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Author Topic: BITCOINTALK STAFF QUIETLY BANS PEOPLE FOR SPEAKING OUT AGAINST THEM  (Read 7489 times)
h4xx0r
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October 08, 2014, 11:32:34 PM
 #61

This isn't the real world; it's an Internet forum and we go by the rules that have been set out before us.

That is ridiculous.

What I suggest is that people start suing the forum if they realize a loss due to some of the activities here.  

How it works is that you sue the whois privacy service (which is in Panama).  It is unlikely that company will provide a court defense over a service that costs a couple dollars a year.  Most likely they will either divulge the true registrant or simply default.  

If the true registrant is identified they will need to provide a defense and identify themselves or they will default.  If they identify themselves then you can start identifying the staff and calling them in for depositions.  If they default then you can probably get a court order to seize the domain from the .org registrar which is located in the USA.  If bicointalk.org were to default you really don't need that solid of a case, you just need a prima fascia case which will be successful if they default.  By suing the forum you will put them between a rock and a hard place.  

If you think this forum does not matter in the real word, think again.  The Chairman of the Bitcoin Foundation shot himself in the foot by posting here and Barry Silbert used it against him in court  Vessenes has not posted here since:

http://cointext.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/alydiancomplaint.pdf

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=306672.msg3289385#msg3289385

Forum posts have also been cited in a several other criminal and civil cases such as the Silk Road and pirateat40 prosecutions.
Actually the forum would be protected by Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act which basically says that a website with user submitted information (posts) is not considered to be the publisher of such information.

The person who actually posts information (posts a post) is liable (when liability is appropriate) for anything they publish (post).

Any lawyer will tell you that doesn't hold up in court, because it usually doesnt.

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October 08, 2014, 11:34:09 PM
 #62

This isn't the real world; it's an Internet forum and we go by the rules that have been set out before us.

That is ridiculous.

What I suggest is that people start suing the forum if they realize a loss due to some of the activities here.  

How it works is that you sue the whois privacy service (which is in Panama).  It is unlikely that company will provide a court defense over a service that costs a couple dollars a year.  Most likely they will either divulge the true registrant or simply default.  

If the true registrant is identified they will need to provide a defense and identify themselves or they will default.  If they identify themselves then you can start identifying the staff and calling them in for depositions.  If they default then you can probably get a court order to seize the domain from the .org registrar which is located in the USA.  If bicointalk.org were to default you really don't need that solid of a case, you just need a prima fascia case which will be successful if they default.  By suing the forum you will put them between a rock and a hard place.  

If you think this forum does not matter in the real word, think again.  The Chairman of the Bitcoin Foundation shot himself in the foot by posting here and Barry Silbert used it against him in court  Vessenes has not posted here since:

http://cointext.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/alydiancomplaint.pdf

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=306672.msg3289385#msg3289385

Forum posts have also been cited in a several other criminal and civil cases such as the Silk Road and pirateat40 prosecutions.
Actually the forum would be protected by Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act which basically says that a website with user submitted information (posts) is not considered to be the publisher of such information.

The person who actually posts information (posts a post) is liable (when liability is appropriate) for anything they publish (post).

That depends of the specific facts.  That immunity goes out the Window if the web site conspires with people who post or place the ads.  it also does not provide immunity from criminal liability.  Giving Trade Fortress specialized privileges to promote a fake bank covers both those issues.  You should read the link you posted so you understand what it means.  Some case decisions are posted there.  

As I have explained any defenses won't matter unless Mr. Marquardt (Theymos) shows up in court.
Theymos would need to be properly served in order for him to have to show up in court. Otherwise any judgement against him would not be enforceable, and  would be reversed.

If you were referring to TF posting in the VIP section then that is not something that only he was allowed to do. Anyone else is allowed to post in the VIP section provided they donate at least 50 BTC to the forum (that much was worth much less when TF donated and when most people were donating).

A case close to one regarding advertisements is Goddard v. Google, Inc.
Quote
Immunity upheld against claims of fraud and money laundering. Google was not responsible for misleading advertising created by third parties who bought space on Google's pages. The court found the creative pleading of money laundering did not cause the case to fall into the crime exception to Section 230 immunity.
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October 08, 2014, 11:35:10 PM
 #63

Actually the forum would be protected by Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act which basically says that a website with user submitted information (posts) is not considered to be the publisher of such information.

The person who actually posts information (posts a post) is liable (when liability is appropriate) for anything they publish (post).

Any lawyer will tell you that doesn't hold up in court, because it usually doesnt.
Why don't you give some examples of cases when this did not hold up in court?
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October 08, 2014, 11:42:54 PM
 #64

Actually the forum would be protected by Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act which basically says that a website with user submitted information (posts) is not considered to be the publisher of such information.

The person who actually posts information (posts a post) is liable (when liability is appropriate) for anything they publish (post).

Any lawyer will tell you that doesn't hold up in court, because it usually doesnt.
Why don't you give some examples of cases when this did not hold up in court?
it won't hold up for a second in court against a lawyer worth their salt, and lets face it, in these types of cases, the prosecuting attorney is always worth their salt.
You asked for proof, so here you go.

One of the most famous cases in internet history.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pirate_Bay_trial#.22King_Kong.22_defense

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October 08, 2014, 11:47:23 PM
 #65

Actually the forum would be protected by Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act which basically says that a website with user submitted information (posts) is not considered to be the publisher of such information.

The person who actually posts information (posts a post) is liable (when liability is appropriate) for anything they publish (post).

Any lawyer will tell you that doesn't hold up in court, because it usually doesnt.
Why don't you give some examples of cases when this did not hold up in court?
it won't hold up for a second in court against a lawyer worth their salt, and lets face it, in these types of cases, the prosecuting attorney is always worth their salt.
You asked for proof, so here you go.

One of the most famous cases in internet history.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pirate_Bay_trial#.22King_Kong.22_defense
Section 230 does not provide protection against a site breaking IP (intellectual property) law, which is what copyright law is.
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October 08, 2014, 11:51:18 PM
 #66

Actually the forum would be protected by Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act which basically says that a website with user submitted information (posts) is not considered to be the publisher of such information.

The person who actually posts information (posts a post) is liable (when liability is appropriate) for anything they publish (post).

Any lawyer will tell you that doesn't hold up in court, because it usually doesnt.
Why don't you give some examples of cases when this did not hold up in court?
it won't hold up for a second in court against a lawyer worth their salt, and lets face it, in these types of cases, the prosecuting attorney is always worth their salt.
You asked for proof, so here you go.

One of the most famous cases in internet history.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pirate_Bay_trial#.22King_Kong.22_defense
Section 230 does not provide protection against a site breaking IP (intellectual property) law, which is what copyright law is.

Section 230 doesn't matter. EU directive 2000/31/EC was over ruled in court already, setting a precendence for prosecuting cases in relation to anti-trust, such as a forum failing to remove objectionable content within a reasonable time frame. The defense may try to hide under 230, but there are any number of laws that can be used to sidestep that protection. study consumer fraud law, and realize that this forum is absolutely liable for its content. always has been, and always will be. The forum is used to facilitate monetary trades, and thus is open to more scrutiny.

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October 08, 2014, 11:53:30 PM
 #67

wow.  so many jr. members with such strong opinions on the matter.  this is not a democracy, it is a privately owned forum.  if you don't like how things are handled, leave and start your own.

thank you mods for your continued efforts to keep the forum somewhat under control
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October 08, 2014, 11:56:28 PM
 #68

wow.  so many jr. members with such strong opinions on the matter.  this is not a democracy, it is a privately owned forum.  if you don't like how things are handled, leave and start your own.

This should be stickied.   Smiley

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October 08, 2014, 11:59:55 PM
 #69

accounts will be sold whether its allowed or not.

i know one of global mods here in real life and he told me - they hardly ban anybody here, due to all the concept of freedom. thats also why they dont delete likely scams just show you red bar up.

if u want to not be scammed - not only loo kfor age of account but also how active it is + if it writes in similar sections all the time and in similar tone.

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October 09, 2014, 12:01:01 AM
 #70

Theymos would need to be properly served in order for him to have to show up in court. Otherwise any judgement against him would not be enforceable, and  would be reversed.

You would serve the domain owner WhoisGuard, Inc.

Domain Name:BITCOIN.ORG
Registrant Name:WhoisGuard Protected
Registrant Organization:WhoisGuard, Inc.
Registrant Street: P.O. Box 0823-03411
Registrant City:Panama
Registrant State/Province:Panama
Registrant Postal Code:00000
Registrant Country:PA
Registrant Phone:+507.8365503

In some cases an In Rem action can be filed where you sue the domain name.  Not sure if that is possible in this type of case.  In any case service is not that difficult.  If Theymos would need to be served at some point he has already provided enough info to find him via his Reddit AMA.


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October 09, 2014, 12:02:58 AM
 #71

wow.  so many jr. members with such strong opinions on the matter.  this is not a democracy, it is a privately owned forum.  if you don't like how things are handled, leave and start your own.

thank you mods for your continued efforts to keep the forum somewhat under control

What part of this forum is "under control"?

It is completely out of control.

Admittedly, that's one of the reasons I like it.

So, I'll just leave well enough alone.

I just don't think its right to trick users into thinking the rating system means anything.

Nor is it right to buy and sell accounts for the purpose of deceiving others. (and let's face it, that's the only purpose)

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October 09, 2014, 12:03:49 AM
 #72

Theymos would need to be properly served in order for him to have to show up in court. Otherwise any judgement against him would not be enforceable, and  would be reversed.

You would serve the domain owner WhoisGuard, Inc.

Domain Name:BITCOIN.ORG
Registrant Name:WhoisGuard Protected
Registrant Organization:WhoisGuard, Inc.
Registrant Street: P.O. Box 0823-03411
Registrant City:Panama
Registrant State/Province:Panama
Registrant Postal Code:00000
Registrant Country:PA
Registrant Phone:+507.8365503

In some cases an In Rem action can be filed where you sue the domain name.  Not sure if that is possible in this type of case.  In any case service is not that difficult.  If Theymos would need to be served at some point he has already provided enough info to find him via his Reddit AMA.


I am not very familiar with the laws regarding proper service as I have never had to try to avoid service like this. Regardless he would not need to personally appear in court unless he was compelled to testify, if he simply wanted to put on a defense he could have someone appear and speak on his behalf (an attorney/team of attorneys)
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October 09, 2014, 12:05:49 AM
 #73

wow.  so many jr. members with such strong opinions on the matter.  this is not a democracy, it is a privately owned forum.  if you don't like how things are handled, leave and start your own.

This should be stickied.   Smiley
Private ownership doesn't exclude you from legal liability :-)


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October 09, 2014, 12:07:20 AM
 #74

Theymos would need to be properly served in order for him to have to show up in court. Otherwise any judgement against him would not be enforceable, and  would be reversed.

You would serve the domain owner WhoisGuard, Inc.

Domain Name:BITCOIN.ORG
Registrant Name:WhoisGuard Protected
Registrant Organization:WhoisGuard, Inc.
Registrant Street: P.O. Box 0823-03411
Registrant City:Panama
Registrant State/Province:Panama
Registrant Postal Code:00000
Registrant Country:PA
Registrant Phone:+507.8365503

In some cases an In Rem action can be filed where you sue the domain name.  Not sure if that is possible in this type of case.  In any case service is not that difficult.  If Theymos would need to be served at some point he has already provided enough info to find him via his Reddit AMA.


I am not very familiar with the laws regarding proper service as I have never had to try to avoid service like this. Regardless he would not need to personally appear in court unless he was compelled to testify, if he simply wanted to put on a defense he could have someone appear and speak on his behalf (an attorney/team of attorneys)


I referenced the wrong domain but bitcointalk.org is registered to the same company.

Mr. Marquardt would be a witness and he would be subject to appear at depositions and court hearings where he would testify.

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October 09, 2014, 12:12:33 AM
 #75

Theymos would need to be properly served in order for him to have to show up in court. Otherwise any judgement against him would not be enforceable, and  would be reversed.

You would serve the domain owner WhoisGuard, Inc.

Domain Name:BITCOIN.ORG
Registrant Name:WhoisGuard Protected
Registrant Organization:WhoisGuard, Inc.
Registrant Street: P.O. Box 0823-03411
Registrant City:Panama
Registrant State/Province:Panama
Registrant Postal Code:00000
Registrant Country:PA
Registrant Phone:+507.8365503

In some cases an In Rem action can be filed where you sue the domain name.  Not sure if that is possible in this type of case.  In any case service is not that difficult.  If Theymos would need to be served at some point he has already provided enough info to find him via his Reddit AMA.


I am not very familiar with the laws regarding proper service as I have never had to try to avoid service like this. Regardless he would not need to personally appear in court unless he was compelled to testify, if he simply wanted to put on a defense he could have someone appear and speak on his behalf (an attorney/team of attorneys)


I referenced the wrong domain but bitcointalk.org is registered to the same company.

Mr. Marquardt would be a witness and he would be subject to appear at depositions and court hearings where he would testify.
Him potentially testifying has nothing to do with putting on a defense. There is also nothing that would prevent him from sending some other agent of the forum to testify they the agent has sufficient knowledge about the scope of the deposition. This is why the CEO of major companies do not testify when their companies are involved in lawsuits.

Also claiming section 230 protection would probably prevent the case from ever making it to trial in the event that immunity is upheld (if they have immunity then the facts of the case do not matter as they are not liable regardless of the facts)
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October 09, 2014, 12:30:29 AM
 #76

Theymos would need to be properly served in order for him to have to show up in court. Otherwise any judgement against him would not be enforceable, and  would be reversed.

You would serve the domain owner WhoisGuard, Inc.

Domain Name:BITCOIN.ORG
Registrant Name:WhoisGuard Protected
Registrant Organization:WhoisGuard, Inc.
Registrant Street: P.O. Box 0823-03411
Registrant City:Panama
Registrant State/Province:Panama
Registrant Postal Code:00000
Registrant Country:PA
Registrant Phone:+507.8365503

In some cases an In Rem action can be filed where you sue the domain name.  Not sure if that is possible in this type of case.  In any case service is not that difficult.  If Theymos would need to be served at some point he has already provided enough info to find him via his Reddit AMA.


I am not very familiar with the laws regarding proper service as I have never had to try to avoid service like this. Regardless he would not need to personally appear in court unless he was compelled to testify, if he simply wanted to put on a defense he could have someone appear and speak on his behalf (an attorney/team of attorneys)


I referenced the wrong domain but bitcointalk.org is registered to the same company.

Mr. Marquardt would be a witness and he would be subject to appear at depositions and court hearings where he would testify.
Him potentially testifying has nothing to do with putting on a defense. There is also nothing that would prevent him from sending some other agent of the forum to testify they the agent has sufficient knowledge about the scope of the deposition. This is why the CEO of major companies do not testify when their companies are involved in lawsuits.

Also claiming section 230 protection would probably prevent the case from ever making it to trial in the event that immunity is upheld (if they have immunity then the facts of the case do not matter as they are not liable regardless of the facts)

You don't have the slightest idea what you are talking about.  If Mr. Marquardt is directly involved in the activities in question then he has to testify.  This is not some large where you have thousands of employees doing all kinds of stuff.  In order for immunity to even be considered they have to identify themselves.  That means proving a registered business name, identify all the owners of the domain name, etc.  You don't get that part.  If they don't do that then they can't provide any defense.

It is interesting that if this thread involved some financial intuition I can imagine all the hooting and hollering how a financial institution shouldn't be allowed to do things like this ...  but since it is someone running a Bitcoin site everything is different and any complaint is a "conspiracy."

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October 09, 2014, 12:49:12 AM
 #77

wow.  so many jr. members with such strong opinions on the matter.  this is not a democracy, it is a privately owned forum.  if you don't like how things are handled, leave and start your own.

This should be stickied.   Smiley

right along with the screenshots of [you] admitting Blazr paid you to negative rep a certain poster's profile. feeling nostalgic?

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October 09, 2014, 01:00:20 AM
 #78

Based on the premise that started this thread I guess all of you are about to quietly disappear. lol

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October 09, 2014, 01:03:09 AM
 #79

Based on the premise that started this thread I guess all of you are about to quietly disappear. lol

And if we don't dissapear, it would certainly be enough evidence that the OP is wrong Cheesy Of course!

Take this post and run with it!

 Use it as an answer to all you problems!

 Grin

 Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

^that is what i think of your logic. notice the egregious eyerolling.

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October 09, 2014, 01:04:08 AM
 #80

wow.  so many jr. members with such strong opinions on the matter.  this is not a democracy, it is a privately owned forum.  if you don't like how things are handled, leave and start your own.

This should be stickied.   Smiley

right along with the screenshots of [you] admitting Blazr paid you to negative rep a certain poster's profile. feeling nostalgic?

Let's see the screenshots!

You've gone from simply wanting to buy trust to being an pathetic liar, haven't you?  I love the BS feedback you've left me and cool.  You'll fit in fine with the rest of the scammers here.   Wink

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