Child Kidnappings by the Western-European States

[Marianne Skanland]

  

Hoi!   Mother and daughter made it home to Lithuania!

- Mor og datter befinner seg i Litauen (Mother and daughter are in Lithuania)
Adresseavisen, 26 January 2015

"Mannen som varslet politiet er ikke jentas biologiske far. Han har sagt til politiet at moren ikke klarte å leve uten datteren sin. Begge skal ifølge mannen ha det bra." (The man who informed the police is not the girl's biological father. He has said to the police that the mother was not able to live without her daughter. Both are, according to the man, fine.")

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(I could do with a full time secretary to find articles more quickly.)
  
  

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[Naine]

 

So the EU Commission is hidebound and "uppety" but MEPs – members of the European Parliament – are getting active. Add to this the fact that the social services particularly in Britain are going crazy these last years, they are having a regular feast "redistributing" children, so that the European Court of Human Rights is getting a lot of complaints especially from British parents. The Czech member of the European Parliament Tomáš Zdechovský should therefore find a number of allies in his efforts to have Britain and Scandinavia condemned for their practices (the latest I heard was that he would especially take up the actions of those countries).

 

It will not go away.
a) Czech public can accept that a state takes away children. It is also sometimes done. But if it is done, the children should go to the other family member and it is not acceptable to limit mother's access to the children for one hour/year and to prohibited the access of others members of the family to the children. Also siblings are kept together.  What is totally unacceptable is the Czech language prohibition and forced adoption, which was allegedly intended. The mother stated that the children will not be given Czech passport as requested by CPS. I think that without a paperwork they cannot be easily adopted. There was a group of people, which used to give Czech children for adoption to Germany, to be assimilated. The people were called Nazis.  So there is a quite an outrage that Czech citizens are prohibited to communicate in Czech.

b) The ambassador did no help.
http://zpravy.idnes.cz/rozhovor-velvyslankyne-norsko-dne-/domaci.aspx?c=A150122_122807_domaci_aba

A: There were reasons.
B: What reasons?
A: I do not have any documents. Only the mother and the CPS have documents.
B: Have somebody from the CPS said you why it was done?
A: We are not in contact with the CPS.
B: Have you called the CPS?
A: No.
B: How you know that everything is OK?
A: I know how the system works.

There should be some protest in Prague and during biathlon competition.
http://tn.nova.cz/clanek/zpravy/domaci/vyzva-na-webu-rekneme-norum-na-biatlonu-at-vrati-nase-deti.html

c) It was discovered that the two "independent" psychologist were not independent, they are living together.

d) It is not the only case. They are four another cases.

e) Tomáš Zdechovský, Petr Mach a Jitka  Chalánková were in Norway.
http://www.chalankova.cz/
According Tomáš Zdechovský - police was polite and correct, CPS not. He asked why were children separated. No answer. What the mother must do to get them back? No answer.

f) Tomáš Zdechovský is s renaissance person (a journalist, a poet...) and  a member of a small conservative christian (=catholic) party, which promotes family values.

g) There is a petition with more then 10 000 signatures asking the government to do something about it.
http://zpravy.idnes.cz/petice-deti-norsko-urad-vlady-d21-/domaci.aspx?c=A141210_113514_domaci_hv

[Naine]

http://pravyprostor.cz/kde-je-moje-dite-otevreny-dopis-velvyslanci-norska-v-ceske-republice/
An another peace of  information. The CPS used as an interpret from Czech a Polish interpret.

[Naine]

A petition
https://secure.avaaz.org/en/petition/Government_of_Norway_Return_Children_to_Their_Mother/

[Marianne Skanland]

  

It will not go away.  

I am very glad to hear that Naine thinks the issue will not die down in Czechia. The only way to achieve a change is for people to react strongly over every case, and not forget it, not shrug their shoulders, not to accept all the babble which official Norway comes up with.

*

b) The ambassador did no help.
http://zpravy.idnes.cz/rozhovor-velvyslankyne-norsko-dne-/domaci.aspx?c=A150122_122807_domaci_aba

A: There were reasons.
B: What reasons?
A: I do not have any documents. Only the mother and the CPS have documents.
B: Have somebody from the CPS said you why it was done?
A: We are not in contact with the CPS.
B: Have you called the CPS?
A: No.
B: How you know that everything is OK?
A: I know how the system works.

Very revealing. So this, then, is the Norwegian ambassador in Prague, Mrs Siri Ellen Sletner. First she says that there were reasons why the children had to be taken. Then she says that she has no documents about the case and is not in contact with the CPS. Then how does she know? The answer is the typical one: She "knows" how the system works. That is the way the Norwegian state always answers: The CPS "never takes children unless there are compelling reasons why it has to be done". – This is the blind propaganda we are always up against.
Předpokládám, že museli mít důvod děti vzít, říká norská velvyslankyně

Here are some more Norwegian amabassadors praising our CPS:
Norwegian embassies abroad and Norwegian child protection
(Note how the group of Hindus in America exposed the one there.)

*

This article shows the text on the transparencies they used at the sports-competition - bravo!
Jak na protest v Novém Městě na Moravě

The transparency texts are in Czech and Norwegian, so I can provide an English translation of the Norwegian:

"Norge bryter FN barnekonvensjon" – Norway violates the UN Convention of the Rights of the Child
"Norge bryter menneskerettigheter" – Norway violates human rights
"Norge, gi oss tilbake barna våre" – Norway, give us back our children
"Bryt ikke art. 8 EMK" – Do not violate Article 8 of the European Convention on Human Rights
"Norge er hjerteløs" – Norway is heartless
"Norge oppfører seg som et diktatur" – Norway behaves like/as a dictatorship
"Norge – siste kommuniststat?" – Norway - the last communist state?*
"Dårlig samvittighet? Det bør Norge ha." – Bad conscience? That is what Norway should have.
"Husker du tatere? Det samme skjer på nytt." Do you remember the "Taters"? The same is happening again.**
"Reputasjonen deres er ødelagt. Hjelp med gjenoppbygging!" Your reputation is ruined. Help rebuilding it!

* But look out for Sweden, it is even worse when it comes to CPS.
** The Taters are a gipsy-like, nomadic/semi-nomadic, ethnic group in the Nordic countries. They have been treated atrociously, shut up, forcibly sterilised, lobotomised, and their children have been taken from them.






  

[Naine]

Mrs Siri Ellen Sletner
an official statement in English
http://www.ceskatelevize.cz/ct24/nejnovejsi-videa/298934-marksova-k-norskym-detem-cast-spisu-je-v-souladu-s-prohlasenim-norske-ambasady/

[Naine]

I am very glad to hear that Naine thinks the issue will not die down in Czechia. The only way to achieve a change is for people to react strongly over every case, and not forget it, not shrug their shoulders, not to accept all the babble which official Norway comes up with.

It is not going away.
The Norway prime minister said: Get lost, I will do nothing.
http://www.tyden.cz/rubriky/domaci/norska-premierka-do-kauz-deti-zasahovat-nebudeme_331685.html#.VMth3aNwYwc

The government does not do very much, but the opposition see possibilities how to collect some points.

Jitka Chalánková was in Norway and she is not impressed.
http://www.parlamentnilisty.cz/politika/politici-volicum/Chalankova-TOP-09-Zmena-zakona-je-nutna-337857
She sais that Norway is in the breach of human rights
http://www.parlamentnilisty.cz/politika/politici-volicum/Chalankova-TOP-09-Pokud-selze-diplomacie-pozadam-snemovnu-o-zalobu-na-Norsko-355203

Petr Mach thinks that it is a business
http://www.parlamentnilisty.cz/politika/politici-volicum/Mach-Svobodni-Norsky-system-odebirani-deti-je-vynosny-kseft-359453

Tomáš Zdechovský is not pleased. It seems to him very strange that a mass murderer can see his mother every month and two small Czech children cannot.
http://www.parlamentnilisty.cz/politika/politici-volicum/Zdechovsky-KDU-CSL-Dukazy-ukazuji-ze-v-Norsku-dochazi-k-systemove-chybe-359445
He was in Norway, according him Norway police was polite and correct, CPS - spite and malice.
Why you have separated the children? Hmmm...what?
What the mother must to do, to get them back? Hmm...
http://www.reflex.cz/clanek/komentare/61750/dokonaly-hyenismus-pokracuje-norove-o-odebranych-detech-mlzi-a-vysmivaji-se-nam.html
http://echo24.cz/a/wMDbY/pravnik-matky-ceskych-deti-v-norsku-jsme-slyseli-absurdity

The grand father was in Norway, he was not able to see his grandchildren...we do not have anybody who could translate...they had 6 month to find somebody
http://www.tyden.cz/rubriky/domaci/prijel-navstivit-vnuky-do-norska-urad-mu-to-zakazal_302803.html#.VMthc6NwYwc
http://pravyprostor.cz/kde-je-moje-dite-otevreny-dopis-velvyslanci-norska-v-ceske-republice/
http://sonasvobodova.blog.idnes.cz/c/434665/Norsko-ceska-media-lzou-Umluvu-neporusujeme.html

Aunt of children went to court at Hodoním, she wants them into care.
http://www.novinky.cz/domaci/359993-uz-jsme-jim-koupili-i-postele-rika-teta-dvou-chlapcu-odebranych-v-norsku.html
Moreover local police was asked by the grandfather to look at fact, how it is possible that the children are kept in Norway.
http://brno.idnes.cz/kauza-ceske-deti-v-norsku-u-policie-a-soudu-v-hodonine-pd0-/brno-zpravy.aspx?c=A150127_135926_brno-zpravy_daj

Documents
http://www.lidovky.cz/trestni-oznameni-proti-matce-odebranych-deti-bylo-pozastaveno-pvn-/zpravy-domov.aspx?c=A150121_181850_ln_domov_ele


The advertisement of CPS was also criticised
http://www.krajskelisty.cz/praha/obvod-praha-1/7400-socialka-ktera-ma-maslo-na-hlave-inzeruje-hledate-zabavu-a-vzruseni-pracujte-u-nas-z-toho-se-vam-zvedne-zaludek.htm

[Nemo1024]

And from what I could gather from the articles, Norwegian CPS either separated the brother or plans to do so, while, as per standard forced integration practice, denies them lessons in Czech language, forcing them to forget their mother tongue.

[Naine]

And from what I could gather from the articles, Norwegian CPS either separated the brother or plans to do so, while, as per standard forced integration practice, denies them lessons in Czech language, forcing them to forget their mother tongue.

The boys were separated and the mother is prohibited to speak with them in Czech. The language question is dynamite.

Nazzis had Lebensborn program initially set up in Germany in 1935, the program expanded into several occupied European countries with Germanic populations during the Second World War. It included the selection of "racially worthy" orphans including some children from Lidice
http://frr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lidice

There is a novel about a child in this program, how she fells lonely, "mother" does no love her...eventually she returns home, but she has problems with integration
http://www.amazon.com/They-Called-Lein-Zdenka-Bezdekova/dp/B000NPJF9E/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1422640532&sr=1-2
It used to be an obligatory reading, so the language question is hypersensitive.


Táňa Fischerová CT: Czech Helsinki Committee turns to the UN Committee on the Rights of the Child, to assess whether Norway during the removal of children and the implementation of foster care does not violate the Convention on the Rights of the Child.
Czech Helsinki Committee wishes to make a complaint to the UN Committee on the Rights of the Child on Norway for violation of the Convention on the Rights of the Child in the removal of children from Czech, Russian and Polish families. The child’s opinion is not taken into account in the proceedings, children should be with their mother regularly see and communicate, are targeted bond between siblings. According to the testimony of Russian children returned to them in foster families is not well treated, suffering from emotional stress.
http://www.helcom.cz/cs/en/tana-fischerova-v-ct-cesky-helsinsky-vybor-se-obrati-na-vybor-osn-pro-prava-ditete-aby-posoudil-zda-norsko-pri-odebirani-deti-a-pri-realizaci-nahradni-rodinne-pece-neporusuje-umluvu-o-pravech-ditet/
http://denikreferendum.cz/clanek/19633-evropa-hodnot

[Naine]

News from Lithuania
http://ru.delfi.lt/news/live/shveciya-vernula-pohischennogo-litovkoj-malchika-v-norvegiyu.d?id=67058938

[Marianne Skanland]

  

News from Lithuania
http://ru.delfi.lt/news/live/shveciya-vernula-pohischennogo-litovkoj-malchika-v-norvegiyu.d?id=67058938

Hoho, seems interesting - now who can summarise / translate this Russian for us? (Guess who I am thinking of. Or are you Russian-proficient yourself, Naine?)


  

[Nemo1024]

 

News from Lithuania
http://ru.delfi.lt/news/live/shveciya-vernula-pohischennogo-litovkoj-malchika-v-norvegiyu.d?id=67058938

Hoho, seems interesting - now who can summarise / translate this Russian for us? (Guess who I am thinking of. Or are you Russian-proficient yourself, Naine?)
  

This is bad. Here's a quick translation:

Lithuanian Foreign Ministry received on Monday morning information that the minor citizen of Lithuania G.B.  has already been passed by the Swedish authorities on to the Norwegian CPS on January 28th.

Now the official confirmation and explanation of the circumstances of the incident is being awaited.

Lithuanian Ambassador to Sweden Eitvydas Bajarunas asked for an urgent meeting in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Sweden, to find out why Lithuania was not promptly informed of the transfer of the minor Lithuanian citizen to the social services in Sweden, as well as the circumstances of the transfer of a citizen of Lithuania to Norway.

Lithuanian Embassy in Sweden received on the 29th of January an appeal from the mother of a minor G.B., and started acting immediately, and it took contact with the Swedish Foreign Ministry, social services and the police.

Lithuanian Embassy in Norway was making every effort to return the minor citizen of Lithuania to Lithuania, to protect the interests of the citizens of Lithuania and the welfare of the child.

To do this, the Lithuanian Foreign Ministry and the embassy in Norway use all legal channels - both formal and informal.

Lithuanian Embassy in Sweden urgently asked the officials of this country to find out why Lithuania was not immediately provided with the  information on the transfer of the kidnapped in Norway minor Lithuanian citizen to the social services of Sweden, but has not yet received a response.

Foreign Ministry spokesman Kestutis Vashkelyavichyus argues that the Lithuanian Embassy on Friday sent a note to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Sweden, but the official response has not yet been received.

"As soon as we received the information, the Lithuanian Embassy in Sweden at once contacted the police and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, and liaises with the relatives of the minor citizen of Lithuania", - Vashkelyavichyus said on Sunday on Radio LRT.

According to him, the embassy and the ministry, understanding the subtlety of the issue and the pain of loved ones, is giving priority to this issue.

"The embassy many times appealed to the Norwegian Foreign Ministry in order to sign an agreement on cooperation in the field of child protection. Information that we do not care about this issue is untrue - Lithuania has repeatedly raised this issue,"- said the representative of Lithuania.

The Embassy in Sweden has asked the officials of this country to explain why Lithuania was not immediately informed on the transfer of the kidnapped in Norway minor citizen of Lithuania G.B.  to the Swedish childcare services.

The Foreign Ministry said that the embassy addressed this issue in the Swedish Foreign Ministry, the police, social services. The Ministry states that they are monitoring the situation with the families of Lithuanian citizens from whom children were taken in Norway and other countries.

Missing last Monday in Norway and discovered in Sweden a seven-year G.B. is now under the supervision of CPS in Sweden.

According to the Norwegian police, the child went missing during a meeting with the biological mother Grażyna Leschinskene. Woman has been interrogated, the charges of deceiving officials have been brought against her.

Lithuanian Parental Forum issued an Open Letter to the President and responsible services on Saturday evening  - it is requested to make every effort to ensure that the boy was returned to Lithuania, and let him live with the family.

Media reported that two Lithuanian families kidnapped their children from guardians in Norway last week. Angelica Stankunene arrived last Monday to Lithuania from Norway with her seven-year son.

And another article from today, about the Lithuanian petition:
http://ru.delfi.lt/news/live/zhivuschie-za-rubezhom-litovcy-trebuyut-vernut-peredannogo-norvegii-rebenka.d?id=67062704

Lithuanians living abroad are demanding the return of the child transferred to Norway
 
If Lithuania is not be able to protect their children, it would undermine the confidence of our citizens in our country. This is stated by the authors of the petition in defense of the Lithuanian boy, whom Sweden gave not to Lithuania, but to Norway.

Petition which is actively signed by people, is distributed among Lithuanians living abroad. Its text reminds of §13 of  Constitution of the Republic of Lithuania, which states: "The State of Lithuania takes care of its citizens abroad. Does not pass a citizen of Latvia to other country, if there is no relevant international agreement of Lithuania."

Lithuania and Sweden have signed an agreement on cooperation in the field of child protection, so "if the child is not returned to Lithuania, but to the temporary guardians in Norway, this agreement will be violated."

The initiators of a petition demanding that the President of the Republic of Latvia, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, the protection of children's rights and adoption, the parliamentary group "For the welfare of children" and "For family" immediately figured out all the factual circumstances and made every effort to protect the rights of a citizen of Latvia.

They demand the return of the child to Lithuania and to provide the necessary assistance both to him and his family. And also to find out whether, the child can and wants to live with his parents.

"If the life with the parents does not represent a real danger to the health and life of the child, please let him live with his family," - said in the petition.

Detained in Sweden

DELFI already said that on Monday a 7-year-old boy G.B. disappeared in Norway and was found in Sweden, who for some time was in the hands of the Swedish CPS. In accordance with the bilateral agreement with Lithuania he had to be transferred to Lithuania, however, as it turned out on February 2, he is already time in Norway.

According to the Norwegian police, the child went missing during a meeting with his biological mother in the city of Molde. Woman questioned in connection with the abduction of a child, and was accused that she lied to the enforcers.

Mom: They did everything quietly

"That's all; this time I lost him," - said in an interview with DELFI the mother of the boy who was transferred to Norway.

The woman said she last saw her son on 26 January. After the meeting, the boy was taken by his uncle, who had the authority to go with his nephew, and he tried to take the child in Lithuania, but was spotted by Swedish services in a cabin of a vessel.

"He was allowed to go to Lithuania, but the boy was taken away. According to all the agreements they were to return the boy to the Lithuanian services, but returned to Norway instead" - the woman cannot believe what had happened.

She repeated that she had no hope to return her son. "Half an hour ago I found out that he was in Norway, and for a long time. They did everything quietly. Why did not they inform the embassy of Lithuania?" - questions the woman.

[ajaxmoor]

The topic mentions that even tourist could face problems. What do they do with the citizenship of the child ?
Do they give automatic citinzenship of Norway after an incident like this ?

[ajareselde]

The topic mentions that even tourist could face problems. What do they do with the citizenship of the child ?
Do they give automatic citinzenship of Norway after an incident like this ?

doubt its like that, there would instantly be people trying to abuse this fact.
but that law they have is so brutal, i think ppl think twice before even having kids.. or is the law more opened to interpretation.

[Nemo1024]

The topic mentions that even tourist could face problems. What do they do with the citizenship of the child ?
Do they give automatic citinzenship of Norway after an incident like this ?

That is an interesting question. The children of the guest workers, abducted by the state, retain their original citizenship. Moreover, their permit to stay in Norway is, in theory, tied to the permit of their parents. They cannot be deprived of their original citizenship - only the home-country can release them of it. I guess they are given some kind of "refugee" visa by Norway. In any case, the way CPS acts, it seems to be above the law.

[Marianne Skanland]

  
I have updated the thread on Forum RVB about the 7-year-old Lithuanian boy, to a great extent on the basis of Naine's posting on 2 Feb at 09:46:32 am and Nemo's translation of 2 Feb at 02:33:52 pm.

http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewtopic.php?p=35143#p35143
http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewtopic.php?p=35149#p35149
http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewtopic.php?p=35159#p35159

I am not at all satisfied with my last two postings there, they should have been shorter and more concise, but I lack the energy to be less longwinded!

That case by now gives a lot of clear information which I, with a deep sigh, hope the needy will trouble to read. I wish foreigners bringing children here to Norway would take it seriously. I could wish for my own countrymen to take it seriously also, but there is less hope of that.

Well, at least to foreigners in Norway:

Never talk with the CPS. Insist that everything has to be in writing.
At the first indication that they want a psychologist to talk with you or they want to visit your home or talk with your children:
Get out of the country!
Make do with whatever income you can make in your own country, or some other non-Western country.
It may be hard, but having the bonds to your children violated is harder.
Do not wait: Pack 3 plastic bags with only the basic necessities for the children. If you are seen about with ordinary luggage, the CPS will stop you and take the children on an emergency decision.
When the children have been placed in a safe country, you may return to pack up properly, or even better: get friends to do that.
Do not tell people that you will be going, there are many who may report you to the CPS.
Do not book airline tickets or boat tickets, nor should you go in your own car to Sweden. Go preferably by anonymous bus. Get yourselves to Oslo, for example, there are several buses running every hour from the bus terminal in Oslo.

Very important:
1) You must go before a case over transfer of care has been opened in the County Committee, and if you are after all caught in one, then certainly before such a case has been completed. After such a case, your child belongs to the Norwegian state.
2) Get a "moving" form (flyttemelding) from the National Census register (Folkeregisteret), which is managed by the taxation office, or better: get it from the internet, fill it in properly, and post it registered mail as soon as possible after you leave, so that it is officially registered that your children (and preferably yourself) have moved out of Norway. In that way the authorities cannot claim that you are just away on a holiday, in which case they could go ahead with a CPS case without you being there.
3) Do not be too optimistic - do not come back. The local CPS will not have forgotten you, and CPS offices all over the country are equally terrible - there might be a few odd exceptions in a few odd places for a while, but they are exceptions, and they will not be able to stand up against a report against you from another source.
  

[Naine]

there is some info about Czech protests
https://www.facebook.com/BarnevernetStealsChildren

video
English subtitles
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVvLZwy5OmE&feature=youtu.be
some subtitles
http://www.ceskatelevize.cz/ct24/nejnovejsi-videa/296115-ct-vyrazila-po-stopach-ceskych-deti-odebranych-v-norsku/

Lithuania
http://en.delfi.lt/global-lt/norways-ambassador-ulland-child-welfare-is-top-consideration-for-norwegian-institutions-regardless-of-citizenship.d?id=65467404
protest
http://www.delfi.lt/news/daily/lithuania/prie-norvegijos-ambasados-piketavo-pasipiktine-lietuviai.d?id=67071834


it seems one happy end
http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/iriks/Somaja-8-og-Rajana-6-bortfort-pa-vei-fra-skolen-7598891.html

[Naine]

Protest against CPS

Tomorrow Dublin at 14.00
https://cs-cz.facebook.com/events/421950224648399/

Tomorrow London
https://cs-cz.facebook.com/events/1410648342562958/

The Czech republic - this weekend
http://jihlava.idnes.cz/transparenty-proti-barnevernet-pri-biatlonu-v-novem-meste-na-morave-1jd-/jihlava-zpravy.aspx?c=A150204_2136816_jihlava-zpravy_mv

2000 leaflets in Czech, English, Russians and Norwegian  were printed. The aim is also to inform Russians if they have problems they should to contact the group.
The message is : "Were you kidnapped by Barnverent? Do you want back do mommy. We will help you."

[Marianne Skanland]

  

….. ...
it seems one happy end
http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/iriks/Somaja-8-og-Rajana-6-bortfort-pa-vei-fra-skolen-7598891.html

We know more about this story. I can't guarantee to remember correctly every detail, but it is possible to locate it in various articles.

Both parents are originally from Chechniya. The father and mother were divorced, both living in Norway. The father ran a business here. The father was/is married again, this time too to a Chechen woman, I think. They had two younger children.

The CPS took the two older children, two girls, and placed them in a foster home. When the CPS started their actions, the father's new wife and their children very wisely went back to Chechniya. The CPS were very angry about this, they had of course planned to take those children also. The father, with some help, got hold of the two older children and succeeded in bringing them to Russia / Chechniya, and he went there himself. The CPS tried to get the girls' mother to make trouble and demand they be taken back to Norway since she was here. A warrant was out for the father.

The father a little later made a statement that he would come back to Norway with the daughters if the CPS would give him a solemn promise never to do this - meaning take them away - again.

This is as naïve and stubborn as can be - he should have informed himself of realities and known better: The CPS can never make such a promise, by legislation they have no right to promise never to take a child. On the contrary, they are obliged by law to take a child if they 'suspect' or know that the child is in the need of …… (you know all the nice-sounding words - - -). And if the CPS in this case had said, in a sort of half-baked promise, that at the moment there was no occasion to take the girls again, that would not be binding, and at the same time there would be an uproar in CPS circles and the ministry and all sorts of places, because: how could a CPS office say that girls who were in their care and who were 'abducted' by their father (who had already been found to be unsuited/dangerous), were suddenly not in need of CPS care? That would be to admit that there was no need for the CPS at all.

In other words, the father spoke as if he believed that the local CPS office had done something a bit silly, which they would be suitably ashamed of, like naughty children, when he 'corrected' them.

Well, anyway, the CPS said nothing of the sort. The father meanwhile had financial trouble because he was not in Norway taking care of his business together with his business partner. So one day he returned to Norway in order to work, thinking that he could do it undisturbed. The girls were left in Chechniya, together with their younger siblings and their step-mother, I think.

And of course the father was arrested and put in jail pending trial as soon as he arrived.
I haven't gone after the story after that, so I don't know if there actually was a court case and, if so, what the outcome was. One gets quite exhausted at all these people (there have actually been many) who manage to save their children and then they think that they can come back after a while and nothing will happen? As if they have just had an innocent disagreement with the CPS, and the CPS would have simmered down now and realised that they had been overly dramatic and now they would be sensible and listen to the parents and let themselves be guided by the parents.

I admit I lost interest in the Chechen father. Many of these families even bring their children back with them. They think they can start afresh, after some months or a couple of years. Hah! I remember a parent or two who used to ring me up and sort of complain when I wouldn't tell them that of course they could come back now because it had all been just like a quarrel between two children, who made up and became friends again after a little while. These parents would get angry with me when I said "No, you must stay away, and you children must never set foot here until they are of age" (18 years old and their own masters). And preferably not even return then, because the CPS will be after them to take their own children if they have children in Norway, just to prove that they had bad parents so now they have become bad parents themselves. (Very primitive determinism, in other words.)

Most CPS victims who contact me and people like me, do not really want to hear the grim truth. They want me to say something they hope will be true.

But you were right, I think, Naine: it was a happy ending for the two girls, I think. Better to be in difficult Chechniya with relatives than in Norway with people obviously making money out of working as fosterers for the CPS, cut off from their own family altogether.

  

[Nemo1024]

 

….. ...
it seems one happy end
http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/iriks/Somaja-8-og-Rajana-6-bortfort-pa-vei-fra-skolen-7598891.html

We know more about this story. I can't guarantee to remember correctly every detail, but it is possible to locate it in various articles.

Both parents are originally from Chechniya. The father and mother were divorced, both living in Norway. The father ran a business here. The father was/is married again, this time too to a Chechen woman, I think. They had two younger children.

The CPS took the two older children, two girls, and placed them in a foster home. When the CPS started their actions, the father's new wife and their children very wisely went back to Chechniya. The CPS were very angry about this, they had of course planned to take those children also. The father, with some help, got hold of the two older children and succeeded in bringing them to Russia / Chechniya, and he went there himself. The CPS tried to get the girls' mother to make trouble and demand they be taken back to Norway since she was here. A warrant was out for the father.

The father a little later made a statement that he would come back to Norway with the daughters if the CPS would give him a solemn promise never to do this - meaning take them away - again.

This is as naïve and stubborn as can be - he should have informed himself of realities and known better: The CPS can never make such a promise, by legislation they have no right to promise never to take a child. On the contrary, they are obliged by law to take a child if they 'suspect' or know that the child is in the need of …… (you know all the nice-sounding words - - -). And if the CPS in this case had said, in a sort of half-baked promise, that at the moment there was no occasion to take the girls again, that would not be binding, and at the same time there would be an uproar in CPS circles and the ministry and all sorts of places, because: how could a CPS office say that girls who were in their care and who were 'abducted' by their father (who had already been found to be unsuited/dangerous), were suddenly not in need of CPS care? That would be to admit that there was no need for the CPS at all.

In other words, the father spoke as if he believed that the local CPS office had done something a bit silly, which they would be suitably ashamed of, like naughty children, when he 'corrected' them.

Well, anyway, the CPS said nothing of the sort. The father meanwhile had financial trouble because he was not in Norway taking care of his business together with his business partner. So one day he returned to Norway in order to work, thinking that he could do it undisturbed. The girls were left in Chechniya, together with their younger siblings and their step-mother, I think.

And of course the father was arrested and put in jail pending trial as soon as he arrived.
I haven't gone after the story after that, so I don't know if there actually was a court case and, if so, what the outcome was. One gets quite exhausted at all these people (there have actually been many) who manage to save their children and then they think that they can come back after a while and nothing will happen? As if they have just had an innocent disagreement with the CPS, and the CPS would have simmered down now and realised that they had been overly dramatic and now they would be sensible and listen to the parents and let themselves be guided by the parents.

I admit I lost interest in the Chechen father. Many of these families even bring their children back with them. They think they can start afresh, after some months or a couple of years. Hah! I remember a parent or two who used to ring me up and sort of complain when I wouldn't tell them that of course they could come back now because it had all been just like a quarrel between two children, who made up and became friends again after a little while. These parents would get angry with me when I said "No, you must stay away, and you children must never set foot here until they are of age" (18 years old and their own masters). And preferably not even return then, because the CPS will be after them to take their own children if they have children in Norway, just to prove that they had bad parents so now they have become bad parents themselves. (Very primitive determinism, in other words.)

Most CPS victims who contact me and people like me, do not really want to hear the grim truth. They want me to say something they hope will be true.

But you were right, I think, Naine: it was a happy ending for the two girls, I think. Better to be in difficult Chechniya with relatives than in Norway with people obviously making money out of working as fosterers for the CPS, cut off from their own family altogether.  

Marianne, just a note: Checheniya is Russia, it's a federative subject within RF (and it's one of the financially better off regions of Russia).
This case was thus also within Astahov's jurisdiction from the Russian side.

Well, at least to foreigners in Norway:

Never talk with the CPS. Insist that everything has to be in writing.
At the first indication that they want a psychologist to talk with you or they want to visit your home or talk with your children:
Get out of the country!
Make do with whatever income you can make in your own country, or some other non-Western country.
It may be hard, but having the bonds to your children violated is harder.
Do not wait: Pack 3 plastic bags with only the basic necessities for the children. If you are seen about with ordinary luggage, the CPS will stop you and take the children on an emergency decision.
When the children have been placed in a safe country, you may return to pack up properly, or even better: get friends to do that.
Do not tell people that you will be going, there are many who may report you to the CPS.
Do not book airline tickets or boat tickets, nor should you go in your own car to Sweden. Go preferably by anonymous bus. Get yourselves to Oslo, for example, there are several buses running every hour from the bus terminal in Oslo.

Very important:
1) You must go before a case over transfer of care has been opened in the County Committee, and if you are after all caught in one, then certainly before such a case has been completed. After such a case, your child belongs to the Norwegian state.
2) Get a "moving" form (flyttemelding) from the National Census register (Folkeregisteret), which is managed by the taxation office, or better: get it from the internet, fill it in properly, and post it registered mail as soon as possible after you leave, so that it is officially registered that your children (and preferably yourself) have moved out of Norway. In that way the authorities cannot claim that you are just away on a holiday, in which case they could go ahead with a CPS case without you being there.
3) Do not be too optimistic - do not come back. The local CPS will not have forgotten you, and CPS offices all over the country are equally terrible - there might be a few odd exceptions in a few odd places for a while, but they are exceptions, and they will not be able to stand up against a report against you from another source.

This list should be handed out to all hopeful visa applicants to Norway, who plan to take children with them!
By the way, it would make a nice leaflet material for the Czech demonstration.


An interesting comprehensive site from US:
http://medicalkidnap.com/news/page/2/