The NSA created "CIA Project" Bitcoin - Gavin Bell (aka..Gavin Andresen in 2008)

[QuestionAuthority]

...
Whoever Satoshi was he didn't invent Bitcoin alone. It was a collaboration between Satoshi, Hal Finney and Ray Dillinger building on the previous work of Adam Back and others.

I wonder how much of it was derived from Hal's work on RPOW?

To bad we can't ask them. Two out of the three are gone. 

Well, you can ask Ray whatever you want. He's active here.

Assuming you're Ray Dillinger - is that conversation public anywhere? I don't recall reading it on http://www.mail-archive.com/cryptography%40metzdowd.com/msg10005.html

Uhh, I don't remember ever agreeing to keep it secret, but we didn't talk about it on the list either.  At that time Hal was elbows-deep in the transaction scripting code, and I was checking Satoshi's work on the crypto on the blockchain architecture.  

Finney had a lot to worry about with the transaction scripting and wound up blocking out about a dozen more opcodes than Satoshi had wanted to, but I found essentially nothing wrong with the block structure.  I am still freakin' amazed how tight he got that blockchain design.  

And, yeah, I'm Ray Dillinger.

Cool, I didn't know that. Thanks!

[odolvlobo]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tzmJ610YNOE

No evidence, just speculation.


http://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/classes/6.805/articles/money/nsamint/nsamint.htm

The document talks about an electronic cash system completely unlike Bitcoin. The idea of electronic cash has been around for decades.


http://ciaproject.org/projects/

No evidence, just speculation and tin-foil hats.


http://www.intelligence-world.org/tag/gavin-bell-gavin-andresen/

This page mentions the CIA Project group but has no other information.

[Billbags]

The government didn't create bitcoin. The cypherpunks created bitcoin in one way or another.

@ jonald_fyookball quote: "But it wasn't until Satoshi invented Bitcoin that it became possible".

*Actually, bitcoin didn't become possible until Hal Finney figured out his "RPOW” could be added on top of Adam Back’s “HashCash” to create the solution for the Byzantine General’s Problem which prevented systems like BitGold/Bitcoin from being a reality.

not that it really matters, but that makes it sound like Finney invented Bitcoin, not Satoshi.
Satoshi referend POW in his white paper first, did he not?

Whoever Satoshi was he didn't invent Bitcoin alone. It was a collaboration between Satoshi, Hal Finney and Ray Dillinger building on the previous work of Adam Back and others.

I wonder how much of it was derived from Hal's work on RPOW?

To bad we can't ask them. Two out of the three are gone.  

Szabo(he goes onto great detail about it), and apparently Satoshi, had figured out that Hal Finneys “RPOW” could be used to solve the Byzantine General’s Problem, a problem in ordinary computing that demonstrates through “game theory” how a group of potential co-operators can come to the best consensus even with the possibility of having malicious operators among them. This was the final piece to the BitGold/Bitcoin puzzle.

http://www.cs.cornell.edu/courses/cs614/2004sp/papers/lsp82.pdf

http://cryptome.org/rpow.htm

Szabo: "Nakamoto improved a significant security shortcoming that my design had, namely by requiring a proof-of-work to be a node in the Byzantine-resilient peer-to-peer system to lessen the threat of an untrustworthy party controlling the majority of nodes and thus corrupting a number of important security features".

[colinistheman]

Guys, I hate to break it to you but this entire thread was created by a shill poster for Dr Sol Adani, the guy who spams this forum.

The only reason he made the new account and posted this was to drive traffic to his website. I have seen him do this on many, many other bitcointalk threads.

[Billbags]

^ I did notice the op's username is a known cypherpunk pseudonym. He used to go conspiracy crazy on Dai and Szabo back in the mid 90's. I think his real name was Larry Detweiler. I'm glad I didn't press any of those links, I think I know that guy you're talking about.

[QuestionAuthority]

The government didn't create bitcoin. The cypherpunks created bitcoin in one way or another.

@ jonald_fyookball quote: "But it wasn't until Satoshi invented Bitcoin that it became possible".

*Actually, bitcoin didn't become possible until Hal Finney figured out his "RPOW” could be added on top of Adam Back’s “HashCash” to create the solution for the Byzantine General’s Problem which prevented systems like BitGold/Bitcoin from being a reality.

not that it really matters, but that makes it sound like Finney invented Bitcoin, not Satoshi.
Satoshi referend POW in his white paper first, did he not?

Whoever Satoshi was he didn't invent Bitcoin alone. It was a collaboration between Satoshi, Hal Finney and Ray Dillinger building on the previous work of Adam Back and others.

I wonder how much of it was derived from Hal's work on RPOW?

To bad we can't ask them. Two out of the three are gone. 

Szabo(he goes onto great detail about it), and apparently Satoshi, had figured out that Hal Finneys “RPOW” could be used to solve the Byzantine General’s Problem, a problem in ordinary computing that demonstrates through “game theory” how a group of potential co-operators can come to the best consensus even with the possibility of having malicious operators among them. This was the final piece to the BitGold/Bitcoin puzzle.

http://www.cs.cornell.edu/courses/cs614/2004sp/papers/lsp82.pdf

http://cryptome.org/rpow.htm

Fascinating, it makes sense that he would have used his prior experience as a building block for his work with Satoshi. He definitely built on the work of Adam Back.

It's kind of funny that Bitcoin is based in part on an email spam filter. lol

[Billbags]

@ QuestionAuthority

^ Ya, I searched a lot of that info here. Note: This does not name anyone as Satoshi in it, well it leans towards Szabo but nothing solid, it's mostly just a good timeline with good info. It has a lot of those key emails in it.

http://originalcontroltheory.tumblr.com/

[spooderman]

Let's see TOR was a NSA project (Naval Intelligence under NSA)

Most crypto think tanks and players have been funded by groups or projects that lead back to the NSA, whose job it is to be a central depository for crypto related ideas and development.

NSA most likely have insiders in any crypto related project and if Satoshi was a project, it doesn't really matter now.

It is the currency of the underground, drugs (often connected to CIA) and gambling (SEALS with Clubs is that a possble reference to Navy Seals or Naval Intelligence).

Unless you are doing huge numbers and hanging out in the USA I guess it doesn't matter if they can track who is really moving btc around.

Will they steal from wallets? I doubt it, their abilities are most likely just related to tracking movement if they have any involvement at all.

Who knows, maybe they are btc and using the dough for black ops projects.

As long as your own btc wallet is secure and the users keep coming into the network, the value is real.

All crypto related players and projects eventually lead back to intelligence org's IMO and they have back doors in Windows and most OS's now, so the spooks know who you are. Just read the Snowden doc's on how backdoored ECC is now. The spooks know everything, if you are outside the USA and not doing drugs, I doubt they will ever bother you over btc. No one has explained yet how Silk Road fell, his lawyer motioned for docs to show the original breach in TOR or BTC that led to him. No response yet, it may be the NSA.

So what if you're not doing anything major that is illegal.

It was a flaw in the website captcha.

No it wasn't. That's what they said, but I believe it's been rebutted by the defendants.

*unwatches thread*

[QuestionAuthority]

@ QuestionAuthority

^ Ya, I searched a lot of that info here. Note: This does not name anyone as Satoshi in it, well it leans towards Szabo but nothing solid, it's mostly just a good timeline with good info. It has a lot of those key emails in it.

http://originalcontroltheory.tumblr.com/

Nice. I always thought Szabo was probably Satoshi or working with the group calling itself Satoshi. The anonymity makes no sense to me if it is him.

[QuestionAuthority]

Let's see TOR was a NSA project (Naval Intelligence under NSA)

Most crypto think tanks and players have been funded by groups or projects that lead back to the NSA, whose job it is to be a central depository for crypto related ideas and development.

NSA most likely have insiders in any crypto related project and if Satoshi was a project, it doesn't really matter now.

It is the currency of the underground, drugs (often connected to CIA) and gambling (SEALS with Clubs is that a possble reference to Navy Seals or Naval Intelligence).

Unless you are doing huge numbers and hanging out in the USA I guess it doesn't matter if they can track who is really moving btc around.

Will they steal from wallets? I doubt it, their abilities are most likely just related to tracking movement if they have any involvement at all.

Who knows, maybe they are btc and using the dough for black ops projects.

As long as your own btc wallet is secure and the users keep coming into the network, the value is real.

All crypto related players and projects eventually lead back to intelligence org's IMO and they have back doors in Windows and most OS's now, so the spooks know who you are. Just read the Snowden doc's on how backdoored ECC is now. The spooks know everything, if you are outside the USA and not doing drugs, I doubt they will ever bother you over btc. No one has explained yet how Silk Road fell, his lawyer motioned for docs to show the original breach in TOR or BTC that led to him. No response yet, it may be the NSA.

So what if you're not doing anything major that is illegal.

It was a flaw in the website captcha.

No it wasn't. That's what they said, but I believe it's been rebutted by the defendants.

*unwatches thread*

It's highly likely that the captcha went out to the open web for info and this was used to pinpoint his IP. Then again it could have been alien involvement. Either way he's just as fucked because they caught him with all the incriminating evidence in his possession.

[2112]

Early Bitcoin code is written in utterly non-corporate style. Looks like a work of a scientist, not of some group of professional programmers. So, for me, it's quite unlikely that Bitcoin was funded and managed project.

I don't really disagree with the above. I just wanted to add that stylistically the code does resemble the work of a corporate consultant who was very experienced in padding billable hours and job security/contract security by writing idiosyncratic code.

In other words: it could be a "funded and managed project" where the staff was primarily interesting in maintaing the effective control over the code.

[Lauda]

This is ridiculous. Does it really matter if Satoshi made it, CIA made it, my mom made it, the aliens?
Exactly who invented money/cash? Nobody even cares about that. 

[mnmShadyBTC]

Let's see TOR was a NSA project (Naval Intelligence under NSA)

Most crypto think tanks and players have been funded by groups or projects that lead back to the NSA, whose job it is to be a central depository for crypto related ideas and development.

NSA most likely have insiders in any crypto related project and if Satoshi was a project, it doesn't really matter now.

It is the currency of the underground, drugs (often connected to CIA) and gambling (SEALS with Clubs is that a possble reference to Navy Seals or Naval Intelligence).

Unless you are doing huge numbers and hanging out in the USA I guess it doesn't matter if they can track who is really moving btc around.

Will they steal from wallets? I doubt it, their abilities are most likely just related to tracking movement if they have any involvement at all.

Who knows, maybe they are btc and using the dough for black ops projects.

As long as your own btc wallet is secure and the users keep coming into the network, the value is real.

All crypto related players and projects eventually lead back to intelligence org's IMO and they have back doors in Windows and most OS's now, so the spooks know who you are. Just read the Snowden doc's on how backdoored ECC is now. The spooks know everything, if you are outside the USA and not doing drugs, I doubt they will ever bother you over btc. No one has explained yet how Silk Road fell, his lawyer motioned for docs to show the original breach in TOR or BTC that led to him. No response yet, it may be the NSA.

So what if you're not doing anything major that is illegal.

It was a flaw in the website captcha.

No it wasn't. That's what they said, but I believe it's been rebutted by the defendants.

*unwatches thread*

It's highly likely that the captcha went out to the open web for info and this was used to pinpoint his IP. Then again it could have been alien involvement. Either way he's just as fucked because they caught him with all the incriminating evidence in his possession.

I have a feeling that it was slightly more advanced then when the FBI said in their declaration. Even if it was the captcha it was almost certainly more then someone manually entering manual letters in the captcha. Ross had people attempt to pentest SR for him (they at least did pentest it and reported back to him) and I find it hard to believe that this would not be previously discovered.

I also vaguely remember reading about someone saying something about a rumor about someone warning Ross about the IP of the VPN/VPS that he used to connect to SR's servers shortly before the FBI was able to get a warrant to search the VPS (I am pretty sure it was a VPS) and when the FBI was able to search the contents of it, the server had it's contents wiped clean

[franky1]

OP is sol adoni's number 500 sockpuppet..
... moving on

[QuestionAuthority]

Let's see TOR was a NSA project (Naval Intelligence under NSA)

Most crypto think tanks and players have been funded by groups or projects that lead back to the NSA, whose job it is to be a central depository for crypto related ideas and development.

NSA most likely have insiders in any crypto related project and if Satoshi was a project, it doesn't really matter now.

It is the currency of the underground, drugs (often connected to CIA) and gambling (SEALS with Clubs is that a possble reference to Navy Seals or Naval Intelligence).

Unless you are doing huge numbers and hanging out in the USA I guess it doesn't matter if they can track who is really moving btc around.

Will they steal from wallets? I doubt it, their abilities are most likely just related to tracking movement if they have any involvement at all.

Who knows, maybe they are btc and using the dough for black ops projects.

As long as your own btc wallet is secure and the users keep coming into the network, the value is real.

All crypto related players and projects eventually lead back to intelligence org's IMO and they have back doors in Windows and most OS's now, so the spooks know who you are. Just read the Snowden doc's on how backdoored ECC is now. The spooks know everything, if you are outside the USA and not doing drugs, I doubt they will ever bother you over btc. No one has explained yet how Silk Road fell, his lawyer motioned for docs to show the original breach in TOR or BTC that led to him. No response yet, it may be the NSA.

So what if you're not doing anything major that is illegal.

It was a flaw in the website captcha.

No it wasn't. That's what they said, but I believe it's been rebutted by the defendants.

*unwatches thread*

It's highly likely that the captcha went out to the open web for info and this was used to pinpoint his IP. Then again it could have been alien involvement. Either way he's just as fucked because they caught him with all the incriminating evidence in his possession.

I have a feeling that it was slightly more advanced then when the FBI said in their declaration. Even if it was the captcha it was almost certainly more then someone manually entering manual letters in the captcha. Ross had people attempt to pentest SR for him (they at least did pentest it and reported back to him) and I find it hard to believe that this would not be previously discovered.

I also vaguely remember reading about someone saying something about a rumor about someone warning Ross about the IP of the VPN/VPS that he used to connect to SR's servers shortly before the FBI was able to get a warrant to search the VPS (I am pretty sure it was a VPS) and when the FBI was able to search the contents of it, the server had it's contents wiped clean

I don't think it really matters. He's never going to see the light of day again.

http://www.wired.com/2014/10/silk-road-judge-technicality/

[sickpig]

Let's see TOR was a NSA project (Naval Intelligence under NSA)

Most crypto think tanks and players have been funded by groups or projects that lead back to the NSA, whose job it is to be a central depository for crypto related ideas and development.

NSA most likely have insiders in any crypto related project and if Satoshi was a project, it doesn't really matter now.

It is the currency of the underground, drugs (often connected to CIA) and gambling (SEALS with Clubs is that a possble reference to Navy Seals or Naval Intelligence).

Unless you are doing huge numbers and hanging out in the USA I guess it doesn't matter if they can track who is really moving btc around.

Will they steal from wallets? I doubt it, their abilities are most likely just related to tracking movement if they have any involvement at all.

Who knows, maybe they are btc and using the dough for black ops projects.

As long as your own btc wallet is secure and the users keep coming into the network, the value is real.

All crypto related players and projects eventually lead back to intelligence org's IMO and they have back doors in Windows and most OS's now, so the spooks know who you are. Just read the Snowden doc's on how backdoored ECC is now. The spooks know everything, if you are outside the USA and not doing drugs, I doubt they will ever bother you over btc. No one has explained yet how Silk Road fell, his lawyer motioned for docs to show the original breach in TOR or BTC that led to him. No response yet, it may be the NSA.

So what if you're not doing anything major that is illegal.

It was a flaw in the website captcha.

No it wasn't. That's what they said, but I believe it's been rebutted by the defendants.

*unwatches thread*

It's highly likely that the captcha went out to the open web for info and this was used to pinpoint his IP. Then again it could have been alien involvement. Either way he's just as fucked because they caught him with all the incriminating evidence in his possession.

Silk Road Lawyers Poke Holes in FBI’s Story

[Sophokles]

Tin foil hat OP of the day. Utter nonsense. Not worth further comment.

[testerx]

If it was really a CIA/NSA project then you'd think they'd be pushing congress to improve it's legal status so they could fund black projects with it more easily and working on ways of getting the value even higher so they could fund more projects with it.

[Chris_Sabian]

Bitcoin is not a CIA/NSA/FBI project.  All of those have access to tens of billions per year.  Bitcoin after 5 years is worth ~$5 billion.

[RodeoX]

Jesus Christ people are gullible.