Things said, and fights picked while we're waiting for our BFL products

[Inaba]

The whole "second hand chips" thing is mind boggling.  Mem's lies not withstanding, I have seen their chip shipments first hand (and hefted a 500 ct package of them) - if they are second hand, they are fine quality second hand goods.  The whole second hand chip thing is a baseless claim.  If anyone with more than a passing familiarity with the industry thought hard about it for more than a few minutes, it's fairly obvious how they acquire their chips.

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[bulanula]

The whole "second hand chips" thing is mind boggling.  Mem's lies not withstanding, I have seen their chip shipments first hand (and hefted a 500 ct package of them) - if they are second hand, they are fine quality second hand goods.  The whole second hand chip thing is a baseless claim.  If anyone with more than a passing familiarity with the industry thought hard about it for more than a few minutes, it's fairly obvious how they acquire their chips.

SO you DO work for BFL then ?

Might be wise to state a disclaimer when you promote them so fervently !

[rjk]

The whole "second hand chips" thing is mind boggling.  Mem's lies not withstanding, I have seen their chip shipments first hand (and hefted a 500 ct package of them) - if they are second hand, they are fine quality second hand goods.  The whole second hand chip thing is a baseless claim.  If anyone with more than a passing familiarity with the industry thought hard about it for more than a few minutes, it's fairly obvious how they acquire their chips.

SO you DO work for BFL then ?

Might be wise to state a disclaimer when you promote them so fervently !

No he's just the parcelboy that ran off with one of their shipments.

Grow up dude, and quit trying to make yourself look stupid.

[SgtSpike]

I laugh in the face of all those thinking BFL is legit. Second hand chips, lies, deception ... what more do you need ?

Just wait till the orders stop coming in and they pack for Barbados !

Not a scam in my book.  They delivered the product to my door better than described.  I couldn't care less what chip they use, so long as it does what it is supposed to do.

Just wait till that $60 chip in your BFL dies. Who knows its condition after it has been second hand used.

Some last 6 months, some last 7 months, some may last past a year. Sucks if it dies after 6 month warranty is up.

The warranty is 6 months.  I purchased the units expecting them to last at least that long.  Even if they all die the day after the warranty is up, I'll have still made money on them.

So, what's your point?  Everyone has the same information.  Everyone buying them knows that they are only warrantied for 6 months.

Again, it absolutely DOES NOT MATTER what chips they are.  The warranty period (and thus expected lifespan) of the units is 6 months.  Anyone buying them with expectations of them lasting longer than that is taking a risk that they will not, no matter what chips are used!

[mem]

I see Inaba is still unable to respond without throwing a classic E-tantrum.
Anyway - yes they are 2nd hand chips, unless BFL can point to a supplier who is prepared to announce they have a realtionship with BFL and do indeed supply new chips (will never happen).

What stinks is Inaba is this same person who is flaming the shit out of MTGOX for a small delay insists that everyone "SHUT THE FUCK UP" when questioning BFL for delays. Such an obvious double standard Im starting to think Inaba is actually just a scammer playing the long con.

Here is an excerpt:

WARNING - RIDICULOUS LEVELS OF DOUBLE STANDARDS AHEAD

I have been trying for nearly 3 weeks to release over $26,000 from MTGox.  Through miriad delays, lies and false promises, I am still unable to withdraw any USD from MTGox.  I believe, though I have not tested, that I may be able to transfer the funds out via Bitcoins, but it would come at a cost of conversion.  Which I have already paid twice in the past three weeks trying to get funds out.

At this point, I am absolutely sick and tired of the lying and BS that comes out of MTGox.  Nothing honest is ever released on their blog, it's always missing important facts or contains outright falsehoods.  Their customer service is a joke (I know, surprise!), and every time I contact them, they take days to get back to me... when they do it does not address the issue, but points to useless blog posts or gives excuses for actions taken or not taken.

This is everyones complaint RE BFL, the difference being that MTGOX always address public concerns, the only buthurt users Ive seen are botnets admins (yes Inaba could be a bitcoin botnet bitch).
So note the extreme double standard, he insists you can trust BFL with x3 times  this money.

It's almost laughable how poorly managed MTGox is, or it would be if it were not for the fact that they are holding millions of dollars of users funds without any recourse.

Yet again a double standard - it seems this behavior is completely defensible for BFL but unacceptable for bitcoins biggest exchange.
The only difference being is mtgox has the money you are waiting on and we are not certain if BFL's even exist in quantities above 50.

Unless these concerns are addressed and some reasonable explanation is offered, I will be moving all of my operations to another exchange.  Yes, I realize I am a small fish in a large pond, but I am also suggesting that everyone else do the same.

Yet again another double standard.
Apparently it is fine for Inaba to spit the dummy and attack MTGOX in 1 of his now famous e-rants, but should anyone such as myself politely air concerns about BFL's practices - get ready for the abuse from Inaba & his sock puppets.

MTGox can not be trusted with your data, as they have shown through being hacked via methods that were detailed to them long before the hack took place.  They are clearly showing that they can't be trusted with your funds, either, since they will not release funds in any usable manner (with the possible exception of BTC).  

Double standard, apparently its fine for BFL to lie for over 6 months but you wont trust a company that has a security breach and announces it ?

Explain yourself Inaba.
Without one of your immature e-tantrums if at all possible.
Possible BFL purchasers please note Inaba's double standards - do you really want to trust someone who is so inconsistent ?

[Inaba]

Good work mem, you did exactly as I predicted!  Go Mem!  Your failure to reply is epic!

Just to recap:

Mem will say something about my "wall of cries."  Then he will insult me in some fashion.  After that, he will ignore anything written that requests some sort of backing to his claims.  Then he will say something about a "wall of cries" again and add another insult. Then, after he's done with this, he'll make up new fabrications or rehash the same ones in hopes that someone, anyone will listen to his whining and crying.  I mean, if you repeat a lie long enough someone is bound to believe it, yeah?

Check, check and ... CHECK!  Hat trick!

Next prediction: He will whine about "NO I didn't, you didn't answer me!  Waaaa!"

[rjk]

Anyway - yes they are 2nd hand chips, unless BFL can point to a supplier who is prepared to announce they have a realtionship with BFL and do indeed supply new chips (will never happen).

Since when does anyone reveal the source of something that keeps them in business? Wanna bet on the response you would get if you went asking all the rest of the FPGA devs where they get their chips? I'll bet it would be something along the lines of go away, retard, although perhaps a bit more diplomatically worded.

I see you conveniently sidestepped all of Inaba's well placed arguments, and basically took it in the ass. Does this mean you finally give up on your ridiculous and inane claims that have no proof? Good, because everyone was getting tired of the same old bullshit. Now if you please, go find the nearest bridge and find out whether you can fly off of it.

[Garr255]

^ me

[mem]

Since when does anyone reveal the source of something that keeps them in business? Wanna bet on the response you would get if you went asking all the rest of the FPGA devs where they get their chips? I'll bet it would be something along the lines of go away, retard, although perhaps a bit more diplomatically worded.

They are sanded and lapped, others in the industry say they would be unable to source the "old" chips unless sourced second hand or paying ~$2000+ new.
These are 2nd hand chips, they have already been caught out in other numerous lies - it would not surprise me to in the least to see 1 more lie added.

No other FPGA developer has hid the identity chips used and definitely has not made outrageous lies claiming they developed them themselves.

What is your major malfunction here ? Do you guys really have such a flimsy grip on reality ? Should I expect this from all BFL supporters ?

I see you conveniently sidestepped all of Inaba's well placed arguments

There are none, WTF are you talking about.
Inaba simply failed to defend his massive double standards.


Inaba I appreciate you kept it short, but Im disappointed when put on the spot you cowardly refuse to answer questions posed.
i see you either scream abuse, side step or insult  but never ever address points raised.

Pathetic, go back to crying at MTGOX for your own failure to read a FAQ.

[Inaba]

They are sanded and lapped, others in the industry say they would be unable to source the "old" chips unless sourced second hand or paying ~$2000+ new.
These are 2nd hand chips, they have already been caught out in other numerous lies - it would not surprise me to in the least to see 1 more lie added.

The only one lying here is you, brother.

Inaba I appreciate you kept it short, but Im disappointed when put on the spot you cowardly refuse to answer questions posed.
i see you either scream abuse, side step or insult  but never ever address points raised.

Until you can respond to a single point you've made with proof, what's the point?  Everything you have said is basically a lie. You've been asked repeatedly to back up your claims and you have repeatedly failed to do so.  

Next prediction: He will whine about "NO I didn't, you didn't answer me!  Waaaa!"

BANG!  Right on the money.  

For my next trick:

Prediction time ... though this is a two parter, because it can go two ways at this point:

1: Mem will say he's done with this because it's pointless to argue.
or
2: Mem will "laugh" and pretend like he wasn't butthurt by the fact that he's been bitchslapped repeatedly but is too ignorant to understand what's being directed at him.  

Bonus prediction, in a recursive fashion:  He will make a comment with regards to number two, refuting that he's actually butthurt and will claim that no one has bitchslapped him and everything he's said is golden; everyone agrees with it and those that don't are too stupid to realize his brilliance or are BFL fanboys.

[Garr255]

They are sanded and lapped, others in the industry say they would be unable to source the "old" chips unless sourced second hand or paying ~$2000+ new.
These are 2nd hand chips, they have already been caught out in other numerous lies - it would not surprise me to in the least to see 1 more lie added.

The only one lying here is you, brother.

Inaba I appreciate you kept it short, but Im disappointed when put on the spot you cowardly refuse to answer questions posed.
i see you either scream abuse, side step or insult  but never ever address points raised.

Until you can respond to a single point you've made with proof, what's the point?  Everything you have said is basically a lie. You've been asked repeatedly to back up your claims and you have repeatedly failed to do so.  

Next prediction: He will whine about "NO I didn't, you didn't answer me!  Waaaa!"

BANG!  Right on the money.  

For my next trick:

Prediction time ... though this is a two parter, because it can go two ways at this point:

1: Mem will say he's done with this because it's pointless to argue.
or
2: Mem will "laugh" and pretend like he wasn't butthurt by the fact that he's been bitchslapped repeatedly but is too ignorant to understand what's being directed at him.  

Bonus prediction, in a recursive fashion:  He will make a comment with regards to number two, refuting that he's actually butthurt and will claim that no one has bitchslapped him and everything he's said is golden; everyone agrees with it and those that don't are too stupid to realize his brilliance or are BFL fanboys.

Who else is feeling a Google conference call with these guys?

[kjlimo]

my single is sitting here runnning just fine for two weeks now.

looking forward to getting my next 3...

and then ordering more

[mem]

The only one lying here is you, brother.

yet another baseless claim.

Until you can respond to a single point you've made with proof, what's the point?

You really really do not understand simple concepts like the burden of proof do you (assuming this is not a purposeful display of ignorance).

You have raised 0 points - everyone here is reading the same thread, please cease your childish lies and pathetic distraction attempts. Please answer the questions raised or shut up - I for one am tired of the baseless claims you and other BFL fanboys put forward. As I told you previously and you still do not seem to understand what "the burden of proof" is.

Ive been running your rants past the local atheist club as you provide an excellent example of arguing based on faith while believing you are arguing on fact.
They suggested this reading material for you: http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Skepticism

This quote in particular that applies to you is:

In science, the burden of proof falls upon the claimant; and the more extraordinary a claim, the heavier is the burden of proof demanded. The true skeptic takes an agnostic position, one that says the claim is not proved rather than disproved. He asserts that the claimant has not borne the burden of proof and that science must continue to build its cognitive map of reality without incorporating the extraordinary claim as a new "fact." Since the true skeptic does not assert a claim, he has no burden to prove anything. He just goes on using the established theories of "conventional science" as usual. But if a critic asserts that there is evidence for disproof, that he has a negative hypothesis — saying, for instance, that a seeming psi result was actually due to an artifact — he is making a claim and therefore also has to bear a burden of proof.

Let me know if you need help understanding that - Im prepared to patiently explain this you you however long it takes.

Allow me to reiterate the points I have clearly raised you have been unable to address.

BFL,  At least A Dishonest Company UNCONTESTED FACT, Quite Possibly A Scam.

1) False advertising regarding shipping times from day 0 until current- UNCONTESTED FACT
2) False advertising regarding Chips - Claims it is their own design, in fact they are reusing 2nd Hand Chips. - CONTESTED FACT Burden of proof lies with BFL, currently they have 0 credibility due to previous lies as do you. All available information points to them using 2nd hand chips.
3) Accepts numerous pre-orders while being unable to meet delivery dates or production volume (Still stinks of a scam here). UNCONTESTED FACT
4) Numerous BFL Shills plugging BFL on the forum UNCONTESTED FACT - You Inaba are now my prime example. All your claims are baseless and you attack anyone that dares question BFL or yourself and your argument tactics reek of confidence tricks.

So please, spit off another rant and I will re-paste the outstanding issues with BFL that you have failed yet again to dispute, or try to apply some critical thinking to this issue and how you plan to prove anything you have claimed. If you cannot (and Im 100% certain you cant), accept that anyone believing you is choosing to do so in good faith and not based on sufficient evidence.

[mem]

Who else is feeling a Google conference call with these guys?

Im all for it, but Im not up for a 30min abuse session from Inaba.
he is unable to dispute any of my claims (or unwilling) and he does not seem to understand "burden of proof" or debate methods.

It would be exactly like sitting down with a WBC member and debating the existence of God, all you will get is screaming abuse and spittle flying in your direction.

[Garr255]

It would be exactly like sitting down with a WBC member and debating the existence of God, all you will get is screaming abuse and spittle flying in your direction.

I agree with the second part of that

[Inaba]

yet another baseless claim.

Oh really?  I'll just take one small example from your growing pile of lies.

So lets recap your argument:

1. Dubious company registration.
2. Next to no contact.
3. Outright lies regarding delivery times (and has continued to lie regarding delivery times for 6+ months).
4. Extremely few seen out in the wild (enough that you could simply pay someone for a false review to help out the long con).
5. 0 information on chips used (this is the only thing that does not bother me).
6. Constant spamming of BFL.
7. The person assuring us its not a con has answered 0 questions of substance, instead selling you on the "I trust them, you should to".

1. Legitimate complaint
2. Outright lie
3. Legitimate complaint
4. Outright lie
5. Immaterial, they are under no obligation to tell you.
6. Outright lie
7. Outright lie

So out of 7 claims, 4 are outright lies, 2 are legitimate and 1 is irrelevant.  You have, apparently, two beefs. 1 the shipping date, which you have harped on incessently.  And two, the "dubious company registration."  I'm not sure how that exactly effects hardware production, but hey, it is a fact and you brought it up, so you can have it.

Lie after lie after lie.  Keep it up, Mem, good work!  You might want to re-read the quote you made.  The burden of proof is indeed upon the claimant.  You are making claims, therefore the burden of proof is on you.  

You claim they are using 2nd hand chips.  Prove it.
You claim I make baseless claims.  Prove it.  Show me a single baseless claim I have made.

1 and 3 are the same, tired argument.  No one disputes they miss their shipping dates.  It's never been a point of contention.  That is, as usual, the only "fact" you've been able to provide throughout the long and sordid history of your posts.  I have already provided many examples of poof positive counter claims to everything you've said and you fail to respond to every single one of them.  

2: Mem will "laugh" and pretend like he wasn't butthurt by the fact that he's been bitchslapped repeatedly but is too ignorant to understand what's being directed at him.

I'm going to have to say that bringing out the "Burden of proof" argument (especially when you don't even understand it) pretty much qualifies as you pretending like you wern't just bitchslapped yet again.  So... nailed that prediction as well.  

So... here we are, 3 for 3.  Lets go for four:

Mem will next repaste his post above, saying I don't understand the burden of proof.  He will try to make the claim that somehow his claims aren't really "claims," but "facts," even though this is no evidence (only speculation) for these "facts."  

PS -

I love the lie about running my "rants" past the local atheist club (population: Mem).  That's a good one.  The thing is, if you had actually run the entire conversation between you and I past anyone with even a smattering of logic, they would be laughing in your face uncontrollably.

[SgtSpike]

I like how mem completely ignores all the happy BFL customers mining away...

Maybe he's just jealous that he didn't believe BFL miners were real earlier on.

[Inaba]

I'll make you a deal Mem:  If I can prove, beyond a a shadow a doubt, that you have lied at least once in your conversations with me, will you concede that you are a liar and that you fabricate nearly everything you post?  Simple question, yes or no?  Of course, if you say no, then we know you've lied   If you say yes... well... I think we both know what will happen.

[mufa23]

1) Inaba is a con artist involved with BFL. He and his cronies put up photos, start threads and pat each others backs for being "HUR DUR SO FUCKING SMART".
- The BFL's are fake or do exist but only a small amount (just enough to get people excited).

[bitlane]

.........and he does not seem to understand "burden of proof" or debate methods.

So you are citing 'Burden of Proof' as your primary Debate 'method' while pretty much swinging for the fences with accusations ?(albeit, from way out in left field....)
Isn't that (Burden of Proof) just a lazy man's argument ?
Regardless, I can't take anyone seriously, who begs for donations in their forum sig. Get a fucking job.


ps. Are you looking for Bitcoin donations so that you can use it to put gas into your Rape Wagon ? the one you will use to abduct & violate Children with ? Pedophile much ?
(enter----->burden of proof)
NOW PROVE ME WRONG.
(Is that how the 'Burden of Proof' debate works ?)