Bitcoin Island

[R-]

Total Received   1 BTC

Almost there.

[edd]

Cruise ships are nice but they require a lot of manpower to run. After doing a cursory internet search, it looks like one would need a minimum of a Captain, Staff Captain, Chief / First Officer, Chief Radio Officer, Security Officer, Deckhand, Able Seaman, Safety Officer, Bosun / First Mate, Chief Engineer, Chief Electrician, Electrician, Motorman, and a Plumber.

Not to mention all the kitchen, housekeeping, and general maintenance staff. Who would pay their salaries?

Weather is also something to be considered. At least during a bad storm, no one has to worry about an island sinking.

No, I agree that an island would be the way to go but I also feel GLBSE is the way to finance it. That way Nefario can verify the identities of those in charge and it would be easier to pay back investors if it didn't work out. If someone draws up a sound business plan and shareholders are able to vote on developments and will own a proportionate piece of the project, I'd seriously consider investing.

Wirtland and Atlantium were interesting experiments in virtual countries, but they obviously don't have enough active citizens to make much headway in establishing a global presence. I'm pretty sure that if a handful of bitcoin community members put forth a serious effort at creating a new micronation with a bitcoin based economy, it could easily rival any existing example in a matter of days.

On the other hand, it might not be such a bad thing that this island is under Nicaraguan jurisdiction - maintaining a diplomatic relationship with one government is easier than fighting them all.

[ssaCEO]

Cruise ships are nice but they require a lot of manpower to run.
...
On the other hand, it might not be such a bad thing that this island is under Nicaraguan jurisdiction - maintaining a diplomatic relationship with one government is easier than fighting them all.

Agree on both counts. And I also think that the Bitcoin community is the shortest viable route to establishing a micronation that exists today, given we already have a currency. In fact, we're a currency in search of a country. The problem is, if you're going to choose a flag of convenience, you have to be careful you choose one that won't invade or nationalize you as soon as you start doing something interesting. Honduras might be a better choice. Costa Rica would probably be great. Nicaragua is a definite no-go. No way in hell. I wouldn't even consider opening a bank account there, let alone buying property.

*One little edit to this - the online casino industry is way ahead of the curve when it comes to figuring out the basics you need in a jurisdiction before trying to operate there with a large amount of capital. The lessons learned in the industry since the late '90s would be useful to someone today trying to navigate the world of offshore finance, real estate, data storage and currency exchange.

[MoonShadow]

Cruise ships are nice but they require a lot of manpower to run. After doing a cursory internet search, it looks like one would need a minimum of a Captain, Staff Captain, Chief / First Officer, Chief Radio Officer, Security Officer, Deckhand, Able Seaman, Safety Officer, Bosun / First Mate, Chief Engineer, Chief Electrician, Electrician, Motorman, and a Plumber.

Not to mention all the kitchen, housekeeping, and general maintenance staff. Who would pay their salaries?

Weather is also something to be considered. At least during a bad storm, no one has to worry about an island sinking.

No, I agree that an island would be the way to go but I also feel GLBSE is the way to finance it. That way Nefario can verify the identities of those in charge and it would be easier to pay back investors if it didn't work out. If someone draws up a sound business plan and shareholders are able to vote on developments and will own a proportionate piece of the project, I'd seriously consider investing.

Wirtland and Atlantium were interesting experiments in virtual countries, but they obviously don't have enough active citizens to make much headway in establishing a global presence. I'm pretty sure that if a handful of bitcoin community members put forth a serious effort at creating a new micronation with a bitcoin based economy, it could easily rival any existing example in a matter of days.

On the other hand, it might not be such a bad thing that this island is under Nicaraguan jurisdiction - maintaining a diplomatic relationship with one government is easier than fighting them all.

A ship could also move out of the way of a storm, an island can't.  And considering that we're talking about glorified sandbars, there's no certainty that there will be any useful island left after the first good tropical storm rolls through.

And a ship that isn't moving, doesn't need a pilot.  Most of those jobs mentioned can be performed by the same people while not piloting the ship.  Do you really think that a ship needs both a first officer and a radio officer?  Some ships need these things, but mostly because they are in constant motion.

[ssaCEO]

Realistically, you could almost definitely find crew up to the officer level who'd be willing to live & work for a decent room and board. And yes, you could move away from storms as well as from regional powers who suddenly decided to expand their maritime claims to include your island, as has been done many times before.

The first sustainable micronation will have to float, and have to have great connectivity. The reason it hasn't been done yet boils down to the fact that floating and having great internet access are still mutually exclusive. That is the only reason it hasn't been done. Beyond that, there are questions of what laws, who's in charge, what currency, etc; but with a functional currency independent of national fiat, Bitcoiners are actually uniquely well positioned to create something like this...possibly more so than any other group since the founding city-states of the Hanseatic league opened up the original free trade zone.

The key to making it work would be overcoming the inherent costs in reconciling mobility (floating) with connectivity (tethering), while sacrificing neither freedom of movement nor freedom of communication. That is what any such plan ultimately comes down to. A Bitcoin micronation requires that you not trade away economic or personal liberties in exchange for the other. No nation on earth presently accommodates both types of liberties, and if the "Chinese Model" is any indication, things will only go downhill from here. So - yeah - a ship is a good place to start. Nicaraguan island, not so much.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Realistically, you could almost definitely find crew up to the officer level who'd be willing to live & work for a decent room and board. And yes, you could move away from storms as well as from regional powers who suddenly decided to expand their maritime claims to include your island, as has been done many times before.

The first sustainable micronation will have to float, and have to have great connectivity. The reason it hasn't been done yet boils down to the fact that floating and having great internet access are still mutually exclusive. That is the only reason it hasn't been done. Beyond that, there are questions of what laws, who's in charge, what currency, etc; but with a functional currency independent of national fiat, Bitcoiners are actually uniquely well positioned to create something like this...possibly more so than any other group since the founding city-states of the Hanseatic league opened up the original free trade zone.

The key to making it work would be overcoming the inherent costs in reconciling mobility (floating) with connectivity (tethering), while sacrificing neither freedom of movement nor freedom of communication. That is what any such plan ultimately comes down to. A Bitcoin micronation requires that you not trade away economic or personal liberties in exchange for the other. No nation on earth presently accommodates both types of liberties, and if the "Chinese Model" is any indication, things will only go downhill from here. So - yeah - a ship is a good place to start. Nicaraguan island, not so much.

Great idea until the ship mysterious sinks into the Mariana Trench, or the like, thereby concealing the true cause of the "accident" for years to come.

[Fuzzy]

You WILL need to transfer that to fiat for the purchase, and I'd like to see someone sell 40k BTC without crashing the market and actually get $5 per coin 

[conspirosphere.tk]

The first sustainable micronation will have to float, and have to have great connectivity.

Recently I heard that the PirateBay was thinking to launch drones to use as pirate satellites or s/t like that. Maybe they could support our floating micronation with connectivity if we take them aboard.

[World]

what about concentrate manpower (core team) startups TEAM on the Blueseed vessel and kick some Silicon Valley ass?
here is one ISP most cruise line company used
http://www.mcp.com/
http://www.harris.com/

[benjamindees]

FAQ Update

the fee seems huge for so little work...

Fees have been lowered to 0.3%.
On a 5 BTC ($25) contribution, the fee would be 0.015 BTC (8 cents).
On the total 40,000 BTC goal, the fee would be 120 BTC ($600).

verify the identities of those in charge

My identity is not hidden.

Five acres is very small.

If we can't manage to crowdfund a 5 acre island, we probably can't crowdfund anything larger.

considering that we're talking about glorified sandbars

This island is definitely not a glorified sandbar, as you can tell by the picture.

Not enough incentive

Contributors of 50 BTC or more will receive VIP invitations to an inaugural beach bash held on the island.  This will be a 3-5 day event combining partying and relaxation while sleeping under the stars and enjoying the warm weather and ocean breezes.

floating island...
...once ready I think we can churn out land for about 20$/m^2.

$20 / m^2 is equivalent to $400,000 for 5 acres or approximately 80,000 BTC.
Seasteads have to be rebuilt periodically as well.  Islands don't.

just buy an old ship.

The world's largest ship has a footprint of 5.8 acres and cost $1.2 billion to build, the equivalent of 25 times the entire Bitcoin economy.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

FAQ Update

the fee seems huge for so little work...

Fees have been lowered to 0.3%.
On a 5 BTC ($25) contribution, the fee would be 0.015 BTC (8 cents).
On the total 40,000 BTC goal, the fee would be 120 BTC ($600).

verify the identities of those in charge

My identity is not hidden.

Five acres is very small.

If we can't manage to crowdfund a 5 acre island, we probably can't crowdfund anything larger.

considering that we're talking about glorified sandbars

This island is definitely not a glorified sandbar, as you can tell by the picture.

Not enough incentive

Contributors of 50 BTC or more will receive VIP invitations to an inaugural beach bash held on the island.  This will be a 3-5 day event combining partying and relaxation while sleeping under the stars and enjoying the warm weather and ocean breezes.

floating island...
...once ready I think we can churn out land for about 20$/m^2.

$20 / m^2 is equivalent to $400,000 for 5 acres.
Seasteads have to be rebuilt periodically as well.  Islands don't.

just buy an old ship.

The world's largest ship has a footprint of 5.8 acres and cost $1.2 billion to build, the equivalent of 25 times the entire Bitcoin economy.

I do admire you for addressing the questions and concerns in a constructive manner. That said, I'd like to see this conversation continue, but time may be of the essence, for the island may be sold before ducks are in a row here.

~Bruno~

[benjamindees]

Two days remain.  It only takes a couple of hours to confirm a Bitcoin transaction.

I look forward to addressing all concerns.  But if you're expecting any major changes, don't hold your breath.

[ssaCEO]

Again, uh, what makes you think the Nicaraguan government would be friendly about this?


RE: Raising funds in USD, I think that would be more than possible; the value of the Bitcoin economy is much greater than the current value of Bitcoins in circulation.

[edd]

Not enough incentive

Contributors of 50 BTC or more will receive VIP invitations to an inaugural beach bash held on the island.  This will be a 3-5 day event combining partying and relaxation while sleeping under the stars and enjoying the warm weather and ocean breezes.

Wait, you're saying contributors get nothing unless they donate 50+ bitcoins and then they get an invitation to a party?

[JusticeForYou]

Can we have a 'little person', say: "De Plane, De Plane" ?

If this was international waters, you would probably get a lot of interest. What jurisdiction does it fall under?

[BadBear]

Not enough incentive

Contributors of 50 BTC or more will receive VIP invitations to an inaugural beach bash held on the island.  This will be a 3-5 day event combining partying and relaxation while sleeping under the stars and enjoying the warm weather and ocean breezes.

Wait, you're saying contributors get nothing unless they donate 50+ bitcoins and then they get an invitation to a party?

Of course not, you also get the honor of buying him an island.

[ssaCEO]

Of course not, you also get the honor of buying him an island.

what would it cost to buy him completely?

[Phinnaeus Gage]

So I think 40,000 BTC is a reasonable goal.

I've read through this thread once, but not sure if this link was posted.

http://www.privateislandsonline.com/cayo-iguana-nicaragua.htm

Region: Nicaragua, Central America
Price: US $575,000 

[Realpra]

$20 / m^2 is equivalent to $400,000 for 5 acres or approximately 80,000 BTC.
Seasteads have to be rebuilt periodically as well.  Islands don't.

Very true, even in my expensive expensive country you can get large areas of farm land for maybe 4$/m^2, deserted islands and deserts come at nickles.

However floating islands lets you get cheap real estate quite near huge cities, while too expensive for farming, housing and some industries are a definite possibility.

You can't really earn money or anything on a remote island - hence why its cheap!

If people are interested in this subject seasteading.org is all about it - sites pretty dead, little technological development hence my floathaven site.

just buy an old ship.

The world's largest ship has a footprint of 5.8 acres and cost $1.2 billion to build, the equivalent of 25 times the entire Bitcoin economy.

Notice how much I shaved off the price there?

A lot of our materials are actually cheaper than the 20$/m^2 we have to pay so if you scale up and have your own factory you could probably dump the price to near 4$ OR increase quality.

Of course you have to build stuff on top too - but for the right industry/place it can make sense.

[acoindr]

FAQ Update

the fee seems huge for so little work...

Fees have been lowered to 0.3%.
On a 5 BTC ($25) contribution, the fee would be 0.015 BTC (8 cents).
On the total 40,000 BTC goal, the fee would be 120 BTC ($600).

verify the identities of those in charge

My identity is not hidden.

Five acres is very small.

If we can't manage to crowdfund a 5 acre island, we probably can't crowdfund anything larger.

considering that we're talking about glorified sandbars

This island is definitely not a glorified sandbar, as you can tell by the picture.

Not enough incentive

Contributors of 50 BTC or more will receive VIP invitations to an inaugural beach bash held on the island.  This will be a 3-5 day event combining partying and relaxation while sleeping under the stars and enjoying the warm weather and ocean breezes.

floating island...
...once ready I think we can churn out land for about 20$/m^2.

$20 / m^2 is equivalent to $400,000 for 5 acres.
Seasteads have to be rebuilt periodically as well.  Islands don't.

just buy an old ship.

The world's largest ship has a footprint of 5.8 acres and cost $1.2 billion to build, the equivalent of 25 times the entire Bitcoin economy.

I do admire you for addressing the questions and concerns in a constructive manner. That said, I'd like to see this conversation continue, but time may be of the essence, for the island may be sold before ducks are in a row here.

~Bruno~

I don't think we've settled on two important preliminary questions: 1) is this (or any) island what we want/need? 2) Is an ebay auction the best way to buy an island?