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Author Topic: Opting out of Social Security  (Read 6787 times)
jfreak53
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May 20, 2012, 06:40:50 PM
 #1

I get a lot of income from overseas, and as much I think I should be allowed to Opt-Out of Social Security and receive a return of all I have paid in, even if it's a rollover to a Roth IRA of my choice. It's my cash and I hate it that the Government gets to force me to invest in Social Security, I should have the choice.

Sign this petition, let's see if it works:
https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions/!/petition/allow-citizens-opt-out-social-security-taxes-and-return-them-all-money-paid-upon-opt-out/KLcN0850

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -Benjamin Franklin 1755
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May 22, 2012, 07:10:42 PM
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Why don't you just keep paying it so that those not as fortunate as you will have a little bit of something when they can no longer work?

Do you know the basic principle of insurance? Some people mistakenly believe it's so that over time, the amount of insurance premiums you pay will on average equal the amount you might need to cover that rare accident you have. But that's not right. It's so that the few (we don't know who they will be) will be able to deal with that $100,000 claim. It might be you one day.

When you're twenty, nobody knows where you'll be when you're 70. If you're wealthy, great. If not, then at least you'll have a little something from social security.

Do you know how to smooth your equity curve from investing? The method is called diversification. It might be diversification into different assets, or diversification of different investing strategies. The point is to smooth the equity curve, which reduces risk. Social security is a smoothing function, applied in aggregate, to the country's citizens' retirement income.

You may not know this (I suspect you don't), but if there were enough individuals like you who could opt out of social security, then there would probably be a lot of economic problems revolving around the older generation. Actually, I don't just suspect you don't know that. It's blatantly obvious from your post that you don't.
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May 23, 2012, 03:42:45 PM
 #3

Why don't you just keep paying it so that those not as fortunate as you will have a little bit of something when they can no longer work?

Do you know the basic principle of insurance? Some people mistakenly believe it's so that over time, the amount of insurance premiums you pay will on average equal the amount you might need to cover that rare accident you have. But that's not right. It's so that the few (we don't know who they will be) will be able to deal with that $100,000 claim. It might be you one day.

When you're twenty, nobody knows where you'll be when you're 70. If you're wealthy, great. If not, then at least you'll have a little something from social security.

Do you know how to smooth your equity curve from investing? The method is called diversification. It might be diversification into different assets, or diversification of different investing strategies. The point is to smooth the equity curve, which reduces risk. Social security is a smoothing function, applied in aggregate, to the country's citizens' retirement income.

You may not know this (I suspect you don't), but if there were enough individuals like you who could opt out of social security, then there would probably be a lot of economic problems revolving around the older generation. Actually, I don't just suspect you don't know that. It's blatantly obvious from your post that you don't.

You obviously don't have a clue about the US social security system. First of all it is already paying out more than is coming in since 2010. Second, by the time he retires THERE WILL BE NOTHING LEFT FOR ANYONE. Additionally they are already talking about taking not just public, but PRIVATE retirement pensions to help pay for "austerity measures". The US government uses social security money as if they own it. They use it to fund other government projects, and to feed their thief crony buddies retiree's money. He worked hard for his pay, he should get to keep every penny if he wants instead of paying it to some bloated bureaucracy infested by fascists and parasites.

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May 23, 2012, 03:51:59 PM
 #4

Did you know that the Amish are exempted from paying Social Security? The basis for this is that they look after their own, and the history of how they fought against having to pay Social Security is quite interesting.

The current law exempts any sect who conscientiously object to the principle of compulsory insurance, provided that sect has existed since December 31 1950. So I doubt the "Bitcoin Sect" will have much luck.
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May 23, 2012, 04:26:52 PM
 #5

If anyone could opt out, everyone would. It's mandatory because we all know it's just  a Ponzi scheme.

GET BACK TO WORK, SLAVES!
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May 23, 2012, 04:28:46 PM
 #6

If anyone could opt out, everyone would. It's mandatory because we all know it's just  a Ponzi scheme.

GET BACK TO WORK, SLAVES!

ah... The Amish do not contribute to Social Security, nor Obama Care, nor Mortgage Insurance, nor etc...

But they also don't partake of any benefits of Social Security.

Corporations have been enthroned, An era of corruption in high places will follow and the money power will endeavor to prolong its reign by working on the prejudices of the people until wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed. ~Abe Lincoln 1ApJdWUdSWYw8n8HEATYhHXA9EYoRTy7c4
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May 23, 2012, 04:53:49 PM
 #7

Believe it or not, anyone can opt out of social security. By the nature of the exemption the instructions have a religious lean, don't let that off put you, the info is solid. Before doing this make sure you understand the full ramifications of opting out.

http://sedm.org/Forms/AvoidingFranch/SSTrustIndenture.pdf

BITCOINTALK STAFF SELECTIVELY ENFORCE THE RULES IN AN ATTEMPT TO CREATE A CHILL EFFECT AND PERMANENTLY REMOVE ME AND OTHERS FROM THIS FORUM AS RETALIATION FOR SPEAKING OUT ABOUT THEIR ABUSIVE BEHAVIOR, AND THAT OF THEIR PERSONAL CLIQUES.
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May 23, 2012, 08:37:48 PM
 #8

Believe it or not, anyone can opt out of social security...

http://sedm.org/Forms/AvoidingFranch/SSTrustIndenture.pdf

By following those complex instructions anyone can opt out, however neither employers nor the government will recognise the opt-out. Good luck trying though.

From page 6 of that document:

Quote
Question: What has been the result(s) of those that have submitted a RESIGNATION to date?

Answer: We don't maintain statistics. It's too burdensome and we aren't staffed to do this. Furthermore, it's irrelevant ... It’s none of our business and is completely irrelevant to getting the job done. We’re not going to provide excuses to help you avoid doing what God’s Law requires ... If you are looking for excuses NOT to do the right thing, then you are on the wrong website and ought to return to your government cage on the federal plantation and be a good little slave. Furthermore ... no matter what we said, our Disclaimer says you can’t believe anything we say anyway, so why even ask questions like this?
Hahahah, at least their heart's in the right place with the "return to your cage" bit.
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May 23, 2012, 09:10:54 PM
 #9

If anyone could opt out, everyone would. It's mandatory because we all know it's just  a Ponzi scheme.

GET BACK TO WORK, SLAVES!

ah... The Amish do not contribute to Social Security, nor Obama Care, nor Mortgage Insurance, nor etc...

But they also don't partake of any benefits of Social Security.

Correct, I saw that in ribuck's post. That's why I said "anyone", not "someone".
Bees Brothers
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May 23, 2012, 10:36:11 PM
 #10

If anyone could opt out, everyone would. It's mandatory because we all know it's just  a Ponzi scheme.

GET BACK TO WORK, SLAVES!


Couldn't have said it better.

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May 24, 2012, 12:42:43 AM
 #11

Why don't you just keep paying it so that those not as fortunate as you will have a little bit of something when they can no longer work?

Do you know the basic principle of insurance? Some people mistakenly believe it's so that over time, the amount of insurance premiums you pay will on average equal the amount you might need to cover that rare accident you have. But that's not right. It's so that the few (we don't know who they will be) will be able to deal with that $100,000 claim. It might be you one day.

When you're twenty, nobody knows where you'll be when you're 70. If you're wealthy, great. If not, then at least you'll have a little something from social security.

Do you know how to smooth your equity curve from investing? The method is called diversification. It might be diversification into different assets, or diversification of different investing strategies. The point is to smooth the equity curve, which reduces risk. Social security is a smoothing function, applied in aggregate, to the country's citizens' retirement income.

You may not know this (I suspect you don't), but if there were enough individuals like you who could opt out of social security, then there would probably be a lot of economic problems revolving around the older generation. Actually, I don't just suspect you don't know that. It's blatantly obvious from your post that you don't.

I wouldn't compare voluntary insurance with compulsory, they are two different beasts. Also, the reasons that people don't have any money to survive when they are 70 should be addressed. If this is due to poor decisions and failure to plan ahead...

There is also the way the government uses the money to play numbers games, etc. There are many problems with social security, I would like to opt out even if they keep what they have already taxed. I think many people feel this way.
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May 24, 2012, 03:09:59 AM
 #12

The basic idea of SS is sound.  The two problems are that the money is not being kept in the trust fund.  It is being used as an interest free loan by the government, so basically it is not there.  The second problem is the payout needs to be reduced NOW but it is politically much easier not to.  So future generations are ripped off by the current one.  It is sad, because the reduction needed is actually doable.  Seniors would of course object to a 10% cut in current SS benefits, but with that the system would be sound (SS, not medicare/medicaid).


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May 24, 2012, 03:27:17 AM
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The basic idea of SS is sound.  The two problems are that the money is not being kept in the trust fund.  It is being used as an interest free loan by the government, so basically it is not there.  The second problem is the payout needs to be reduced NOW but it is politically much easier not to.  So future generations are ripped off by the current one.  It is sad, because the reduction needed is actually doable.  Seniors would of course object to a 10% cut in current SS benefits, but with that the system would be sound (SS, not medicare/medicaid).



As originally intended, yes. But it turned into one big Pyramid Scheme that requires each generation to produce more children and give those children more and more jobs at the same or higher rates of pay.

Now if you truly restricted it to Widows, Orphans, disabled etc... then there is plenty of money. SS is a hidden tax that the government borrows from. Well used to borrow from. They can't anymore.

It will have to be means tested for any shape of it to stay viable. People still believe the money they put in for 50 years was theirs. I blame the government for that illusion and not clarifying it. You will have 1 worker trying to support more than 2 people on SS very shortly. Can't be done.

Start with the wealthy, if they don't need it, they don't get it. And 'need' needs to be clearly quantified.

Corporations have been enthroned, An era of corruption in high places will follow and the money power will endeavor to prolong its reign by working on the prejudices of the people until wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed. ~Abe Lincoln 1ApJdWUdSWYw8n8HEATYhHXA9EYoRTy7c4
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May 24, 2012, 03:44:27 AM
 #14

The basic idea of SS is sound.  The two problems are that the money is not being kept in the trust fund.  It is being used as an interest free loan by the government, so basically it is not there.  The second problem is the payout needs to be reduced NOW but it is politically much easier not to.  So future generations are ripped off by the current one.  It is sad, because the reduction needed is actually doable.  Seniors would of course object to a 10% cut in current SS benefits, but with that the system would be sound (SS, not medicare/medicaid).



It will have to be means tested for any shape of it to stay viable. People still believe the money they put in for 50 years was theirs. I blame the government for that illusion and not clarifying it. You will have 1 worker trying to support more than 2 people on SS very shortly. Can't be done.


I do not believe that is true.  Currently, SS is running a SURPLUS (not that the rest of the government is not stealing that money).  Even in 2033, SS should be able to pay out 77% of benefits.  If current benefits were cut NOW by 10%, the surplus would take us through the 'hump' created by the baby boomers.  After that wave passes, SS is again sustainable.  Short sighted politicians are doing what is best for them now in exchange for screwing up the future. 

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May 24, 2012, 04:38:30 PM
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I wouldn't compare voluntary insurance with compulsory, they are two different beasts. Also, the reasons that people don't have any money to survive when they are 70 should be addressed. If this is due to poor decisions and failure to plan ahead...

You're missing the point. It's not about insurance being voluntary or not. It's about how premiums pay for claims. Many people mistakenly believe, with regard to insurance and social security, that the payments they make in are supposed to somehow equitably match what their claims should be over time. Neither program is designed to work like that.

The OP likely is one who believes that he should be exempt from the program, because perhaps his payments made into social security might not equal what he'd receive on the back end - exactly like a good driver who never has a claim might believe that his premium should be even lower.
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May 24, 2012, 04:41:25 PM
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I do not believe that is true.  Currently, SS is running a SURPLUS (not that the rest of the government is not stealing that money).  Even in 2033, SS should be able to pay out 77% of benefits.  If current benefits were cut NOW by 10%, the surplus would take us through the 'hump' created by the baby boomers.  After that wave passes, SS is again sustainable.  Short sighted politicians are doing what is best for them now in exchange for screwing up the future. 

http://blogs.reuters.com/reuters-money/2010/07/27/selling-the-big-lie-on-social-security/
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May 24, 2012, 07:46:04 PM
 #17

I do not believe that is true.  Currently, SS is running a SURPLUS (not that the rest of the government is not stealing that money).  Even in 2033, SS should be able to pay out 77% of benefits.  If current benefits were cut NOW by 10%, the surplus would take us through the 'hump' created by the baby boomers.  After that wave passes, SS is again sustainable.  Short sighted politicians are doing what is best for them now in exchange for screwing up the future. 

http://blogs.reuters.com/reuters-money/2010/07/27/selling-the-big-lie-on-social-security/

They are a bit more optimistic then others I have read, but generally agree with that is said there.  A small cut now would satisfy the tougher projections though.

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May 27, 2012, 09:25:45 PM
 #18

Believe it or not, anyone can opt out of social security...

http://sedm.org/Forms/AvoidingFranch/SSTrustIndenture.pdf

By following those complex instructions anyone can opt out, however neither employers nor the government will recognise the opt-out. Good luck trying though.

Actually once you complete the paperwork they are legally obligated to recognize it. Of course people will find it odd, but that doesn't change the law.

BITCOINTALK STAFF SELECTIVELY ENFORCE THE RULES IN AN ATTEMPT TO CREATE A CHILL EFFECT AND PERMANENTLY REMOVE ME AND OTHERS FROM THIS FORUM AS RETALIATION FOR SPEAKING OUT ABOUT THEIR ABUSIVE BEHAVIOR, AND THAT OF THEIR PERSONAL CLIQUES.
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May 27, 2012, 09:36:15 PM
 #19

Believe it or not, anyone can opt out of social security. By the nature of the exemption the instructions have a religious lean, don't let that off put you, the info is solid. Before doing this make sure you understand the full ramifications of opting out.

http://sedm.org/Forms/AvoidingFranch/SSTrustIndenture.pdf

I found that site a few years ago.... I find it pretty damn cool to see it referenced here.

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May 29, 2012, 12:17:16 PM
 #20

Yeah nice stop paying so when something bad happens to you you will be fucked. Or maybe you will do like that father who went in a hospital with a pistol to have help for his son who required medical assistance (but since they were poor and could not pay the insurance, no help for you, you poor, you die)

/facepalm
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