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Author Topic: Bitcoinica stolen coin returns  (Read 12199 times)
malevolent
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May 20, 2012, 09:38:06 PM
 #41

Looking at the amounts of coins people got he didn't want to get rid of most of the money but to make sure more people have tainted coins.
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FreeMoney
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May 20, 2012, 10:45:52 PM
 #42

Why does it matter if you give the tainted coins back instead of whichever your client sends? What is Bitcoinica going to be able to do to untaint them anyway?

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May 20, 2012, 10:48:37 PM
 #43

Why is nobody addressing the real elephant in the room? Any time somebody purchases Bitcoins with fiat money they are doing so with tainted money.

Let it go. Move on to something more productive in the world of Bitcoin.

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May 20, 2012, 10:52:17 PM
 #44

Why is nobody addressing the real elephant in the room? Any time somebody purchases Bitcoins with fiat money they are doing so with tainted money.

Let it go. Move on to something more productive in the world of Bitcoin.

Heh yeah.

Not just when you buy bitcoins either.

And the biggest criminals use the freshest dollars!

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May 20, 2012, 11:04:59 PM
 #45

Approximately, how many coins were sent by the hacker? My thinking is that if it was only a handful, then BitcoiniaHacker is just a troll, doing it for the lolz.

~Bruno~
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May 21, 2012, 12:53:24 AM
 #46

I was on at the time and went through logs afterwards.
There was about 32 transactions. The first was for 5btc after that the rest seemed to be for 1.x. (Allthough I did only check 10 or so,  but those 10 were all 1.x so i assume the rest where aswell).
Going on those figures I imagine only 40-50BTC were given. Not like it was 18k worth like I have seen people think in other threads..

*edit* I best not say anything..... now that the "police" might/will? be involved..............

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May 21, 2012, 12:56:35 AM
 #47

Hahaha what a mess, the developers trying to return specific coins using hacky patches.
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May 21, 2012, 01:14:59 AM
 #48

Hahaha what a mess, the developers trying to return specific coins using hacky patches.

Hahaha what a mess, scammy forum trolls making comments about something they are totally ignorant of.

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May 21, 2012, 01:17:50 AM
 #49

Hahaha what a mess, the developers trying to return specific coins using hacky patches.

Hahaha what a mess, scammy forum trolls making comments about something they are totally ignorant of.
Sorry for rustling your jimmies, developer of hacky widely-criticized no-fee patch.
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May 21, 2012, 01:36:15 AM
 #50

Hahaha what a mess, the developers trying to return specific coins using hacky patches.

What is this about?

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May 21, 2012, 09:37:35 AM
 #51

Hahaha what a mess, the developers trying to return specific coins using hacky patches.

What is this about?

Trolling Wink
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May 21, 2012, 12:16:38 PM
 #52

So would it be reasonable for anybody lucky enough to receive refunds from Bitcoinica, via Luke-Jr's recovery of stolen coins operation from those handed out by BitcoinicaHacker, to request that they be suitably mixed first, e.g. http://www.bitcoinfog.com/
 .... since those coins that were once "tainted" are now no longer "tainted" having been returned to their original owners, albeit via many entity's addresses and sundry circuitous routes? Is it legitimate to "untaint" your own previously held coins "tainted" by the baddies?

Enquiring minds are wondering.


What about we stop with this tainted coin bullshit?
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May 21, 2012, 12:52:12 PM
 #53

What about we stop with this tainted coin bullshit?

The sad reality is most people are afraid of freedom.  Freedom is scary.  They may talk about freedom, and being free of the man but the first time something happens (they lose coins) they suddenly don't want freedom.  Tainted coin registry is all about control.  The "Oh Noes someone got coins they don't deserve WE need to stop them". Honestly it is just one step above chargebacks.  I mean if a thief steals 18K from 1 person we should block that via tainted coin registry?  What if a scammer steals 18 coins from 1000 people?  Why not just implement chargebacks into the protocol to get rid of the need for a taint registry with millions of coins and thousands of participants.

[/b]The cowards who can't handle the freedom that Bitcoin represents (and the risk that comes with it) are the single greatest threat to Bitcoin.[/b]

Tainted coins devalue all coins even the untainted ones.  I sell wireless pincodes for Bitcoins.  I would imagine the "cash like" nature of pincodes would make it an attractive option for someone looking to unload coins.  What if the thief buys some with tainted coins?  I should take the loss?  I should follow the thread of every irresponsible idiot who lost their coins and block orders involving them in realtime?  What about in the case of "false claims"?  What about cases where the theft is reported AFTER I accept the coins?  Can no-one see that makes businesses less likely to accept Bitcoin.  It makes them even MORE risky.

"Bitcoin: no chargebacks ever*"
* except if you accept coins through no fault of your own which someone else later reports as stolen with no proof due to their own incompetence, in which case you take the full loss for their irresponsibility.

I think the "tainters" are failing to consider one question:
If I can take a full loss using Bitcoin, and if I need to pay for the processing cost of checking for "bad coins", and if I need to subsidize the irresponsible and pass those costs on to my consumers .... why should I use Bitcoin?  Paypal/CC works just fine under those constraints.

Even if I "could" block tainted coins that would incur a cost.  That cost is passed on to legit users.  The responsible subsidizing the irresponsible.  No different than credit cards and chargebacks.  No sir.  The day one of my coins get blocked at an exchange because of a tainted coin registry is the day I am done with Bitcoin and will support (at least monetarily) the development of an alt-coin (double blinding signing) which makes such registries more such lunacy more difficult to implement.
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May 21, 2012, 12:59:59 PM
 #54

As much as it pains me to admit I think this idea of tainted coins will lead bitcoin to it's death.
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May 21, 2012, 01:04:03 PM
 #55

As much as it pains me to admit I think this idea of tainted coins will lead bitcoin to it's death.

Why would you think that?

Any time somebody purchases Bitcoins with fiat money they are doing so with tainted money.
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May 21, 2012, 01:19:41 PM
 #56

Yeah but with fiat there is no way to check all the past transactions. Also with fiat money you don't have a government made up of luke and his friends that launch crusades against tainted coins

What this remind me is exactly that: the government. Retarded ideas to face problems. The real government do that, and the same happens here. These "lords" of bitcoin come here and tell us what to do or "you will face conseguences". Real government all over again.
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May 21, 2012, 01:21:51 PM
 #57

Yeah but with fiat there is no way to check all the past transactions. Also with fiat money you don't have a government made up of luke and his friends that launch crusades against tainted coins
Most of all you can't look at a serial of 100 dollar bill and say "sorry mate but I won't accept it. I will take it from you however, but you still owe me 100$.".
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May 21, 2012, 01:23:19 PM
 #58

It takes so much effort. With bitcoin you just open blockexplorer and copy-paste addresses.

Anyway, i am not saying stealing coins is right. What i'm saying is that this whole "tainted coin" thing and how the things are being handled is EPIC FAIL
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May 21, 2012, 01:34:26 PM
 #59

Also with fiat money you don't have a government made up of luke and his friends that launch crusades against tainted coins
I think I need to clarify my position here:
  • Coins that have theft in their history ("tainted coins") shouldn't be taken out of circulation
  • People who knowingly accepted coins they know came from a computer break-in and fraud ("stolen coins") should return them
  • People who knowingly accept stolen coins and insist they are their own are guilty themselves to some degree
  • I never demanded people return the coins to Bitcoinica or the address I created for them. I politely asked and made it easy for honest people to do so
  • I don't have the authority to prosecute people who don't return stolen coins, or even the original criminal
  • Tainted coins should be flagged as such, using arbitrary algorithms, for the purposes of finding the criminal (Edit: I don't mean to imply organizations are obliged to go to effort to do this, but that it is of valid use for investigation)
  • MtGox and other service providers are justified in requiring additional verification before making withdrawls, if you have deposited a significant amount of tainted coins
  • The government does have the authority to investigate and prosecute these cases
  • Everyone with information on these cases should cooperate with law enforcement's investigation
  • Even confidential information on these cases should be shared with law enforcement after they have followed due process for their jurisdiction

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May 21, 2012, 01:37:51 PM
 #60

How did Bitcoinica proved that the 18500 BTC transaction came from one of their addresses?
Did they sign a message with the address private key so that everyone can confirm it's really their address?
Blockchain.info links are not proof enough.

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