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Author Topic: Bitcoin made rich just a few but it ruined many  (Read 9320 times)
wobber
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October 01, 2014, 06:05:41 PM
 #1

Besides the miners that HODL since the early CPU and GPU days and besides a lucky few that bought and cashed out before the any of the last bubbles had burst, the majority only lost money.

I was looking on the MtGox leaked transaction data, it seems most accounts that traded, traded to accumulate more coins and very very few realized their gains into fiat. That's pretty bad because if you had invested and you HODLed until the >$1000 peak but didn't took out the gains, you lost twice because either 1) MtGox ran away with most of your coins or 2)Your coins devalued to about $385 (today's price) 3) BOTH options

For the technology geeks that love BTC for what it is and use it to run away from govts fiat, it's a pretty instrument. But for the majority of the speculators it's a piss-poor instrument. See the guys that sold their homes to buy and now lost at least 50%.

Given this fact I believe most speculators are out so we're left with BTC being used only as money to buy and sell things. This might be the reason I cannot see any new adoption or 'new money' coming in. And without no new money, no new rallies and ATHs.

So, we're doomed, we might see prices lower than 250 this year.




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Dafar
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October 01, 2014, 06:08:05 PM
 #2

Maybe, or maybe not


I still think there's room for more money to enter... $12billion is nothing




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inca
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October 01, 2014, 06:14:28 PM
 #3

Devalued to 3x last years price!! Game is over. Give it a rest wobber.
hyphymikey
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October 01, 2014, 06:15:42 PM
 #4

You don't lose until you sell.

Those who bought at $32 were saying the same thing until we crossed it, those who bought at $266 said the same thing until we crossed it, those who bought at $1200 said the same thing until....
nomoreheroes7
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October 01, 2014, 06:17:48 PM
 #5

Agreed. The downtrend will probably continue for a while, and the longer it continues, the more ruined investors become, and the more investors will sell to avoid certain ruin...and so the cycle continues.
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October 01, 2014, 06:27:05 PM
 #6

Agreed. The downtrend will probably continue for a while, and the longer it continues, the more ruined investors become, and the more investors will sell to avoid certain ruin...and so the cycle continues.

There will come a point where only those that are willing to watch BTC go to zero are left..  Those people are buyers of BTC.
NotLambchop
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October 01, 2014, 06:34:44 PM
 #7

You don't lose until you sell.
...

In that case, you'll be interested in my 100% guaranteed Toilet Fund.  Here's how it works:

1.  Convert the money to be invested into cash.
2.  Deposit it into the toilet.
3.  Flush.
4.  ? ? ?
5.  Profit.

You will not lose a penny, as long as you remember not to sell.

Chuckee
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October 01, 2014, 06:44:33 PM
 #8

You don't lose until you sell.
...

In that case, you'll be interested in my 100% guaranteed Toilet Fund.  Here's how it works:

1.  Convert the money to be invested into cash.
2.  Deposit it into the toilet.
3.  Flush.
4.  ? ? ?
5.  Profit.

You will not lose a penny, as long as you remember not to sell.



 Cheesy Cheesy well said.  Grin Grin

I've got to say, this place is almost like a parody of classical bad investment advice, and I honestly wonder if people here are trolling or not.

"You don't lose until you sell."

:facepalm:

Between that and the oft given advice of throwing good money in after bad "dollar cost average your way down"... there will be many here who are going to lose their shirts on bitcoin. Don't say I didn't warn you all.

sgbett
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October 01, 2014, 07:05:59 PM
 #9

Bitcoin didn't lose people money, just like stocks don't.

People lose money because they are driven by fear and greed, and as a result made bad decisions.

What you fail to understand is that you are no different than those people, you see it as a binary win/lose trade in a vacuum. The only difference is that you are on the flip side "all in" on fiat racing toward a cliff edge backwards pointing and laughing. Exactly the same as all the people who were full btc before it crashed.

I currently have more btc tied up in gox than many of you will ever own. I lost even more btc than that on bitcoinica. I lost well over 50 BTC on mining.

Even after all this I am not ruined. I am still 5figures fiat to the better and have a few BTC to show.

I could have more if I'd guessed everything perfectly, but I didnt. And I knew I wouldn't so I never went all in on anything and instead hedged all my decisions. I did dollar cost average, I do hedge bull runs in fiat. I make smart, boring decisions. Like converting a little bit of fiat into BTC at a statistically significant market low. It might go down further and then maybe I'll buy more.

If BTC goes to zero, I am still not ruined.

If you were, you were doing it wrong. Learn your lesson, play better next time.

How much money *do* you make trolling btc talk anyway?

"A purely peer-to-peer version of electronic cash would allow online payments to be sent directly from one party to another without going through a financial institution" - Satoshi Nakamoto
*my posts are not investment advice*
RodeoX
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October 01, 2014, 07:17:07 PM
 #10

Well, bitcoin is not an investment. Nor does it claim to be a way to get rich. It is a payment network and nothing more. If we try having an economy based on guessing what the price will be tomorrow then we should expect wild boom and bust cycles. So everything is going as expected.

...
If BTC goes to zero, I am still not ruined.
...
Anyone who can not make this statement is in danger of a financial meltdown.

The gospel according to Satoshi - https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
Free bitcoin in ? - Stay tuned for this years Bitcoin hunt!
NotLambchop
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October 01, 2014, 07:17:12 PM
 #11

...
Even after all this I am not ruined. I am still 5figures fiat to the better and have a few BTC to show.
...

Another ridiculous argument.

Investing in lottery tickets is stupid.  Overall, the scheme looses you money.
It doesn't suddenly become smart if you have won--it's still stupid.
You have won the lottery, which doesn't make you any smarter than all of the fools who lost.
I would advise you to stop, regardless of your past winnings.
Chuckee
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October 01, 2014, 07:19:59 PM
 #12

Bitcoin didn't lose people money, just like stocks don't.

People lose money because they are driven by fear and greed, and as a result made bad decisions.

What you fail to understand is that you are no different than those people, you see it as a binary win/lose trade in a vacuum. The only difference is that you are on the flip side "all in" on fiat racing toward a cliff edge backwards pointing and laughing. Exactly the same as all the people who were full btc before it crashed.

I currently have more btc tied up in gox than many of you will ever own. I lost even more btc than that on bitcoinica. I lost well over 50 BTC on mining.

Even after all this I am not ruined. I am still 5figures fiat to the better and have a few BTC to show.

I could have more if I'd guessed everything perfectly, but I didnt. And I knew I wouldn't so I never went all in on anything and instead hedged all my decisions. I did dollar cost average, I do hedge bull runs in fiat. I make smart, boring decisions. Like converting a little bit of fiat into BTC at a statistically significant market low. It might go down further and then maybe I'll buy more.

If BTC goes to zero, I am still not ruined.

If you were, you were doing it wrong. Learn your lesson, play better next time.

How much money *do* you make trolling btc talk anyway?


If you have several BTC tied up in Gox and that doesn't even concern you, then obviously you are significantly well off when compared to the majority of posters here.

Many of them listened to snake oil salesmen and straight up con men like Risto, and his fancy long term trendlines, and are now coming to terms with the reality that they invested their family's savings -- and in many cases, retirement money -- into magic beans. Maybe bitcoin is just a hobby for you, but for these people, they are pegging their future on this and they're going to get burned badly.
Dafar
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October 01, 2014, 07:20:14 PM
 #13

Well, bitcoin is not an investment. Nor does it claim to be a way to get rich. It is a payment network and nothing more. If we try having an economy based on guessing what the price will be tomorrow then we should expect wild boom and bust cycles. So everything is going as expected.

...
If BTC goes to zero, I am still not ruined.
...
Anyone who can not make this statement is in danger of a financial meltdown.


A house is not an investment.... yet it is an investment.


Any asset that can appreciate in value is an investment




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Bitcopia
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October 01, 2014, 07:38:54 PM
 #14

Bitcoin didn't lose people money, just like stocks don't.

People lose money because they are driven by fear and greed, and as a result made bad decisions.

What you fail to understand is that you are no different than those people, you see it as a binary win/lose trade in a vacuum. The only difference is that you are on the flip side "all in" on fiat racing toward a cliff edge backwards pointing and laughing. Exactly the same as all the people who were full btc before it crashed.

I currently have more btc tied up in gox than many of you will ever own. I lost even more btc than that on bitcoinica. I lost well over 50 BTC on mining.

Even after all this I am not ruined. I am still 5figures fiat to the better and have a few BTC to show.

I could have more if I'd guessed everything perfectly, but I didnt. And I knew I wouldn't so I never went all in on anything and instead hedged all my decisions. I did dollar cost average, I do hedge bull runs in fiat. I make smart, boring decisions. Like converting a little bit of fiat into BTC at a statistically significant market low. It might go down further and then maybe I'll buy more.

If BTC goes to zero, I am still not ruined.

If you were, you were doing it wrong. Learn your lesson, play better next time.

How much money *do* you make trolling btc talk anyway?


Well said. I hope you get your coins back from Gox some day!

Also, OP is non-sense. A small fraction of the interested money invested in the last bubble. Smart money, big money, doesn't panic buy. They take their time and different players come in at different levels. They have been and will continue to invest in Bitcoin's infrastructure and bitcoin itself. Saying bitcoin will fail is on par with calling for a $40k+ bitcoin, both are plausible. Saying "we're doomed" for the reasons in the OP is either lunacy or obvious trolling.
RodeoX
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October 01, 2014, 07:45:01 PM
 #15

Well, bitcoin is not an investment. Nor does it claim to be a way to get rich. It is a payment network and nothing more. If we try having an economy based on guessing what the price will be tomorrow then we should expect wild boom and bust cycles. So everything is going as expected.

...
If BTC goes to zero, I am still not ruined.
...
Anyone who can not make this statement is in danger of a financial meltdown.


A house is not an investment.... yet it is an investment.


Any asset that can appreciate in value is an investment

That's actually a good one. When buying a house most people think of it as an investment. But when they shop for one that all goes out the window. If you want to invest in a house you should not think about how cute it is or if the kitchen is large enough for you. You should see only price and value. Your best bet is to buy in the slums or other undervalued markets. You should never use credit to invest, so you should only buy with cash. If your financing or looking for curb appeal, your not the investor. The developer is.  

The gospel according to Satoshi - https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
Free bitcoin in ? - Stay tuned for this years Bitcoin hunt!
sgbett
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October 01, 2014, 07:58:03 PM
 #16

Bitcoin didn't lose people money, just like stocks don't.

People lose money because they are driven by fear and greed, and as a result made bad decisions.

What you fail to understand is that you are no different than those people, you see it as a binary win/lose trade in a vacuum. The only difference is that you are on the flip side "all in" on fiat racing toward a cliff edge backwards pointing and laughing. Exactly the same as all the people who were full btc before it crashed.

I currently have more btc tied up in gox than many of you will ever own. I lost even more btc than that on bitcoinica. I lost well over 50 BTC on mining.

Even after all this I am not ruined. I am still 5figures fiat to the better and have a few BTC to show.

I could have more if I'd guessed everything perfectly, but I didnt. And I knew I wouldn't so I never went all in on anything and instead hedged all my decisions. I did dollar cost average, I do hedge bull runs in fiat. I make smart, boring decisions. Like converting a little bit of fiat into BTC at a statistically significant market low. It might go down further and then maybe I'll buy more.

If BTC goes to zero, I am still not ruined.

If you were, you were doing it wrong. Learn your lesson, play better next time.

How much money *do* you make trolling btc talk anyway?


Well said. I hope you get your coins back from Gox some day!

Also, OP is non-sense. A small fraction of the interested money invested in the last bubble. Smart money, big money, doesn't panic buy. They take their time and different players come in at different levels. They have been and will continue to invest in Bitcoin's infrastructure and bitcoin itself. Saying bitcoin will fail is on par with calling for a $40k+ bitcoin, both are plausible. Saying "we're doomed" for the reasons in the OP is either lunacy or obvious trolling.

Thanks very kind of you, and quite different from some of the opinions posted by people far smarter than me about how it was a stupid gamble.

I assumed a return of 10-20 cents on the dollar, and averaged down to just over 5 cents on the dollar. It was a calculated risk, with plenty of upside, a bit of downside, and I didn't go all on. Just one of many opportunities that presents itself in life. This one might pay, or it might not.

You are of course right. Market is never binary, buyers and sellers at every level, and thats what drives price action. Not some imaginary bogey man selling all the coins at whatever price until $0 because... FEAR

"A purely peer-to-peer version of electronic cash would allow online payments to be sent directly from one party to another without going through a financial institution" - Satoshi Nakamoto
*my posts are not investment advice*
sgbett
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October 01, 2014, 08:01:52 PM
 #17

Bitcoin didn't lose people money, just like stocks don't.

People lose money because they are driven by fear and greed, and as a result made bad decisions.

What you fail to understand is that you are no different than those people, you see it as a binary win/lose trade in a vacuum. The only difference is that you are on the flip side "all in" on fiat racing toward a cliff edge backwards pointing and laughing. Exactly the same as all the people who were full btc before it crashed.

I currently have more btc tied up in gox than many of you will ever own. I lost even more btc than that on bitcoinica. I lost well over 50 BTC on mining.

Even after all this I am not ruined. I am still 5figures fiat to the better and have a few BTC to show.

I could have more if I'd guessed everything perfectly, but I didnt. And I knew I wouldn't so I never went all in on anything and instead hedged all my decisions. I did dollar cost average, I do hedge bull runs in fiat. I make smart, boring decisions. Like converting a little bit of fiat into BTC at a statistically significant market low. It might go down further and then maybe I'll buy more.

If BTC goes to zero, I am still not ruined.

If you were, you were doing it wrong. Learn your lesson, play better next time.

How much money *do* you make trolling btc talk anyway?


If you have several BTC tied up in Gox and that doesn't even concern you, then obviously you are significantly well off when compared to the majority of posters here.

Many of them listened to snake oil salesmen and straight up con men like Risto, and his fancy long term trendlines, and are now coming to terms with the reality that they invested their family's savings -- and in many cases, retirement money -- into magic beans. Maybe bitcoin is just a hobby for you, but for these people, they are pegging their future on this and they're going to get burned badly.

Agree. What I don't see is how people that buy snake oil always blame the oil, or the salesman, or the poor oiled snake.

As it happens I believe a lost of what Risto says about long term trend lines (you are familiar with the 560k thread yes Wink?) and thus I am hedged in case that happens. Which is a quite different thing to gambling everything for if that happens. Risto is not to blame. People and their own greed is to blame.

Also, i wouldn't say the BTC at gox don't concern me. I rue their loss. I am incensed. I would be much better off with them!

Thing is that gets me nowhere, so I accept the loss and move on.

"A purely peer-to-peer version of electronic cash would allow online payments to be sent directly from one party to another without going through a financial institution" - Satoshi Nakamoto
*my posts are not investment advice*
Robert Paulson
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October 01, 2014, 08:03:52 PM
 #18

Bitcoin will make many more people rich, i am sure it is not a question of if but when.
it all comes down to the question when does China stop loaning money to America and America goes bankrupt.
when the dollar dies all fiat currencies die with it, the only viable alternative is bitcoin.

the price right now doesn't matter,
whats the point of tracking prices in a market where a few million USD can make the price swing wildly anyway.
one bored billionaire could single handedly send bitcoin back to 1000$ if he puts 14mil USD in bitstamp right now.
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October 01, 2014, 08:10:02 PM
 #19

Bitcoin will make many more people rich, i am sure it is not a question of if but when who.
...

If you're being honest, and not just trying to rope in some greater fools?
Clearly not you.
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October 01, 2014, 08:10:55 PM
 #20

...
Even after all this I am not ruined. I am still 5figures fiat to the better and have a few BTC to show.
...

Another ridiculous argument.

Investing in lottery tickets is stupid.  Overall, the scheme looses you money.
It doesn't suddenly become smart if you have won--it's still stupid.
You have won the lottery, which doesn't make you any smarter than all of the fools who lost.
I would advise you to stop, regardless of your past winnings.

You're being ridiculous now. If everyone would sell their coins and stay away from Bitcoin like you advise them to it would be worth nothing and have no use whatsoever. Is that what you want and advise? Really? I don't believe that for one second unless you really hate the concept of Bitcoin for some reason and want to see it fail. In that case your advice is not very objective and I wonder why you're still here.

Bitcoin = Gold on steroids
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