Child Kidnappings by the Western-European States

[omonuyak]

This Norway law is bad! I know children need our love and affection but they still need discipline in other to have bright future. No one can love the children more than their mother and father and taking them away from their parents because of the way their are been treated is a bad decision to me.

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[BADecker]

^^^ I agree. However, parents need to be disciplined if they are harming their own children... and I mean real harm, not simply a disagreement with public, socialistic indoctrination. If the parents simply don't know how to keep from harming their own children (negligent or life-training harm), they should be trained regarding how to not harm their children.

Generally, taking the children away from their parents, damages the children more than leaving them with their parents would have. In addition, many children who are removed from their home wind up as child sex slaves who are sold by government people to pedophile groups.

[Nemo1024]

^^^ I agree. However, parents need to be disciplined if they are harming their own children... and I mean real harm, not simply a disagreement with public, socialistic indoctrination. If the parents simply don't know how to keep from harming their own children (negligent or life-training harm), they should be trained regarding how to not harm their children.

Generally, taking the children away from their parents, damages the children more than leaving them with their parents would have. In addition, many children who are removed from their home wind up as child sex slaves who are sold by government people to pedophile groups.

Sadly, that is the case. The initial idea of the child protection services was good. But the actual implementation has gone really bad. The only reason of separation of the children from parents should be proven gross abuse of the children. In all othe cases, the services should educate the parents and, possibly, monitor the situation, without parting the kids from their parents.

Some good news regarding the case from the 3rd of April:

Love & justice: Russian family reunited by Polish court decision after fleeing Sweden
https://www.rt.com/russia/455659-poland-court-russia-children/

A Russian father, who fled with his three daughters to Poland, going against Swedish social services which put the children in a Muslim foster family, finally received justice as a Polish court allowed the girls to stay with him.

On Wednesday a Polish court decision, ruling that Swedish social services had violated an EU convention that forbids placing children in foreign cultural environments, ended a forced separation of a father and his daughters who are 12, 6 and 4 years old.

    3 rosyjskie dziewczynki miały być bezprawnie odebrane ojcu przez szwedzkich urzędników na polskiej ziemi.

    Naruszeniu prawa międzynarodowego sprzeciwiło się @OrdoIuris

    Błyskawiczna reakcja mec. @BartoszLewand20, wsparcie rządu oraz RPD doprowadziły do skierowania sprawy do sądu! pic.twitter.com/DbOzTTuaHr
    — Jerzy Kwaśniewski (@jerzKwasniewski) April 3, 2019

Denis Lisov, who came to Sweden seven years ago, learned that social services decided to take away his three daughters and place them in a Muslim foster family after his wife was admitted to a hospital with mental illness. The services decided that Denis, who wasn’t officially employed at the time, couldn’t take proper care of the girls.

Though Lisov's family formally retained custody of the children, the father only had the right to see them six hours a week.

...

After a year apart Denis Lisov took desperate measures to leave Sweden for Russia with his daughters. However, the family was stopped in Warsaw by Polish authorities as Sweden reported the girls missing. Through the intervention of Russian diplomats and lawyers, the children were not sent back to Sweden, and the case was handed to the courts.

...

The case has received a lot of attention in all three countries. Polish Interior Minister Joachim Brudziński praised the ruling tweeting “The Court decided that the children should stay with their father. Well done the police and the border police.”

In Russia, children’s ombudswoman Anna Kuznetsova thanked her Polish counterpart for the attention to the matter and promised assistance to the Lisov family.

[Marianne Skanland]

  
Oslo, Norway: 7 April 2019


Interesting to see this old thread put to use once again. It proves that the abuses carried out by Western child protection services have unfortunately not been accidental episodes.


Here is something more about the Swedish case from Ordo Iuris, Institute for Legal Culture, in Poland:

Walczą o ochronę międzynarodową w Polsce. W Szwecji ich dzieci oddano muzułmanom
https://ordoiuris.pl/rodzina-i-malzenstwo/walcza-o-ochrone-miedzynarodowa-w-polsce-w-szwecji-ich-dzieci-oddano


Did you see that the Norwegian mother Silje Garmo and her daughter have formally received asylum in Poland?
Asylum for Silje Garmo officially confirmed
http://en.ordoiuris.pl/family-and-marriage/asylum-silje-garmo-officially-confirmed

There are more families from Norway, too, who have fled to Poland. There are more interesting news also. Norwegian authorities are reacting by increasing the pressure, refusing to face facts and criticism, and doing silly things, like throwing out!! Polish diplomat consul Kowalski (who has done fine work here to help Polish families persecuted by the child protection 'service'.)

  

  

[TECSHARE]

You will be happy to hear Marianne, I have witnessed some small progress towards shutting down some of these groups responsible for these activities in the US at least. It still happens, a lot, but people are now more aware, and I am finally seeing people go to prison over these things instead of just mysteriously getting away with it every time.

[Marianne Skanland]

  
Please explain, Tecshare, what you mean by "groups". I certainly know that the CPS (child protection services) in the USA are haywire, like the Western European ones, and have seen some small moves by some (Republican) politicians to investigate them. But perhaps you mean someone else – someone joining in to take advantage?

[TECSHARE]

  
Please explain, Tecshare, what you mean by "groups". I certainly know that the CPS (child protection services) in the USA are haywire, like the Western European ones, and have seen some small moves by some (Republican) politicians to investigate them. But perhaps you mean someone else – someone joining in to take advantage?

Well as you may or may not know, these organizations are closely linked with child trafficking rings. I was simply pointing out that I am finally seeing some progress on that front here where some of these people who are often driving these CPS organizations to act are finally being shut down, at least to some degree. In the past evidence would simply vanish, along with witnesses, or charges would mysteriously be dropped. This is not happening as much any more and I am seeing more of these people go in to cages where they belong.

[Marianne Skanland]

  

I found a considerable number of articles and some postings in debates about the Russian father with the three daughters who fled from Sweden. It is getting to be well-known in several countries, which is good. The case has among other things reached the conservative American newspaper Washington Times:

L. Todd Wood:
Swedish case shows how the West went off the rails
The Washington Times, 4 April 2019


Some more, of various quality, and some with comments going in all directions – it is nevertheless good that the case is getting to be well-known:

The Man:
Foster care and cultural compatibility
Political Hotwire, 11 April 2019

Man Flees Sweden For Poland With Daughters After Children Put In Muslim Foster Care
Blazing Cat Fur, no date

Chris Tomlinson:
Christian Dad Flees Sweden with Daughters Placed in Muslim Foster Care, Claims Asylum in Poland
Breitbart, 6 April 2019

Selwyn Duke:
Christian Father in Sweden Removed Daughters From Muslim Foster Home, Flees to Poland
The New American, 11 April 2019

Andry Kut:
Fleeing with children from Sweden, the Russians asked for asylum in Poland
Hand of Moscow, 4 April 2019


*

I posted a comment in the comments section of the 'Blazing Cat Fur' article:

"Marianne Haslev Skanland, Oslo • 2 days ago
Denis Lisov had a part time job. But the social services providing 'child protection' of course wanted to take the children, so instead of giving the father some assistance in the family's daily life, they claimed he 'couldn't look after them properly' and took them into care – forcibly, as they always do. They pay the fosterers incredible amounts, far more than it would cost to help the father, and fill their own jobs and those of their allied 'child professions' with this kind of tyranny.
Swedish 'child protection' is even worse than their Norwegian neighbours, but it is basically the same in the Western world: contempt and hatred for parents and for families' right to freedom and self-determination. All this 'foster care idyllisation' and all the professions profiting by it have to be got rid of."
  

[TECSHARE]

https://dailycaller.com/2019/05/06/arizonas-child-safety-department-medical-kidnapping/

[TECSHARE]

https://governmentslaves.news/2019/05/09/freedom-is-a-illusion-judge-rules-3-year-old-must-receive-chemotherapy-against-parents-wishes/

[DavidMott]

This is horrific. This story reminds me of the discussion between Alex Jones and Joe Rogan where they actually mention this very thing in the podcast. What a world we live in. Action is needed

[TECSHARE]

https://www.sovereignman.com/trends/local-government-seized-countless-children-based-on-falsified-drug-test-results-25249/

[TECSHARE]

"Mayor, doctors and social workers arrested in scheme to brainwash children into believing they had been abused and sell them"
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/children-brainwash-electroshock-sell-foster-parents-italy-police-arrests-a8978891.html

[coins4commies]

The US government has kidnapped tens of thousands of children at the border.  Everything else mentioned here pales in comparison.

[TECSHARE]

The US government has kidnapped tens of thousands of children at the border.  Everything else mentioned here pales in comparison.

So if a bunch of kids break into your house and you push them out the door, that is kidnapping? Flawless logic by Captain Postmodern as usual. BTW lets totally ignore the fact that many of these children have LITERALLY been kidnapped and are being sent to the US with people pretending to be their family so they can be sex trafficked and prostituted, but hey lets ignore child rape, there are poor people and they need our help at all costs because I don't know how to control my emotions!

[coins4commies]

So you're all for 'forcing me to pay for this'

Maintenance reportedly eats up most of the $775 daily cost per child for the tent camps, since it's difficult to keep temporary structures suitable for humans in a desert. In permanent facilities run by Health and Human Services, the cost is $256 per person per night, and NBC News estimates that even keeping children with their parents and guardians in Immigration and Customs Enforcement facilities would only cost $298 per night.

a great man once said

Great, so here we are. You guarantee these people the time and resources owned by others. How do you pay for all of this? I know you are going to say just print more money because you think "Modern Monetary Theory" is new or something different than inflation, but this still does not make resources magically appear. This is literally exactly all of the things you just got done claiming you don't support.

Also, Germans did a decent job of controlling their emotions in the 30s. 

[TECSHARE]

So you're all for 'forcing me to pay for this'

Maintenance reportedly eats up most of the $775 daily cost per child for the tent camps, since it's difficult to keep temporary structures suitable for humans in a desert. In permanent facilities run by Health and Human Services, the cost is $256 per person per night, and NBC News estimates that even keeping children with their parents and guardians in Immigration and Customs Enforcement facilities would only cost $298 per night.

a great man once said

Great, so here we are. You guarantee these people the time and resources owned by others. How do you pay for all of this? I know you are going to say just print more money because you think "Modern Monetary Theory" is new or something different than inflation, but this still does not make resources magically appear. This is literally exactly all of the things you just got done claiming you don't support.

Also, Germans did a decent job of controlling their emotions in the 30s.  

Right, I am sure the temporary detainment of these people is far more expensive than just letting them continue to flood in by the millions and then housing, feeding, educating, and medically treating all of them on the state's dime right? I can't believe you even tried to make that argument.

[coins4commies]

Right, I am sure the temporary detainment of these people is far more expensive than just letting them continue to flood in by the millions and then housing, feeding, educating, and medically treating all of them on the state's dime right? I can't believe you even tried to make that argument.

The irony is that in your attempt to be sarcastic, you are actually correct.  For 775 per day, they could live like Kardashians.  Of course thats not the true cost just the cost we pay when capitalism is involved.

You're going to be really upset when you find out giving homes to the homeless and healthcare to everyone are also . cheaper than the cruel way.  Knowing that, some people would still prefer to pay more for torture than saving money and letting these people leave.

Whats next?  Are you going to say the war was cheaper than peace and less extremism?

[TECSHARE]

Right, I am sure the temporary detainment of these people is far more expensive than just letting them continue to flood in by the millions and then housing, feeding, educating, and medically treating all of them on the state's dime right? I can't believe you even tried to make that argument.

The irony is that in your attempt to be sarcastic, you are actually correct.  For 775 per day, they could live like Kardashians.  Of course thats not the true cost just the cost we pay when capitalism is involved.

You're going to be really upset when you find out giving homes to the homeless and healthcare to everyone are also . cheaper than the cruel way.  Knowing that, some people would still prefer to pay more for torture than saving money and letting these people leave.

Whats next?  Are you going to say the war was cheaper than peace and less extremism?

Uh. No. Stop getting your "facts" from The Huffington Post and Buzzfeed. There is no way in hell $775 per day would cover food, housing, education, healthcare, or the litany of other costs accrued by having the additional burden on all the publicly used services available in this country. Furthermore they aren't detained there indefinitely so your argument is useless on its face. That is a short term cost compared to a permanent recurring cost. Your claim that this makes any sense at all shows me your complete and utter incompetence with not only economics but simple math. Again, don't try to muddy the water with other subjects. You are already way off topic with your immigration debate anyway, take it to the appropriate thread. I will not be replying to any further off topic posts here and will be reporting them.

[coins4commies]

Facts are facts.  72% of undocumented immigrants work compared to 60% of the entire population so they are actually an economic plus. If you normalize their status they can live above ground while paying full taxes.  Hearings are currently being scheduled for 2022 it is short term style housing but will be used long term and even as some of those people are sent home, they will just be replaced by a ballooning amount of more refugees.  

775 per day for four years is more than the average american makes in a lifetime.  Its over a million dollars.  The permanent recurring cost would be negative in the form of the income taxes 73% of these people would be paying if they were free.  The moral argument is clear, but there is no logical economic argument on your behalf.  Its not even close.  The cost of detaining these people is astronomical and we aren't even counting the money being spent "securing the border" and funding ICE which is money that could instead be spent replenishing the resources you say these people are a burden to.