Child Kidnappings by the Western-European States

[BADecker]

This is not kidnapping. This is the value that the Norway gives to the children.

You can't abuse children in Norway...

That's the exact point. Who determines what is abuse? And how far can government go in gradually changing their understanding of what abuse consists of, until they finally can take kids for any reason at all?

Every action needs to be decided by something like a jury in these kinds of cases. Half of the jury should be made up of folks who live in the area of the parents/guardians, while the other half not - so that we get honest opinions and jury judgments.

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[BitMos]

it's just the collectivists vs the individualist... the collectivist wants the butter, the money of the shopkeeper and his wife. There can be no informative discussion as long as you don't understand that. the individualist want to go the butter shop, pay his butter in a medium that the butterman accepts (with cryptos, why not), and leave with what he payed from his own work. Happily individualist can form Swarms, aka individuals believing in the same principle seeing no others path but victory or death over the collective. The Swarm is composed of the wise and smart interacting freely, it's very creative in nature, and frankly not of the same league as any collective organization... they lack the dynamism (aka the process of creative destruction).

[BADecker]

it's just the collectivists vs the individualist... the collectivist wants the butter, the money of the shopkeeper and his wife. There can be no informative discussion as long as you don't understand that. the individualist want to go the butter shop, pay his butter in a medium that the butterman accepts (with cryptos, why not), and leave with what he payed from his own work. Happily individualist can form Swarms, aka individuals believing in the same principle seeing no others path but victory or death over the collective. The Swarm is composed of the wise and smart interacting freely, it's very creative in nature, and frankly not of the same league as any collective organization... they lack the dynamism (aka the process of creative destruction).

Now we're talking! Up with Bitcoin! Down with tyranny!   

[BitMos]

bitcoin is a form of collectivism, you all believed in it, but hated the alt. So if you want say: Up with Cryptos! Down with tyranny!

Meanwhile a child, will one day, sooner than we may think, not even recognizes his mother (language).

[Nemo1024]

Meanwhile a child, will one day, sooner than we may think, not even recognizes his mother (language).

That is so. A 5-yo child forgets his mother tongue (and a great deal other things) within 5-6 month of disuse. I know a Russian-language teacher, who struggled keeping up the language level of the immigrant parents' kids. It was especially difficult if the family was mixed and the everyday language at home was Norwegian.

And interesting shift in politics: Initially that education was called "mothertongue teacher" (morsmållærer), but later was re-branded into "dual-language teacher" (tospråklig lærer) and the stated goal was changed from teaching the kid his mother tongue to helping him to assimilate through his mother tongue.

That harvested kid should have been given Russian language lessons ho help him, instead he is forbidden to speak the language.

[Nemo1024]

Collecting signatures to return Oskar home
http://www.citizengo.org/ru/13085-norvegia-verni-oskara-domoy

Norway, return Oscar Shianok to his parents!

On 8 October five-year-old boy Oscar Shianok was seized on spurious grounds from the family of Russian citizens by the Norwegian authorities.

Removal children from their parents without grave reasons causes severe psychological trauma to children. It is violence and abuse of children and their parents by the state.

The actions of the authorities of Norway concerning Oscar and his family are violating international Human Rights Law, in particular Article 8 of the Convention for the Protection of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms and Articles 3 and 9 of the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child.

I demand to stop these acts of cruelty and immediately take all the measures for returning Oscar to his parents. I also urge the authorities of Norway to cooperate actively with the representatives of Russia in this case for the better protection of the boy’s interests.

The child can now meet once a week and Russian language was allowed. The child cried when it was time to be separated from his mother after an hour's meeting and was asking to go home with parents. Oh, and he lost another tooth - it's that time of his life - and was proudly showing it to his mother:
http://lifenews.ru/news/143968

The parents can now see the child once a week. Russian officials have still not been granted right to see the child either:
http://rapsinews.ru/international_news/20141029/272484790.html

A demonstration was conducted at Norwegian embassy:
http://www.ivan4.ru/news/yuvenalnaya_yustitsiya/piket_u_posolstva_norvegii_v_podderzhku_malchika_oskara/

And another case!!!
On the 31st of October another child - a 6-year old Russian girl - was abducted from her parents by Norwegian authorities. Astahov (Russian child protection representative) will discuss the worsening situation in Norway with UN's representative on the 12th of November in Minsk.
http://tass.ru/obschestvo/1547613

[Nemo1024]

Some reports by The Nordic Commitee for Human Rights:
http://www.nkmr.org/en/

Summary and Report to the European Parliament Petitions Committee: Child Removal Cases in Denmark, Finland, Norway and Sweden
http://www.nkmr.org/en/english1/146-organisation/frontpage/2524-summary-and-report-to-the-european-parliament-petitions-committee-child-removal-cases-in-denmark,-finland,-norway-and-sweden

http://www.nkmr.org/docs/Report_to_the_European_Parliament_Petitions_Committee.pdf

From the report:

Background
Since the beginning of the 20th Century, the Nordic countries all have laws which give the social welfare authorities the power to forcibly remove children from the care of their parents - on what appears to be arbitrary grounds - and place them in foster homes, or institutions, among total strangers. From 1920 to the present day, more than 300 000 children in Sweden have been removed from their homes and placed in compulsory foster care. The statistics for Norway, Finland and Denmark seem to be a little lower.

CONFERENCE on the CHILD REMOVAL PROCEEDINGS in the COUNCIL of EUROPE MEMBER STATES and Related Human Rights Issues
http://www.nkmr.org/en/english1/146-organisation/frontpage/2563-conference-on-the-child-removal-proceedings-in-the-council-of-europe-member-states-and-related-human-rights-issues

[Grinder]

Here's a case where they had considered taking the child from the mother after she put him on a diet: http://www.newsinenglish.no/2014/11/09/boy-found-dead-probably-starved/

[Nemo1024]

Here's a case where they had considered taking the child from the mother after she put him on a diet: http://www.newsinenglish.no/2014/11/09/boy-found-dead-probably-starved/

Such cases are tragic, they are also rare, and could be solved by CPS closely observing suspect families, providing guidance, education, daily/weekly visits by CPS representatives. But that is a more expensive method than "just" taking the child away. Instead of oiling a car to fix it, you hit it with a hammer.

Can prevention of such cases as above outweigh the suicides (50 in Norway in 2011) committed by the children that were forcefully taken from their families?

[Nemo1024]

The situation is getting worse. Below is my speed-translation of two Russian. articles to English.

http://sledcom.ru/actual/420508/

Investigation Committee started preliminary examination of the facts of the removal of children from Russian families in Norway

On the facts of the removal of children from families in Norway, Russian Main Investigation Department of Russian Federation initiated investigation verification. Today, the media became aware of the withdrawal by child protection services in Norway of a six-year girl from a Russian family, only shortly after when from the Russians of Pskov region, living in Norway, was seized five year boy. In each case, children under false pretenses were taken from their parents and placed in foster care.

As part of the preliminary examination it will be established circumstances of gross violations of the rights of Russian children under manifestly illegal acts by transferring them into foster care, and legal assessment of actions of officials, which resulted in a substantial violation of the rights and legitimate interests of Russian citizens. If criminal signs will be found in the actions committed against Russian children, Russian Investigative Committee will start criminal investigation based on the audit .

It should be noted that the penal laws of the Russian Federation gives us the right to prosecute, including foreign nationals, if they committed a crime against the citizens of the Russian Federation, regardless of where it occurs.

Particular attention SK Russia pays investigate crimes against minors and citizens of the Russian Federation intends all possible legal means, and promote the restoration and protection of the rights of children.

http://ria.ru/world/20141111/1032812504.html

The Commissioner for Children's Rights under the President of the Russian Federation Pavel Astakhov said on Tuesday that the situation with the Russian boy Oscar Shionkom seized from their parents in Norway, has deteriorated dramatically.

The Norwegian authorities have taken  Oscar Shionk on October the 8th from the family of Russian citizens who temporarily come to work in the city of Tromso, after he told the school that his mother helped him remove his milk tooth. According to the Ombudsman, in a report written that it is the mother of "tooth was knocked out of the child." Earlier Astakhov reported that diplomats aware of 19 cases of withdrawal of Russian children from a families in Norway.

"At the moment, child protection services in Norway actually intimidate parents, as one of the channels showed interviews with Oscar's grandparents who said that the boy is better to return to Russia ... On this basis, child protection services have decided to transfer Oscar to another foster family. Introduced measures of secrecy, "- said Astakhov reporters in Minsk on Tuesday.

According to the commissioner, Oscar was allowed to meet with his parents, but it will not be allowed to tell his place of residence. "This is bullying parents so that they do to not talk to reporters," - said Astakhov. "We hope to be able to prove that the parents did not commit the fact that they are charged with, and that Oscar is returned to parents," - he added.

"Aggression from Norwegian authorities, who do not look at any laws nor to bilateral agreements, makes you wonder," - said Astakhov.

He pointed out that the boy was interrogated for five hours in a foreign language by psychologists and "lead to the conclusion that he allegedly did not want to return to his family." "But seeing him, showed that he seeks his family and wants to return mother, and this is very important. Child's desire, the desire for parents to prove that there was nothing in what the Norwegian authorities accused the family of Oscar " - said Astakhov.

BitMos, one of the Russian-speaking commentors on Rambler wrote something that resonates with your earlier comments:

A нeчeгo им дoкaзывaть, этo aкт aгpeccии пpoтив гpaждaн Poccии. CШA в тaкoм cлyчae минимyм "мopcкиx кoтикoв" ввoдят и пpecлeдyют пo вceмy миpy гpaждaн cтpaны - aгpeccopa. Bы чeмy - нибyдь y ниx нayчитecь? Дaвнo былo нyжнo пocлa oтзывaть, oбьявить пepcoнaми нoн-гpaтa пoл иx пocoльcтвa и вcex иx дeтeй пocoльcкиx нa мaгaдaн, в ceмьи эвeнкoв. И oблeт бoмбoвoзoв eжeднeвный нaчaть, и т.д.

And stop proving anything to them, it is an act of aggression against Russian citizens. United States in this case sends at least "navy seals" and pursues worldwide citizens of the aggressor state. Have you learned anything from them? You should have long ago recalled the ambassador, announced half of their embassy as personas non grata and sent all their embassy children to Magadan, to forster Evenk families. And then let bombers start making daily overflies, etc.

[Nemo1024]

Child kidnapping in Norway has turned into big business: between 1 and 2.4 million NOK per year per child is transferred from the budget to CPS (Bernevernet), given the previous data that there were 8000 kidnappings over the last 2.5 years, it gives us 8.7 children per day. Let's average it and say 9 children * 2 million * 365 days = 6.57 billion NOK (970 million dollars) per year that get eaten from the state budget. Even with Norway's exceptionally hight prices, a child cannot use 2 million NOK per year, maybe 200,000 or less. Where does the rest of the money go? In addition prospective foster parents pay to Barnevernet to adopt...


A documentary on NTV
"Adoption has become big business: Norway abducts Russian kids."
http://www.ntv.ru/novosti/1262356/rambler

New tragedy with Russian children in Norway forced defenders seriously consider contacting the UN to understand why kidnapping permitted by law prospers in this country prospers.

Children are kidnapped in the streets, taken away from schools. And all this is supposed to protect the child from domestic violence. In fact, this is a lucrative business, and to take away a child, only one call to the service care is needed. Reporter from "Anatomy of the day" Valery Alekhine uncovered facts that should really be checked at the international level.

PS: Barnevernet appears to be owned by Aarden Capital London, a sub-division of Bank of America.


A desperate article from Aftenposten from 2009 (in Norwegian), highlighting several cases against Norwegian parents, and referencing Strasbourg court ruling that Norway/Barnevernet ignored, as well as a Norwegian court ruling that was ignored as well, and a child never returned.
The article is called "The state owns the children":
http://www.aftenposten.no/meninger/kronikker/Staten-eier-barna-6612778.html

[Nemo1024]

BitMos, it's not about Kremlin lies, but about the way Russia historically treats international agreements and laws - with respect and often to its own detriment. It's been like this a hundred years ago as well, when Russia got pulled into WWI to its own detriment, only because it had to abide by the agreements.

Many in the Russian government and parliament know this and try to counteract. Russia ratified too many detrimental international agreements during Yeltsin's reign on the belief that now that the Cold War is over and that the "world community" with USA at the lead has Russia's best interests at heart and are Russia's best friends. Russia must abide by the agreements to keep its honour before the "international community". This euphoria has passed now, and pragmatism finally seems to be taking hold. Russia now asks the "international community" to abide by this same laws and suddenly draws ire.

But this is a digression.

Back to the topic. In the article in Aftenposten, the author mentions a case when a child was provably mistreated in a foster family, yet Barnevernet didn't take the child and didn't return it to the biological parents. The author is at a loss, why Barnevernet seems to think that only biological parents can harm a child, while foster parents can do no harm.

If we look at it from a business angle, it becomes clear. The child is purchased from Barnevernet by a foster family, who now owns it. Biological parents initially do not own a child - the state does. They are only means for a child to come to the world so that it later can be harvested.

A variation on an old meme comes to mind:

"Norwegian State: All your kids are belong to us."

[cutesakura]

should have taken care of their own children by their parents, educational responsibility, social and others, is still the responsibility of their parents, although today many parents who work and leave their children in daycare, so many children are no longer feel the love of their parents directly, I suggest as parents we should be paying more attention to our children, especially for problems morality and religion ... 

[Nemo1024]

Russian citizen had to flee Norway after her 10-year old daughter got called in to questioning by CPS "Barnevernet":
http://www.vladtime.ru/obsh/408200-rossiyanka-s-rebenkom-sbezhala-iz-norvegii-spasayas-ot-socsluzhb.html
Luckily her daughter was let go home until some documents were found. Scared mother flew with the first flight to Russia, while the father remains in Norway. The family has been working in the country for 7 years. The mother is a teacher, the father is a doctor. The girl was under Barnevernet's hidden surveillance for the last 4 months.

[BitMos]

Again thank you Nemo for providing updates not seen behind the wall . A few comments that I find interesting to keep in mind.

1. Russian Embassies worldwide have kept the "mystery" of soviet union alive, no state back foreigners will dare to enter, they will be killed by those mentioned before and after.

2. Population of the Kingdom of Norway : 5M. How many times was the equivalent of Norway wiped out by Soviet Union? I think than less People ever lived in Norway than died in Soviet Union.

3. How could a foreign entity chose to engage the FSB in direct hostilities and furthermore scale them, when the FSB has the moral high ground?#Bring the Children to the Motherland!

I find this situation very interesting, on one side we have what can become the bringers of the end of Norway, on the others absolute statists whose ideologies are even reflected in your last post, where the missing papers delayed the girl kidnapping... Once Official Russian Kill Rights are issued it's too late for most opponents. The Kingdom of Norway isn't able to handle Russian Realities.

What to expect from a nation that willingly contaminate the world with their toxic salmons.

[AJinNYC]

It's not the government's damn job to take a kid away from their parents. I don't care what happened. A child is their parents responsibility... It's not the government's damn job to protect you, a kid, an adult, a dog, a cat, or any other damn living creature. We need to stop with this bullshit community property ideology of biological creatures. The only people responsible for a child is their parents.

People piss me off on a daily basis with this kind of bullshit. Anybody that thinks this is okay is complete fucking idiotic, worthless moron.

[BitMos]

I completely disagree, I even find that this salmon story could be turned into the perfect way to loot the norwegian fat sovereign fund BTC, under bio terrorism law, NDAA and co. As such as the damages have already be done BTC, it's time to loot this colossal reparation fund BTC. As it's already NATO even put their oil infrastructures under direct USMC authority    . The perfect break BTC. However there is one thing I frankly empathize with you, it's your right to be pissed off by what ever you like and to express it the way you see fit...  . On a very large plan it's a great opportunity for the American and Russian Federations to remove this gov. the Russian plays the bad cops, "force" the American to "secure the propriety", the loot is secured. 50 / 50 ? Since kids can be kidnapped with impunity in the kingdom of Norway, why should a regular overthrow + loot be excluded? The Norwegians are so "advanced", they will find again the best solution to this new life paradigm, isn't it?

[Nemo1024]

Astahov classified the situation in Norway as "juvenile terror", drawing the attention of the international human rights organisations to it, and said that Russian continues to fight it:
http://www.ng.ru/news/485190.html

A big article about the situation. According to Astahov, 55 Russian kids from 32 families were taken in Norway (and 74 kids in Finland) over the course of the last 2.5 years:
http://ria.ru/world/20141114/1033320657.html
(I'll write a translation of this article later)

New details about the mother and her 10-year old girl, who fled to Russia yesterday. They were under observation by Barnevernet for 4 months, based on an anonymous call, and the girl could have been taken from the family at any moment:
http://ria.ru/society/20141114/1033309090.html

[Nemo1024]

Here is a translation of
http://ria.ru/world/20141114/1033320657.html

MOSCOW, November 14 - RIA Novosti. The Commissioner for Children's Rights under the President of the Russian Federation Pavel Astakhov transferred to Russia's Investigative Committee information on all cases of withdrawal of Russian children in Norway and Finland - 55 children in Norway and 74 children in Finland were taken from their families over the last three years.

The situation with the withdrawal of Russian children in Norway was discussed on Friday at a closed meeting in the Foreign Ministry, with the participation of the authorized representatives and the Investigative Committee of Russia.

"Today I passed the information on all the known cases and discussed in the Ombudsman's Office the withdrawal of Russian children in Norway. To date, 55 of these children were withdrawn over a period of about 2.5 years, 32 families were affected by the actions of child protection services in Norway," - Astakhov told reporters after the meeting.

He stressed that in the RF IC now checks the materials associated with the withdrawal of Russian children by child protection services in Norway.

"74 children from 48 Russian families were removed in Finland over 3 years. Such a list was handed over today to Investigative Committee as well" - added the Commissioner for Children's Rights, noting that at least with Finland there formed a relationship of some cooperation in this matter in recent times.

According to him, the Russian Foreign Ministry confirmed that all these cases are known, all addressed to the Consulate of the Russian Federation in Norway and Finland, but in most cases the situation is still not resolved positively.

"We believe that after questioning of all the victims in these cases by the Investigation Committee a legal decision must be reached, giving the right qualifications - whether it is international child abduction, false imprisonment of children or it will be a question of illegal adoption and excess of mandate by the CPS - the Investigative Committee of the Russian Federation will give an answer. However, we  believe that a criminal case on the basis of the overall situation, should be instituted, "- said Astakhov.

He explained that Norwegian Child Protection Service, as well as the Norwegian Foreign Ministry, refuse to fully meet the needs of the Investigative Committee of the Russian Foreign Ministry, refuse to cooperate on specific cases. Moreover, the  consular convention is interpreted differently. It says that the Russian consulate in cases when it comes to children in need of care, has the right to propose trustees and guardians.

"This provision is violated, because the Norwegian party does not believe that we are not talking about custody, guardianship because under Norwegian law is perceived solely as a disposal of the property of a minor," - said Astakhov. However, in Norway there is a law on the protection of children's rights, which says that if a child is deprived of custody, the first who may be candidates for guardianship are the close relatives, he added.

"There is never, in any of the case, been offered guardianship from next of kin, and foster family was always chosen, specifically Norwegian foster families," - said the commissioner.

There's been a recent increase in the number of cases of withdrawal of children from Russian families in foreign countries, particularly in Norway. Astakhov reported that withdrawal is not only from families who live permanently in Norway, but when the Russians travel to study, work, or come to this country just as tourists.

Note, that I highlight this crisis mostly from a Russian viewpoint. However, the number of "Russian" cases is very small (as the number of Russians living in Norway is small), about 0.05% of all the abduction cases. But Russia has finally decided to do something about it, at last. The main victims are still the Norwegian families themselves.

BitMos, I don't think Russia will play a bad cop, it will play by the rules, otherwise what's the point in having rules? As for America - it does not need to take over Norway, if I understood your sentiment correctly. Norway is already the last state of the USA. US President speeches get more news time here than the speeches of local or European politicians. You almost never see European films on TV and never hear European music on the radio - both are predominately American. English is de-facto second mother tongue. And the Norwegian culture is mostly remembered only on the 17th of May.


Urgent update about the 5-year old Oskar. His parents were informed by a letter from Barnevernet that the child got transferred (read: sold) to an undisclosed foster family and that any future contact between the child and his parents is prohibited.

[BitMos]

BitMos, I don't think Russia will play a bad cop, it will play by the rules, otherwise what's the point in having rules? As for America - it does not need to take over Norway, if I understood your sentiment correctly. Norway is already the last state of the USA. US President speeches get more news time here than the speeches of local or European politicians. You almost never see European films on TV and never hear European music on the radio - both are predominately American. English is de-facto second mother tongue. And the Norwegian culture is mostly remembered only on the 17th of May.


Urgent update about the 5-year old Oskar. His parents were informed by a letter from Barnevernet that the child got transferred (read: sold) to an undisclosed foster family and that any future contact between the child and his parents is prohibited.

How to phrase it kindly, I don't think Russia is anymore in the driving seat concerning Norway. But why do you think that the Russian patriots would accept that their own children could be kidnapped by any states, including Norway. That it doesn't represent a major unacceptable threat to Russian security worldwide? And that only by bringing those kids back to the Motherlands the security of all Russian children can be assured worldwide. What is interesting is that their is no report of the reaction of the norwegian gov. I mean, everyone in Norway think it will go poof, to kidnap Russian kids from their family? Wait for the crying mothers on tv. Furthermore if the said state kidnappers don't feel an utmost humiliation, which may result in their end, they can't learn from their mistakes and others capitalize on it. That's why it's time for the Empire, aka America to take care of the norwegian case. As you must know, it's not a very complex policing operation, the Empire does it all the time according to the kremlin .

My sentiment is that I. NATO /= THE EMPIRE. It's seems simple, but it's very clear. The different messages of certain so called member states have been heard. Or you join the Union, aka the United States of America or you have to behave correctly. And by that I mean, not kidnapping children from their family at all, and secondly that sometimes depending on the circumstances of the Empire it's important for your state, to admit that it must accept different paradigms in many aspects from legislative to territorial issues. But that you can have a say, but that some others interests may primes yours and a such to fold your dreams hurts less than a confrontation (from your perspective) with the Empire.

It's a match made in dream with Alaska, that some borders may become fluids and of course only include a stealth overthrow! As a Norwegians you wouldn't notice anything, Bagdad on Ice^TM, doesn't need to be violent. It's precisely the challenge of the matters, just to restore a certain sanity in the kingdom of Norway, the only explosions in the sky of Oslo would be the fireworks used to celebrate the success of the most beautifully never executed stealth overthrow. It would be so silent that the shockwaves of it would be heard very far. And warn everyone that the Empire takes it security very seriously. And if you read until here, just remember who ever may the foreign enemy be, they are nothing in comparison to the domestic ones .

No one is stopping you from interfacing safely with anything that may come from any where, about your cultural comments. I didn't knew that a cultural artifact ( ) could be nationalistic! For ex : An European music, I prefer good/bad/abject/expensive/scamy or what ever as adjective... the cultural icon of the nation, part of myth building I guess? loooowwwww skkkiiiillllllssss. Do you prefer something better or worst? Depends .