The White European should be praised for their actions concerning slavery

[awesome31312]

Shut up and praise the white people. What is so hard about that? Why won't you guys stop oppressing me? I didn't ask to be born white!

[boumalo]

if it wasn't for Europe there would probably still be slaves in most countries so there deserve less blame than than the middle easterners, less blame than the Asians or Americans and especially less blame than the Africans where slavery is still big : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Africa

Yes, congratulations. You've proven white Europeans are the master race. /sarcasm

No I was stating a history fact, why is this history fact annoying you so much?

White Europeans have their problems but when we are talking about slavery, they are the first ones who abolish it when everyone was having slaves

What you stated was an opinion. "If it wasn't for Europe there would probably still be slaves in most countries so there deserve less blame than the middle easterners, less blame than the Asians or Americans and especially less blame than the Africans where slavery is still big." That's your exact quote. Note that there is no historical fact there, it is 100% pure opinion. It's your opinion I'm taking issue with, because the underlying tone of your opinion is racist. You can tell it's racist by the fact that you're obsessed with proving whites, as a race, deserve more credit than other races (in your words: Middle Easterners, Asians, and especially Africans) on slavery. Your opinion is implying whites are better because they did something better than the other races you mentioned.

That's what is annoying me so much.

Am stating a history fact that I never really thought of before watching Molyneux's video; it is stupid to shame Europeans or White Americans for slavery, if anything I was saying a bit provocatively we should praise them

Saying something positive about white black asian.. is racist? It is utterly stupid
Maybe saying something negative could be seen as racist but you need to think about it a bit more! How saying something positive about Europeans that is an historical fact is racist?

Think your underlying tone of opinion is racist : talking about White privilege is racist and saying the black community still suffer from the slavery that occured before is racist because it is condescendant, put down the community, and is the consequence of thinking they are inferior which is utterly racist; the fact is they suffered from government intervention and hands outs more than any other community in the states and that is why they perform worse

[TECSHARE]

White people were the only ones that fought a civil war to try and keep slavery

They were the only ones that hung abolitionists

You know a civil war has 2 sides right? Who do you think was fighting the South? Canada? Was the North composed of Chinese people?

Yeah, the other party was fighting for their freedom, the same way our founding fathers fought for our freedom from the British, and the same way we are fighting for our freedom from an oppressive government

So your saying that the Northern white Americans were at risk of being enslaved if the Confederates had won the war?

[Lethn]

White people were the only ones that fought a civil war to try and keep slavery

They were the only ones that hung abolitionists

You know a civil war has 2 sides right? Who do you think was fighting the South? Canada? Was the North composed of Chinese people?

Yeah, the other party was fighting for their freedom, the same way our founding fathers fought for our freedom from the British, and the same way we are fighting for our freedom from an oppressive government

So your saying that the Northern white Americans were at risk of being enslaved if the Confederates had won the war?

If you're claiming that the white Americans who lost wouldn't have been enslaved then you're being pretty racist and/or naive ironically, you're also conveniently forgetting about the Roman Empire and how many white slaves they claimed as do many who talk about slavery. Enslavement is something universally inflicted on human beings and this is historical fact, to claim otherwise is extremely disingenuous and also ignores a good portion of black history as well given that somebody would have needed to traffic those people to America and not look suspicious.

[TECSHARE]

White people were the only ones that fought a civil war to try and keep slavery

They were the only ones that hung abolitionists

You know a civil war has 2 sides right? Who do you think was fighting the South? Canada? Was the North composed of Chinese people?

Yeah, the other party was fighting for their freedom, the same way our founding fathers fought for our freedom from the British, and the same way we are fighting for our freedom from an oppressive government

So your saying that the Northern white Americans were at risk of being enslaved if the Confederates had won the war?

If you're claiming that the white Americans who lost wouldn't have been enslaved then you're being pretty racist and/or naive ironically, you're also conveniently forgetting about the Roman Empire and how many white slaves they claimed as do many who talk about slavery. Enslavement is something universally inflicted on human beings and this is historical fact, to claim otherwise is extremely disingenuous and also ignores a good portion of black history as well given that somebody would have needed to traffic those people to America and not look suspicious.

I am not defending the moral authority of slavery... lol
As far as your assertion that the white Northerners would have been enslaved if they lost the war... I think that is a bit of a stretch at best. I am also not arguing that whites can not be enslaved or haven't been before, but the confederates wanted to secede from the North, not enslave it...

[Lethn]

The problem is there are an awful number of Americans ( I noticed black Europeans definitely don't have this attitude problem, probably because we actually learn about history ) seem to have this attitude of well since some white assholes went around enslaving people it's somehow okay to treat every other white person like shit because they 'may' have been related to them through some distant bloodline almost a century ago. Also, you kidding? A bit of a stretch? It's fucking war, the only reason a side ever makes a concession or decides to a truce is so they can either bide their time and gather strength for another attack or because they know they'd wiped each other out if it happened, that's the honest truth, why do you think truce's never last in Ukraine or between Israel and Palestine? They're out to destroy each other.

"Peace proposals unaccompanied by a sworn covenant indicate a plot" - Sun Tzu

[TECSHARE]

The problem is there are an awful number of Americans ( I noticed black Europeans definitely don't have this attitude problem, probably because we actually learn about history ) seem to have this attitude of well since some white assholes went around enslaving people it's somehow okay to treat every other white person like shit because they 'may' have been related to them through some distant bloodline almost a century ago. Also, you kidding? A bit of a stretch? It's fucking war, the only reason a side ever makes a concession or decides to a truce is so they can either bide their time and gather strength for another attack or because they know they'd wiped each other out if it happened, that's the honest truth, why do you think truce's never last in Ukraine or between Israel and Palestine? They're out to destroy each other.

"Peace proposals unaccompanied by a sworn covenant indicate a plot" - Sun Tzu

I think you have a serious lack of historical knowledge on the subject. If I remember right you aren't even from the US. What makes you such an expert on the subject of the US civil war as a European? There is a reason they call it a CIVIL war, because the people are fighting amongst themselves, not an outside enemy like a stereotypical war where the conquered has their culture destroyed and all the peoples subjugated. The union had a clear upper hand to begin with, there was no chance they would be allowed to secede let alone enslave all the white northerners fighting for the Union. My point is white Americans fought to end slavery too, not just to preserve it.

[Lethn]

Oh come on, don't tell me you actually think that, war is all about domination and subjugating other people, that's all it's good for you really are being naive.

[TECSHARE]

Oh come on, don't tell me you actually think that, war is all about domination and subjugating other people, that's all it's good for you really are being naive.

I think you are frankly ignorant abut the difference between a standard war and civil war. There are some very fundamental differences.

[My Name Was Taken]

if it wasn't for Europe there would probably still be slaves in most countries so there deserve less blame than than the middle easterners, less blame than the Asians or Americans and especially less blame than the Africans where slavery is still big : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Africa

Yes, congratulations. You've proven white Europeans are the master race. /sarcasm

No I was stating a history fact, why is this history fact annoying you so much?

White Europeans have their problems but when we are talking about slavery, they are the first ones who abolish it when everyone was having slaves

What you stated was an opinion. "If it wasn't for Europe there would probably still be slaves in most countries so there deserve less blame than the middle easterners, less blame than the Asians or Americans and especially less blame than the Africans where slavery is still big." That's your exact quote. Note that there is no historical fact there, it is 100% pure opinion. It's your opinion I'm taking issue with, because the underlying tone of your opinion is racist. You can tell it's racist by the fact that you're obsessed with proving whites, as a race, deserve more credit than other races (in your words: Middle Easterners, Asians, and especially Africans) on slavery. Your opinion is implying whites are better because they did something better than the other races you mentioned.

That's what is annoying me so much.

Am stating a history fact that I never really thought of before watching Molyneux's video; it is stupid to shame Europeans or White Americans for slavery, if anything I was saying a bit provocatively we should praise them

Saying something positive about white black asian.. is racist? It is utterly stupid
Maybe saying something negative could be seen as racist but you need to think about it a bit more! How saying something positive about Europeans that is an historical fact is racist?

Think your underlying tone of opinion is racist : talking about White privilege is racist and saying the black community still suffer from the slavery that occured before is racist because it is condescendant, put down the community, and is the consequence of thinking they are inferior which is utterly racist; the fact is they suffered from government intervention and hands outs more than any other community in the states and that is why they perform worse

What is the fact? I still don't see it. You said you think white europeans should be thanked for ending slavery and other races should have more blame. Those are opinions. They are still not historical facts. "It is stupid to shame Europeans or White Americans for slavery"  <--- Your exact words. It is an opinion.

Compliments are not racist. The way you generalize and distinguish people based on race is what is racist.

I've said nothing about white privilege. I don't know what you're carrying on about, but you're clearly confusing me with another poster.

[My Name Was Taken]

While I agree Europe probably didn't invent race slavery, they most certainly did house the worlds LARGEST raced based slave trade corporations, and made the most profit from the trade. As far as them deserving less blame because they were some of the early pioneers of abolition of slavery is not exactly valid either. A bad act doesn't erase a good act just as good doesn't erase a bad act.

Are you kidding me? You just said the same thing I did, which when I said it you took in some warped way as to somehow mean I supported slavery. You're unbelievable!

So you're advancing the idea that because some people who used to own slaves eventually voted to abolish it, those people should be commended even though they first failed to reject slavery as evil when they had the first opportunity, thereby tolerating and partaking in an institution that destroyed hundreds of thousands of lives?

I'm not buying it.

I am pretty sure the same logic can be applied to you...
What is stopping you from boycotting goods produced literally with modern slave labor in stead of buying items that pay people a decent living wage? Chances are you buy the cheapest product like most people, and because it is socially acceptable, you too support modern slavery. Now if someone might not be completely aware of this dynamic, this individual changing their behavior in favor of support of human rights is now suddenly not commendable because they once enjoyed a higher standard of living at the expense of others? I argue that you yourself are doing the very same thing right now, only with a lot less awareness of how your habits cause human suffering. You should probably check your judgment lest ye be judged. IMO some one doing wrong, admitting it, and changing their behavior shows a lot more strength than the person that pretends they aren't perpetrators (you).

Wtf gives?

[TECSHARE]

While I agree Europe probably didn't invent race slavery, they most certainly did house the worlds LARGEST raced based slave trade corporations, and made the most profit from the trade. As far as them deserving less blame because they were some of the early pioneers of abolition of slavery is not exactly valid either. A bad act doesn't erase a good act just as good doesn't erase a bad act.

Are you kidding me? You just said the same thing I did, which when I said it you took in some warped way as to somehow mean I supported slavery. You're unbelievable!

So you're advancing the idea that because some people who used to own slaves eventually voted to abolish it, those people should be commended even though they first failed to reject slavery as evil when they had the first opportunity, thereby tolerating and partaking in an institution that destroyed hundreds of thousands of lives?

I'm not buying it.

I am pretty sure the same logic can be applied to you...
What is stopping you from boycotting goods produced literally with modern slave labor in stead of buying items that pay people a decent living wage? Chances are you buy the cheapest product like most people, and because it is socially acceptable, you too support modern slavery. Now if someone might not be completely aware of this dynamic, this individual changing their behavior in favor of support of human rights is now suddenly not commendable because they once enjoyed a higher standard of living at the expense of others? I argue that you yourself are doing the very same thing right now, only with a lot less awareness of how your habits cause human suffering. You should probably check your judgment lest ye be judged. IMO some one doing wrong, admitting it, and changing their behavior shows a lot more strength than the person that pretends they aren't perpetrators (you).

Wtf gives?

I think you misunderstand. I didn't say you support slavery because if your statements. I was saying it is a FACT that you currently support slavery regardless of this discussion here. My point was if you were to apply such logic of guilt to all white Americans of the time, even those that fought slavery, by your very own metric you are also just as guilty.

[My Name Was Taken]

While I agree Europe probably didn't invent race slavery, they most certainly did house the worlds LARGEST raced based slave trade corporations, and made the most profit from the trade. As far as them deserving less blame because they were some of the early pioneers of abolition of slavery is not exactly valid either. A bad act doesn't erase a good act just as good doesn't erase a bad act.

Are you kidding me? You just said the same thing I did, which when I said it you took in some warped way as to somehow mean I supported slavery. You're unbelievable!

So you're advancing the idea that because some people who used to own slaves eventually voted to abolish it, those people should be commended even though they first failed to reject slavery as evil when they had the first opportunity, thereby tolerating and partaking in an institution that destroyed hundreds of thousands of lives?

I'm not buying it.

I am pretty sure the same logic can be applied to you...
What is stopping you from boycotting goods produced literally with modern slave labor in stead of buying items that pay people a decent living wage? Chances are you buy the cheapest product like most people, and because it is socially acceptable, you too support modern slavery. Now if someone might not be completely aware of this dynamic, this individual changing their behavior in favor of support of human rights is now suddenly not commendable because they once enjoyed a higher standard of living at the expense of others? I argue that you yourself are doing the very same thing right now, only with a lot less awareness of how your habits cause human suffering. You should probably check your judgment lest ye be judged. IMO some one doing wrong, admitting it, and changing their behavior shows a lot more strength than the person that pretends they aren't perpetrators (you).

Wtf gives?

I think you misunderstand. I didn't say you support slavery because if your statements. I was saying it is a FACT that you currently support slavery regardless of this discussion here. My point was if you were to apply such logic of guilt to all white Americans of the time, even those that fought slavery, by your very own metric you are also just as guilty.

It's a totally irrelevant point! Also, check the definition of fact. You stated an opinion.

OP says: white slave owners weren't so bad cuz they abolished slavery.
I say: before they abolished it, they accepted slavery as legitimate, so no cookie.
You say: You support slavery in the modern day.

Irrelevant to the OP, and my comment! And you put words in my mouth! I said nothing of the guilt of white Americans. I disclaimed praise for white Europeans for abolishing an institution they made possible earlier. The exact same thing you said later in a separate post.

[TECSHARE]

It's a totally irrelevant point! Also, check the definition of fact. You stated an opinion.

OP says: white slave owners weren't so bad cuz they abolished slavery.
I say: before they abolished it, they accepted slavery as legitimate, so no cookie.
You say: You support slavery in the modern day.

Irrelevant to the OP, and my comment! And you put words in my mouth! I said nothing of the guilt of white Americans. I disclaimed praise for white Europeans for abolishing an institution they made possible earlier. The exact same thing you said later in a separate post.

Calling my point irrelevant doesn't magically make it so.

You act as if the entities that created the slave based economy in the US were the same people that ended it. They were not. Most of the people who ended slavery were BORN into a system that uses slavery just as you were WELLAFTER it was created. My point is that same high standard of blame must also be applied to you since you directly enjoy an improvement of quality of life as a result of this system of forced labor in the form of cheaper products and services. Unless you are willing to give other slavery resistors of the time the same leeway you are by your own standards condemning yourself just as you condemn those men and women who lived at the time regardless of their stance on or resistance to slavery.

[My Name Was Taken]

It's a totally irrelevant point! Also, check the definition of fact. You stated an opinion.

OP says: white slave owners weren't so bad cuz they abolished slavery.
I say: before they abolished it, they accepted slavery as legitimate, so no cookie.
You say: You support slavery in the modern day.

Irrelevant to the OP, and my comment! And you put words in my mouth! I said nothing of the guilt of white Americans. I disclaimed praise for white Europeans for abolishing an institution they made possible earlier. The exact same thing you said later in a separate post.

Calling my point irrelevant doesn't magically make it so.

You act as if the entities that created the slave based economy in the US were the same people that ended it. They were not. Most of the people who ended slavery were BORN into a system that uses slavery just as you were WELLAFTER it was created. My point is that same high standard of blame must also be applied to you since you directly enjoy an improvement of quality of life as a result of this system of forced labor in the form of cheaper products and services. Unless you are willing to give other slavery resistors of the time the same leeway you are by your own standards condemning yourself just as you condemn those men and women who lived at the time regardless of their stance on or resistance to slavery.

Who is talking about the US? OP didn't bring it up, I didn't bring it up, you brought it up. That means you're changing the topic from what we were talking about.

"You act as if the entities that created the slave based economy in the US were the same people that ended it." How? How do I act like the entities that created the slave based economy in the US were the same people that ended it?

You said the same thing I did. YOU are acting like the same entities that created the slave based economy in the US were the same people that ended it. See how much sense that makes?

[TECSHARE]

It's a totally irrelevant point! Also, check the definition of fact. You stated an opinion.

OP says: white slave owners weren't so bad cuz they abolished slavery.
I say: before they abolished it, they accepted slavery as legitimate, so no cookie.
You say: You support slavery in the modern day.

Irrelevant to the OP, and my comment! And you put words in my mouth! I said nothing of the guilt of white Americans. I disclaimed praise for white Europeans for abolishing an institution they made possible earlier. The exact same thing you said later in a separate post.

Calling my point irrelevant doesn't magically make it so.

You act as if the entities that created the slave based economy in the US were the same people that ended it. They were not. Most of the people who ended slavery were BORN into a system that uses slavery just as you were WELLAFTER it was created. My point is that same high standard of blame must also be applied to you since you directly enjoy an improvement of quality of life as a result of this system of forced labor in the form of cheaper products and services. Unless you are willing to give other slavery resistors of the time the same leeway you are by your own standards condemning yourself just as you condemn those men and women who lived at the time regardless of their stance on or resistance to slavery.

Who is talking about the US? OP didn't bring it up, I didn't bring it up, you brought it up. That means you're changing the topic from what we were talking about.

"You act as if the entities that created the slave based economy in the US were the same people that ended it." How? How do I act like the entities that created the slave based economy in the US were the same people that ended it?

You said the same thing I did. YOU are acting like the same entities that created the slave based economy in the US were the same people that ended it. See how much sense that makes?

Myself and others were very clearly talking about the US civil war and how it relates to slavery, you are the one that just decided to change the subject because you just stated you intended to talk about something else...

Where exactly did you say this? Please quote. I am very clearly making a distinction between pro-slavery whites and abolitionist whites, as well as one generation from a following generation of people. Claiming I am not making that distinction does not make it magically true.

[My Name Was Taken]

Myself and others were very clearly talking about the US civil war and how it relates to slavery, you are the one that just decided to change the subject because you just stated you intended to talk about something else...

Where exactly did you say this? Please quote. I am very clearly making a distinction between pro-slavery whites and abolitionist whites, as well as one generation from a following generation of people. Claiming I am not making that distinction does not make it magically true.

Where exactly did I say what?

Mate, your first post in this thread was in response to my response to OP. You were not talking about anything before you addressed me first.

[TECSHARE]

Myself and others were very clearly talking about the US civil war and how it relates to slavery, you are the one that just decided to change the subject because you just stated you intended to talk about something else...

Where exactly did you say this? Please quote. I am very clearly making a distinction between pro-slavery whites and abolitionist whites, as well as one generation from a following generation of people. Claiming I am not making that distinction does not make it magically true.

Where exactly did I say what?

Mate, your first post in this thread was in response to my response to OP. You were not talking about anything before you addressed me first.

You said the same thing I did. YOU are acting like the same entities that created the slave based economy in the US were the same people that ended it. See how much sense that makes?

So now because I talked with you first, you now get to decide with whom I talk to and which topics I am addressing now?

[My Name Was Taken]

So now because I talked with you first, you now get to decide with whom I talk to and which topics I am addressing now?

Haha, jesus h. christ, no. My point is OP posted something and I responded to him. Then you quoted me, directly responding to what I said, and started talking about something neither of us were talking about. I took exception to it because it didn't address what I said, but implied I was down with slavery.

As for us both saying the same thing, I've already quoted it. How many times do I have to quote it, and what good does it do since I've already quoted it and you ignored it?

Here it is again, just for the devil of it, my first post in this thread:

So you're advancing the idea that because some people who used to own slaves eventually voted to abolish it, those people should be commended even though they first failed to reject slavery as evil when they had the first opportunity, thereby tolerating and partaking in an institution that destroyed hundreds of thousands of lives?

I'm not buying it.

This was in response to the OP, which was "The White European should be praised for their actions concerning slavery" (the title of this thread).


And just for reference, here's the part where you and I expressed the exact same sentiment (again):

While I agree Europe probably didn't invent race slavery, they most certainly did house the worlds LARGEST raced based slave trade corporations, and made the most profit from the trade. As far as them deserving less blame because they were some of the early pioneers of abolition of slavery is not exactly valid either. A bad act doesn't erase a good act just as good doesn't erase a bad act.

So you're advancing the idea that because some people who used to own slaves eventually voted to abolish it, those people should be commended even though they first failed to reject slavery as evil when they had the first opportunity, thereby tolerating and partaking in an institution that destroyed hundreds of thousands of lives?

I'm not buying it.

We're saying the same thing. Can't we just agree to agree?

[TECSHARE]

So now because I talked with you first, you now get to decide with whom I talk to and which topics I am addressing now?

Haha, jesus h. christ, no. My point is OP posted something and I responded to him. Then you quoted me, directly responding to what I said, and started talking about something neither of us were talking about. I took exception to it because it didn't address what I said, but implied I was down with slavery.

As for us both saying the same thing, I've already quoted it. How many times do I have to quote it, and what good does it do since I've already quoted it and you ignored it?

Here it is again, just for the devil of it, my first post in this thread:

So you're advancing the idea that because some people who used to own slaves eventually voted to abolish it, those people should be commended even though they first failed to reject slavery as evil when they had the first opportunity, thereby tolerating and partaking in an institution that destroyed hundreds of thousands of lives?

I'm not buying it.

This was in response to the OP, which was "The White European should be praised for their actions concerning slavery" (the title of this thread).


And just for reference, here's the part where you and I expressed the exact same sentiment (again):

While I agree Europe probably didn't invent race slavery, they most certainly did house the worlds LARGEST raced based slave trade corporations, and made the most profit from the trade. As far as them deserving less blame because they were some of the early pioneers of abolition of slavery is not exactly valid either. A bad act doesn't erase a good act just as good doesn't erase a bad act.

So you're advancing the idea that because some people who used to own slaves eventually voted to abolish it, those people should be commended even though they first failed to reject slavery as evil when they had the first opportunity, thereby tolerating and partaking in an institution that destroyed hundreds of thousands of lives?

I'm not buying it.

We're saying the same thing. Can't we just agree to agree?

No, because we aren't saying the same thing...
1. Not all abolitionists were slave holders
2. Most slave holders that later became abolitionists were born into the system (like most of us today)
3. The people who abolished slavery were not the same individuals that implemented the system

You seem to be arguing that most former slave holders one day decided slavery is wrong, but because they once thought it was ok they deserve condemnation. It is almost as if you are treating the entire nation as if they were one slave holding individual. Some people deserve praise, others do not. Your analysis of the situation is incomplete.