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[PatrickHarnett]

New rates for BS&T have been announced and are expected to take effect in about a week.  This changes the profitability of PPT.x and PPT.DIV as the contract requires a full payment in the event of an interest rate drop.  Initial calculations suggest the change will cut the dividends as follows:

PPT.D   0BTC
PPT.E   43BTC
PPT.A   119BTC
PPT.B   193BTC

These numbers are approximate.

The next issue (PPT.C) will be at a new strike price to maintain a fair balance between the partially insured nature of the bonds and the new 5% underlying BS&T rate.

Those will be payed in reverse order, correct? IE next Monday will pay 0.0214 per share, the week after will be 0.0132, then 0.0047 and 0.
Do you know what the new rates are and will the new strike price return normal dividends to the 0.025-0.03 range?

The above numbers are an indication of the reduction in dividend from the calculated ones done at time of sale.  So the next dividend will still be 246BTC in total.  The one after 255-43 = 212BTC and so on.  The PPT.B's that are most affected will be around 256-193=63BTC.

Learning of the change this morning the priority was to get some information out to people, and yes getting the right level for the balance between premium/insurance/dividend and demand for product all goes into that mix.

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[PatrickHarnett]

I have been giving this quite some thought and want to provide an opportunity for feedback before implementation.

With the recent changes (in July and now in August), it is a good opportunity to reset the PPT.x offerings back to their original formula.  That is, issue at 1.00 and return four times the top BS&T interest rate of 5%, so repaying 1.20.

I believe this is most consistent with the original offering and changing the floor price from 1.04 to some other number to balance the needs of investors and dividend right holders is guaranteed to get the balance wrong.

[odolvlobo]

I have been giving this quite some thought and want to provide an opportunity for feedback before implementation.

With the recent changes (in July and now in August), it is a good opportunity to reset the PPT.x offerings back to their original formula.  That is, issue at 1.00 and return four times the top BS&T interest rate of 5%, so repaying 1.20.

I believe this is most consistent with the original offering and changing the floor price from 1.04 to some other number to balance the needs of investors and dividend right holders is guaranteed to get the balance wrong.

I think that a selling price of 1.00 is best. Just sell them for 1.00 and buy them for 1.16 (or something like that). It's simple and straightforward. You are competing with the other pirate bonds, so it is important for investors to be able to easily compare your rates to the other bonds. I don't think investors care what the BS&T rate is as long as your rate is competitive.

[jbreher]

I hold a little .DIV, and I typically am holding a little of each of the active [.A .B .C .D .E] at any given time.

I think your plan of having them mature at 1.20 BTC makes the most sense to me. As it is tied to the public BS&T interest rate, it is easy to grasp.

I have seen the arguments about how the eventual redemption should be pegged to some mystical 1.00, as that is how things are done 'in the real world'. I really don't give a bilge rat's nethers for how things are supposed to be done, as per the models built for exchanges dealing in fiat.

Accordingly, I think I like the model that has been adopted, where bonds open at a nominal 1.00 face value, and are redeemed for 1 + daily interest * 28. But my argument amounts essentially to nothing more than 'it is what has been our mode of operation'.

I guess the counterargument would be that redemption at 1.00 might lead to a more profitable IPO. I suppose it could, but I would think this would be a wash.

As far as the initial sale price, the greedy .DIV owner in me would like to see what little profit we have maintained. If all bonds sold at 1.00 (or 0.83333), and redeemed at 1.20 (or 1.00), there ain't any (.DIV profit, that is). Indeed, after overheads, would we not be running at a loss? Issues have been selling out, albeit slowly, correct? I certainly don't want to be subsidizing the operation. We need a floor somewhere. I would think you would like a minimum offer price that ensures you are compensated for your time and effort in running the operation.

As far as the 1.16 comment, I don't know what to think about that...

[PatrickHarnett]

Thank you for the views expressed - 1.00 and 1.20 seem to be the preferred numbers (and makes things clear).

I will hold off another day before confirming.

[PatrickHarnett]

I am aiming to provide as much information as soon as practical as there are obviously people with a strong interest in this (not the least myself as I hold around 1/3 of the PPT.DIV shares).

I have 246.6BTC reserved for the dividend on Monday and I believe that should still get paid as the current buy-back will be occurring at UTC00:00 as planned.

Beyond that, the drop in interest rate to zero is going to severely hinder profits.  My initial calculation is that there will be one more dividend totalling approximately 90BTC.

After that - kaput.

[jbreher]

After that - kaput.

Aye aye - it seems as if we shall be sunk to the bottom, to sail the friendly seas no more.

As a starfish, you may have some coping mechanisms. As a land-dweller, I might be able to use a few tips in sea-floor survival.

edit: spelling

[PatrickHarnett]

After that - kaput.

Aye aye - it seems as if we shall be sunk to the bottom, to sail the friendly seas no more.

As a starfish, you may have some coping mechanisms. As a land-dweller, I might be able to use a few tips in sea-floor survival.

edit: spelling

While my on-paper position halved this weekend, it's still not terrible.  win some/lose some 

Yesterday while doing some nothing I was thinking about PPT.x and the DIV shares (and I have 246BTC reserved to do tomorrow's payment) and was thinking that it might be able to be "repurposed".  After all, the assets cost 8 coins each to put in place.  What I need to work out is how/what would fit into the current structure.  This is just an idle idea at the moment so please don't read anything into it.

[jbreher]

it's still not terrible.  win some/lose some 

My thoughts exactly. The risks were clearly spelled out. I knew this would be a possible outcome. I have a good attitude about it

... and was thinking that it might be able to be "repurposed". 

If so, that would be great.

[PatrickHarnett]

PPT.DIV distributed a short while ago.

[locust]

Do you have any plans for the future, or "kaput"?

[PatrickHarnett]

There will be a small dividend next week.  After that, the plan is uncertain.

[filharvey]

I personally think now, after purchasing the ppt.div shares and luckily selling them without too much of a loss, these shares were designed so that the some of the original members off ppt could make silly money easily.

Basically when initially sold, some of these shares we're being sold for 1.4+ btc this allowed the original members to make money, on the prospect of future dividends. Yes it looked rosy, hence why I owned quite a few for a while. But with the fact that these share were not protected by the initial investment into ppt means that they needed several years to break even.

I do feel sorry for Patrick, as he has helped keep up the price of ppt.div and probably owns a lot more than he should. But some of the members of the original group, made some silly money on these shares. The fact that these shares never really had any chance to make back money is crazy.

Even if they were backed by the value of ppt coins invested by the original partners they should not have been selling for more than what 0.45 or maybe more?

Phil

[PatrickHarnett]

I personally think now, after purchasing the ppt.div shares and luckily selling them without too much of a loss, these shares were designed so that the some of the original members off ppt could make silly money easily.

Basically when initially sold, some of these shares we're being sold for 1.4+ btc this allowed the original members to make money, on the prospect of future dividends. Yes it looked rosy, hence why I owned quite a few for a while. But with the fact that these share were not protected by the initial investment into ppt means that they needed several years to break even.

I do feel sorry for Patrick, as he has helped keep up the price of ppt.div and probably owns a lot more than he should. But some of the members of the original group, made some silly money on these shares. The fact that these shares never really had any chance to make back money is crazy.

Even if they were backed by the value of ppt coins invested by the original partners they should not have been selling for more than what 0.45 or maybe more?

Phil

Going back some months I actually thought a reasonable value was 1.0 and higher but it was not appropriate to say so.  I did sell some, but I was also buying - simple trading unrelated to the underlying, just the value of the dividend stream.  But with the proliferation of the other PPT schemes, the dividend fell to 0.02 and that made the payback much longer.

Also remember, there was some silly money being offered and we had several requests from people wanting to be within the original group.

Anyway, don't feel too badly for me, there were some pluses and minuses and while I'm probably down overall (and still have a 4000BTC contingent liability on this) it's part of the market.  And I still have my 3,791 DIV shares.

Patrick

[Bitcoin Oz]

I personally think now, after purchasing the ppt.div shares and luckily selling them without too much of a loss, these shares were designed so that the some of the original members off ppt could make silly money easily.

Basically when initially sold, some of these shares we're being sold for 1.4+ btc this allowed the original members to make money, on the prospect of future dividends. Yes it looked rosy, hence why I owned quite a few for a while. But with the fact that these share were not protected by the initial investment into ppt means that they needed several years to break even.

I do feel sorry for Patrick, as he has helped keep up the price of ppt.div and probably owns a lot more than he should. But some of the members of the original group, made some silly money on these shares. The fact that these shares never really had any chance to make back money is crazy.

Even if they were backed by the value of ppt coins invested by the original partners they should not have been selling for more than what 0.45 or maybe more?

Phil

Going back some months I actually thought a reasonable value was 1.0 and higher but it was not appropriate to say so.  I did sell some, but I was also buying - simple trading unrelated to the underlying, just the value of the dividend stream.  But with the proliferation of the other PPT schemes, the dividend fell to 0.02 and that made the payback much longer.

Also remember, there was some silly money being offered and we had several requests from people wanting to be within the original group.

Anyway, don't feel too badly for me, there were some pluses and minuses and while I'm probably down overall (and still have a 4000BTC contingent liability on this) it's part of the market.  And I still have my 3,791 DIV shares.

Patrick

If you can figure out pirates business model and implement it even on a smaller scale you could rename these bonds to Patrick's Pass Through since it already has the right initials 

[btharper]

I personally think now, after purchasing the ppt.div shares and luckily selling them without too much of a loss, these shares were designed so that the some of the original members off ppt could make silly money easily.

Basically when initially sold, some of these shares we're being sold for 1.4+ btc this allowed the original members to make money, on the prospect of future dividends. Yes it looked rosy, hence why I owned quite a few for a while. But with the fact that these share were not protected by the initial investment into ppt means that they needed several years to break even.

I do feel sorry for Patrick, as he has helped keep up the price of ppt.div and probably owns a lot more than he should. But some of the members of the original group, made some silly money on these shares. The fact that these shares never really had any chance to make back money is crazy.

Even if they were backed by the value of ppt coins invested by the original partners they should not have been selling for more than what 0.45 or maybe more?

Phil

Going back some months I actually thought a reasonable value was 1.0 and higher but it was not appropriate to say so.  I did sell some, but I was also buying - simple trading unrelated to the underlying, just the value of the dividend stream.  But with the proliferation of the other PPT schemes, the dividend fell to 0.02 and that made the payback much longer.

Also remember, there was some silly money being offered and we had several requests from people wanting to be within the original group.

Anyway, don't feel too badly for me, there were some pluses and minuses and while I'm probably down overall (and still have a 4000BTC contingent liability on this) it's part of the market.  And I still have my 3,791 DIV shares.

Patrick

If you can figure out pirates business model and implement it even on a smaller scale you could rename these bonds to Patrick's Pass Through since it already has the right initials 

I'm sure anything you want to do with these would be a great use once all the pirate stuff finishes out. I'm sure there's certainly people willing to throw money at Patrick for just about anything he wanted to do. Not to mention you already have almost $500USD sunk into security names alone (Although I assume Patrick wasn't paying all of that out himself). Any interests in running anything specific Patrick?

[PatrickHarnett]

I was thinking about PPT again today while working on something else (related).

Currently there are some bids (bid walls) up for the three outstanding bonds as part of the insurance underwritten by myself.  It occurred to me that, for those people that exercise the insurance option, that reduces the total liabilities of the PPT system and IF (rather than when - I don't know) Pirate releases funds, that will be PPT profits.

At the moment approximately 200 of each of E, A and B have been redeemed.  The implied value per share is roughly  600 * (1.28 - 0.32) / 9000 * P(BS&T repaid) = ??

I had originally assumed that if I paid out the insurance and received the coins back from the BS&T account, I would get to keep it, but under the contract that is wrong - it would get divided up amongst the PPT.DIV holders.

I provide this as information as I believe the market has a right to know and understand (or determine for itself) if this has value.

(Disclaimer: I have a material interest via my own PPT.DIV holdings, but I am choosing not to trade any PPT series assets.)