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Author Topic: Are hashlets worth it?  (Read 9829 times)
jimmothy
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October 28, 2014, 10:14:22 PM
 #21

When I am in this section of forum all I see is raging and crying people: "cloud mining is a ponzi, they are scammers". And all it comes from people who never invested anything in any cloud mining service at all. Why is that?

Why is it that gullible noobs keep falling for the same ponzi schemes over and over and over again?

Why is it that whenever someone brings up valid points about the shadyness of a cloudmining company, cloudmining evangelists refuse to take part in the constructive discussion/debate?

I think you will find that it's not some dedicated group of "haters" with an ulterior motive like you evangelists have convinced yourselves. It's the people who have been around long enough to see the dozens of identical cloudmining ponzi schemes come and go, along with the victims of those scams.

There are several cloudmining operations that nobody thinks are a ponzi, here are a few:

https://hashnest.com
https://amhash.com
https://cloudhashing.com/
http://mining.cointerra.com/shop/
https://www.kncminer.com/categories/cloud-mining

Why do you think there aren't countless ponzi scheme accusations against those companies? Could it have to do with the fact that those companies have proven their legitimacy via a mining address?

If you don't like it when someone has a different opinion, I'd suggest removing yourself from the forums completely. Go back to hashtalk where anything that is not in full support of GAW is censored.
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jimmothy
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October 28, 2014, 10:32:11 PM
 #22

And is any cloud mining company asking for money? I don't think so.

That's simply wrong. Literally every cloudmining company is asking for money. I dare you to find me a cloudmining company that will not take my money.

No it's not wrong, you are wrong. They are not ASKING for money. They are offering services for money, which means you are deciding whether you want to invest or not.

When you have no proof of the company actually mining, I wouldn't call it investing, it's gambling based on promises.

Quote
What you did here was ignore my polite request to refrain from accusing them of being ponzi until you find a proof to support your claim.
So I'll ask again, unless you're here to troll, show me some evidence.

As I'm sure you know, the top priority of a ponzi is to not give evidence of being a ponzi.

So here's a better question: Show me the evidence that GAW is NOT a ponzi.

I want hard proof like a mining address which cannot possibly be faked. (PS: pics of a datacenter don't count)

Quote
I don't know the PB business model, but what I know is that they don't have an office and don't reveal their address or the names of owners. GAW on the other hand has revealed the location of 2 of their data centers and their main office, they also openly reveal the names of employees and show their pictures. What is more, the CEO has spoken on 2 bitcoin conferences last month and answered questions live.

So? Sure being anonymous can help when running a ponzi but it's not a requirement. In fact most ponzis I can think of had non-anonymous CEO's.

A recent example would be Danny Brewster. He made his identity completely public, attended several bitcoin events, even had an store in Cyprus, and one day *poof* he's gone along with several thousand BTC.

If GAW wanted to dispel all ponzi accusations they would release a mining address. But they refuse to which is a massive red flag and indicator of being a ponzi.
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October 29, 2014, 03:41:05 PM
 #23

This whole essay by jimmothy can be summed up in just few sentences.
Let me paraphrase some of your claims:

1. "some people accused GAW of being a ponzi, so it must be true"
Never trust things you read on a public forum. I personally saw people with signatures of one mining company furiously attacking another. I could easily find examples of such behavior.

2. "I can't prove it but it's GAW that has to prove they are not a ponzi"
You're wrong. It's the accusing side that has to provide proof, otherwise it can be viewed as slander.

3. "They refuse to dispell the accusations so we will accuse them more"
This is a simple blackmail. You want to pressure them, they ignore you, so you're trying to launch a smear campaign...

4. "They may have a data center full of miners, but it's not a proof they are mining"
Ok, so they are using them as really expensive heaters, be it your way.  Grin

You can have your doubts or suspicions, but there's a big difference between this and what you're doing here. You're openly calling them something they are not, or according to your lack of proof, may or may not be.
So next time, be factual.


Oh yeah, and linking some "reputable" companies like KNC and Cointerra really helps here... Not.

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October 29, 2014, 04:30:14 PM
 #24

When I am in this section of forum all I see is raging and crying people: "cloud mining is a ponzi, they are scammers". And all it comes from people who never invested anything in any cloud mining service at all. Why is that?

Why is it that gullible noobs keep falling for the same ponzi schemes over and over and over again?

Why is it that whenever someone brings up valid points about the shadyness of a cloudmining company, cloudmining evangelists refuse to take part in the constructive discussion/debate?

I think you will find that it's not some dedicated group of "haters" with an ulterior motive like you evangelists have convinced yourselves. It's the people who have been around long enough to see the dozens of identical cloudmining ponzi schemes come and go, along with the victims of those scams.

There are several cloudmining operations that nobody thinks are a ponzi, here are a few:

https://hashnest.com
https://amhash.com
https://cloudhashing.com/
http://mining.cointerra.com/shop/
https://www.kncminer.com/categories/cloud-mining

Why do you think there aren't countless ponzi scheme accusations against those companies? Could it have to do with the fact that those companies have proven their legitimacy via a mining address?

If you don't like it when someone has a different opinion, I'd suggest removing yourself from the forums completely. Go back to hashtalk where anything that is not in full support of GAW is censored.

You answer a question with a question and call that "constructive discussion/debate". I must have missed the constructive part.
Are you really linked some MEGA shady/scammy companies like KNC or cointerra? Really? Look what happened in the past, you don't have to be cloud mining company to scam people. KNC scammed people with hardware as well and you are calling them legit now? Ok... I have no further questions here.

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October 29, 2014, 06:02:15 PM
 #25

Hi everyone, I'm looking to start mining, and the cloud miners, by GAW miners (the hashlet) look like a good deal. How long do you have these miners? 5 years? Also, are there any hidden fees I should be aware about? Thanks!

As you can see from the answers and the other thread, You will probably regret spending your money on this...

Do what is best for yourself.. and check back in with us on what you think about your ROI if you buy in. Tongue

Hint you can buy a 300khz Gridseed for about the same price and make a better RIO than with GAWS.



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jimmothy
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October 29, 2014, 06:47:29 PM
 #26

This whole essay by jimmothy can be summed up in just few sentences.
Let me paraphrase some of your claims:

1. "some people accused GAW of being a ponzi, so it must be true"
Never trust things you read on a public forum. I personally saw people with signatures of one mining company furiously attacking another. I could easily find examples of such behavior.

My suggestion would be never to trust a company that has created their own forum for censorship purposes.

There's literally never been a case where a company made their own forum and they turned out to be entirely trustworthy/not scammers.

GAW has been accused repeatedly of being a ponzi by tons of expert bitcoiners, miners, and even GAW customers. Does that make it a fact? Of course not, but it's a strong hint.

Quote
2. "I can't prove it but it's GAW that has to prove they are not a ponzi"
You're wrong. It's the accusing side that has to provide proof, otherwise it can be viewed as slander.

GAW has dressed themselves up like a ponzi and you think I'm doing something illegal by stating the obvious?

Is it also slanderous to call the sky blue?

Quote
3. "They refuse to dispell the accusations so we will accuse them more"
This is a simple blackmail. You want to pressure them, they ignore you, so you're trying to launch a smear campaign...

Clearly you don't understand blackmail or freedom of speech. I'm free to have whatever opinion I like and so are you.

Only a complete idiot would think asking a company prove they are not a ponzi equals blackmail or a smear campaign.

What you are doing is excusing GAW's shady/unethical/unexplained behavior.

I estimate more than 100,000 btc has been lost due to bitcoin scams in the past year and easily preventable cloudmining ponzis make up a huge portion of that.

Quote
4. "They may have a data center full of miners, but it's not a proof they are mining"
Ok, so they are using them as really expensive heaters, be it your way.  Grin

It is evidence of mining I'll give them that, the question is with how much?

Are they mining with 60GH/s scrypt or 1 gh/s? Is it hosted miners or cloudmining?

Who knows. All you have to base your "investment" on is promises stacked on promises.

Quote
You can have your doubts or suspicions, but there's a big difference between this and what you're doing here. You're openly calling them something they are not, or according to your lack of proof, may or may not be.
So next time, be factual.

Quote
12 Warning Signs An Investment Is A Scam
http://www.forbes.com/pictures/mjf45egim/pay-attention-2/

1. High returns are "guaranteed."
2. A fellow Baptist is pitching you.
3. A stock went public in a reverse merger.
4. There's a claim of "breakthrough technology."
5. Numbers are hard to come by.
6. Investment methodology makes no sense or is unexplained.
7. Who's that auditor?
8. A long-running offer isn't registered.
9. Act now or else!
10. Your money is going overseas.
11. If all you're finding is favorable information put out by its promoters
12. It sounds too good to be true.

Remember all GAW has to do is provide a mining address just like every other legit cloudmining company. There's absolutely no reason not to. (unless they have something to hide)

Quote
Oh yeah, and linking some "reputable" companies like KNC and Cointerra really helps here... Not.

Regardless of how shitty both companies are, they are not ponzis. They have proven they have hardware and it's time GAW does the same.

Please just stop supporting scammers. Even if GAW is legit, their business model setting a standard (or lack of standards) that allows scammers to thrive.

If you can come up with a single logical (and ethical) reason why GAW or any other cloudmining company might want to hide their mining address, then I'll leave GAW alone.
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October 29, 2014, 08:00:50 PM
 #27

Hi everyone, I'm looking to start mining, and the cloud miners, by GAW miners (the hashlet) look like a good deal. How long do you have these miners? 5 years? Also, are there any hidden fees I should be aware about? Thanks!

As you can see from the answers and the other thread, You will probably regret spending your money on this...

This other thread?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=752824.0

Or maybe this one?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=750909.180

Looks like people are quite happy with GAW.

And for your information GAW has sold to thousands of clients, so it's normal a few % of the reviews to be negative.


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jimmothy
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October 29, 2014, 08:14:50 PM
 #28

Hi everyone, I'm looking to start mining, and the cloud miners, by GAW miners (the hashlet) look like a good deal. How long do you have these miners? 5 years? Also, are there any hidden fees I should be aware about? Thanks!

As you can see from the answers and the other thread, You will probably regret spending your money on this...

This other thread?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=752824.0

Or maybe this one?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=750909.180

Looks like people are quite happy with GAW.

And for your information GAW has sold to thousands of clients, so it's normal a few % of the reviews to be negative.

Or what about this thread? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=765856.20

Or this one? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=752233.0

Or what about this entire subreddit that used to be filled with GAW fanatics but is now filled with customers who think it's a scam? https://www.reddit.com/r/GAWMiners/

Also for your information, GAW's incredible amount negative feedback/ponzi accusations is anything but normal. (well it's normal for a scam)

Why do you think Hashnest, Cointerra, KNC, Cloudhashing, and other legit cloudmining companies don't have nearly as much, if any, negative feedback/ponzi accusations?
bitgeek
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October 29, 2014, 08:54:16 PM
 #29


These 2 threads have more positive opinions than negative. You're just proving my point here, thanks Smiley


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October 29, 2014, 08:58:39 PM
 #30

Hi everyone, I'm looking to start mining, and the cloud miners, by GAW miners (the hashlet) look like a good deal. How long do you have these miners? 5 years? Also, are there any hidden fees I should be aware about? Thanks!

As you can see from the answers and the other thread, You will probably regret spending your money on this...

This other thread?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=752824.0

Or maybe this one?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=750909.180

Looks like people are quite happy with GAW.

And for your information GAW has sold to thousands of clients, so it's normal a few % of the reviews to be negative.

Or what about this thread? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=765856.20

Or this one? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=752233.0

Or what about this entire subreddit that used to be filled with GAW fanatics but is now filled with customers who think it's a scam? https://www.reddit.com/r/GAWMiners/

Also for your information, GAW's incredible amount negative feedback/ponzi accusations is anything but normal. (well it's normal for a scam)

Why do you think Hashnest, Cointerra, KNC, Cloudhashing, and other legit cloudmining companies don't have nearly as much, if any, negative feedback/ponzi accusations?

What are you guys in such an uproar about? I use the service too and regret it! Just my experience with their service so far,
BTW: I will be happy to sell my Hashlettes to you.

As far as 1000's of clients... Bernie Madoff had 1000s of clients and supporters too and look how that turned out.

Yeah let him read all those non GAWs threads and make up his own mind.




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October 29, 2014, 09:04:36 PM
 #31

Yeah let him read all those non GAWs threads and make up his own mind.

So all these threads where people have positive opinions and recommend them are "GAW's". Cheesy You got the nerve!

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October 29, 2014, 09:12:30 PM
 #32

Yeah let him read all those non GAWs threads and make up his own mind.

So all these threads where people have positive opinions and recommend them are "GAW's". Cheesy You got the nerve!

LOL typo... But maybe he will like cheerleaders and the kool aid they serve on the GAWS modded forums? IDK  Huh
Obviously some people do? But that still doesnt put Coins in your wallet.




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October 29, 2014, 09:15:22 PM
 #33


These 2 threads have more positive opinions than negative. You're just proving my point here, thanks Smiley

You don't mean this point do you?

Quote
And for your information GAW has sold to thousands of clients, so it's normal a few % of the reviews to be negative.

Looking at those threads it's pretty obvious that it's a bit more than "a few %" of negative reviews. In fact many of the positive posts come from the same people championing GAW in this thread now.

When ~50% of your potential customers are skeptical or think your company is a ponzi, the logical response would be to prove you are not a ponzi.
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October 29, 2014, 09:19:05 PM
 #34

When ~50% of your potential customers are skeptical or think your company is a ponzi, the logical response would be to prove you are not a ponzi.
Please prove that ~50% of their customers think they are a ponzi.
They had a few thousand, good luck Wink

Why do you think Hashnest, Cointerra, KNC, Cloudhashing, and other legit cloudmining companies don't have nearly as much, if any, negative feedback/ponzi accusations?

KNC was accused of intentionally delaying their shipment to mine with customer's hardware.
Cointerra faced a class action lawsuit.
Cloudhashing reviews: http://www.cloudminingreviews.com/cloudhashing-com/

CloudHashing stopped making payouts SEP5 2014 and is not answering why. It’s not just me, many people have not seen payouts. I thought the RRP would be the best chance to stay ahead of the difficulty curve and they were the most reliable. I guess the ones you trust can harm you the most. Anyway hope it’s just a glitch on top of an upgrade or something but I can’t imagine why they have gone dark. Thought I’d come back to correct my ill-timed review.

Cloudhashing is awful. I purchased a $999 contract in January 2014. So far my earnings are 0.18 BTC (or $81 currently). I wrote to them a few days ago asking why my ROI is so exceptionally poor. Have not heard back.
8 months in, I’ve made $80. After my 1 year contract is up, at this rate, I will have ‘made’ $120. A net loss of $880.



Really?




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October 29, 2014, 09:22:48 PM
 #35

Yeah let him read all those non GAWs threads and make up his own mind.

So all these threads where people have positive opinions and recommend them are "GAW's". Cheesy You got the nerve!

LOL typo... But maybe he will like cheerleaders and the kool aid they serve on the GAWS modded forums? IDK  Huh
Obviously some people do? But that still doesnt put Coins in your wallet.

Don't they pay you for positive/liked comments?

I read that if the CEO likes your comment you are given $1 and if people dislike your comment you lose money and eventually get banned.

If that doesn't work you can try your luck clicking buttons and playing arbitrary games to earn money.
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October 29, 2014, 09:42:11 PM
 #36

Yeah let him read all those non GAWs threads and make up his own mind.

So all these threads where people have positive opinions and recommend them are "GAW's". Cheesy You got the nerve!

LOL typo... But maybe he will like cheerleaders and the kool aid they serve on the GAWS modded forums? IDK  Huh
Obviously some people do? But that still doesnt put Coins in your wallet.

Don't they pay you for positive/liked comments?

I read that if the CEO likes your comment you are given $1 and if people dislike your comment you lose money and eventually get banned.

If that doesn't work you can try your luck clicking buttons and playing arbitrary games to earn money.

Ah that is good to know! So they are mining positive comments.... so I can sell my Multihash miner and have the CEO throw shiny trinkets and money at me if I make him happy with my comments?
Perhaps they should market to the Justin Bieber fan base, it seems to be a similar marketing plan?

Ok Joe M. never mind todays mining results, throw me a shiny trinket for giving you, your new marketing plan! 




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October 30, 2014, 12:49:27 AM
 #37

Yeah let him read all those non GAWs threads and make up his own mind.

So all these threads where people have positive opinions and recommend them are "GAW's". Cheesy You got the nerve!

LOL typo... But maybe he will like cheerleaders and the kool aid they serve on the GAWS modded forums? IDK  Huh
Obviously some people do? But that still doesnt put Coins in your wallet.

Don't they pay you for positive/liked comments?

I read that if the CEO likes your comment you are given $1 and if people dislike your comment you lose money and eventually get banned.

If that doesn't work you can try your luck clicking buttons and playing arbitrary games to earn money.

Haha, great idea. But if that was really true don't you think there will be thousands of people praising the GAW for the money? For now I can see only clients who like GAW, clients expressing a constructive criticism and  haters/trolls. Seriously now, your theorycrafting is so good that soon you will be telling us that GAW was founded by the CIA or something like that...

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October 30, 2014, 02:38:19 AM
 #38

Yeah let him read all those non GAWs threads and make up his own mind.

So all these threads where people have positive opinions and recommend them are "GAW's". Cheesy You got the nerve!

LOL typo... But maybe he will like cheerleaders and the kool aid they serve on the GAWS modded forums? IDK  Huh
Obviously some people do? But that still doesnt put Coins in your wallet.

Don't they pay you for positive/liked comments?

I read that if the CEO likes your comment you are given $1 and if people dislike your comment you lose money and eventually get banned.

If that doesn't work you can try your luck clicking buttons and playing arbitrary games to earn money.

Haha, great idea. But if that was really true don't you think there will be thousands of people praising the GAW for the money? For now I can see only clients who like GAW, clients expressing a constructive criticism and  haters/trolls. Seriously now, your theorycrafting is so good that soon you will be telling us that GAW was founded by the CIA or something like that...

I know it's hard to admit you're part of a scam/cult but I'm not "theorycrafting".

https://hashtalk.org/topic/4059/hashpoints-inofficial-faq

Quote
Q: How much Hashpoints do I earn for upvotes?
A: 1 upvote=1 Hashpoint
GAWCEO upvote = 100 Hashpoints

Q: What are HashPoints Worth?
A: Currently 1 HP = $0.01USD

And I've just found the biggest red flag yet:

Quote
Q:** How do I get Hashpoints?**
A: You earn Hashpoints for keeping your bitcoin in ZenCloud
and for upvotes in Hashtalk.

Every legit pool/cloudmining company makes it clear that they are NOT a bank and that you should remove your BTC ASAP.

GAW on the other hand is pretending to be a bank and wants you to store as much BTC in their cloudmining service as possible.

I'm not sure how people haven't put 2 and 2 together on this one.
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October 30, 2014, 07:28:49 AM
 #39

I learnt my lesson with them.

The CEO is untrustworthy IMO.

He did not treat me well, I would not spend a cent there.
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October 30, 2014, 09:47:26 AM
 #40


Every legit pool/cloudmining company makes it clear that they are NOT a bank and that you should remove your BTC ASAP.

GAW on the other hand is pretending to be a bank and wants you to store as much BTC in their cloudmining service as possible.

I'm not sure how people haven't put 2 and 2 together on this one.

They are really trying to make mining fun for you, so there are many different features to choose from. You get points for keeping your money there as a BONUS. You don't have to do it, but if you choose to, or simply forget to withdraw, you'll get points, that you can use as a store discount. IMO it's a great feature that makes them unique.

I'll say this again.

You don't have to register on hashtalk - it's optional.
You don't have to collect and use hashpoints.
You don't have to keep your money in the cloud, a lot of their clients withdraw daily.

All those features are available for those who want to do something more than simply take their daily payout and forget about it.

Side note: You might want to check out GAW's latest purchase - 5 PH/s from Bitmain Wink

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=827552
https://hashtalk.org/topic/12390/bitmain-confirmation/197

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