Things said, and fights picked while we're waiting for our BFL products

[bulanula]

mem, I 100% agree with your views.

The trolls are just coming out to play. They were probably given a free BFL to troll about BFL and their honesty. Notice how all the very vocal folks have BFLs too ! I'd like to see D&T have a BFL before the 6 week deadline this 24 May !

For the blind : keep buying more BOXES !!!

We already know they are about to pack up and leave us in the dust yet again.

Their business registration is invalid and their source of $60 chips that cost >$2000 USD in the US will run out at one point.

I will be laughing yet again at the fish caught in the net and holding the bag on these BFLs magix !

Bring it on !

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[bitlane]

mem, I 100% agree with your views.

You would. Broke/Envious people usually stick together and find whatever excuse they can to skirt the REAL issue(s).....the fact that they don't have what they want and are jealous that others do have it.

[SgtSpike]

mem, I 100% agree with your views.

You would. Broke/Envious people usually stick together and find whatever excuse they can to skirt the REAL issue(s).....the fact that they don't have what they want and are jealous that others do have it.

Haha, +1.

If they were a con, even a long con, they would have packed up and left long ago.

I was given no free BFL's.  I paid for 10 of them, and received 10 of them.  Bulanula, are you just jealous you don't have the stones to order from a company you think might not be legitimate?

[bulanula]

mem, I 100% agree with your views.

You would. Broke/Envious people usually stick together and find whatever excuse they can to skirt the REAL issue(s).....the fact that they don't have what they want and are jealous that others do have it.

Haha, +1.

If they were a con, even a long con, they would have packed up and left long ago.

I was given no free BFL's.  I paid for 10 of them, and received 10 of them.  Bulanula, are you just jealous you don't have the stones to order from a company you think might not be legitimate?

Damn right. I am livin' off a dolla' a day !

[SgtSpike]

mem, I 100% agree with your views.

You would. Broke/Envious people usually stick together and find whatever excuse they can to skirt the REAL issue(s).....the fact that they don't have what they want and are jealous that others do have it.

Haha, +1.

If they were a con, even a long con, they would have packed up and left long ago.

I was given no free BFL's.  I paid for 10 of them, and received 10 of them.  Bulanula, are you just jealous you don't have the stones to order from a company you think might not be legitimate?

Damn right. I am livin' off a dolla' a day !

Nailed it!

[Inaba]

Poor Mem... caught between a rock and a hard place.  Screwed if you do, screwed if you dont...

Prediction: "I have a life and you don't Nya nya. That's why I haven't responded to your childish 'challenge.' U r so stupid! lol!!11!" 

[mufa23]

Poor Mem... caught between a rock and a hard place.  Screwed if you do, screwed if you dont...

Prediction: "I have a life and you don't Nya nya. That's why I haven't responded to your childish 'challenge.' U r so stupid! lol!!11!" 

Or he'll try to play it off as trolling. Pic related.

[mem]

I like how mem completely ignores all the happy BFL customers mining away...

Maybe he's just jealous that he didn't believe BFL miners were real earlier on.

I dont know them personally - if there are any in WA Australia Id be happy to take a drive to inspect one in person.
Infact Id love the opportunity - get in contact with me WA Bitcoiners.

The trolls are just coming out to play. They were probably given a free BFL to troll about BFL and their honesty. Notice how all the very vocal folks have BFLs too ! I'd like to see D&T have a BFL before the 6 week deadline this 24 May !

Their business registration is invalid and their source of $60 chips that cost >$2000 USD in the US will run out at one point.

Yes the business regristration is extremely concerning - another valid point Inaba refuses to discuss.

If they were a con, even a long con, they would have packed up and left long ago.ight not be legitimate?

Incorrect assumption. They would hang around as long as possible while orders are still coming in.
Are you ignorant or just another BFL shill - Im not sure.

I'll make you a deal Mem:  If I can prove, beyond a a shadow a doubt, that you have lied at least once in your conversations with me, will you concede that you are a liar and that you fabricate nearly everything you post?

No because it is a ridiculous request made by a con artist - Are you seriously this unbalanced, its extremely concerning ?
If I have lied, raise the specific point and correct me and I will gladly admit I was wrong - Does that sound fair you big man child ?
I have made assumptions that have been wrong, shit happens this is indeed life.
Unlike BFL Im prepared to discuss any point of contention in a civil manner.

If you really believe that a single mistake invalidates all claims then BFL is a scam following the same logic.

Poor Mem... caught between a rock and a hard place.  Screwed if you do, screwed if you dont...

Prediction: "I have a life and you don't Nya nya. That's why I haven't responded to your childish 'challenge.' U r so stupid! lol!!11!"  

OK Im assuming you are in fact a child

You make posts like that then claim you have "respect" my god your delusions are staggering.

Or he'll try to play it off as trolling. Pic related.

Since I have only ever argued on facts available while doing my best to ignore Inaba's childish e-tantrums Id assume you are infact trolling.
If not, prove me wrong and contribute meaningfully to this discussion.

NOW TO REITERATE ALL POINTS BFL & INABA STILL REFUSE TO ADDRESS

BFL is A Dishonest Company FACT, Quite Possibly A Scam.

1) False advertising regarding shipping times from day 0 until current- FACT
2) False advertising regarding Chips - Claims it is their own design, in fact they are reusing 2nd Hand Chips. - INABA AND BFL REFUSE TO DISPUTE THIS Burden of proof lies with BFL, currently they have 0 credibility due to previous lies as do you. All available information points to them using 2nd hand chips.
3) Accepts numerous pre-orders while being unable to meet delivery dates or production volume (Still stinks of a scam here). FACT
4) Numerous BFL Shills plugging BFL on the forum FACT - You Inaba are now my prime example (please not the childish tantrums and abusive language repeatedly used). Inaba is an angry abusive idiot with 0 facts to support his outrageous claims. He has deep misunderstandings on debating and what the burden of proof is.

Inaba, if you can stop your childish displays long enough to address a point raised with counter arguments supported by facts then please do.

Otherwise Im sure you will continue your childish display of frustration.

Im not sure what this rock and hard place is, abuse from a frustrated child does not phase me - just another American with bad manners (hardly rare).
Im sitting pretty really, BFL is running scared, the outright accuse people of being trolls for asking questions or just blunty ignoring them.
Inaba is currently so unbalanced and spouting nonsense it makes countering him extremely easy - he spends more time discrediting himself via his embarrassing displays than anyone else.

subbed !


Ok I just re-read one of Inaba's gems - he is either a Troll or the dumbest person online capable of typing.

You might want to re-read the quote you made.  The burden of proof is indeed upon the claimant.  You are making claims, therefore the burden of proof is on you. 

Let me sum up our local WBC members mentality.

Fundie Inaba> GOD EXISTS AND HATES FAGGOTS
Atheist> How can you prove God exists
Fundie Inaba> YOUR THE C*** MAKING THE CLAIMS FAGGOT - YOU PROVE HE DOES NOT.

welcome back to my ignore list troll.

[SgtSpike]

1) Perhaps they thought they could meet those shipping deadlines from day one, but kept running into delays (as they stated)?
2) So?  As long as the chips do what they need to do, I don't care which ones they use.  Most reasonable people don't either.
3) I'd rather them accept pre-orders than not accept orders at all.  That'd make more of a mess, as people compete to try to get an order submitted whenever they open it up for new orders.
4) Pointless point, and not a fact.

[Garr255]

1) Perhaps they thought they could meet those shipping deadlines from day one, but kept running into delays (as they stated)?
2) So?  As long as the chips do what they need to do, I don't care which ones they use.  Most reasonable people don't either.
3) I'd rather them accept pre-orders than not accept orders at all.  That'd make more of a mess, as people compete to try to get an order submitted whenever they open it up for new orders.
4) Pointless point, and not a fact.

Hey, Spike: Who said you were allowed to think logically in this thread?

[mem]

1) Perhaps they thought they could meet those shipping deadlines from day one, but kept running into delays (as they stated)?
2) So?  As long as the chips do what they need to do, I don't care which ones they use.  Most reasonable people don't either.
3) I'd rather them accept pre-orders than not accept orders at all.  That'd make more of a mess, as people compete to try to get an order submitted whenever they open it up for new orders.
4) Pointless point, and not a fact.

Holly crap, a decent response.

1) More than likely if they are not running a scam. New company with a terrible launch and awful PR - BFL LIES
2) If it really was not an issue for all sides - they should announce the fact and not hide it. - BFL LIES
3) Agreed, though should of had realistic expectations of number of units they will be able to produce in the first batch so they do not accept to many pre-orders. Instead of advertising that shipping times are 4-6 weeks. (again new company launch badly handled, terrible PR) - BFL LIES
4) Inaba reeks of a confidence con artist, then we have the "Hur Dur I visited BFL and trust them with kajillions ask me anything.....what your asking me questions ? FUCK YOU BFL HATER TROLL !?!?!" - Debatable

So I am correct on 3 out of 4 points and the 4th is debatable.

You have provided good alternative explanations for possible scenarios - my issue is they are a company of liars, apparently you feel this is OK.
Frankly, as an individual that is fine (your life, your choice), but you should not in good faith recommend BFL without warning new clients of the many questions surrounding the company and the deceitful business practices.

Cheers, this is the kind of discussion I prefer.

BFL is A Dishonest Company FACT, Quite Possibly A Scam.

1) False advertising regarding shipping times from day 0 until current-BFL LIES TO CUSTOMERS - FACT
2) False advertising regarding Chips - Claims it is their own design, in fact they are reusing 2nd Hand Chips. - BFL LIES TO CUSTOMERS - FACT - BFL SELLS 2nd HAND CHIPS AS NEW - ALL SIGNS POINT TO YES - BFL REFUSES TO DISCUSS
3) Accepts numerous pre-orders while being unable to meet delivery dates or production volumeFACT
4) Numerous BFL Shills plugging BFL on the forum UNPROVEN

[SgtSpike]

I suppose, for me, the fudging they do (or potentially, just the lack of sensitivity they give to updating customers to their current situations), doesn't bother me.  I halfway expect it in a startup company that suddenly gets way more business than they can handle.  They put a higher priority on fulfilling orders than they do on apprising customers of when their orders will be fulfilled.  I don't know that that is the right way to handle things, but it is their way of handling things.

That said, they are FAR from being a scam.  Everyone who has ordered units up through the middle of March now has received them.  Feel free to call them liars about their delivery times and what chips they use, but that doesn't make them scammers in my book, and I'm pretty sure most people agree with me on that one!

One definition of a scam is "to swindle (someone) by means of a trick".  How is BFL swindling anyone?  They are delivery a product (albeit late), and it is doing exactly what they advertised it to do (albeit with a different chip than they claimed).  I just don't see it as a scam.  Liars about some things, sure, but a scam, no.

[mem]

I suppose, for me, the fudging they do (or potentially, just the lack of sensitivity they give to updating customers to their current situations), doesn't bother me.  I halfway expect it in a startup company that suddenly gets way more business than they can handle.  They put a higher priority on fulfilling orders than they do on apprising customers of when their orders will be fulfilled.  I don't know that that is the right way to handle things, but it is their way of handling things.

Yep thats a fair position, no arguments there.

That said, they are FAR from being a scam.  Everyone who has ordered units up through the middle of March now has received them.  Feel free to call them liars about their delivery times and what chips they use, but that doesn't make them scammers in my book, and I'm pretty sure most people agree with me on that one!

Definitely not a scam, but in my book (and yes I acknowledge that many disagree) still a potential scam.

One definition of a scam is "to swindle (someone) by means of a trick".  How is BFL swindling anyone?  They are delivery a product (albeit late), and it is doing exactly what they advertised it to do (albeit with a different chip than they claimed).  I just don't see it as a scam.  Liars about some things, sure, but a scam, no.

Again, agreed. Lairs yes - Scam, no but maybe..... ?

The only scenario in which this is a scam is as I said previously, they accept orders for N products then ensure they only deliver (N/x) products scaling up deliveries as more orders come in. This is a just a Ponzi scheme that uses a product instead of weekly/monthly return on investments.
There are less likely scenarios but Id doubt they would pull anything bigger while operating in the USA.

Thanks again SgtSpike, while we do have differing conclusions I sincerely appreciate the exchange.

BFL is A Dishonest Company that uses misleading advertising, Possibly A Scam.

1) False advertising regarding shipping times Liars - FACT
2) False advertising regarding Chips - Claims it is their own design, bu they are most likely reusing 2nd Hand Chips and advertising as new. MISLEADING CUSTOMERS ON PURPOSE - FACT
3) Accepts numerous pre-orders while being unable to meet delivery dates or production volume FACT
4) Numerous BFL Shills plugging BFL on the forum LIKELY BUT UNPROVEN

[bitlane]

Blah blah, derp I like touching young boys derpa derpa

Could you perhaps share some information about your mining operation and the hardware you currently use ?
How about what products you currently have on order ?

Maybe you are a competitor and have developed your own mining hardware that you are going to begin shipping soon.

Don't tell me that you Bitcoin Gambling list is your only claim to fame.....

[Inaba]

Poor Mem  A giant wall of cries and still unable to refute a single point I have asked him to elaborate on.  Not a surprise from a confirmed liar...

So... here we are, 3 for 3.  Lets go for four:

Mem will next repaste his post above, saying I don't understand the burden of proof.  He will try to make the claim that somehow his claims aren't really "claims," but "facts," even though this is no evidence (only speculation) for these "facts."  

Bam!  Four for four!  

Is it hard being so predictable Mem?  

You need to calm down there partner, are you raging behind your monitor?  I can only imagine whats going on behind that keyboard of yours.  Your wall of crying about how no one agrees with you is getting redundant, at least come up with some new material, hambone.

PS - just to head off the predictable post of "No you didn't!  AHahahaah I am so awesome," I give you a post from PAGE 1 of this thread:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=81819.msg901833#msg901833

Inaba's pool is the only one that supports BFL (he fakes all the BFL stats), strangely Inaba still uses and buys large amounts of GPUS (I thought BFL was better  and the wait was worth it ).

What does this even mean?  BFLs can be used on any pool.  Fake BFL stats?  What the hell does this mean?  I don't even HAVE BFL stats on the pool.  I haven't bought GPUs in months.. the last GPU I bought was from Yochdog in January.  I've since sold off a large portion of my GPU farm.  But go on, continue to lie.

Address it.

The single exists, BFL ships 10% - %20 of the earliest orders, stalls while total orders increase then when complaints are to high they ship another.
eg:

One quick look in the "ordered/shipped" thread would reveal this as a lie.  Go on Mem, lets hear some proof!

Address it.

After all that, knowing that they lied about 2nd hand parts being used and the ongoing false advertising regarding shipping Id still not do business with them due to concerns (package not delivered, warranty issues etc).

You know this?  You do not.  You are lying (wow, imagine that).  Go on, provide some proof.

Address it.

You have failed to address any point in that post.  This doesn't include literally every single point you have failed to address in every other thread as well.

[Inaba]

So here's basically the rest of my predictions for Mem, since they all follow the same pattern:

Mem: BFL misses shipping dates!  BFL is a scam!  BFL lies!  There's no such thing as a real single, they are all owned by shills! BFL's company registration proves they are scammers!

Inaba:  Here's why your points are incorrect.  Reason A. Reason B. Reason C.  If you have proof to back up your claims, please provide them.

Mem:  OOh look, there's some birds and a cow!  Wow! A cow!  Wait what?  BFL Misses shipping dates they are liars that's why they scam.

Inaba: Yes a cow mem, that's nice.  Now address Reason A, B, and C.  Or hell, just address one point.

Mem: Hey did you see that movie last year called ... I don't remember, it had a guy in it.  Did you know BFL misses shipping dates and they are liars and scam artists.

Inaba: No, what?  Movie?  What does that have to do with the discussion?  Please address points A, B and C.  

Mem: You are an idiot!  You spit on your monitor!  You are a child!  Wall of cries WALL OF CRIES I say!  

Inaba: Yes, thank you Mem.  Now address point A, B or C.  

Mem:  WALL OF CRIES!  YOU ARE ANGRY!  I AM SPOUTING RANDOM SENTENCES!

Inaba: Great, but please address poitns A, B, or C.

Mem: Oh look, a cow!  I like cows.

Inaba and everyone else:  O.o

[rjk]

I believe his(?) line of thinking is something along the lines of  IF I REPEAT IT MANY TIMES IT BECOMES TRUE HURR DURR

Sorry, doesn't work.

[mem]

Just staying on topic while the trolls troll


BFL is A Dishonest Company that uses misleading advertising, Possibly A Scam.

1) False advertising regarding shipping times Liars - FACT
2) False advertising regarding Chips - Claims it is their own design, bu they are most likely reusing 2nd Hand Chips and advertising as new. MISLEADING CUSTOMERS ON PURPOSE - FACT
3) Accepts numerous pre-orders while being unable to meet delivery dates or production volume FACT
4) Numerous BFL Shills plugging BFL on the forum LIKELY BUT UNPROVEN

SgtSpike has agreed with 1-3, inaba despite his rants and the rest of the trolls do as well (if not please correct me, but it does seem everyone agrees on 1-3).
The main disagreement atm is 4 which only time will prove.
The other less significant disagreement is that lying to clients constantly == "A dishonest company", I personally would say thats the very definition of "A dishonest company" but I am one person with his opinion come to your own conclusions.

[rjk]

bullshit fud

How much are you being paid to post bullshit?

[Inaba]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=81819.msg901833#msg901833

Inaba's pool is the only one that supports BFL (he fakes all the BFL stats), strangely Inaba still uses and buys large amounts of GPUS (I thought BFL was better  and the wait was worth it ).

What does this even mean?  BFLs can be used on any pool.  Fake BFL stats?  What the hell does this mean?  I don't even HAVE BFL stats on the pool.  I haven't bought GPUs in months.. the last GPU I bought was from Yochdog in January.  I've since sold off a large portion of my GPU farm.  But go on, continue to lie.

Address it.

The single exists, BFL ships 10% - %20 of the earliest orders, stalls while total orders increase then when complaints are to high they ship another.
eg:

One quick look in the "ordered/shipped" thread would reveal this as a lie.  Go on Mem, lets hear some proof!

Address it.

After all that, knowing that they lied about 2nd hand parts being used and the ongoing false advertising regarding shipping Id still not do business with them due to concerns (package not delivered, warranty issues etc).

You know this?  You do not.  You are lying (wow, imagine that).  Go on, provide some proof.

Address it.

You have failed to address any point in that post.  This doesn't include literally every single point you have failed to address in every other thread as well.

PS -  Nobody but you "agrees" on point 2.  Point 1 and 3 are the same.  You have exactly ONE point that you keep harping on, that being they miss shipping dates.  

Poor Mem, repeat your lies long enough and ...  nobody believes you anyway.