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PatrickHarnett
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May 17, 2012, 12:27:54 AM
 #21

So is it possible to buy PPT at 110 or 120? I would prefer to buy those if possible?

If you could, you would find there are few benefits.  They provide no dividend, and lock up the coins in the insurance fund.
(They also have terrible liquidity - it is why we did the DIV shares.)
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filharvey
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May 17, 2012, 12:44:02 AM
 #22

Well there's the benefit of having 250 of the .div shares. I wold be interested in holding on to that and not sell. Just reaping the dividend.

Also it boosts the number of bonds they can issue.

So if u are interested in a partner 7 who is not interested in selling the .div shares, let me know. I will certainly buy in
PatrickHarnett
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May 20, 2012, 09:02:44 PM
 #23

There have been a few sales of PPT.DIV shares since they have been available to trade, and with the first bond redemption (PPT.A), the first dividend is scheduled for tomorrow at a modest 0.0159.
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May 21, 2012, 07:46:18 PM
 #24

I cant believe these are selling at 1.4-1.5. That will basically mean the return is 1% a week.
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May 21, 2012, 07:59:15 PM
 #25

I cant believe these are selling at 1.4-1.5. That will basically mean the return is 1% a week.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_fool_theory Wink

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PatrickHarnett
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May 21, 2012, 08:32:08 PM
 #26

I cant believe these are selling at 1.4-1.5. That will basically mean the return is 1% a week.

Actually, the first dividend that has gone out gives that 1% return for that week.  If you look at the future dividends you will see that they are higher.  By your reasoning the return will be 2% for the next two weeks and then closer to 3% when PPT.D dividends are paid in three weeks time.  Apart from the following week where it will be higher again, with a 1.5BTC price, it looks like 3% to 4% per week return.
Bitsinmyhead
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May 27, 2012, 12:23:58 PM
 #27

Anyone who owns PPT.DIV interested in lending them to me? I will pay you 10% higher dividend than PPT.DIV pays while I am borrowing it from you. Looking for 50 shares, and to borrow for at least 4 weeks.

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dollartrader
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May 27, 2012, 01:19:58 PM
 #28

PM Sent

Anyone who owns PPT.DIV interested in lending them to me? I will pay you 10% higher dividend than PPT.DIV pays while I am borrowing it from you. Looking for 50 shares, and to borrow for at least 4 weeks.
Bitsinmyhead
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May 27, 2012, 03:01:57 PM
 #29

I have borrowed 50 shares from dollartrader to be returned Sunday 24th of June. I will pay him all dividends + 10%.

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brendio
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May 27, 2012, 03:14:07 PM
 #30

I have borrowed 50 shares from dollartrader to be returned Sunday 24th of June. I will pay him all dividends + 10%.
I had the idea to try to do a similar thing back when they were selling for 1.5 BTC.

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May 27, 2012, 03:19:45 PM
 #31

I have borrowed 50 shares from dollartrader to be returned Sunday 24th of June. I will pay him all dividends + 10%.
I had the idea to try to do a similar thing back when they were selling for 1.5 BTC.

Maybe stupid question but what do you gain with that?

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brendio
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May 27, 2012, 03:31:43 PM
 #32

I have borrowed 50 shares from dollartrader to be returned Sunday 24th of June. I will pay him all dividends + 10%.
I had the idea to try to do a similar thing back when they were selling for 1.5 BTC.

Maybe stupid question but what do you gain with that?
The ability to short sell it and offer those wanting to buy it better prices than they would otherwise get. Wink

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May 27, 2012, 05:09:01 PM
 #33

I have borrowed 50 shares from dollartrader to be returned Sunday 24th of June. I will pay him all dividends + 10%.
I had the idea to try to do a similar thing back when they were selling for 1.5 BTC.

Maybe stupid question but what do you gain with that?
The ability to short sell it and offer those wanting to buy it better prices than they would otherwise get. Wink

Thanks little bit overpriced right now so maybe even a good idea  Wink

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MrTeal
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May 30, 2012, 04:01:05 AM
 #34

I have plenty fo PPT.DIV shares if anyone else is interested in shorting them.

What sort of terms would you want for borrowing some shares of PPT.DIV, say 300?
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May 30, 2012, 02:46:20 PM
 #35

I have plenty fo PPT.DIV shares if anyone else is interested in shorting them.

What sort of terms would you want for borrowing some shares of PPT.DIV, say 300?

I was thinking something along these lines:

I have borrowed 50 shares from dollartrader to be returned Sunday 24th of June. I will pay him all dividends + 10%.

But, what do you propose to solve the trust issue?  Maybe some sort of escrow?

I lend you the shares, you sell them, the BTC is put in escrow, you pay the dividends each week + 10% at the end of the option period you buy back the shares with the escrowed funds.  If you guessed correctly then you will have extra funds in escrow.  If you guessed wrong then you would have to pony up additional funds in order to repuchase the shares. (?)
I'm happy to go escrow, and may even borrow some shares myself.

BTW, wouldn't the escrow need to be the one that sells the shares, because from the time you transfer them you need to trust the counterparty. Otherwise they could sell but never deliver the funds to the escrow agent.

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May 30, 2012, 04:53:03 PM
 #36

I would accept Brendio as an escrow agent for anyone who wants to short PPT.DIV and, yes, it would make sense to have him sell the shares.  You could just give him the price you would accept for the shares and he would sell them for you.

Since the shares would be in Brendio's account he would get the dividends paid to him so all the person shorting the shares would need to do is send Brendio the 10% additional amount and Brendio could then forward the dividends+10% directly to me.

TBH putting the funds in escrow would be a pretty large impediment, as it would keep me from using the funds to generate income in order to offset the dividends while the bonds are being borrowed. If we could work out something else to counteract the trust issue, PM me or let me know here. Would dividends to be paid on Tuesday at 2pm UTC work?
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May 31, 2012, 10:10:33 AM
 #37

Sorry if I missed this, but how do you estimate income (profit) from PPT.x bonds?

I can't get the numbers you have stated in this thread, for example let's take the first issue of PPT.A bond:

Number of bonds issued 1500, total income from this sale 1608.81947502 (average price was 1608.81947502/1500=1.07254631668)

Then estimated profit has to be (1608.81947502-1500)*1.28=139.2889280256, or if you take compounding interest rate for 27 days and 22 hours then profit becomes 184.1682183.

So I don't get the value as you stated 142.89848614  Huh

Edit: Also You sold PPT.C for higher average price than PPT.B, but estimated income was lower for PPT.C.

We cannot solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them.
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May 31, 2012, 04:43:04 PM
 #38

There are expenses and sometimes amounts that need to be stored in the insurance fund that week in order to "top it off" to the proper value. 

There are fees associated with creating each asset, there are GLBSE fees associated with each sale, there were fees associated with the sale of the PPT stock for the insurance fund, etc.  All of these expenses were paid from income as they happened.

In order to maximize the dividends we do deposit all proceeds (minus expenses and earnings that need to be retained in the insurance fund for that week) and we do compound the interest.

The dividends are the exact net income taking all this into account.  I call them "estimated" since I may make a mistake I have to correct later and the dividend payout system introduces rounding error of its own.

So far I have been pretty darn close.  For example for the first two dividends the numbers were:

Code:
PPT.A  Estimated Dividend Published   142.89848614   0.01587761
       Actual Dividend Paid           142.89840000   0.01587760
PPT.B  Estimated Dividend Published   260.34919275   0.02892769
       Actual Dividend Paid           260.34921000   0.02892769

The dividend should normally end up being somewhere between the two numbers you calculated.




Thanks for such an extensive explanation  Wink
 
But unfortunately Your explanation means that investors cannot forecast dividends, paid for holding PPT.DIV bond, until You publish them here, they are only able to do some approximations Undecided

No complains at all, just doing due diligence  Cool

We cannot solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them.
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May 31, 2012, 07:22:28 PM
 #39

There is no way of knowing how much people are going to bid each week.  We are able to give you very accurate estimates for the next four weeks - where else do you get that much information?

Like I said, I am not complaining at all Wink

Usually, in order to gain competitive advantage, investors wish to know maximum amount of information available and/or predictable.

In our case:
To make a "good deal" on PPT.DIV one would like to estimate (approximate) dividends on PPT.A (bidding info is already published) and after tomorrow's sale of PPT.B, quickly estimate future dividends on it and adjust correct price of PPT.DIV, while other market participants still await for public information about dividends in this thread  Wink

And a small question, when you estimate income of PPT.x bond, do you use compounding interest rate of 27 days 22hours?

We cannot solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them.
PatrickHarnett
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June 02, 2012, 12:54:18 AM
 #40

Hmm, someone was selling and I've picked up almost 500 PPT.DIV shares at an average of 1.02-ish.  With dividends delivering 4-5%/week returns someone obviously wanted out.
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