Are hashlets worth it?

[Slark]

That's not true at all. If you have ever visited the mining section you would know that.

Seems you just really don't want people to know about the massive risks/red flags involved with this "investment".

Are you seeing red flags/risks everywhere? Well probably you should, because it is bitcoin world, and investing here is risky as hell. We may lose everything tomorrow after all if bitcoin crashes. And without risk there is no gain too.

[jimmothy]

All cryptocurrency investments (holding bitcoins included) are cathegorized as "high risk investments".
Massive risk? Obviously you've never traded altcoins.

But normally risk is proportionate to reward.

With mining you are looking at a lifetime profit of 10-20% but could also result in a ~50% loss so already the risk/reward ratio is poor. Adding the massive risk of GAW being a ponzi makes the risk/reward ratio about as poor as it can get.

With hashlets, the risk/reward is basically like flipping a coin, heads you win $5, tails you lose $50.

[EvilPanda]

With hashlets, the risk/reward is basically like flipping a coin, heads you win $5, tails you lose $50.

What would you say to all these people who invested and got 120% or more out of it? We're talking about hundreds of people here.
I thought that ponzis are being financed with their money so it's impossible for the majority of investors to profit...

[jimmothy]

With hashlets, the risk/reward is basically like flipping a coin, heads you win $5, tails you lose $50.

What would you say to all these people who invested and got 120% or more out of it? We're talking about hundreds of people here.
I thought that ponzis are being financed with their money so it's impossible for the majority of investors to profit...

Because no ponzi in the history of ponzis has given great returns to the few early birds right?

Compare the current returns to the past where people where able to ROI. Early birds were able to turn a profit in ~1 month, new customers are looking at ~1-2 years until they break even at current rates.

There is of course a chance that GAW decides to lower the fees/increase payouts but it's equally likely that they decide to make fees 99% of what you earn and/or are a ponzi and run with the money. GAW CEO is the puppet master of your ROI and there's nothing you can do about it.

[EvilPanda]

With hashlets, the risk/reward is basically like flipping a coin, heads you win $5, tails you lose $50.

What would you say to all these people who invested and got 120% or more out of it? We're talking about hundreds of people here.
I thought that ponzis are being financed with their money so it's impossible for the majority of investors to profit...

Because no ponzi in the history of ponzis has given great returns to the few early birds right?

Compare the current returns to the past where people where able to ROI. Early birds were able to turn a profit in ~1 month, new customers are looking at ~1-2 years until they break even at current rates.

There is of course a chance that GAW decides to lower the fees/increase payouts but it's equally likely that they decide to make fees 99% of what you earn and/or are a ponzi and run with the money. GAW CEO is the puppet master of your ROI and there's nothing you can do about it.

In GAW's case over 50% of investors got their money back and then some. In a pyramid scheme those early birds are financed by the crowd that comes after them, so it's impossible for even 50 % of them to get out with profit, and in this case they did.
On the other hand if the payouts and fees stay the way there are there won't be any new customers.

[ajw7989]

GAW is not a ponzy. They are one of the most reputable altcoin guys around. Now whether investing in hashlets now will give an ROI is a different story. I actually was an early investor and sold all hashlets a week ago. I made ROI because I got primes for 16 each. However GAW may be overreaching themselves with their plans now and you can bet they will have their share of problems. Whether you want to join them for that ride is up to you but they wont scam you.

[jimmothy]

With hashlets, the risk/reward is basically like flipping a coin, heads you win $5, tails you lose $50.

What would you say to all these people who invested and got 120% or more out of it? We're talking about hundreds of people here.
I thought that ponzis are being financed with their money so it's impossible for the majority of investors to profit...

Because no ponzi in the history of ponzis has given great returns to the few early birds right?

Compare the current returns to the past where people where able to ROI. Early birds were able to turn a profit in ~1 month, new customers are looking at ~1-2 years until they break even at current rates.

There is of course a chance that GAW decides to lower the fees/increase payouts but it's equally likely that they decide to make fees 99% of what you earn and/or are a ponzi and run with the money. GAW CEO is the puppet master of your ROI and there's nothing you can do about it.

In GAW's case over 50% of investors got their money back and then some. In a pyramid scheme those early birds are financed by the crowd that comes after them, so it's impossible for even 50 % of them to get out with profit, and in this case they did.
On the other hand if the payouts and fees stay the way there are there won't be any new customers.

So what you're telling me is that you have access to GAW's real financials? I'm 99.0% sure you just pulled that number out of your ass to make a point.

Sidenote: did you catch the person using 4 shill acounts to promote GAW yet? In case you missed it: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=720844.msg9464539#msg9464539

[jimmothy]

GAW is not a ponzy. They are one of the most reputable altcoin guys around. Now whether investing in hashlets now will give an ROI is a different story. I actually was an early investor and sold all hashlets a week ago. I made ROI because I got primes for 16 each. However GAW may be overreaching themselves with their plans now and you can bet they will have their share of problems. Whether you want to join them for that ride is up to you but they wont scam you.

No that's, that's absolutely not true.

Go to anywhere on this forum/reddit/investment advisors and they will all tell you the same thing, GAW is untrustworthy.

Some noobs here have yet to get scammed in the bitcoin world so it's understandable they can miss/ignore the mountain of red flags, but please for the sake of the community, don't drag other naive/gullible noobs into the scam.

Look at https://www.reddit.com/r/GAWMiners/ if you want a better understanding of the situation. That place used to be a haven for GAW zealots to unite and share praise for the company but they could only ignore the waves of red flags hitting them in the face for so long before coming back to their senses.

[EvilPanda]

1. If you think it's not true, then you haven't seen any ROI tracking threads.
2. People can promote whatever they like and have as many accounts as they want. It's funny that you point this out but ignore the fact that there are sockpuppet accounts in every bigger thread on this forum. Some are also used to attack GAW, but are very rarely banned, simply because this is not against the rules.
One guy with 4 aliases was recvently banned: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=845185.msg9426078#msg9426078
3. "Go to anywhere on this forum/reddit/investment advisors and they will all tell you the same thing, GAW is untrustworthy". Not true. There are many people on this forum, me included with positive experiences.

You're still ignoring the uncomfortable fact, that GAW is not a small club with 50 customers, but one of the biggest mining companies in the crypto world. Since the beginning of the year when they started to sell miners they offered their services to numerous clients and how many of them reported scams? If you want to play detective do your job right: get a list of people who were scammed by GAW, let's count together how much money they invested and lost. I may even apologize to you and say that I was wrong about them. Otherwise we can bounce this ball back and forth for another month.

Don't forget to count those false claims, made by sockpuppets, since you like to expose them. A hint: there were at least 2. 

And to finish, an eye candy for you: https://twitter.com/gawceo/status/530490091266134017/photo/1

[jimmothy]

1. If you think it's not true, then you haven't seen any ROI tracking threads.

I'm not denying the fact that many have seen ROI. I don't know how you couldn't ROI if you bought a prime hashlet at $15. However you are going to need to provide evidence to support your statement that more 50% of people have turned a profit.

2. People can promote whatever they like and have as many accounts as they want. It's funny that you point this out but ignore the fact that there are sockpuppet accounts in every bigger thread on this forum. Some are also used to attack GAW, but are very rarely banned, simply because this is not against the rules.
One guy with 4 aliases was recvently banned: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=845185.msg9426078#msg9426078

That's true but when you get caught shilling you are only damaging your point/credibility. Legit services don't need shills because their service/customers will speak for them.

GAW has plenty of actual supporters and doesn't need shills IMO. I just thought you would be interested to know that someone is taking advantage of your sig campaign.

3. "Go to anywhere on this forum/reddit/investment advisors and they will all tell you the same thing, GAW is untrustworthy". Not true. There are many people on this forum, me included with positive experiences.

I didn't mean 100% of the people will tell you that they are untrustworthy. I mean that the majority feel that way, which is true.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=839849.0

That poll shows that 2/3rd of miners think that a cloudmining company hiding their mining address is a sign of a ponzi, and that's only a single red flag.

You're still ignoring the uncomfortable fact, that GAW is not a small club with 50 customers, but one of the biggest mining companies in the crypto world. Since the beginning of the year when they started to sell miners they offered their services to numerous clients and how many of them reported scams? If you want to play detective do your job right: get a list of people who were scammed by GAW, let's count together how much money they invested and lost. I may even apologize to you and say that I was wrong about them. Otherwise we can bounce this ball back and forth for another month.

I'm not ignoring anything. The size of the company says nothing about it's legitimacy. Lunamine had hundreds of naive/gullible customers before collapsing, would you say they are trustworthy? What about bitcoin-trader.biz? Or cryptcominer?

You can't blame me for thinking GAW is a ponzi when they've taken every precaution to dress themselves up as one. There is absolutely no reason they need to have 500 red flags when other cloudmining companies can operate with transparency/integrity.

[I_IZ_CEO]

Thank you jimmothy for bringing out these points and like I have said before other TRUSTED people in the BTC community have also said many non-positive things about the company. As far as panda.... Gave me bad trust for no reason at all, have not had any dealing with her for a while (this was 1 day after I said "jimmothy ripped new ass on some shill posters, I guess panda took it personal). Abuse of the trust system and as everyone can see makes money from Gaw.

[martindaniel667]

Hi everyone, I'm looking to start mining, and the cloud miners, by GAW miners (the hashlet) look like a good deal. How long do you have these miners? 5 years? Also, are there any hidden fees I should be aware about? Thanks!

I will Prefer pbmining over hashlets....BTC

[Furio]

Hi everyone, I'm looking to start mining, and the cloud miners, by GAW miners (the hashlet) look like a good deal. How long do you have these miners? 5 years? Also, are there any hidden fees I should be aware about? Thanks!

I will Prefer pbmining over hashlets....BTC

PBmining or LTCgear.com, both much better

[ajw7989]

Hi everyone, I'm looking to start mining, and the cloud miners, by GAW miners (the hashlet) look like a good deal. How long do you have these miners? 5 years? Also, are there any hidden fees I should be aware about? Thanks!

I will Prefer pbmining over hashlets....BTC

PBmining or LTCgear.com, both much better

I agree both are a much better investment although a different type. These are the true sense of mining. The best way to make ROI in GAW is trading like an btc exchange. The way the payouts are in GAW you wont ROI on mining alone unlike in pbmining and ltcgear where you most likely will

[EvilPanda]

I'm not denying the fact that many have seen ROI. I don't know how you couldn't ROI if you bought a prime hashlet at $15. However you are going to need to provide evidence to support your statement that more 50% of people have turned a profit.

I got this info from the man himself. I haven't seen any complaints both here and on hashtalk and there's plenty of evidence in the ROI tracking threads (you could contact philipma1957 for more details, he was one of the early investors, who provided evidence of the payouts). If you bought hashlets in August or September you've already reached ROI or are very close to it. I've also talked to a number of people who had hosted  hardware before the hashlets came out and all of them are past ROI.
Also note, that most of GAW's sales came at the time of vaultbreakers and the innitial hashlet boom, when they openly promised to take care of their clients. If you bought at that period you profited, there's no other way.
On the other hand cuttent payouts aren't looking good, so hashcoin, or an increased demand on the marketplace are the only ways for October buyers to profit.

That's true but when you get caught shilling you are only damaging your point/credibility. Legit services don't need shills because their service/customers will speak for them.
GAW has plenty of actual supporters and doesn't need shills IMO. I just thought you would be interested to know that someone is taking advantage of your sig campaign.

I've been running sig campaigns for 8 months now and had a number of such cases. On one hand it looks like a scam when somebody acts like 2 different people to gat paid, on the other he has to do twice more to get it. I didn't include a rule forbidding sockpuppets, because it's hard to prove unless he makes a mistake. Anyway, thanks for the info.

I didn't mean 100% of the people will tell you that they are untrustworthy. I mean that the majority feel that way, which is true.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=839849.0

That poll shows that 2/3rd of miners think that a cloudmining company hiding their mining address is a sign of a ponzi, and that's only a single red flag.

That poll is based the votes of 35 people, that's not enough to draw conclusions, especially that just 10 more votes would tip the scales in the other direction. What are 10 votes compared to a couple hundred GAW's investors. Also in your first post you basically stated your opinion and supported it with Gavin's statement, so I'm not surprised most people voted in your favour.

I'm not ignoring anything. The size of the company says nothing about it's legitimacy. Lunamine had hundreds of naive/gullible customers before collapsing, would you say they are trustworthy? What about bitcoin-trader.biz? Or cryptcominer?

You can't blame me for thinking GAW is a ponzi when they've taken every precaution to dress themselves up as one. There is absolutely no reason they need to have 500 red flags when other cloudmining companies can operate with transparency/integrity.

I don't blame you, we're just talking here. I have my opinion you have yours, but you're exagerating. 500 red flags? Give me the first 100 and I'll believe there's as many as you said.  
So how many of their clients can prove they were scammed by GAW? So far the only scam claims were false, and posted from newly created accounts. That should tell you something.

[jimmothy]

I'm not denying the fact that many have seen ROI. I don't know how you couldn't ROI if you bought a prime hashlet at $15. However you are going to need to provide evidence to support your statement that more 50% of people have turned a profit.

I got this info from the man himself. I haven't seen any complaints both here and on hashtalk and there's plenty of evidence in the ROI tracking threads (you could contact philipma1957 for more details, he was one of the early investors, who provided evidence of the payouts). If you bought hashlets in August or September you've already reached ROI or are very close to it. I've also talked to a number of people who had hosted  hardware before the hashlets came out and all of them are past ROI.
Also note, that most of GAW's sales came at the time of vaultbreakers and the innitial hashlet boom, when they openly promised to take care of their clients. If you bought at that period you profited, there's no other way.

So basically your only proof comes from trusting the word of a guy who has fabricated stories in the past?

Source:

We already reached out to Amazon, Walmart and Target for all three to give us an official response. I'll put it this way, one of them said (off the record for now) if GAW keeps using the XYZ name as a "partner" they will be forced to take legal action.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2l7myv/can_we_talk_about_gaw/cls7nq6

On the other hand current payouts aren't looking good, so hashcoin, or an increased demand on the marketplace are the only ways for October buyers to profit.

So you are basically admitting that there is no hope to profit at current rates unless the price goes through the roof which is unlikely because they are so unprofitable.

Why is it that GAW can no longer offer competitive rates?

That poll is based the votes of 35 people, that's not enough to draw conclusions, especially that just 10 more votes would tip the scales in the other direction. What are 10 votes compared to a couple hundred GAW's investors. Also in your first post you basically stated your opinion and supported it with Gavin's statement, so I'm not surprised most people voted in your favour.

I didn't really state my opinion I just included all the facts. Many people just aren't aware of how easy it is to anonymously prove a cloudmining company is actually mining.

Of course bitcoins lead developers opinion should be taken seriously and you cannot pretend that the cloudmining world is not full of ponzis like he says.

I don't blame you, we're just talking here. I have my opinion you have yours, but you're exagerating. 500 red flags? Give me the first 100 and I'll believe there's as many as you said.  
So how many of their clients can prove they were scammed by GAW? So far the only scam claims were false, and posted from newly created accounts. That should tell you something.

500 was obviously an exaggeration but I think 100 is actually possible and I'm tempted to make a list to find out.

As for how many people have been scammed, it really depends on your definition of a scam. They haven't outright stolen peoples money but they have acquired it via false advertising/promises/gimmicks. You could argue that it's not scamming, just bad business practices, but either way makes them untrustworthy.

GAW could have just ran a solid cloudmining company focused on giving their customers the chance to profit via prices only possible through massive economies of scale (like the original plan) but instead they just added a bunch of gimmicks/promises combined with aggressive/misleading marketing.

[EvilPanda]

So basically your only proof comes from trusting the word of a guy who has fabricated stories in the past?

Source:

We already reached out to Amazon, Walmart and Target for all three to give us an official response. I'll put it this way, one of them said (off the record for now) if GAW keeps using the XYZ name as a "partner" they will be forced to take legal action.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2l7myv/can_we_talk_about_gaw/cls7nq6

So your source is a hearsay. How does that prove he fabricated anything?

I expected you to read the rest and not base the response on just the first sentence.

I haven't seen any complaints both here and on hashtalk and there's plenty of evidence in the ROI tracking threads (you could contact philipma1957 for more details, he was one of the early investors, who provided evidence of the payouts). If you bought hashlets in August or September you've already reached ROI or are very close to it. I've also talked to a number of people who had hosted  hardware before the hashlets came out and all of them are past ROI.
Also note, that most of GAW's sales came at the time of vaultbreakers and the innitial hashlet boom, when they openly promised to take care of their clients. If you bought at that period you profited, there's no other way.

So you are basically admitting that there is no hope to profit at current rates unless the price goes through the roof which is unlikely because they are so unprofitable.

Why is it that GAW can no longer offer competitive rates?

1. Why are you putting in my mouth words that were never said? The payouts would simply have to increase a bit, preferably to the point before the lasth month's bitcoin crash.
2. You'll have to ask GAW.

I didn't really state my opinion I just included all the facts. Many people just aren't aware of how easy it is to anonymously prove a cloudmining company is actually mining.
Of course bitcoins lead developers opinion should be taken seriously and you cannot pretend that the cloudmining world is not full of ponzis like he says.

You are using it to support your claims, so if you find it convenient you have to at least partially agree with it.
Yes it is, but don't forget there are more legit companies than scams.

500 was obviously an exaggeration but I think 100 is actually possible and I'm tempted to make a list to find out.

As for how many people have been scammed, it really depends on your definition of a scam. They haven't outright stolen peoples money but they have acquired it via false advertising/promises/gimmicks. You could argue that it's not scamming, just bad business practices, but either way makes them untrustworthy.

GAW could have just ran a solid cloudmining company focused on giving their customers the chance to profit via prices only possible through massive economies of scale (like the original plan) but instead they just added a bunch of gimmicks/promises combined with aggressive/misleading marketing.

Let me know if you make the list. I don't think even real scams can have a 100.

That's why I'm arguing. Whoever wanted to sell could do it and leave. Most mining companies don't offer this option, so when GAW launched Hashlets they were one of the best and safest companies for cloud mining. They also allowed you to purchase with a credit card, which is a feature most sites don't offer.

They paid out more money than they aquired, and used the funds (this may shock you) not to run away, but buy more miners, invest in the company, which makes them trustworthy in my view.

Did you even try their services?

[jimmothy]

So basically your only proof comes from trusting the word of a guy who has fabricated stories in the past?

Source:

We already reached out to Amazon, Walmart and Target for all three to give us an official response. I'll put it this way, one of them said (off the record for now) if GAW keeps using the XYZ name as a "partner" they will be forced to take legal action.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2l7myv/can_we_talk_about_gaw/cls7nq6

So your source is a hearsay. How does that prove he fabricated anything?

This isn't a court, so hearsay is perfectly acceptable evidence. Keep in mind this is coming from the only bitcoin journal with integrity and the same people who brought the BFL/FTC fiasco to light.

I haven't seen any complaints both here and on hashtalk and there's plenty of evidence in the ROI tracking threads (you could contact philipma1957 for more details, he was one of the early investors, who provided evidence of the payouts). If you bought hashlets in August or September you've already reached ROI or are very close to it. I've also talked to a number of people who had hosted  hardware before the hashlets came out and all of them are past ROI.
Also note, that most of GAW's sales came at the time of vaultbreakers and the innitial hashlet boom, when they openly promised to take care of their clients. If you bought at that period you profited, there's no other way.

If you haven't seen complaints on here you clearly haven't been looking or you're intentionally ignoring them.

https://www.reddit.com/r/GAWMiners/ You can find plenty of complaints on this page alone.

Please stop with the bullshit argument that "some early birds have turned a profit, therefore most people must have turned a profit".

You have no idea how many people have and have not turned a profit so quit pretending you do based on a flimsy conjecture.

So you are basically admitting that there is no hope to profit at current rates unless the price goes through the roof which is unlikely because they are so unprofitable.

1. Why are you putting in my mouth words that were never said? The payouts would simply have to increase a bit, preferably to the point before the lasth month's bitcoin crash.

You're basically admitting it again. You are admitting that without divine intervention from the all mighty CEO there is no chance of turning a profit.

All you need is to hope/prey/sacrifice and maybe you're god will grant you ROI.

I didn't really state my opinion I just included all the facts. Many people just aren't aware of how easy it is to anonymously prove a cloudmining company is actually mining.
Of course bitcoins lead developers opinion should be taken seriously and you cannot pretend that the cloudmining world is not full of ponzis like he says.

You are using it to support your claims, so if you find it convenient you have to at least partially agree with it.
Yes it is, but don't forget there are more legit companies than scams.

You must be mistaken, there are much more scams than legit companies. I see a new cloudmining scam pop up weekly yet I only know of something like a dozen legit operations. There are more cloudmining ponzis that have already collapsed than there are legit companies.

They paid out more money than they aquired, and used the funds (this may shock you) not to run away, but buy more miners, invest in the company, which makes them trustworthy in my view.

Again, please stop with the bullshit conjecture.

As for not running with the funds, yes they haven't done it so far but that doesn't mean they wont. Hell they've already done it before:



If you guessed they took that $40k check, promised progress/updates for months, and 6 months later disappeared with no evidence of having done anything, then you guessed correctly.

You can read up more here: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/ashfield-broadband/gaw|sort:date

[EvilPanda]

This isn't a court, so hearsay is perfectly acceptable evidence. Keep in mind this is coming from the only bitcoin journal with integrity and the same people who brought the BFL/FTC fiasco to light.

I wouldn't call them that and prefer coindesk. I also don't follow gossip

If you haven't seen complaints on here you clearly haven't been looking or you're intentionally ignoring them.
https://www.reddit.com/r/GAWMiners/ You can find plenty of complaints on this page alone.
Please stop with the bullshit argument that "some early birds have turned a profit, therefore most people must have turned a profit".
You have no idea how many people have and have not turned a profit so quit pretending you do based on a flimsy conjecture.

And how many of these complaints were answered and bugs fixed?

Here's an example (the recent complaint)

"I am currently unable to withdraw my BTC earnings. The message I get when trying is: You do not have enough in your account to complete this transaction."
-There is a withdrawal fee of like .0001 btc. Your withdrawal amount must leave at least enough to cover the fee.
-This worked, thank you! I've never had to do this before.. is this a new requirement?

Looks like you see only the things you want

I have seen a lot of fake complaints coming from people who just registered and/or couldn't show a single proof. If that's a complaint in your view then GAW has plenty.
Moreover, over a 100 posts from different people who profited and no posts from people who bought hashlets 2 months ago or earlier and haven't.

You're basically admitting it again. You are admitting that without divine intervention from the all mighty CEO there is no chance of turning a profit.
All you need is to hope/prey/sacrifice and maybe you're god will grant you ROI.

More sarcasm please.
The payouts dropped without his intervention so its not needed for them to go back to that point again.

You must be mistaken, there are much more scams than legit companies. I see a new cloudmining scam pop up weekly yet I only know of something like a dozen legit operations. There are more cloudmining ponzis that have already collapsed than there are legit companies.

You can find over 30 functioning cloud mining sites at the moment.
In your view almost all of them are scams? That's extremely skeptical.

Again, please stop with the bullshit conjecture.
As for not running with the funds, yes they haven't done it so far but that doesn't mean they wont. Hell they've already done it before:
https://i.imgur.com/Og9F7Yp.jpg
If you guessed they took that $40k check, promised progress/updates for months, and 6 months later disappeared with no evidence of having done anything, then you guessed correctly.
You can read up more here: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/ashfield-broadband/gaw|sort:date

Haha that's bullshit IMO. They owned a registered, legit business and never run anywhere. I think they sold the company, but I might be wrong.
Anyway, if somebody had a proof, they'd have simply made them return the check, start a case in court and so on.
Btw. $40k? They recently paid over 1 million for a domain and probably twice that for their Bitmain order.

Oh, and you haven't answered this:
Have you ever tried their services? Did you skip that question because you haven't?

[Etanllah]

While I would agree that the ROI on mining hashlets has dropped dramatically over the past month or 2 I still believe that you can earn money from GAW Hashlets. First, if Hashcoin ends up being even remotely decent hashlet owners will be able to make a profit. Also, Prime owners can certainly make a profit if their price keeps increasing. Someone people have been able to buy them at $35 and last I saw they were $45.