Child Kidnappings by the Western-European States

[Marianne Skanland]

  
Hello Fileanthropist, thank you from all of "us" for your encouragement! Good motto: Don't give up, this has to end!

You are certainly right that the initiative from the Nordic Committee for Human Rights (Nordisk Komité for Menneskelige Rettigheter) ought to have been mentioned. I know several of the people who signed their petition well, both Swedes and Norwegians. (They are not all members of the Committee.) There have been several other similar initiatives too in the Nordic countries. Our authorities - governments and bureaucracies - certainly know about them and have had every opportunity to take up the information they have provided, but it is unfortunately no accident that they do not; they know that their whole construction of "child protection" would topple if they were to listen.

Yes, the people on the list - certainly the ones I know - are reliable, but like the rest of us they have no actual power to stop the family-destructive cases and activities. Many receive cries of help from ever new persecuted families, but legislation and practice roll on ever more destructively, so it is practically impossible to help in individual cases, except if the family is able to flee, far away, in good time before the CPS gets their claws into them. I have come to believe that the only thing which has a hope of achieving a change in the long run may be publicising, especially bringing matters to the attention of people in countries which are not yet totally in the grips of the Western world's way of thinking.

(I was a vice-chairman of the NCHR/NKMR for some years, so I know a lot about their work. They have been active from the middle of the 1990s and are on the "right side", certainly. Like many NGOs working with difficult problems, however, and certainly like a stream of little organisations which have started out hopefully to combat CPS atrocities, they have had plenty of internal disagreements and worse, and a number of us left over questions of money and policy, and truth versus lies. They have since reorganised their website and done away with the old addresses to probably several thousand articles, so that even more links to their articles no longer function, which spoils a great deal of work done. - I just tell you this, it is no secret; it does not mean that I do not value the work done.)
  

[Marianne Skanland]

  
Some news:

There have been several demonstrations regarding the CPS's removal of 5 children of a Norwegian/Romanian family in Norway:

Christian Family Whose 5 Kids Were Seized by Norway Planning International Protests:
"The Facebook post also explains that supporters are working to secure the ability to protest in other major cities in the United Kingdom, Ireland, United States, Belgium, Spain, Netherlands and even in Norway."

Demonstration in Bucuresti on 19 December 2015 (fine posters, photos, about 600 people)
Demonstration in Madrid on Boxing Day (fine photos)
Demonstration planned in London on 8 January 2016

Something about the case – as usual it starts with one accusation, then the CPS develops other charges:
The five children of a Rumanian-Norwegian family taken by Barnevernet (the child protection services, CPS) in Norway
  

[Marianne Skanland]

  

Demonstrations are planned in several cities
around the world
over the Bodnariu case:

January 8        Washington, DC
January 8        England
January 9        Romania
January 9        Belgium
January 9        Germany
January 9        Canada
January 10      Spain
January 16      Czech Republic
January 17      India
January 30      Poland

The facebook announcement of the coming demonstrations

From India I am told that there will be a demonstration in New Delhi and that they will also try to arrange one in Kolkata. Cf the photos from the first large demonstration against Norwegian Barnevern: reportedly about 6000 people took part in Kolkata when Stavanger barnevern had confiscated the Bhattacharya-children:
The demo in Kolkata January 2012

*

Without any comparison with the above:

Four of us held a little spontaneous "demonstration" outside the Norwegian Embassy in Prague in November! We were a little late with the posting of the teext and the photos, so we presented it as
Christmas greetings from Prague
Photos

  

[Nemo1024]

Another case of child kidnapping, this time in Finland from a Russian-Finnish couple:

http://ren.tv/node/71124

Their 10-year-old son Thomas was taken from school to an undisclosed location - that's all the parent's got to know. Finnish CPS said that they took the child because he allegedly said that his parents punished him for something. The child is one of three children in this family with Russian mother, Veronica Stopkina. The family now took contact with Russian authorities - Astakhov's offices - and with journalists, seeking help in returning their child.

[Marianne Skanland]

Another case of child kidnapping, this time in Finland from a Russian-Finnish couple:
… The child is one of three children in this family with Russian mother, Veronica Stopkina.

Hadn't the family better bring the other two children to Russia, instantly, at all cost? After all, standard procedure of child protection systems in the Nordic countries is to consider it self-evident that if one child is punished, then the parents are sure to be monsters and to punish the other children too, so the authorities confiscate the other children also. "Just to be on the safe side" they are kept in foster homes until they are adults.

I know that Finland is pretty bad. The big problem in finding concrete information regularly is Finnish language. It belongs to a totally different language family from the Indo-European languages, so articles in Finnish are not accessible to nonFinnish speakers. The advantage here is that it concerns Russia, so that Nemo has been able to find info.

It comes in good time too: a demonstration in Moscow is planned for the 16th January. This is to be directed specifically against Norway (good) but it may hopefully draw attention to the child protection of other Western countries also (good). I'll be posting about the ongoing demos presently.
    

  

[salinizm]

Norway has a peculiar child protection (barnevernet) system. At a most insignificant suspicion that a child has bee mistreated by its parents, the child will be taken by the sate from its parents and relocated to an undisclosed foster family. *The parents will then be presumed guilty until they prove that they are innocent, a process that can take up to several years. It does not matter if both parents and the child are not Norwegian citizens - they can even be tourists visiting the country for a couple of days, the process would still be the same.

http://rt.com/news/196532-norway-remove-child-tooth/

Two weeks ago a Russia family working in the North of Norway experienced just that. Their 5-year old son had a loose milk tooth, which the mother helped to remove. The child mentioned that at school and the teacher took the child home, suspecting abuse. The parents were getting worried when the child did not return from school in the evening, but became even more worried when they got summoned by the police to give statements. They were denied their request to see the child, and they still do not know where the child is. Child protection also expressed interest in the younger sister of the boy, but the parents managed to send he back to Russia to her grand-parents, while they remain in Norway for the legal battle to get their child back. All three are Russian citizens, so this is not just a case of kidnapping, but of an abduction of a foreign citizen.

http://english.pravda.ru/society/stories/11-10-2011/119296-norway_children-0/

Norway had about 8000 such cases, 20 of which against Russian citizens. India made a TV documentary, called "Nightmare in Norway" - an Indian child got confiscated from its Indian parents in the same manner after the authorities learnt that the child crept into his parents bed after having nightmares (a child, according to the rules, must always sleep in its own bed).

The state-kidnapped children are often placed in care of families of "non-traditional orientation", which is in accordance with the Norwegian doctrine of de-genderaisation of children. A child should be an "it", until "it" is old enough to decide if it wants to be a "she" or "he".

In those cases when parents managed to prove their innocence, and children were returned, the families were still forced to leave Norway.

So, when visiting Norway with a child, make sure not to anger it so that it does not start tell tall tails of abuse to its teachers and don't feed it from your hands (falls under the transgression of "forced feeding")

what ? norway authorities must be insane. those cases are not example of child abuse or something. these arent more than simply parenting. Raising 
child in eastern cultures happens with these methods.. norway , please learn world cultures.. do not stuck in your so called democratic european world ...

[Marianne Skanland]

  

what ? norway authorities must be insane.

You could certainly say that, salinizm. They keep repeating endlessly how wonderful everything in our child protection system is, but will never discuss how individual, actual cases are carried out. Here is a new article which takes the Norwegian Embassy (= the Norwegian state) by the scruff of their neck: It has already been published by Prague Post, and has just now turned up on the internet in Romania in Rumanian translation.

If anyone would like to spread it further, the author Jan Simonsen would just be very pleased. It fits hand in glove with some demonstrations in a lot of countries against Norwegian child protection just now (I'll link to that below.)


**

3 January 2016


Jan Simonsen:

Norwegian Embassy with gross bluff about Norwegian child protection (Barnevern)

The Norwegian Embassy in Bucharest has published a fairly long statement about the Norwegian Child Welfare Services (Barnevernet) on its webpage.

It's probably the same information other Norwegian embassies spread to various countries.

This statement is inaccurate and in part downright untrue. It is aimed at showing a rosy picture of a system which is felt by thousands of Norwegians as abusive and has triggered large demonstrations not only in Bucharest and other European capitals but in Norway too.

The Norwegian child welfare service – Children in cross-border situations

The Embassy writes:
"In 2014, approximately 53.000 children received measures from the child welfare service in Norway. More than eight out of ten of these cases were voluntarily assistive measures for children and families."

The number of children receiving assistance from the Child Welfare Services is of course completely irrelevant in relation to the problem: that many children in Norway are taken away from their parents. The statistics of The Norwegian Directorate for Children, Youth and Family Affairs show that 11,200 children and young individuals lived in Norwegian foster homes in 2014. In the course of the year 1,665 children were taken from their parents involuntarily. Every day around the year, then, 3 - 4 children are taken from their parents (Barn som får hjelp fra barnevernet).

The Embassy writes that an order for transfer of care is issued by a special Norwegian court or an ordinary court, "and only when the child is subject to serious neglect, maltreatment or abuse", and adds that "Placing a child outside the home without the parents’ consent is always a measure of last resort."

This is a serious allegation, indirectly implying grave accusations against the parents, who have scant possibilities of defending themselves. In a case against a Czech mother, her going to the media with her case was used against her in the appeal court.

The Embassy's claim that children are only taken from their parents when there is "serious neglect, maltreatment or abuse" is so far from the truth that it may be characterised as a serious lie.

Several hundred cases were examined by Dr. of science Åge Simonsen, whose conclusion was that few of the transfers of care were motivated in real care failure, rather they were done after a subjective assessment by a bureaucrat in the Child Welfare Services that the parents "lacked in ability to care". They were not evaluated as able enough to be parents.

This also actually agrees with the statistics of the Directorate for Children, Youth and Family Affairs, statistics of the 20 most frequent reasons why the Child Welfare Services take action. At the top of the list we find "The parents lack in parenting abilities." In an interview with the Norwegian newspaper Verdens Gang, lawyer Thea Totland says that she has noted over the last few years increasingly many cases in which there is no question of evident care failure, "but that the ability to care is judged on the basis of opinion and on the basis of a number of demands which many are not able to fulfil" (my translation). Many Norwegian lawyers are in agreement with Totland's assessment.

What, then, are the demands posed by the Child Welfare Services as diagnostic for parents not having sufficient ability to raise their children?

Professor Marianne Skånland is probably the person in Norway who has for the longest period of years monitored our Child Welfare Services with critical eyes and has studied the field most thoroughly. In an article she lists arguments used by the child protection agencies in Norway and the other Nordic countries saddled with the same official system. From 69 examples I have selected five as representative:
(Hva skal til for at barnevernet skiller barn og foreldre? from An incomplete list of reasons given –)

1: The psychologist registered that the mother could not make an omelet to his satisfaction and she cuts the bread into too thick slices.

2: The child looks eagerly at strangers around it and smiles at them. This means that it is not attached to its mother.

3: The baby turns its face the wrong way when its father washes it.

4: The mother wants to let the children's grandmother bring them to and from physiotherapy and other medical treatment which they need, instead of taking them herself. In this the mother puts her own interests before the children's.

5: When visiting the children the grandmother wanted to embrace them. The CPS had to stop that, since it can create an unwanted attachment.


The Embassy writes that "Parents are entitled to a due process, including a lawyer paid for by the government, the right to be heard and the right to appeal the decision".

On paper that is correct. But the judicial process is illusory. Case law shows that it never succeeds. Norwegian lawyers confirm that this is so. While the cases run in the courts, the children are in the hands of foster parents, and the Child Welfare Services therefore advance as an argument against the biological parents that the children have adapted to their new "parents" and that it would be traumatic for them to be torn away from their new environment. This argument is maintained even more strongly with time and is approved by the courts.

In sum, it must be said that in most cases the Child Welfare Services take children from their parents on the basis of a subjective judgment of "lack of ability to care", with very flimsy arguments. The attitude right from the start is that the major responsibility for our children is the prerogative of the state, not of the parents. Parents and children are daily subject to these abusive actions from the Child Welfare Services. They affect both Norwegian parents and foreign parents in Norway. Even the children of asylum seekers, children who have been confiscated by the Norwegian Child Welfare Services, are kept on permanently with Norwegian foster parents, whereas their parents are expelled from Norway.

In the wake of the Child Welfare Services we have seen human catastrophes, destroyed families, and in some cases parents who have taken their own lives or have ended up as drug abusers in their desperation over having lost that which is most precious to them. A report from the Norwegian Institute for Urban and Regional Research shows that foster children in Norway take their lives eight times as frequently as other children do (pp 12-13 of the report).

This is the truth of the Norwegian Child Welfare Services which the Norwegian Embassy in Bucharest has not wanted to inform the Romanian public about.

*

  

[Marianne Skanland]

  

Demonstrations abroad against Norwegian child protection (CPS)  – Barnevernet


Planned demonstrations:

8  January      USA - Washington DC
8  January      Britain - London
8  January      Spain – Barcelona
8  January      Denmark – Copenhagen
8  January      Ireland – Dublin

9  January      Romania - Bucharest, Timisoara, Constanta, Cluj
9  January      Belgium - Brussels
9  January      Germany - Frankfurt
9  January      Canada - Ottawa
9  January      Italy – Rome, Torino
9  January      Netherlands – Hague

10 January     Spain - Madrid
16 January     The Czech Republic - Prague
16 January     Latvia – Riga
16 January     Russia – Moscow
16 January     Austria – Vienna
17 January     India - New Delhi, Kolkata
23 January     Slovakia - Bratislava
30 January     Poland - Warsaw

*

Even if only some of these demonstrations take place, it should be considered very good. We must keep our eyes open and hope for reports, preferably in foreign media.

Here in Norway there was a demonstration in Oslo on Tuesday 5 January, with about 40-50 people (very good in this cold weather!).
Protest in Oslo

*
  
5:50 p.m.

The national broadcasting nrk had a coverage in the radio program "Her og Nå" (Here and now) which runs between 5 and 6 pm. The part of the program dealing with Norwegian Barnevernet was about 9 minutes long. The first part spoke of the demonstrations and interviewed a CPS representative from Naustdal, the municipality where five children have been taken from the family Bodnariu (The five children of a Rumanian-Norwegian family taken by Barnevernet), the second part was an interview with the Norwegian ambassador in Lithuania, who told the listeners about the upset over Norwegian CPS in Lithuania for months.

The program stated that there have been invitations to demonstrations in 5 countries today, in London, Washington DC, Barcelona, Dublin og Copenhagen.
    The CPS say they do not believe the foreigners know how the Norwegian statute regulating child protection works, they will (again) send out information in English, and 'try to explain' the Norwegian system. The ambassador in Lithuania complains (again) that the foreigners do not want to listen to this "information". An embassy secretary in Washington thinks that incorrect information is circulating.
    The CPS locally in Naustdal have received heaps of postcards etc, and the administrative head of the municipal administration finds the situation so unpleasant that he will have the police monitor websites here in Norway which he thinks spread smear-campaigns on the edge of illegality.
 
*


In connection with the demonstrations yesterday 8 January 2016:

The demonstrations have been a great success so far. The Facebook group gives the following numbers of supporters:

Washington:    700+ in front of the Norwegian Embassy in Washington DC, USA
Protest in Washington

London:    1200 in front of the Norwegian Embassy in London, England
Protest in London

Barcelona:    150+ in front of the Norwegian Consulate in Barcelona, Spain
Protest in Barcelona

Copenhagen:    30+ in front of the Norwegian Embassy in Copenhagen, Denmark
Protest in Copenhagen
Video

Dublin:    600 in front of the Norwegian Embassy in Dublin, Ireland
Protest in Dublin

*

Here we have "a toddler" Cipri Tom who has placed an appeal on the facebook page of FrP (the Progress Party, which has the cabinet minister whose department is boss of the CPS!):
Please help STOP Bernevernet Norway kidnap children from their parents!
Fremskrittspartiet FrP, 8 January 2016

*

Regjeringa følgjer demonstrasjonane tett (The government monitors the demonstrations closely)
Fleire demonstrasjonar er varsla i dag. Regjeringa har tett kontakt med rumenske myndigheiter i samband med dei store demonstrasjonane mot ei norsk barnevernssak.
(More demonstrations are scheduled for today. The government has close contact with Romanian authorities in connection with the large demonstrations against a Norwegian CPS case.)
nrk (the national broadcasting) in Sogn og Fjordane, 9 January 2016

"PROTEST I DUBLIN: Ifølgje arrangøren var kring 600 menneske samla utanfor den norske ambassaden i demonstrasjon mot barnevernet.
FOTO: STØTTEGRUPPA SI FACEBOOK-SIDE/DANIEL CATANA"
(PROTEST IN DUBLIN: According to the arranging committee, about 600 people gathered outside the Norwegian Embassy in demonstration against the CPS.
Photo: The facebook page of the committee supporting the family / Daniel Catana)

! !   Ah, indeed, photo taken from the support group – the national Norwegian broadcasting co has stopped using only state-subservient sources?

*

Fleire hundre demonstrerte i Washington mot norsk barnevern (Several hundred demonstrated in Washington against Norwegian CPS)
Fleire hundre demonstrantar samla seg i dag ved den norske ambassaden i Washington som ein protest mot ei barnevernsak frå Sogn og Fjordane. Dei overleverte fleire tusen underskrifter til ambassaden.
(Several hundred demonstrators gathered today at the Norwegian Embassy in Washington as a protest against a child protection case from the county of Sogn og Fjordane. They delivered several thousand signatures of protest to the Embassy.)
nrk (the national broadcasting) in Sogn og Fjordane, 8 January 2016

**

 

Reports and photos from the demonstrations on 9 January 2016:

The results are beginning to come in. Most numbers are by reports from the support group.

Timisoara, Romania:    1000 people  (place not given)
Protest in Timisoara
Video

Rome:    (Number of people not given) on Piazza Santa Prisca in Rome, Italy
Protest in Rome
Video

Bucharest, Romania:    2,500+ near the Norwegian Embassy in Bucharest, Romania
Protest in Bucharest
Video  (It is not entirely clear whether this video is from Bucharest or from Brussels.)
 
Constanta:    400 i Constanta, Romania
Protest in Constanta
 
*

Massedemonstrasjoner mot norsk barnevern i 19 land (Mass demonstrations against Norwegian CPS in 19 countries)
Flere tusen mennesker demonstrerte mot norsk barnevern i Romania lørdag. Denne måneden holdes det nitten demonstrasjoner mot norske ambassader på tre kontinenter i forbindelse med en omstridt barnevernssak.
(Several thousand people demonstrated against Norwegian child protection in Romania on Saturday. This month there will be nineteen demonstrations against Norwegian embassies on three continents in connection with a controversial child protection case.)
VG, 9 January 2016

The article brings interview with ambassadors and authorities etc. Their attitude is all the time that what is missing is for the foreigners to "understand". When Norway informs them, other countries will understand, they believe. Their thoughts are free from any idea that Norway's child protection may in fact be doing something radically wrong – may really, in actual fact, be an abuser.

*


Ottawa:    Several dozen in front of the Norwegian Embassy in Ottawa, Canada
Romanian-Canadians protest Norway's seizure of 5 children in dispute
Ottawa Citizen, 9 januar 2016

Brussels:    Almost 1000 in front of the Norwegian Embassy in Brussels, Belgium
Protest in Brussel
  
Torino:    400 på Piazza Vittorio i Torino, Italia
Protest in Torino

Hague:    100 people in front of the Norwegian Embassy in The Hague, The Netherlands
Protest in The Hague
  
Cluj:    500+ gathered in the centre of Cluj, Romania
Hundreds rally in several cities urging Norwegian authorities return Bodnariu children
Agerpres, Romanian National New Agency, 9 January 2016

*
 
    
  
  

[Nemo1024]

 ...
    The CPS locally in Naustdal have received heaps of postcards etc, and the administrative head of the municipal administration finds the situation so unpleasant that he will have the police monitor websites here in Norway which he thinks spread smear-campaigns on the edge of illegality.
 ...

I want to highlight this bit - very indicative, showing that the demonstrators are on the right track, seeing as the authorities want to have them shup up, freedom of speech be damned.

[Proua]

Hello everybody.

I am aware of the problem now and giving my full support to you and families under these tragedys. There is no doubt that power will corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely. My hope is that in my country this model of CPS will not be accepted fully, but I feel endangered. Any ideas, how to inform people, so they would start doubting and questioning? Maybe, someone can write an informative summary of issues and I could translate it and I could spread it, there where and how I can? The more people hear, the more they think.

[ausbit]

Hello everybody.

I am aware of the problem now and giving my full support to you and families under these tragedys. There is no doubt that power will corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely. My hope is that in my country this model of CPS will not be accepted fully, but I feel endangered. Any ideas, how to inform people, so they would start doubting and questioning? Maybe, someone can write an informative summary of issues and I could translate it and I could spread it, there where and how I can? The more people hear, the more they think.

Child kidnapping is became a business everywhere for these evil and bad guys. To just make money people are doing anything whatever coming to their mind. These people I can say is no human anymore.

[Proua]

News: http://praguepost.com/the-big-story/51505-another-child-taken-by-norway-s-barnevernet

[Marianne Skanland]

You are very welcome in this thread, Proua! The persecuted families need all the help they can get, and publicity is very important, perhaps the most important of all now.

As regards translation, tell me: Are you Czech, since you link to that article from Prague Post? Which language would you be translating to?

The few of us who do fairly consistent work with the CPS problem, are up to our ears in work usually, so I don't know who could make special summaries. Could you have a look at my home page http://www.mhskanland.net and select articles I have written in English which you find useful? You will find my email address there. You are free to re-publish anything I have written. Similarly, there are articles on Forum RVB's English page: http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewforum.php?f=56 which might suit. You can ask me if you want to translate and publish articles which have been written by other people than me; I know several of the authors and can find out whether that is ok.

Regards,
Marianne

  

[Marianne Skanland]

  
There are some reports etc from demonstrations today. Click into the videos from Arad! They bring forth joyful tears, at least in me - I am quite emotional.


Reports and pictures from the demonstrations on 16 January 2016:


Vienna:    Lots of people in front of the Norwegian Embassy in Vienna, Austria
Video (English language)
Video (German language)


Arad:    Possibly over 1000 people, with a large brass band, on Piata Avram Iancu, Arad, Romania
Protest in Arad
Video: Miting la Arad pentru familia Bodnariu 1
Video: Miting la Arad pentru familia Bodnariu 2
Video: Miting la Arad pentru familia Bodnariu 3
Aradul, alături de familia Bodnariu
Arad Online, 16 January 2016
  
Suceava:    Possibly 1000 people demonstrating in Suceava, Romania
Video
UPDATE: Mitinguri de solidaritate cu familiile Bodnariu şi Nan
Romania Libera, 16 January 2016 (for both families Bodnariu and Nan)

  

  

[Proua]

Thank you, Marianne.

I can translate from English to Estonian and Russian. I speak and understand fluently Finnish as well and can handle more-less some slavic languages (Polish, Check etc), but not translate into these. I have "an idea" of few other common European languages, so I can see/read with quite  wide open eyes.
There is some info found in Estonian, but I am not sure if its enough. Could be useful to get in touch with people who are struggling here. However, I have heard about a protest in Tallinn on 23.01.16. I try to be there, if I can.

[Marianne Skanland]

Proua, you sound too good to be true! But I hope you are with us in that anything we do, is for free - there is nobody who can pay anybody for translations or other work.

First priority: Estonia and Estonians, of course!

I had not heard that there is to be a demonstration in Tallinn on the coming Saturday, so this information is extra welcome. Estonians do not have enough information about CPS in the Scandinavian countries and Finland, so certain it would be useful to translate and spread more information in Estonian. Also, Norway is active trying to spread their way of "protecting" children to Estonia too, and there is every reason to try and wake the Estonians up to what the result will be:

Norwegian child protection active as teachers in Estonia?

At the demonstration in Prague yesterday, the demonstrators marched to the establishment organising "Norwegian Grants" and called out: "Keep your money!", so many Czechs have understood something important.

Demonstration in Prague

*

If you are able to attend the Tallinn demo, I suggest:

1) You try to make a translation of Jan Simonsen's recent article:
Norwegian Embassy makes gross bluff about Norwegian child protection
into Estonian.

2) You put it out on the internet one or several places (I know Jan well, he is a Norwegian living part of the year in Prague) and I have his full permission to spread the article as well as possible and in as many languages as possible.)

3) You bring along to the demonstrations some print-outs of the article. Be sure to also pass out the link to it. Try to find the demonstration organisers and pass on a copy to them.

4) You could also bring along the same article in Russian version, for the Estonians who are not too young to have been taught Russian (also, I know there is a Russian population in Estonia.)
Jan Simonsen: Пocoльcтвo Hopвeгии в Бyxapecтe - -

Many Russians, too, have been treated badly by Norwegian CPS, and they demonstrate. Unfortunately, the demos in Russia tend to be lead by a lady whose issue is first and foremost with the children's father, her ex-husband. She accuses the CPS of having taken his side unfairly. - It is usually impossible for outsiders to really know what is what in a conflict between parents. While the CPS are eager to sow conflict between parents and to capitalise on it, I think the thing we must do is to concentrate on stemming the tide of CPS treatment of children, not on solving disputes between parents. Plenty of Russians, too, understand this, and plenty of people elsewhere too try/want to direct CPS opposition towards the other parent. In my view that is a sometimes a hindrance to our work to spread factual information about CPS abuses.
  
5) Another thing which I need myself, in order to understand more fully what Estonians know and do not know, is to have a translation the other way: of an Estonian article into English or Scandinavian:
http://sirlejuures.blogspot.no/2015/06/uus-lastekaitseseadus-kas-lapsi.html

So it would very helpful if you were able to translate it. I know that it is critical of Western nations' CPS, but it is not enough for me to know just vaguely, I need a full translation.

You will see, both here on Bitcoin and on my own website that I have given a mail address, and you are of course welcome to use it if you want to communicate with me direct.

Let me just say as a conclusion that if you do not think this that I have suggested to be the most valuable thing you could do, then use your own judgment to see what you could best contribute. There are umpty articles, for instance, on the three pages of
http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewforum.php?f=56
and on my website
http://Http://www.mhskanland.net

that we would be very grateful to have translated into Estonian or Finnish or Russian!







  

[Tyrantt]

The state-kidnapped children are often placed in care of families of "non-traditional orientation", which is in accordance with the Norwegian doctrine of de-genderaisation of children. A child should be an "it", until "it" is old enough to decide if it wants to be a "she" or "he".

I am Norwegian. The above section is pure and utter bullshit, no such doctrine excists.

Regarding the childrens protection service,  yes, they can be a bitch, and they are frequently a controversial topic in Norwegian media. You should know children has very strong legal protection rights here. I don't know the Russian case, but in the Indian case the childrens protection service has stated that it was not the fact that the children where sleeping with their parents, or that they where handfed, that led to the children being removed from the parents, but that the reasons for the removal is not to be disclosed. I honestly don't know what happened, and I don't rightly care. You make it seem like this is something that happens regularly in Norway but that is not the case.

I just love when someone makes a statement of some country and the person, from that said country, replies with "That's utter bullshit" comment.

[Proua]

Hello Marianne,

I will be very busy tomorrow, but thanks for all your info, it helps. Definately, I will translate the linked for you (however, not very high quality into English, you would want to edit). Yes, I will do my best to prepare for protest and also, I will translate info into Estonian (it is much more  important as Russians get a lot of info from Russian media, but Estonians dont). I would need then you to upload them somewhere, I could spread a link to this info then. I would like to stay publicly/locally quite anonymous i.e. not to be an author. We are quite threatened by many instruments-systems. World is gone crazy.

[Proua]

BTW, Forgot to mention: we have one case (I think you have heard about it), when all children were taken by CPS. I looked to all info I could find and came to conclusion that the reason was parents to be a little bit dumb and seriously poor. The youngest child died in childcare. The system apologized and did not give the others back to family. CPS found, that such parents should not give birth to children, since they are poor and will burden the support-system (un-oficcial statement). Some children did not like to go to school and parents could not convince them to go. So, instead of offering homeschooling and maybe even a teacher, if parents were "dumb", they took children. Not to mention no funding (or natural things like food, clothes etc) was given to avoid poverty. Sums meant to help local people are actually very low, so even if they did give support, it would be probably still be not enough. Parents were not abusers, alcholics or drug addicts. Just dumb and poor. This happened before new law came in force, so its said that such mistakes will be now avoided. What an irony, it will get much worse. Soon. Probably, they would not get even an apologize now.

PS: In Estonia the thing is that the older people often know Russian well, youth does not. Older Russians (occupants) do not know Estonian language, youth knows it better. Reason: Until 1990, estonians had to know russian if they wanted to manage in ESSR (Estonian Soviet Social Republic). Schools for Russian children taught Estonian very negligently. Now, from 1992, we do not have any longer two languages officially. So, young Estonians dont have to learn Russian any more and they dont and Russian children are now under pressure, obliged to learn Estonian on high level, believe me, they struggle hard with it, since parents cant help them. My own opinion is that no matter is there one or two languages, both local groups should be taught, for free and well. But it wont happen of course, just dreaming.

[Proua]

Yes, it was just confusion  with mail, found it on your page  .