ATH in the future, then that statement is still true; it's better to be patient and gain money than to be scared and lose money.


The only problem is, the rise of bitcoin is never guaranteed




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NotLambchop
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October 01, 2014, 08:31:20 PM
 #32

...Would you advise that I not reduce my exposure to BTC?
...

I never told anyone to sell.  I simply told them not to buy your bag.

...
I used an analogy to illustrate that doing something stupid and profiting doesn't make it smart.  Bitcoin is clearly not a lottery ticket.

But let's go with your direct substitution, Bitcoin=scratch ticket.
I have not suggested anyone should sell their scratch tickets to greater fools.
Merely that they shouldn't be *BUYING* lottery tickets from those who are selling them.

TL;DR:  Don't be the greater fool.

Why does this need repeating?

P.S:  Though you may profit from selling your coin now, I do not advise you to do it.
You seem to be relatively well-off, and the ethics of unloading your bag on someone potentially less fortunate than yourself are questionable.
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October 01, 2014, 08:45:17 PM
 #33



Dang, interwebs d00d I never met before, tell me it ain't so!!!1!1!



What's up with the cartoon ponies?? You post them a little more frequently than a FinTech forum would expect.
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October 01, 2014, 08:51:00 PM
 #34

...
Even after all this I am not ruined. I am still 5figures fiat to the better and have a few BTC to show.
...

Another ridiculous argument.

Investing in lottery tickets is stupid.  Overall, the scheme looses you money.
It doesn't suddenly become smart if you have won--it's still stupid.
You have won the lottery, which doesn't make you any smarter than all of the fools who lost.
I would advise you to stop, regardless of your past winnings.

You're being ridiculous now. If everyone would sell their coins and stay away from Bitcoin like you advise them to it would be worth nothing and have no use whatsoever. Is that what you want and advise? Really? I don't believe that for one second unless you really hate the concept of Bitcoin for some reason and want to see it fail. In that case your advice is not very objective and I wonder why you're still here.

I used an analogy to illustrate that doing something stupid and profiting doesn't make it smart.  Bitcoin is clearly not a lottery ticket.

But let's go with your direct substitution, Bitcoin=scratch ticket.
I have not suggested anyone should sell their scratch tickets to greater fools.
Merely that they shouldn't be *BUYING* lottery tickets from those who are selling them.

TL;DR:  Don't be the greater fool.

Please explain me how does this work? At what point can someone who is new to Bitcoin and interested in it buy some coins and not be a 'greater fool' in your eyes? Is there a specific price point you have in mind that's okay or is anyone buying coins at any point always a greater fool? Or does he have to subscribe to your newsletter first so he can know when is the right time to buy? I'm just curious how you see this and what you think would be the right thing to do.

Bitcoin = Gold on steroids
findftp
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October 01, 2014, 08:52:19 PM
 #35

... and very very few realized their gains into fiat.

My gains are counted in BTC.


1FdwDuV2qgsw2w1Lza8nsea7L6mQxsc7g3
NotLambchop
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October 01, 2014, 08:58:45 PM
 #36

...
Even after all this I am not ruined. I am still 5figures fiat to the better and have a few BTC to show.
...

Another ridiculous argument.

Investing in lottery tickets is stupid.  Overall, the scheme looses you money.
It doesn't suddenly become smart if you have won--it's still stupid.
You have won the lottery, which doesn't make you any smarter than all of the fools who lost.
I would advise you to stop, regardless of your past winnings.

You're being ridiculous now. If everyone would sell their coins and stay away from Bitcoin like you advise them to it would be worth nothing and have no use whatsoever. Is that what you want and advise? Really? I don't believe that for one second unless you really hate the concept of Bitcoin for some reason and want to see it fail. In that case your advice is not very objective and I wonder why you're still here.

I used an analogy to illustrate that doing something stupid and profiting doesn't make it smart.  Bitcoin is clearly not a lottery ticket.

But let's go with your direct substitution, Bitcoin=scratch ticket.
I have not suggested anyone should sell their scratch tickets to greater fools.
Merely that they shouldn't be *BUYING* lottery tickets from those who are selling them.

TL;DR:  Don't be the greater fool.

Please explain me how does this work? At what point can someone who is new to Bitcoin and interested in it buy some coins and not be a 'greater fool' in your eyes? Is there a specific price point you have in mind that's okay or is anyone buying coins at any point always a greater fool? Or does he have to subscribe to your newsletter first so he can know when is the right time to buy? I'm just curious how you see this and what you think would be the right thing to do.

I'm providing the antidote to the "this thing can't lose, to the moon, 100k BTC by next year posts.  If it was up to me, n00bs would buy BTC when they were ready to *BUY stuff with it*.
K?
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October 01, 2014, 09:00:52 PM
 #37



Dang, interwebs d00d I never met before, tell me it ain't so!!!1!1!



What's up with the cartoon ponies?? You post them a little more frequently than a FinTech forum would expect.

Are you chatting me up, Bitcopia?

Or do you think ponies are my way of contacting my Reptilian Masters (long may They reign!)?
Robert Paulson
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October 01, 2014, 09:01:11 PM
 #38


TL;DR:  Don't be the greater fool.

i can assure you, that if you're trading bitcoins for some papers from a bank you are the greatest fool and probably deserve whats coming.
NotLambchop
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October 01, 2014, 09:03:05 PM
 #39

...
i can assure you, that if you're trading bitcoins for some papers from a bank you are the greatest fool and probably deserve whats coming.

An assurance from you, Robert Paulson, isn't worth the paper it's not written on Undecided
Robert Paulson
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October 01, 2014, 09:11:12 PM
 #40

...
i can assure you, that if you're trading bitcoins for some papers from a bank you are the greatest fool and probably deserve whats coming.

An assurance from you, Robert Paulson, isn't worth the paper it's not written on Undecided

how about an assurance from the US government, they will tell you they are bankrupt if you just ask them
http://budget.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=387875

or how about an assurance from reality
http://www.usdebtclock.org/

anyone who trades bitcoin for fiat is a fool and probably deserves whats coming.
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