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Author Topic: Who Pays What?  (Read 35060 times)
RustyRyan
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August 15, 2012, 01:52:24 AM
 #121

After talking with Patrick we thought it could be beneficial to some members of the community if credit ratings (C/B/BB/BBB/A/AA/AAA) were briefly summarized.

The general meaning of credit rating opinions is summarized below:

Code:
Rating:         Description:
AAA             Extremely strong capacity to meet financial commitments. Highest Rating.
AA              Very strong capacity to meet financial commitments.
A               Strong capacity to meet financial commitments, but somewhat susceptible to adverse economic conditions and changes in circumstances.
BBB             Adequate capacity to meet financial commitments, but more subject to adverse economic conditions.
BB              Less vulnerable in the near-term but faces major ongoing uncertainties to adverse business, financial and economic conditions.
B               More vulnerable to adverse business, financial and economic conditions but currently has the capacity to meet financial commitments.
C               Currently highly vulnerable obligations and other defined circumstances.

Note: Ratings may be modified by the addition of a plus (+) or minus (-) sign to show relative standing within the major rating categories.

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unclescrooge
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August 15, 2012, 09:12:55 PM
 #122

What's with the first post? Why is it removed? Patrick?

PatrickHarnett
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August 15, 2012, 09:14:15 PM
 #123

What's with the first post? Why is it removed? Patrick?

A minor protest.
Willowbitcoin
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August 15, 2012, 10:32:56 PM
 #124

What are we protesting ?

unclescrooge
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August 15, 2012, 10:43:16 PM
 #125

What are we protesting ?

The accusations and insults shooting all over the place these days, I think...

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August 15, 2012, 11:27:40 PM
 #126

Ah, i could see how that would get under your skin. Patrick should know that success comes with its detractors.

You cant have a ying without a yang unfortunately.

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August 16, 2012, 04:49:00 AM
 #127

What's with the first post? Why is it removed? Patrick?

A minor protest.

Can you post some links for those of us who haven't seen any of that?

Please do not pm me, use ron@bitcoin.org.il instead
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Ocean6
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August 16, 2012, 04:12:15 PM
 #128

time for a new invite only forum... oh so glad its in the works...

Maybe not conducive to your desire for more investors...

Life is What you Make it!
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August 16, 2012, 06:25:27 PM
 #129

Well, if someone else wants to do this, now is your chance to get a sticky.

unclescrooge
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August 16, 2012, 08:34:51 PM
 #130

time for a new invite only forum... oh so glad its in the works...

Maybe not conducive to your desire for more investors...

I have no such desire unless you want to invest in the new forum  Grin

Wtf, a new forum?

dree12
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August 16, 2012, 08:40:21 PM
 #131

time for a new invite only forum... oh so glad its in the works...

Where do we sign up?  Smiley
Emphasis mine...
PatrickHarnett
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August 16, 2012, 08:50:05 PM
 #132

The bulk of the OP contents will be reinstated later today.  This has been a useful exercise demonstrating the bias of particular people against those actively working to improve the Bitcoin economy.

The OP will be restructured and include the following features:

  • Only those with business models that are apparent or have been disclosed will be listed.
  • To be listed, issuers will need to submit and agree to publication of their financial metrics (the credit rating system).



Brunic
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August 16, 2012, 08:54:29 PM
 #133

time for a new invite only forum... oh so glad its in the works...

Where do we sign up?  Smiley
Emphasis mine...

I know, I can still ask for an invite.
MoinCoin
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August 16, 2012, 09:45:00 PM
 #134

Thank you for your Service Patrick
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August 16, 2012, 09:48:52 PM
 #135

Thank you for your Service Patrick
This.

IveBeenBit
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August 16, 2012, 11:00:26 PM
 #136

The bulk of the OP contents will be reinstated later today.  This has been a useful exercise demonstrating the bias of particular people against those actively working to improve the Bitcoin economy.

The OP will be restructured and include the following features:

  • Only those with business models that are apparent or have been disclosed will be listed.
  • To be listed, issuers will need to submit and agree to publication of their financial metrics (the credit rating system).

Patrick - would you care to get into details about why you pulled the OP in the first place? You've been rather coy about your reasoning so far. For instance you at first said you removed it "in protest." In protest of WHAT exactly? I'm not getting your message, if you intended one.

That said, I think it's a great idea for us as depositors/lenders to demand more disclosure from those seeking to borrow such large sums of money. I welcome the changes you're implementing in the WPW listing and thank you for using the solid rep that you've earned to set a better example for the community.
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August 16, 2012, 11:32:54 PM
 #137

time for a new invite only forum... oh so gladamas its in the works...

So I get an invite?

A new invite-only forum (no troll attempt intended) would be useful for major Bitcoiners, but then no newbies could contribute without an invite. Sad

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August 17, 2012, 12:52:59 AM
 #138

time for a new invite only forum... oh so gladamas its in the works...

So I get an invite?

A new invite-only forum (no troll attempt intended) would be useful for major Bitcoiners, but then no newbies could contribute without an invite. Sad

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August 17, 2012, 04:59:02 AM
 #139

The bulk of the OP contents will be reinstated later today.  This has been a useful exercise demonstrating the bias of particular people against those actively working to improve the Bitcoin economy.

The OP will be restructured and include the following features:

  • Only those with business models that are apparent or have been disclosed will be listed.
  • To be listed, issuers will need to submit and agree to publication of their financial metrics (the credit rating system).
Awesome! Finally, some accountability.

PatrickHarnett
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August 17, 2012, 05:56:19 AM
 #140

The bulk of the OP contents will be reinstated later today.  This has been a useful exercise demonstrating the bias of particular people against those actively working to improve the Bitcoin economy.

The OP will be restructured and include the following features:

  • Only those with business models that are apparent or have been disclosed will be listed.
  • To be listed, issuers will need to submit and agree to publication of their financial metrics (the credit rating system).

Patrick - would you care to get into details about why you pulled the OP in the first place? You've been rather coy about your reasoning so far. For instance you at first said you removed it "in protest." In protest of WHAT exactly? I'm not getting your message, if you intended one.

That said, I think it's a great idea for us as depositors/lenders to demand more disclosure from those seeking to borrow such large sums of money. I welcome the changes you're implementing in the WPW listing and thank you for using the solid rep that you've earned to set a better example for the community.

Basically there are some people that put a huge amount of effort into bitcoin.  The WPW thread and the work that goes on behind the scenes is one of those, and the tide of people accusing everyone in the lending scene is to a significant detriment to the forum and bitcoin as a whole.  The Starfish deposits system is around break-even and probably gets subsidised from the dividends and mining I do, but I consider it important to have space open for people wanting to park a few coins with low risk.  As for my own situation, personally, the idea of running away with $1M is silly - it's really not enough and I have other objectives.  (I think I'm close to that in my local currency, whatever 60k coins is - and I am well past the point where I have recovered all of my seed money).

I have noticed there are some accounts where the sole purpose is to cry "ponzi" and scam for months and sometime years on end (ages before Micon joined the party late).  This week I have been accused of being a scammer, "shit", a criminal and someone that deserved to be put in jail.  I get off lightly, but others are labelled shills, pirate prostitutes and many other things without proof.  (I still have the pm where I was offered 100BTC for a referral that I turned down.)

Maged, the moderator for this part of the forum, might be justifiably concerned about the impact of BS&T but has landed quite heavily on one side of the debate and this comes through in the treatment of those working to provide a range of services.  I have previously pointed out some basic ID details for him, and others late to the witch-hunt (and I am reminded on Joel's beautiful comment yesterday that is pure "group think" - "don't think outside the box") have not bothered to do their basic homework.  I was, however, pleased to note a quite rational post from Micon so obviously he is learning some stuff about bitcoin along the way.

There are some schemes where I have inside knowledge, provided on a confidential basis.  I also hold information on many users, also provided confidentially.  Myself, if you don't know who I am down the the colour of my house/car/cat you're not even trying (actually the cat could be tricky).  I am not going to "spill the beans", as my approach is more subtle.  That includes BS&T as I know (and have had confirmed) the mechanics that allow such fantastic returns and could implement it on a smaller scale, but there are actually better returns if you know how. 

Months ago I signalled to several people that the interest rates in this economy would fall.  Pirate has done exactly what many other have done and has begun his process, but he's certainly not the first to do that.  They will fall further, as will the rates Starfish and all other legitimate providers.  Bitcoin is a great example of an accelerated economic history, and a great textbook example to learn from.  As such, it is quite interesting working within an economics consultancy where I can discuss the evolving concepts in months rather than years/decades.  As such, I'll have a lot more work to do on this thread over the next year.

So for the detractors: I hope you do not get your wish in killing bitcoin, and I am pleased to provide and protect the intent behind PPT.x and a range of other things you consider criminal.
For the hundreds of people I deal with: I have two weeks away from my day job to work on my website, otherwise, you know how to contact me.
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