After 1 year of diversified bitcoin dice house bank investment we lost 32.46%

[theskillzdatklls]

Maybe you should remove dice.ninja from the average computation, list it as dead or something.

i dont think he actually should remove it. he invested in it so did many other people. so as far as his investing portfolio is concerned in real life, he's down a full coin there. removing scam sites is getting rid of real world problems that are part of the investment risk that should be considered in an actual annualized average.

[1715159783]

1715159783

[1715159783]

1715159783

[2dogs]

Should keep dice.ninja in your stats.
It keeps your report consistent and factual.

[Bitcoin Betting Guide]

Thanks for the discussion on how to treat Dice Ninja for the purpose of this comparison table. What we will do is keep the real figures there and affecting the column average for
- Current Balance
- Current Return
- Annualized Return
as in that part of the table we are reporting real historical results. The Dice Ninja loss did happen during the time of this investment comparison and is relevant lesson to be reminded of. However we will remove the figures from
- House Bank
- Bank Turnover
- Investor Edge
- Expected Annual Return
- Review Score
and replace them with a "-" that will not affect the column averages as that part of the table is about hypothetical future return and it does not make sense for a non operator to be included. This will be done before the next update, sorry for the delay.

Here is the weekly update for October 30th 2014

• Dice Now is rewriting their whole site and will launch with a new name and domain, the timetable is unknown. We are excited about this as they are already a high quality and reliable operator that do things a bit differently, not just another just dice clone. On the other hand don’t expect to see any improvements or marketing on Dice Now which guarantees the betting volume will remain tiny.

• Ice Dice website is not loading for me at the moment so their figures are not updated. I will keep checking until it loads or can be declared dead  

• Peerbet have improved their web design with a new background and home page. We have updated their review score which his lifted them 2 sports in the rankings.

• Coinwin house bank has more than halved in size and is now less than ฿11.

• PRC's house bank has gone up another ~฿1000 and they were the only site with good turnover this week of ~฿1000.

[Bitcoin Betting Guide]

Ice Dice have come back to life and their figures have been updated. They have by fare the lowest turnover and expected annual return, to be honest I am only invested in them for the purposes of this comparison. See the updated figures and Ice Dice review here

http://www.bitcoin-dice-guide.com/bitcoin-dice-reviews/#icedice

In the time it took to write this they are offline again, so still having problems, feels like a sinking ship to be honest.

[casinobitco]

This is pretty cool! Nice work!

[unamis76]

Keep up the awesome work

[Bitcoin Betting Guide]

Thanks a lot for the support and encouragement ITT everyone. The investments are now more than a month old meaning the figures are becoming meaningful. If you like the investment comparison table I think you will find even more value in the rest of the Bitcoin Betting Guide's content.

We have updated all figures again, I don't want every 3rd post ITT to be a be a screenshot so please see the updated table here.

More than ฿1000 of bets reported on Dice Now this week and even more on PRC.

It's interesting being invested in Coinwin when it has a ฿7 bank, it gives the operator much less incentive to do a runner and it means my ฿1 is 14% of the bank meaning I make 13% of site profit (after commission). The small bank is turned over every 2 days meaning I should make 0.9% every 2 days. Although so far every single operator is below their expected annual return which is calculated with that logic. This might point to operators over reporting their turnover, underpaying their investors or that bots making tiny tiny bets with stop losses on their martingales are actually making money.

It will be at least 11 days until we can update this again sorry for the delay.

[cryptasm]

Ok I should not invest in dice ninja...doesnt seem like a good annual profit l0l

[picolo]

It will be very exciting to follow this thread. I may invest in a gambling site or two but I will be risking to loose 100% of the capital invested, I will cash out the profits every 10 or 20% to reduce my exposure.

[theskillzdatklls]

This might point to operators over reporting their turnover, underpaying their investors or that bots making tiny tiny bets with stop losses on their martingales are actually making money.

i think you left out the most likely case which is site operators cheating by rolling and knowing the future seeds. any site operator that takes 0.2% wagered spread out over a large amount of time with several different accounts placing innocuously small bets is going to have one hell of a time ever being found/caught. the prevalence of the <1% house runs really points to this imo.

[flyingplows]

And what do you think about BikiniDice? is it a good small amount investment for a newbie? what other site would you recommend to invest that deals with altcoins for a beginner? 

[Splatters]

I always like to see statistics well done like this. Nice work

[Chijio]

This one look like many people to play

[pawel7777]

In the Reviews section (on your website), for prcdice you said:

What we don’t like: [...]The operator taking a fixed % of turnover while investors only get a % of profits.

Why do you see it as a bad thing? I'd say it's a more sustainable model. It adds some sort of confidence that the dev will have sufficient income to cover operating/promotional expenses even if the site is in loss position for a longer time period.

I see it as a strong point of prcdice.

Could you elaborate?

[theskillzdatklls]

yea i got to agree with you pawel. same ev diff either way and if it takes some stress off the owner it works for me.

[picolo]

yea i got to agree with you pawel. same ev diff either way and if it takes some stress off the owner it works for me.

I agree with it as well. PRC Dice and Bitcoin Casino are strongly staying on the first two positions of this ranking.

[kashish948]

these are some good stats. thanks for this!

[sangwan1212]

nice thread, following it from now

[Dabs]

In the Reviews section (on your website), for prcdice you said:

What we don’t like: [...]The operator taking a fixed % of turnover while investors only get a % of profits.

Why do you see it as a bad thing? I'd say it's a more sustainable model. It adds some sort of confidence that the dev will have sufficient income to cover operating/promotional expenses even if the site is in loss position for a longer time period.

I see it as a strong point of prcdice.

If there are other sites that pop up, would this kind of profits/commissions arrangement be a good thing or not?

It may indeed be a more sustainable model on the part of the site/operator. However, it does not add as much confidence some people (not all) would have on how the site does not seem to trust it's own profitability otherwise, that the house is not "invested" in the bankroll.

I had considered doing this same "percentage based on turnover" instead of "percentage on profits" model. But have decided against doing that, for now.

[Bitcoin Betting Guide]

All figures are updated again, we are just about back to break even after the Dice Ninja loss.

The Total Wagered figure displayed on the Peerbet dice interface has gone down since the last update On the 5th it was ฿476.437 now it's ฿359.488. That is one of the figures the table uses to calculate bank turnover and expected annual return and this is the 2nd it this has happened. Peerbet show another figure for wagered in the my invest page of ฿5467.832, I have contacted them for clarification. That's the kind of thing I mean when I say its still armature hour out there.

i think you left out the most likely case which is site operators cheating by rolling and knowing the future seeds. any site operator that takes 0.2% wagered spread out over a large amount of time with several different accounts placing innocuously small bets is going to have one hell of a time ever being found/caught. the prevalence of the <1% house runs really points to this imo.

That's interesting, an operator could be making 1% on all users bets then make just enough winning bets (by knowing the seeds) themselves to take the overall site profit down to 0.5% which investors and users still accept as legit. I'm sure there is a way operators can make it provably impossible for them to do that I'm not sure if that is implemented anywhere. When you see operators report thousands of bitcoin turnover every other week with almost no change in site profit it makes you wonder.

In the Reviews section (on your website), for prcdice you said:

What we don’t like: [...]The operator taking a fixed % of turnover while investors only get a % of profits.

Why do you see it as a bad thing? I'd say it's a more sustainable model. It adds some sort of confidence that the dev will have sufficient income to cover operating/promotional expenses even if the site is in loss position for a longer time period.

I see it as a strong point of PRCdice.

Could you elaborate?

yea i got to agree with you pawel. same ev diff either way and if it takes some stress off the owner it works for me.

By the "it's the same expected value" logic the site could pay investors .9% of turnover regardless of actual results, it's the same expected value but it's a bad idea because, in terms of payouts, the actual results matter not the expected value. It adds another angle to the potential for the operator to overpay themselves (in this case by over reporting turnover). I like the operator to be in the same boat as the investors.

See the table here http://www.bitcoin-dice-guide.com/dice-investment-comparison/