[ANN] New AML Policy for all Dwolla users.

[Trader Steve]

Hmm...isn't this why many folks got into bitcoin in the first place? To get away from these stupid currencies and the strings attached? Just sayin'.

More reason to develop your own independent network of trusted trading partners so you can stay "off exchange".

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[Stephen Gornick]

We're working on a solution right now to enable customers of MtGox to get a check, wire, or local ACH withdrawal.

Awesome!

Just got an e-mail from Dwolla "We need to verify your identity!":
 - http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=84108.0

[Yankee (BitInstant)]

We're working on a solution right now to enable customers of MtGox to get a check, wire, or local ACH withdrawal.

Awesome!

Just got an e-mail from Dwolla "We need to verify your identity!":
 - http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=84108.0

Damn Dwolla!

Hang in there boys, we're working as fast as possible

[rjk]

We're working on a solution right now to enable customers of MtGox to get a check, wire, or local ACH withdrawal.

Awesome!

Just got an e-mail from Dwolla "We need to verify your identity!":
 - http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=84108.0

Me too, and I didn't even use an exchange!

Fucking hell.

[mrich8]

This is bullshit.

I was not notified of this new policy properly. I never read this thread until today. Nowhere on several Mt. Gox pages that I checked JUST NOW indicated this new policy. All of these pages have been printed out with date and time marked as proof.

Yesterday I sent $100 Dwolla Instant to Mt. Gox. It didn't show up in several hours so I opened a ticket. These stupid dense morons keep parroting the same press release URL in every ticket reply.

EXCEPT NOWHERE IN THE NORMAL COURSE OF LOGGING IN AND INITIATING A DWOLLA DEPOSIT, IS THIS POLICY MENTIONED.

They are refusing to even REFUND/REJECT the payment without these so called "AML" documents. It looks like I will just completely abandon my Dwolla account after sending them a long explanation as to why I am doing this without repayment of the instant balance, including blocking any attempts of them to withdrawal from my bank account.

By this point it is not so much even the requirements of the documents WERE I NOTIFIED BEFORE MAKING A DEPOSIT. Now it's a matter of principal. I don't put up with bait and switch bullshit.

Mt. Gox needs to make this right. Users were NOT PROPERLY NOTIFIED. A large, prominent notice on the page with Dwolla deposit information should have been there 2 weeks ago. My dated printout of this page proves the policy is not mentioned WHATSOEVER.

EDIT: Not to mention Dwolla essentially offers me CREDIT without so much information as Mt. Gox is wanting. I got a $3500 BarclayCard last week without so much information as Mt. Gox is wanting.

[BkkCoins]

BitCoin is becoming less and less useful with stuff like this. I used to be able to get my measly $35/month mining profits out via Dwolla. Now I can't even do that and due to my location here it's impossible to get "Verified". No utility bills in my name.

With these constant changes in policy BitCoin has become a circus act that I'm no longer interested in watching. I'll be selling off my small mining gear and leaving it all behind.

[mrich8]

Mt Gox is no longer replying to my tickets. I call boycott.

[Stephen Gornick]

BitCoin is becoming less and less useful with stuff like this. I used to be able to get my measly $35/month mining profits out via Dwolla. Now I can't even do that and due to my location here it's impossible to get "Verified". No utility bills in my name.

With these constant changes in policy BitCoin has become a circus act that I'm no longer interested in watching. I'll be selling off my small mining gear and leaving it all behind.

Well, Bitcoin doesn't exist for just for providing a revenue stream for miners, it exists to be a payment system that solves the exact problem that is causing you frustration.

Dwolla may be out of the picture for you, but there are other options.  CampBX and BitFloor both allow ACH withdrawal.  BitInstant is going to be adding that at some point in the future. 

There are other methods for cashing out.

 - http://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Selling_bitcoins
 - http://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Trade

[fcmatt]

It appears I do not have a verified account at MTGOX.
Yet when I goto the withdraw funds area, select my newly created withdraw method of "dwolla" which I did last week,
it still seems to allow it to function.

Yet I imagine if I tried to use it my funds would be stuck in some sort of limbo?

I do not read these forums as much as I used to yet I cannot seem to find mention of this
change on mtgox.com. Nor does the home page of support.mtgox.com seem to mention it.
The last update on that page is Apr 27th, 2012.

I guess I could upload my photo ID but I would rather not. What annoys me more is that
if I did not read this thread I would never have known. Sigh.

[Stephen Gornick]

It appears I do not have a verified account at MTGOX.
Yet when I goto the withdraw funds area, select my newly created withdraw method of "dwolla" which I did last week,
it still seems to allow it to function.

The "must have a verified Mt. Gox account" requirement newly imposed by Mt. Gox  is for transferring funds from Dwolla to Mt. Gox.  They also might require an account to be verified for other reasons, including from where you've accessed the exchange (e.g., using Tor or a shared, public access point), amount of the transfer (e.g., over $1K USD in a single day or monthly limits being hit). 

Even if you do enter a withdrawal order, Mt. Gox is not able to accommodate demand for withdrawals, so before they will actually do the Dwolla Account to Account (A2A) transfer, there will be a delay of like 6 days.  And then, it now appears that Dwolla will not allow you to withdraw to your bank (or any other transaction) until you've verified your Dwolla account as they too now seem to be requiring photo ID.

tl;dr: There are more convenient options out there.   Both BitFloor and CampBX will do ACH withdrawals direct to your bank.  BitInstant will be offering that soon as well.

[fcmatt]

It appears I do not have a verified account at MTGOX.
Yet when I goto the withdraw funds area, select my newly created withdraw method of "dwolla" which I did last week,
it still seems to allow it to function.

The "must have a verified Mt. Gox account" requirement newly imposed by Mt. Gox  is for transferring funds from Dwolla to Mt. Gox.  They also might require an account to be verified for other reasons, including from where you've accessed the exchange (e.g., using Tor or a shared, public access point), amount of the transfer (e.g., over $1K USD in a single day or monthly limits being hit). 

Even if you do enter a withdrawal order, Mt. Gox is not able to accommodate demand for withdrawals, so before they will actually do the Dwolla Account to Account (A2A) transfer, there will be a delay of like 6 days.  And then, it now appears that Dwolla will not allow you to withdraw to your bank (or any other transaction) until you've verified your Dwolla account as they too now seem to be requiring photo ID.

tl;dr: There are more convenient options out there.   Both BitFloor and CampBX will do ACH withdrawals direct to your bank.  BitInstant will be offering that soon as well.

Interest post. Thanks. I read the first post of this thread to mean dwolla to mtgox OR mtgox to dwolla.
I do not mind the delay. I am pretty used to it "now days".
As for dwolla requiring ID to withdraw to my bank account.. i did a withdraw just last week and it arrived fine.
How do I verify if I require dwolla verificiation? Is not proving I own the checking account enough with them when I first started up?

Confusing to say the least. Dwolla's web interface just keeps getting worse to boot. Social crap all over it now.

[Steve]

tl;dr: There are more convenient options out there.   Both BitFloor and CampBX will do ACH withdrawals direct to your bank.  BitInstant will be offering that soon as well.

Over the last few weeks, it's been consistently cheaper to buy bitcoins from either bitfloor or campbx.  I expect this situation will persist due to the difficulty of getting dollars out of mtgox (people will demand a premium for selling bitcoins at mtgox).

[DeathAndTaxes]

As for dwolla requiring ID to withdraw to my bank account.. i did a withdraw just last week and it arrived fine.
How do I verify if I require dwolla verificiation? Is not proving I own the checking account enough with them when I first started up?

You won't know until you get a "happy email from Dwolla" (search forum for Dwolla AML email).  If you hit some magic amount from certain counterparties then Dwolla will indicate you need to perform verification (photo ID).

[Stephen Gornick]

As for dwolla requiring ID to withdraw to my bank account.. i did a withdraw just last week and it arrived fine.
How do I verify if I require dwolla verificiation? Is not proving I own the checking account enough with them when I first started up?

You won't know until you get a "happy email from Dwolla" (search forum for Dwolla AML email). 

Here's the message that they're sending out.  After being flagged, a photo ID is required to get verified.

 - http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=84108.0

If you hit some magic amount from certain counterparties then Dwolla will indicate you need to perform verification (photo ID).

That is what appears to be common denominator ... accepting Dwolla from exchanges or other bitcoiners will make it more likely that you will get flagged.  Dwolla is less aggressive for smaller amounts (e.g., under a couple hundred perhaps)?

[fcmatt]

Thanks folks for the info. I normally stay under 150 dollars so perhaps that is why I am
not getting nailed with the email yet. I am pretty consistent about my transfers too due
to mining. Good to know.

[repentance]

Is not proving I own the checking account enough with them when I first started up?

This seems to confuse a lot of people.  When you first open an account with any kind of financial services provider, your risk level is assessed.  The extent to which you're required to verify at the outset depends on that initial assessment.  So, yeah - verifying that you control the account from which funds originate might be enough for you to successfully open an account with a payment processor (all that is meant to prove is that you're not funding your new account through unauthorised access to someone else's account) - although it's rarely sufficient for you to open an account with a bank or a credit union.

Your risk level isn't a static thing, though.  It can change with how you use the account and Ongoing Customer Due Diligence and Enhanced Know Your Customer requirements mean that if the way you use the account indicates an increased fraud/AML/CFT risk a financial service provider is required to obtain more information about you, the source of your funds, and the destination of your funds.  There are many types of transactions which increase the risk level of a given account and what makes them high risk might not be your personal actions but the nature of the businesses with which you're dealing, the geographic source or destination of funds, and a heap of other things which flag a transaction as "suspicious".

Some institutions require a higher level of verification from everyone when opening an account so that they're not constantly having to suspend accounts all the time, but even if you have fully verified at a high level you can be asked to do so again at any time.

Because Bitcoin exchanges and payment processors move large amounts of funds through the banking system and operate a service which is inherently high risk in terms of fraud, money laundering, and terrorism financing, financial institutions impose on them strict KYC requirements.  While they could use financial institutions in countries which are less AML/CFT compliant, that carries its own risks and would also likely slow down the processing of payments - it would work only if those funds never need to be returned to the financial systems of more compliant countries.

[mrich8]

Since I used Dwolla instant, no money was actually taken from my checking, I have instructed the bank to deny ALL Dwolla withdrawal attempts for 6 months. I WILL NOT BE RIPPED OFF $100 AND I DONT CARE WHO LOSES.

If anyone wants to trade with me PayPal, BofA, PopMoney, or MoneyPak for $100 worth of bitcoins please send a PM to me.

[Garr255]

Since I used Dwolla instant, no money was actually taken from my checking, I have instructed the bank to deny ALL Dwolla withdrawal attempts for 6 months. I WILL NOT BE RIPPED OFF $100 AND I DONT CARE WHO LOSES.

If anyone wants to trade with me PayPal, BofA, PopMoney, or MoneyPak for $100 worth of bitcoins please send a PM to me.

PM sent.

[shockD]

In the short term this seems to be good news for CampBX. AFAIK they don't have any such restrictions on withdrawals, can anyone confirm?

[mrich8]

This was an attempt to make a deposit BTW, into Mt. Gox to purchase additional coins to supplement my small mining farm. I sent them $100 via Dwolla. Because they did NOT PROPERLY NOTIFY ME of the new changes, they have kept the $100 payment in limbo until I send them a picture of my penis and whatever other invasive bullshit they're demanding.

Essentially THEY HAVE STOLEN $100. Because it was Dwolla Instant Payment, which I qualified for due to good credit score, and Dwolla refuse to dispute the transaction because it is for "virtual currency", I told my bank to block any attempts of Dwolla to withdrawal from my account, and essentially told Dwolla if they want paid they need to reverse from Mt. Gox, because I will not be screwed out of my hard earned money.

So I did not actually lose any money but I can't use Mt Gox or Dwolla any more