Abandon BTC

[Apraksin]

Next year this time the altcoin-section will probably be swimming in generation 3.0 cryptos claiming some superior feature, mostly backed by speculators and scammers, and bitcoin will still be here racing towards new ATH.

Think I'll hold on to my BTC

[Equate]

Abandoning BTC for other cryptos ? That's new type of FUD . All the altcoins get dragged down whenever BTC price falls and very few of them even recover . Still good effort to sell your failed coins.

[inca]

Abandoning BTC for other cryptos ? That's new type of FUD . All the altcoins get dragged down whenever BTC price falls and very few of them even recover . Still good effort to sell your failed coins.

Yes. Bitcoin will likely integrate very slowly and carefully any truly superior features from alts anyway.

Bitcoin is still very early in terms of user adoption. The bears like to criticise bitcoin because user adoption has lagged slightly behind the enormous progress it has made in terms of merchant integration and VC infrastructure funding of nearly 500 billion dollars. They cite this as a failure and this guy is suggesting buying alts with no real world uses or end users. I say just watch the btc price as adoption catches up, this time with easy on ramps. The next bull run is going to be epic.

[Equate]

Abandoning BTC for other cryptos ? That's new type of FUD . All the altcoins get dragged down whenever BTC price falls and very few of them even recover . Still good effort to sell your failed coins.

Yes. Bitcoin will likely integrate very slowly and carefully any truly superior features from alts anyway.

Bitcoin is still very early in terms of user adoption. The bears like to criticise bitcoin because user adoption has lagged slightly behind the enormous progress it has made in terms of merchant integration and VC infrastructure funding of nearly 500 billion dollars. They cite this as a failure and this guy is suggesting buying alts with no real world uses or end users. I say just watch the btc price as adoption catches up, this time with easy on ramps. The next bull run is going to be epic.

True , and Bitcoin is the center of cryptocurrencies ... Any altcoin cannot survive on its own but still there is space for altcoins to co-exist alongwith Bitcoin.

[piyany]

You still have time to abandon BTC and put your wealth on more advanced cryptos. The waves are getting weaker and weaker while the market is slowly eating itself.

Adding new wealth to the bitcoin ecosystem, rewards miners for wasting energy without giving anything useful to the network. It's no secret that adding more wealth to the bitcoin ecosystem, only fuels this idiotic arms race of bitcoin mining.
Bitcoin is strongly impractical because of it's immature use of resources and it's inability to support stability. You have to be religious about bitcoin while the world of finance is a new place to you, if you can't see the importance of these impracticalities.
The Winklevoss twins may be great rowers, and Draper may be a good friend to Jurvetson, but their judgement about bitcoin is childish at best.

The future is not in bitcoin, but in the general idea of open sourced monetary systems. There needs to be a lot more advancements before cryptocurrencies would be practical on a larger scale. The current phase of development is in it's end. Right now would be the right time to jump off this train and jump onto something newer and better, that has solved some problems that plague bitcoin.
Don't ask me on what crypto to buy, because I don't want this thread to become a trollfest. Do your own research while keeping the flaws of bitcoin in mind.

Don't get caught on a sinking ship, just because you're emotionally attached to your investment. It's a common flaw for novice investors to become emotionally attached to the source of their first winnings.

If you reply to this thread, then I would kindly ask you to express yourself in a calm and constructive manner. Thank you!

Very true. Also novice investors have no clue about the markets, they are not traders. You actually need many months playing markets to get the hang of it.

On the other hand the best lessons in life are painful.

So who is taking another loan to save bitcoin and get more cheap coins? 

[NotLambchop]

... the enormous progress it has made in terms of merchant integration and VC infrastructure funding of nearly 500 billion dollars. ...

>market cap ~ $5 billion.
>VC infrastructure funding of nearly 500 billion dollars.

Stop huffing Mop & Glo.

[piramida]

So who is taking another loan to save bitcoin and get more cheap coins? 

loans? whats that? ah, it's something you altcoin users have to fall back to to survive, interesting.

[raid_n]

You talk as bitcoin had been in place for decades. Most of the new and better cryptos are still in the process of establishing themselves. Some of them are only now coming out of the initial phase and are starting to have value that isn't dependent on bitcoin. This is the indicator that the crypto market is changing shape from a pyramid to a cluster. Bitcoin won't be at the top of the pyramid any longer, because it's only strength is the faith of the old adopters. And there aren't enough of these old adopters and the large majority of them aren't competent enough to push through this "U BUY COIN, ME GET RICH!!1" scheme.

So if I understand you correctly, you are telling people to invest in altcoins (probably with more or less specific recommendations based on coins you own).
Where is that any different at all from bitcoin early adopters?

Do you want me to buy into the nxt early adopters or ripple "cryptocurrency" ? Whats your perspective on alts forked from other innovative alts purely for more fairness with distribution?

All you want is a different wealth distribution with yourself at the top. It is not about wasting energy or being more fair.
It is only about you personally gaining because you find it unfair that others were lucky.

Well here is my answer to you. At least do something useful.
I don't agree with the goals and intentions of ethereum but from what I gather Vitalik was also complaining about lucky early adopters.
He at least is doing something more useful than you complaining on a speculation sub-forum about bitcoin

[inca]

You still have time to abandon BTC and put your wealth on more advanced cryptos. The waves are getting weaker and weaker while the market is slowly eating itself.

Adding new wealth to the bitcoin ecosystem, rewards miners for wasting energy without giving anything useful to the network. It's no secret that adding more wealth to the bitcoin ecosystem, only fuels this idiotic arms race of bitcoin mining.
Bitcoin is strongly impractical because of it's immature use of resources and it's inability to support stability. You have to be religious about bitcoin while the world of finance is a new place to you, if you can't see the importance of these impracticalities.
The Winklevoss twins may be great rowers, and Draper may be a good friend to Jurvetson, but their judgement about bitcoin is childish at best.

The future is not in bitcoin, but in the general idea of open sourced monetary systems. There needs to be a lot more advancements before cryptocurrencies would be practical on a larger scale. The current phase of development is in it's end. Right now would be the right time to jump off this train and jump onto something newer and better, that has solved some problems that plague bitcoin.
Don't ask me on what crypto to buy, because I don't want this thread to become a trollfest. Do your own research while keeping the flaws of bitcoin in mind.

Don't get caught on a sinking ship, just because you're emotionally attached to your investment. It's a common flaw for novice investors to become emotionally attached to the source of their first winnings.

If you reply to this thread, then I would kindly ask you to express yourself in a calm and constructive manner. Thank you!

Very true. Also novice investors have no clue about the markets, they are not traders. You actually need many months playing markets to get the hang of it.

On the other hand the best lessons in life are painful.

So who is taking another loan to save bitcoin and get more cheap coins? 

Someone tell PayPal or the fools who just invested 30million into blockchain.info. Or the half a billion dollars of VC investment into bitcoin business in the last year.

Noone is in their right mind would take a loan out for speculative btc purposes. Sadly MP is advising people to sell btc which actually has value, utility and can be exchanged for fiat currency easily. He is proposing buying altcoins which can in the main only be exchanged for..you guessed it..bitcoin and are just a lottery ticket, based on the predication of the failure of the very asset they are priced in.

I suggest anyone actually ruminating his words simply reviews his previous posts, then all will become clear.

[piramida]

I suggest anyone actually ruminating his words simply reviews his previous posts, then all will become clear.

Yeah I know he's an ancient bear, but he, at least, can project his bitcoin hate in a readable and logical manner. Which is fine by me, I welcome any opinion if some brain cells were involved in forming it

[inca]

I suggest anyone actually ruminating his words simply reviews his previous posts, then all will become clear.

Yeah I know he's an ancient bear, but he, at least, can project his bitcoin hate in a readable and logical manner. Which is fine by me, I welcome any opinion if some brain cells were involved in forming it

True. I suppose it is a refreshing change to falllling and the clone wars. He must be getting tired of being wrong.

[windjc]

I suggest anyone actually ruminating his words simply reviews his previous posts, then all will become clear.

Yeah I know he's an ancient bear, but he, at least, can project his bitcoin hate in a readable and logical manner. Which is fine by me, I welcome any opinion if some brain cells were involved in forming it

Mervin is as 1 note as fallling. He just tries to mask it in pseudo logic.   He constantly gets debunked, but never acknowledges intelligent relies. Just like fallling. Actually from time to time fallling acknowledges intelligent replies. Mervin is less prolific, so it makes him less of an annoyance.

[arieq]

Bitcoin is the money of the internet, it will rise like crazy if it becomes widely adopted, think about it, there a lot of bitcoin believers, remember?

I think by this time next year, BTC will have reached new ATH. Gaping will come in 3 years.

[nuff]

OP, I fully understand where you're coming from, what with bitcoin being extremely environmentally wasteful, but that may be necessary to give it a base value, if nothing else. You need something like a production cost assigned to it, so there can be a reference to its fundamental value. With PoW mining , while primitive, it at least has a direct way to assign a production cost to it: electricity.

But however better cryptocurrency can be improved, it's not that there aren't alt coins that have better solutions and better technology than bitcoin, yet they still don't and can't overtake much less replace bitcoin. There's also the adoption and infrastructure, which is what really gives bitcoin its value. Bitcoin's first mover advantage really can't be simply overlooked or dismissed. The solution is not to create another alternate coin, but to just fully concentrate on Bitcoin and how to evolve it to be something better.

It's foolish if costs are being driven up by a method that has no gain. For instance, if Volkswagens would be made in a way that they are disassembled and reassembled 10 times before they come out, then it sure would drive up the production costs together with the price. It would also give people more work for doing it. But will it improve the quality of the product or improve anything at all? No.
In the future, the use of money should be cheap, without any artificially added costs. Currently is the time where the banking sector is using it's dominance to artificially add costs to their offered services. I believe that the future will be better, not worse, like it would be with bitcoin.

The fundamental properties of bitcoin, like PoW mining and fixed coin supply can't be changed because of the trust issues that would arise. That is the reason why the developers aren't considering touching these parts. They know that trust would be lost if fundamental rules would be changed. So, the only option is to move wealth to new cryptos that are already built on more advanced fundamental properties.

That isn't the same as bitcoin mining, your Volkswagen analogy. That's doing for the sake of doing things repeatedly, and that is indeed stupid and inefficient. While for the mining of bitcoin using cryptography,  the millions and millions of hashes are required to find the right hash function to solve a block to be able to give out bitcoins. Brute-forcing is the only way to go, as long as cryptocurrencies are based on, duh, cryptography.

The trust issues regarding the fundamentals of bitcoin, to me, is not as sacred as you implied that if developers change Bitcoin's fundamentals all trust would be lost. If people have trust in it, people would just accept it. Take the hard fork of March 2013. Majority of miners agreed to the fork and the problem was solved and it's business as usual. Unless you want to speculate on other cryptos for extra monetary gains, or have personal principles (such as the PoW system being energy wasting) against Bitcoin, by all means get out of and go into the others, but Bitcoin is not going to disappear or be abandoned, not for the reasons you cited.

Money should be cheap if only to encourage spending. And to be honest I personally do not see Bitcoin as currency as much as a store of value. Which is why I don't really feel appropriate calling Bitcoin a cryptocurrency. It's more like digital gold. Like gold, you don't use your gold to buy stuff, you sell your gold for fiat to buy stuff.

[NotLambchop]

...It's more like digital gold. Like gold, you don't use your gold to buy stuff, you sell your gold for fiat to buy stuff.

Gold, as a store of value, is becoming obsolete.  Like Bitcoin, it has been a poor store of value in the recent years.  Even when compared to USD.

[kutaka]

Now post 10 years gold price chart.

[coory]

agreed

[NotLambchop]

Now post 10 years gold price chart.

To what end?  I said gold is becoming obsolete, not that it was obsolete all along.
I mean, come on, gold?  And you guys think fiat is a dinosaur

[nuff]

Now post 10 years gold price chart.

To what end?  I said gold is becoming obsolete, not that it was obsolete all along.
I mean, come on, gold?  And you guys think fiat is a dinosaur

If gold is becoming obsolete, it's because eventually it'll be digitized. Bitcoin can easily replace physical gold in terms of its function as a store of value

[NotLambchop]

Now post 10 years gold price chart.

To what end?  I said gold is becoming obsolete, not that it was obsolete all along.
I mean, come on, gold?  And you guys think fiat is a dinosaur

If gold is becoming obsolete, it's because eventually it'll be digitized. Bitcoin can easily replace physical gold in terms of its function as a store of value

Well sure Bitcoin can easily replace gold.  So could Litecoin and any clonecoin.  Or shares in some dead artist's paintings.
What's your point?