The negative impact of mining farms

[brg444]

That's basic business. The bitcoins the ASICs manufacturers are sitting on is considered it's inventory. Company needs liquid cash to pay employees, taxes, cover their costs, and reinvest the remainder into expanding their business model. That would be EXTREMELY risky/suicidal for the CEO of a BIG ASIC company to try and raise more cash from the VCs (at i'm sure very unfavorable terms) instead of a logical thing, like selling your own inventory at profit. That's just not how businesses works. Sure small guys/solo miners in basement can risk it all, be visionaries and hodl until they make it big or run out of money, but not the big guys. Big guys need stability and to minimize their risks, and stick to their business model. What most likely is happening here is BTC are sold to VCs at a certain locked in rate and VCs are holding the burden of BTCs and the price fluctuation (after all risk management is what they do) and ASIC manufacturer can concentrate on their own business model.

VCs are not there to be nice. And because of their terms should be the last choice when raising capital, after your own capital, then loans from banks, then your last stop is VCs. They're not nice guys who give out free money, more like making a deal with the devil. 

did you read my posts ?

did you read this

BitFury founder and CEO Valery Vavilov indicated that the new funding will allow the company to complete production of its 28nm ASIC chip without selling the reserve bitcoins it has mined from its three industrial-scale data centres.

Vavilov told CoinDesk that it decided not to tap its bitcoin reserves as it remains bullish on the long-term value of bitcoin.

"We believe in the long-term perspective [the price of bitcoin] will grow and we decided to not to sell [our bitcoin] at such a low price," Vavilov added.

do you have any idea how much these guys make from selling mining gears alone?

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[DaRude]

They're trying to get the largest market share, and as stated their costs are bellow $400. By selling they're raising capital to expand, as long as it's above their costs they're at profit (and get the benefit of squeezing other guys out). It's a win/win sell at (some) profit and guarantee more profit. They're not wall street to play the risk game. Even if they were true believers VCs would force them to sell.

They don't necessarily have to sell to raise capital. As previously stated, all of these major companies have millions from selling mining gears.

They're not wall street to play the risk game. Even if they were true believers VCs would force them to sell.

I'm sorry but this is not true. BitFury, probably the biggest venture backed mining company is not selling ANY of the coins they mine.

That's basic business. The bitcoins the ASICs manufacturers are sitting on is considered it's inventory. Company needs liquid cash to pay employees, taxes, cover their costs, and reinvest the remainder into expanding their business model. That would be EXTREMELY risky/suicidal for the CEO of a BIG ASIC company to try and raise more cash from the VCs (at i'm sure very unfavorable terms) instead of a logical thing, like selling your own inventory at profit. That's just not how businesses works. Sure small guys/solo miners in basement can risk it all, be visionaries and hodl until they make it big or run out of money, but not the big guys. Big guys need stability and to minimize their risks, and stick to their business model. What most likely is happening here is BTC are sold to VCs at a certain locked in rate and VCs are holding the burden of BTCs and the price fluctuation (after all risk management is what they do) and ASIC manufacturer can concentrate on their own business model.

VCs are not there to be nice. And because of their terms should be the last choice when raising capital, after your own capital, then loans from banks, then your last stop is VCs. They're not nice guys who give out free money, more like making a deal with the devil. 

Also notion that they're so profitable that they don't need any more money is flawed too. If you're sitting on lots of money do you
A-use that to expand your business model. Build not one but 10 mega farms and go after the 20%, 30% of the pie.
B-use the profit to squeeze out competition
C-just keep it in BTC and hope it plays out in your favor

Again the bigger they are, and the more control you gave up to VCs the less likely you can do C even if you wanted to

[brg444]

Again the bigger they are, and the more control you gave up to VCs the less likely you can do C even if you wanted to

This is your own assumption.

The reality is that literally the biggest out there (at least that we know of) is not selling his inventory of coins.

[DaRude]

That's basic business. The bitcoins the ASICs manufacturers are sitting on is considered it's inventory. Company needs liquid cash to pay employees, taxes, cover their costs, and reinvest the remainder into expanding their business model. That would be EXTREMELY risky/suicidal for the CEO of a BIG ASIC company to try and raise more cash from the VCs (at i'm sure very unfavorable terms) instead of a logical thing, like selling your own inventory at profit. That's just not how businesses works. Sure small guys/solo miners in basement can risk it all, be visionaries and hodl until they make it big or run out of money, but not the big guys. Big guys need stability and to minimize their risks, and stick to their business model. What most likely is happening here is BTC are sold to VCs at a certain locked in rate and VCs are holding the burden of BTCs and the price fluctuation (after all risk management is what they do) and ASIC manufacturer can concentrate on their own business model.

VCs are not there to be nice. And because of their terms should be the last choice when raising capital, after your own capital, then loans from banks, then your last stop is VCs. They're not nice guys who give out free money, more like making a deal with the devil. 

did you read my posts ?

did you read this

BitFury founder and CEO Valery Vavilov indicated that the new funding will allow the company to complete production of its 28nm ASIC chip without selling the reserve bitcoins it has mined from its three industrial-scale data centres.

Vavilov told CoinDesk that it decided not to tap its bitcoin reserves as it remains bullish on the long-term value of bitcoin.

"We believe in the long-term perspective [the price of bitcoin] will grow and we decided to not to sell [our bitcoin] at such a low price," Vavilov added.

do you have any idea how much these guys make from selling mining gears alone?

That's awesome so one CEO has enough balls and control to do that. But is it sustainable? How long do you think he can hold out at current prices? What if the market moves against him? How much of a down swing can he absorb before BEING FORCED to start liquidate his core business, dropping funds for R&D, laying off employees etc...? NotLambchop's trolling had some merit, you got to be more skeptical when reading releases from the CEO, their jobs is to paint pretty pictures. With that said i'm a bull, it's natural for supply to dwindle when price goes down hope their profits were good enough so they can hold out.

[brg444]

That's awesome so one CEO has enough balls and control to do that. But is it sustainable? How long do you think he can hold out at current prices? What if the market moves against him? How much of a down swing can he absorb before BEING FORCED to start liquidate his core business, dropping funds for R&D, laying off employees etc...? NotLambchop's trolling had some merit, you got to be more skeptical when reading releases from the CEO, their jobs is to paint pretty pictures. With that said i'm a bull, it's natural for supply to dwindle when price goes down hope their profits were good enough so they can hold out.

BitFury could stop mining and be a VERY profitable business.

As I've mentionned above, mining is an extra curricular activity to them.

They are most likely one of the top 3 suppliers of mining parts in the WORLD. That's enough cash to pursue their business model while betting on bitcoin on the side.

[brg444]

The only negative impact I find is the effect it has on the environment.

Most of these are using renewable sources of energy now so it really is not that bad.

[NotLambchop]

...VERY... WORLD...

Try bigass red bold font AND ALL CAPS 4 TRUTH²



*Lol @ "it's renewable"

[brg444]

...VERY... WORLD...

Try bigass red bold font AND ALL CAPS 4 TRUTH²



*Lol @ "it's renewable"

BitFury & KNC farms are in Iceland, Finland, Sweden & Georgia and are mostly powered by hydroelectricity.

Why are you making this so easy, troll?

You are such a novice troll.

[NotLambchop]

"Mostly powered by hydroelectricity?"  Care to cite your sources?

KNC:  Nothing in Iceland, Sweeden--"About 25 percent of energy production is categorized to be renewable energy."
Georgia:  "Georgia Power generates more than 1,100 megawatts (MW) of renewable energy, representing about 7 percent of its generating capacity."

Keep 'em coming

[brg444]

"Mostly powered by hydroelectricity?"  Care to cite your sources?

BitFury

We are the leader in constructing and managing data centers for bitcoin mining operation. Specially designed for mining needs, our data centers are managed 24/7 by our dedicated staff and are located in strategic international locations close to inexpensive renewable energy sources.

http://www.bitfury.org/products

BitFury chose Republic of Georgia a location with abundant hydro power and very competitive energy prices

https://vimeo.com/104009961

KNC

“We searched all over the world for a suitable place to build the first of many of our own mega data centers, and to find the best location lying right here in our home country is fantastic,” said Sam Cole, one of the co-founders at KnC Miner. “Our highly advanced technology consumes a lot of energy, so for us it was imminent to find a production site with access to renewable yet stable and safe energy. We have had an incredible amount of support from The Node Pole representatives, local companies and the government here in Boden.”

The Node Pole initiative seeks to market Sweden as a destination for data center development, leveraging the region’s abundance of stable and competitively priced electricity from renewable energy.

http://www.datacenterknowledge.com/archives/2014/02/06/bitcoin-miners-building-10-megawatt-data-center-sweden/

Renewable Hydropower
Sweden has the highest share of electricity generated from renewable sources in Europe, and 7 000 MW is generated from renewable energy sources in The Node Pole region. The main power source, Luleå River, is twice the size of the Hoover Dam in the USA, and generates 4200 MW of green electricity, free from CO2 emissions. In fact, the whole of Norrbotten has an energy surplus of up to 50% thanks to the river. Due to this, industries in The Node Pole can increase energy use, without increasing emissions.

http://thenodepole.com/regional-qualities/electricity-and-infrastructure/

Maybe they're all lying too 

 

You're so basic, troll

[brg444]

"Mostly powered by hydroelectricity?"  Care to cite your sources?

KNC:  Nothing in Iceland, Sweeden--"About 25 percent of energy production is categorized to be renewable energy."
Georgia:  "Georgia Power generates more than 1,100 megawatts (MW) of renewable energy, representing about 7 percent of its generating capacity."

Keep 'em coming

 

you need to refine your google skills it seems, troll

[brg444]

Don't you realise this is a trend mining farms are forced to follow.

Renewable energy = cheap energy = lower mining costs = profit.

[NotLambchop]

OK, wrong on Georgia. 

[NotLambchop]

...
you need to refine your google skills it seems, troll

Feel free to post links to better data

[brg444]

...
you need to refine your google skills it seems, troll

Feel free to post links to better data

Well here you go, troll

It can be boldly stated that Georgia is a "hydro powered" country. On average, 85% of the country's total energy consumption is supplied by domestic hydropower plants.

http://www.hydroworld.com/articles/print/volume-21/issue-01/articles/russia---central-asia/georgian-hydropower-turns-river.html

KNC farms are located in the Node Pole region and... shall I really quote myself?

[NotLambchop]

...
KNC farms are located in the Node Pole region and... shall I really quote myself?

Please do.  Link?

[brg444]

Our farms are naturally cooled by the surrounding arctic air and exclusively powered by renewable energy.

https://www.kncminer.com/news/news-102

KnCMiner’s center will reside inside the Arctic Circle in Boden, Sweden. Housed in a former army hangar, the massive facility’s energy needs are basically taking care of for the company. Solar power, low-cost hydroelectric power and the cold allow for these “mega data centers” usually needed for the high-demand of Bitcoin mining, and the virtually endless data needs of Facebook,  to flourish in the cold, while keeping costs of operations down.

http://www.datacenters.com/news/featured/its-green-at-the-top-of-world-cold-hard-bitcoin-data-centers-and-renewable-energy/

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

...
you need to refine your google skills it seems, troll

Feel free to post links to better data

Well here you go, troll

It can be boldly stated that Georgia is a "hydro powered" country. On average, 85% of the country's total energy consumption is supplied by domestic hydropower plants.

http://www.hydroworld.com/articles/print/volume-21/issue-01/articles/russia---central-asia/georgian-hydropower-turns-river.html

KNC farms are located in the Node Pole region and... shall I really quote myself?

Cheap, sustainable renewable energy? All is lost

[brg444]

Well here you go, troll

It can be boldly stated that Georgia is a "hydro powered" country. On average, 85% of the country's total energy consumption is supplied by domestic hydropower plants.

http://www.hydroworld.com/articles/print/volume-21/issue-01/articles/russia---central-asia/georgian-hydropower-turns-river.html

KNC farms are located in the Node Pole region and... shall I really quote myself?

Cheap, sustainable renewable energy? All is lost
[/quote]

But LambChop says it's only a sales pitch 




 

[NotLambchop]

Our farms are naturally cooled by the surrounding arctic air and exclusively powered by renewable energy.

https://www.kncminer.com/news/news-102

Lol, that's their pitch for their new cloud mining farm.  Reading comprehension fail.

One of their real farms is what you have pictured below.  The link you offered is another pitch, all I see is "will reside."
Now highlight the part stating renewable energy is actually being used

KnCMiner’s center will reside inside the Arctic Circle in Boden, Sweden. Housed in a former army hangar, the massive facility’s energy needs are basically taking care of for the company. Solar power, low-cost hydroelectric power and the cold allow for these “mega data centers” usually needed for the high-demand of Bitcoin mining, and the virtually endless data needs of Facebook,  to flourish in the cold, while keeping costs of operations down.

http://www.datacenters.com/news/featured/its-green-at-the-top-of-world-cold-hard-bitcoin-data-centers-and-renewable-energy/

P.S:  Sam said plenty of things, along with the fact that they would only mine if the network was being threatened and that KNC would never compete with its customers.  That worked out pretty well, drop by the KNC thread and say hi, tell'em I sent you