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Question: Which statement is true
Bitcoin is democratic - 31 (23.5%)
Bitcoin is not democratic - 39 (29.5%)
Bitcoin is neither democratic nor nondemocratic - 30 (22.7%)
Bitcoin is both democratic and nondemocratic - 10 (7.6%)
It depends on what the definition of "is" is. - 22 (16.7%)
Total Voters: 131

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Author Topic: Is bitcoin democratic?  (Read 7589 times)
Portnoy
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May 17, 2012, 05:19:08 PM
 #1

 Huh

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kiba
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May 17, 2012, 05:33:15 PM
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It's certainly not democratic. People don't vote. People do consenus or start their own network.

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May 17, 2012, 05:47:03 PM
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IT's a difficult question to answer, because too many people have different ideas of what 'democratic' actually means.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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May 17, 2012, 05:49:01 PM
 #4

What bitcoin is: honest, strict, free of coercion, voluntary, regulated by market consumers (a free market), sovereign, without entitlement of equality between users ect.

What bitcoin isn't: democratic, a government, being governed by people, promoting equality of any kind

Quote
democratic [dem-uh-krat-ik]     Origin http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/democratic
dem·o·crat·ic   [dem-uh-krat-ik]
adjective
1. pertaining to or of the nature of democracy or a democracy.
2. pertaining to or characterized by the principle of political or social equality for all: democratic treatment.
3. advocating or upholding democracy.
4. (initial capital letter) Politics.
a. of, pertaining to, or characteristic of the Democratic party.
b. of, pertaining to, or belonging to the Democratic-Republican party.

dem·o·crat·ic  (dm-krtk) http://www.thefreedictionary.com/democratic
adj.
1. Of, characterized by, or advocating democracy: democratic government; a democratic union.
2. Of or for the people in general; popular: a democratic movement; democratic art forms.
3. Believing in or practicing social equality: "a proper democratic scorn for bloated dukes and lords" (George du Maurier).
4. Democratic Of, relating to, or characteristic of the Democratic Party.

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May 17, 2012, 05:49:16 PM
 #5

It's certainly not democratic. People don't vote. People do consenus or start their own network.

Could not the very fact of  [voluntary] participation be seen as something like a vote in favor of that particular system over another system in which the person could also choose to support, through their participation, if they chose?

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May 17, 2012, 05:50:59 PM
 #6

IT's a difficult question to answer, because too many people have different ideas of what 'democratic' actually means.

Really? Many people?  Has G.W. Bush and the neocons screwed up the English language that much that people don't know what is what?    Undecided

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May 17, 2012, 05:52:39 PM
 #7

hazek, this applies to Bitcoin:

Quote
2. pertaining to or characterized by the principle of political or social equality for all: democratic treatment.

Quote
2. Of or for the people in general; popular: a democratic movement; democratic art forms.

As always, the libertards and aspergers in here are working hard to alienate the public from Bitcoin by making it a fringe movement. This IS what people think democratic is (and also what I think it is), and if you are too stubborn to deal with it, then leave it be.

"Bitcoin had been transformed from an anarachistic challenge to the financial status quo, to the crypto spawn of Satan, fuelled by cut-throat greed and delusions of avarice." - MatTheCat
"these people don't seem to want to stop till Bitcoin is completely destroyed and left like an old cum rag in the corner of the room." - ShroomsKit
hazek
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May 17, 2012, 05:53:42 PM
 #8

It's certainly not democratic. People don't vote. People do consenus or start their own network.

Could not the very fact of  [voluntary] participation be seen as something like a vote in favor of that particular system over another system in which the person could also choose to support, through their participation, if they chose?

That's anarchism or voluntarism or a society with some voluntary but mandatory and consistent rules, not a democracy. A democracy is 51% telling 49% what can or can't they do.

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hazek
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May 17, 2012, 05:54:24 PM
 #9

hazek, this applies to Bitcoin:

Quote
2. pertaining to or characterized by the principle of political or social equality for all: democratic treatment.

Quote
2. Of or for the people in general; popular: a democratic movement; democratic art forms.

As always, the libertards and aspergers in here are working hard to alienate the public from Bitcoin by making it a fringe movement. This IS what people think democratic is (and also what I think it is), and if you are too stubborn to deal with it, then leave it be.

Show me evidence of socio economic or political equality promoted by Bitcoin?

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Portnoy
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May 17, 2012, 06:03:50 PM
 #10

It's certainly not democratic. People don't vote. People do consenus or start their own network.

Could not the very fact of  [voluntary] participation be seen as something like a vote in favor of that particular system over another system in which the person could also choose to support, through their participation, if they chose?

That's anarchism or voluntarism or a society with some voluntary but mandatory and consistent rules, not a democracy.

Anarchism and those others things can very well be democratic. One of the best ideals of many forms of anarchism, imo, is the concept of voluntary association, which is very democratic.


Quote
A democracy is 51% telling 49% what can or can't they do.

That is just one specific form "a" democracy can take. Just one form that does not define all possible forms. 


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May 17, 2012, 06:04:23 PM
 #11

hazek, I’m not even going to argue with you since you are completely detached from the public and display no empathy. All you want to do is nitpick because you perceive democracy as BAD BAD BAD. Cry Is this some new kind of libertarian political correctness?

Well, too bad most people approve of democracy. They will feel alienated if you describe Bitcoin as NOT democratic. If you want to just stagnate with this current circlejerk, I guess that’s okay though.

What I and many other people think democratic describes is fairness, openness/transparency, equal rights, equal vote etc.

I can guarantee you that advertising Bitcoin as non-democratic is one of the worst marketing strategies ever.

"Bitcoin had been transformed from an anarachistic challenge to the financial status quo, to the crypto spawn of Satan, fuelled by cut-throat greed and delusions of avarice." - MatTheCat
"these people don't seem to want to stop till Bitcoin is completely destroyed and left like an old cum rag in the corner of the room." - ShroomsKit
Portnoy
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May 17, 2012, 06:07:08 PM
 #12

hazek, this applies to Bitcoin:

Quote
2. pertaining to or characterized by the principle of political or social equality for all: democratic treatment.

Quote
2. Of or for the people in general; popular: a democratic movement; democratic art forms.

As always, the libertards and aspergers in here are working hard to alienate the public from Bitcoin by making it a fringe movement. This IS what people think democratic is (and also what I think it is), and if you are too stubborn to deal with it, then leave it be.

Show me evidence of socio economic or political equality promoted by Bitcoin?

That is just one specific form "a" democracy can take. Just one form that does not define all possible forms.

You know they put those numbers in front of those definitions in dictionaries to show that a word can have multiple definitions.
Not all of them apply in all uses of the word.   Wink

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May 17, 2012, 06:08:15 PM
 #13

hazek, I’m not even going to argue with you since you are completely detached from the public and display no empathy. All you want to do is nitpick because you perceive democracy as BAD BAD BAD. Cry Is this some new kind of libertarian political correctness?

Well, too bad most people approve of democracy. They will feel alienated if you describe Bitcoin as NOT democratic. If you want to just stagnate with this current circlejerk, I guess that’s okay though.

What I and many other people think democratic describes is fairness, openness/transparency, equal rights, equal vote etc.

I can guarantee you that advertising Bitcoin as non-democratic is one of the worst marketing strategies ever.

+1

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May 17, 2012, 06:11:26 PM
 #14

Actually, I forgot two important things commonly associated with "democratic": Free speech and human rights.

Opposing democracy implies Bitcoin is against all these things, that’s why I think it is a bad marketing strategy.

"Bitcoin had been transformed from an anarachistic challenge to the financial status quo, to the crypto spawn of Satan, fuelled by cut-throat greed and delusions of avarice." - MatTheCat
"these people don't seem to want to stop till Bitcoin is completely destroyed and left like an old cum rag in the corner of the room." - ShroomsKit
hazek
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May 17, 2012, 06:13:09 PM
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That is just one specific form "a" democracy can take. Just one form that does not define all possible forms.

You know they put those numbers in front of those definitions in dictionaries to show that a word can have multiple definitions.
Not all of them apply in all uses of the word.   Wink

Listen to yourself. You're telling me that Bitcoin is democratic, it just isn't democratic as we know what being democratic means in the real world.

It's like saying my bike is blue, it just isn't blue as we all see the color blue.

Can you see how little sense you make?

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May 17, 2012, 06:19:27 PM
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hazek, I’m not even going to argue with you since you are completely detached from the public and display no empathy. All you want to do is nitpick because you perceive democracy as BAD BAD BAD. Cry Is this some new kind of libertarian political correctness?

Well, too bad most people approve of democracy. They will feel alienated if you describe Bitcoin as NOT democratic. If you want to just stagnate with this current circlejerk, I guess that’s okay though.

What I and many other people think democratic describes is fairness, openness/transparency, equal rights, equal vote etc.

I can guarantee you that advertising Bitcoin as non-democratic is one of the worst marketing strategies ever.

First, yes I'm am extremely detached from herd mentality, read my signature. I want to nitpick because it is in my nature to combat propaganda BS anywhere I can because I know the damage and suffering it can and does cause.

Second most people are idiots. I don't care about what most people approve off, if I did, I wouldn't be supporting Bitcoin.

Third I think I'm doing quite well marketing Bitcoin because I focus on it's real properties instead of some delusions, if you don't believe me watch my video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClLbv1yisG4
I don't need any pretense of "fairness, equal rights, equal vote etc." to promote and display Bitcoin as extremely attractive, thank you very much. And if someone did approach me with asking whether or not Bitcoin is democratic I would answer: It's something much much better, it's honest, strict, free of coercion, voluntary, regulated by market consumers (a free market), sovereign, without an enforced entitlement of equality between users ect.

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May 17, 2012, 06:23:07 PM
 #17

I don't always agree with Blitz but in this particular case I do agree. Same thing for hazek, I usually agree but not in this case.

Bitcoin in my mind is definitely democratic, in the sense of what democracy is supposed to be. What we have in governments is not what I think of as democracy. This applies to many that could be sympathetic to Bitcoin. Calling Bitcoin anti-democratic would be pretty much the stupidest thing one could POSSIBLY do. That will alienate 100 times more people than it invites.

I don't see what isn't democratic about the Bitcoin network, you acquire the support of majority hashing power and the minority has the choice to just follow or start their own network. That is well, democracy in such a clear way that I couldn't even think of a better example of real democracy.

So, not only is calling Bitcoin non-democratic idiotic, it is absolutely false as well. Calling it anti-government or non-political is much more accurate. Democracy is a term that has wider meanings than those that refer to governmental politics.

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May 17, 2012, 06:23:39 PM
 #18

I have watched your videos and I like them.

If you do not intend to advertise it as "non-democratic", I don’t care. Everyone can describe it as he wants. I bet you the democratic label is going to stick with Bitcoin as time passes, though, whether we want it or not.

edit:

Just because I think the transaction count is a completely meaningless and manipulatable metric, Technomage? Grin

"Bitcoin had been transformed from an anarachistic challenge to the financial status quo, to the crypto spawn of Satan, fuelled by cut-throat greed and delusions of avarice." - MatTheCat
"these people don't seem to want to stop till Bitcoin is completely destroyed and left like an old cum rag in the corner of the room." - ShroomsKit
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May 17, 2012, 06:26:25 PM
 #19

It's certainly not democratic. People don't vote. People do consenus or start their own network.

Could not the very fact of  [voluntary] participation be seen as something like a vote in favor of that particular system over another system in which the person could also choose to support, through their participation, if they chose?

First of all, the project itself can be democratic in nature, while the job that the software does is not.

As far as the project goes-- we'll see how democratic the Bitcoin dev project is once a serious altcoin with new or different features (i.e., not a scamcoin) comes onto the scene (which from some messages on this board looks like it should be soon)-- that is, whether any of the devs take action with their hashing power to stop the altcoin from developing.  Although I guess an argument could be made that a serious altcoin would take precautions so that it couldn't be driven into the ground at the outset.

As far as the job that the software does-- for all Bitcoin's technical details it still boils down to one-dollar-one-vote, and that most certainly is not democratic.
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May 17, 2012, 06:28:18 PM
 #20

The economy that was born from Bitcoin has certainly nothing to do with democracy, nor does the monetary model it uses. The technology itself, the network, that however is extremely democratic.

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