Are hashlets worth it?

[James222]

Hi everyone, I'm looking to start mining, and the cloud miners, by GAW miners (the hashlet) look like a good deal. How long do you have these miners? 5 years? Also, are there any hidden fees I should be aware about? Thanks!

[jonnybravo0311]

You have them until you sell them.  Fees are $0.08 per MH/s for the scrypt hashlets and $0.01 per 5GH/s for the SHA hashlets.  You buy the scrypt hashlets by the MH/s.  The ZenHashlet is $17.95.

[AirFlame]

I use GAW for some time and I can honestly recommend them for Mining

[baltimoreppc]

I would spread out on cloud mining service..dont put everything in one basket. 

[Snorek]

I am totally convinced there are nothing more interesting on the market right now. GAW is just leading crypto company and you can't go wrong when you invest in their miners.

[moko666]

you should have a look at pbmining
they offer great service at affordable prices

[jimmothy]

Do we need another hashlets/cloudmining thread every day?

Anyways I'd recommend http://amhash.com/index.html

Unlike pbmining and hashlets, amhash is not a ponzi. (If you care about that sort of thing)

[bitgeek]

Do we need another hashlets/cloudmining thread every day?

Anyways I'd recommend http://amhash.com/index.html

Unlike pbmining and hashlets, amhash is not a ponzi. (If you care about that sort of thing)

Would you stop with this ponzi crap talk already?
I could call you a scammer, but I don't do it because I can't prove it. Sounds fair?

[jimmothy]

Do we need another hashlets/cloudmining thread every day?

Anyways I'd recommend http://amhash.com/index.html

Unlike pbmining and hashlets, amhash is not a ponzi. (If you care about that sort of thing)

Would you stop with this ponzi crap talk already?
I could call you a scammer, but I don't do it because I can't prove it. Sounds fair?

Now why would I stop talking about ponzis while there's still an abundance of them plaguing bitcoin?

I should say that I have no proof that hashlets is a ponzi but there's just too much funny business and gimmicks to trust it IMO.

PBmining on the other hand has in fact paid out "mining earnings" directly from new customer payments (aka the definition of a ponzi). That is before they implemented the fancy coinmixer into their service.

You are free to call me a scammer but that wouldn't really make sense as I'm not asking anyone for money.

[Snorek]

Do we need another hashlets/cloudmining thread every day?

Anyways I'd recommend http://amhash.com/index.html

Unlike pbmining and hashlets, amhash is not a ponzi. (If you care about that sort of thing)

Would you stop with this ponzi crap talk already?
I could call you a scammer, but I don't do it because I can't prove it. Sounds fair?

Now why would I stop talking about ponzis while there's still an abundance of them plaguing bitcoin?

I should say that I have no proof that hashlets is a ponzi but there's just too much funny business and gimmicks to trust it IMO.

PBmining on the other hand has in fact paid out "mining earnings" directly from new customer payments (aka the definition of a ponzi). That is before they implemented the fancy coinmixer into their service.

You are free to call me a scammer but that wouldn't really make sense as I'm not asking anyone for money.

I don't know about PB mining and your statement about them may be true. But I never heard that GAW scammed someone or did no pay or things like that. What are these gunny gimmicks and business you are talking about with GAW? I am asking because I have really good experience with GAW so far...

[jimmothy]

Here's a rant I pretty much agree with:

Whatever you do, don't say that over there.

They go on and on about everything Josh has "done for us", and how "any day now" ZenPool is going to "rebound".

The problems. They're all all temporary, see. (Sure.) If you wait just a LITTLE longer, the new "features" will come and we'll all just be rolling in the BTC, and all the doubters will be so, so sorry. (Uhuh. Right.)

Tons of promises. SHA on Primes. Project Prime. Nebulous "feature upgrades" wink wink nudge nudge. Pull the lever and see if you win. Press a button like a trained lab rat on the miner you paid $50/Mh for and you get 1.25Mh/s for the day instead of 1Mh/s for the day. Red rockets. Trade miners as if they were coins themselves. Halloween Zombie Hashlets!! (Oh my god. Give me a f**king break.)

Josh says "if you don't like that, leave" - but a lot of us invested when it was just damn plain old mining. So we're already "in", before things went full retard. But I guess a lot of people really would rather have "FUN" and "INTERACTIVITY" versus ROI, because mining's gotta be like Farmville.

And the forum - don't get me started on the forum. If you get upvoted, you get money. If you get dowvoted, you lose money. Right outta your account. (Okay. hashpoints, which are 1 cent each. Now you can mine those, too! Store credit! It's digital GAW-only fiat, and people are "mining" it! And thanking Josh for the privilege!) If the CEO likes your post, you get a dollar, like a good boy who finished his supper. If too many people downvote you, you get banned. Automatically. No human intervention.

In fact, I should stop talking here - I'd hate for my GAW account to fall down the stairs and have an accident. I firmly believe that kind of crap is going on over there.

And I really used to be a GAW fan.

Writing's on the wall. Remember, investors who had just been fleeced stood outside of Ponzi's office supporting him right after he took all of their money, too. Many of them even offered him more.

The magical unicorn dust is starting to wear off, and very soon now - it's really not going to be pretty.

Thank you. This is unfolding quickly due to the fast pace GAW seems to try to maneuver at.

To me, the first sign was the rapid and ridiculous increase in Hashlet Primes (originally just "hashlets", which started out simply as cloud 1Mh/s Scrypt) from $16 to $25 to $30 to $40... When the jumps to $30 and $40 happened, Josh began "hinting" that Primes would be worth a ton someday, due to "Project Prime" (originally set to be revealed Oct. 23) that he had in store.

This started a little bit of a buying frenzy, and Josh unbelievably raised the price to $50. That $50 bought you 1Mh/s of Scrypt, and untold Mh/s of "nudge nudge, you'll-be-glad-ya-did" vague "promises" that Prime would somehow be worth more than the $50 you paid.

People bought.

"Project Prime" never happened.

Primes were discontinued and pulled from the market (Probably on legal advice, as he baited people to buy them with blue-sky promises, when they actually did not do anything more than a ZenHashlet.)

Those who bought $30, $40, $50 "Primes" were left holding the bag.

Josh doesn't really talk about "Primes" anymore, now that they aren't sold.

He added a few buttons to Primes, that allows you to get a 1.05-1.25 Mh/s per day rate (boost and double dip) IF you remember to log in and twaddle with your miners. He claims that the real value in Primes are that they are worth $50!! (Fiat, anyone?) - and you can sell them on the marketplace. Like his "Legendary Hashlets", they're "worth more because they're worth more" and are "Rare". Most of the people still standing at Hashtalk still champion this idea of "miners as a currency", for no reason whatsoever. Likely hoping for a $1 upvote from Josh.

Primes still don't actually DO anything special, except for a few worthless "fun buttons". They are expensive Zen Hashlets.

The next mirage to dissolve was ZenPool, the pool that paid nearly twice what every other pool did! Magically! Of course, Josh is saying right now that this is only "temporary". But you too can now buy 1MH/s of mining for $21, whereas the rest of the world is charging $7 to 15 (some even $5), for the privilege of having the Pool with a Promise!

The Promise that sometime soon, it'll pay "a lot more" again! (Josh is never specific.)

The crowd at hashtalk worships the ground he walks on. He of course can do no wrong, and is tirelessly breaking his back for the little guy. (sure.)

He made a bold announcement that he was going to take other companies to task, and "bring back ROI". Right now, GAW has the highest entry fee and lowest ROI of any cloud mining option out there.

The emperor has no clothes. This is all going to hit the wall soon.

https://www.reddit.com/r/GAWMiners/comments/2kamlm/wtf_is_going_on_with_zenminer/

[bitgeek]

Do we need another hashlets/cloudmining thread every day?

Anyways I'd recommend http://amhash.com/index.html

Unlike pbmining and hashlets, amhash is not a ponzi. (If you care about that sort of thing)

Would you stop with this ponzi crap talk already?
I could call you a scammer, but I don't do it because I can't prove it. Sounds fair?

Now why would I stop talking about ponzis while there's still an abundance of them plaguing bitcoin?

I should say that I have no proof that hashlets is a ponzi but there's just too much funny business and gimmicks to trust it IMO.

PBmining on the other hand has in fact paid out "mining earnings" directly from new customer payments (aka the definition of a ponzi). That is before they implemented the fancy coinmixer into their service.

You are free to call me a scammer but that wouldn't really make sense as I'm not asking anyone for money.

And is any cloud mining company asking for money? I don't think so.
If you don't trust it that's of course your choice and nobody will force you to invest in anything, but I'd appreciate if you didn't call a legitimate company a scam or a ponzi unless you have a real proof to support the claim. There's too much trolling on this forum already.

[SquallLeonhart]

Prefer pbmining over hashlets.

[notlist3d]

I wish "cloud" mining would let you pick what to point it to, and see results from pool.    Being able to use it to mine dodge, ltc, btc, and many more coins on any pool. 

[jimmothy]

And is any cloud mining company asking for money? I don't think so.

That's simply wrong. Literally every cloudmining company is asking for money. I dare you to find me a cloudmining company that will not take my money.

If you don't trust it that's of course your choice and nobody will force you to invest in anything, but I'd appreciate if you didn't call a legitimate company a scam or a ponzi unless you have a real proof to support the claim. There's too much trolling on this forum already.

I'm not nearly the only one with a problem with GAWs gimmicky/shady business model. Look at https://www.reddit.com/r/GAWMiners/ . That subreddit used to be filled with hardcore fanboys like hashtalk is, but now everyone thinks it's a scam.

Look at what GAW/Hashlets has done so far in the mining space. The CEO has announced at least 10 revolutionary/technological breakthroughs but literally all he's done is create the 50th overpriced cloudmining company and added a shit ton of arbitrary games so you can have fun clicking/wasting time to earn your money back.

How much of this is actually mining and how much of it is GAW's CEO's little game where he gets to pretend to be god?

Boost Speed - Boost for X period of time, for X price.
Double Pool - Mine two pools at once. Must be two different pools.
Rapid Pay - Instant payout right now, based on yesterdays rates (forfeit current day payout). Can only be used once per week.
Hashlet Spawn - Split your prime into random number/type of Hashlet Solos for X time.
Delay Pay - Delay payout for X days for X% more payout.
Time Stop - Lock the current pool payout rate for X period of time.
Random Boost - Hashlets have the ability to boost at random.
Fee Drop - No maintenance fee for X days.
Fee Defer - Defer maintenance fee for X days.

https://hashtalk.org/topic/7714/prime-price-change-vote

The CEO is trying his hardest to turn a simple cloudmining company into a cult and he is succeeding.

We are going to run a campaign on real life stories about how GAW has change the industry, helped make a difference in your life, and helped you find your ROI

https://hashtalk.org/topic/5911/tell-us-your-story

[baltimoreppc]

Well said..they were ok when they start out by selling miner at lost..I guess they need to recoup their initial lost.

And is any cloud mining company asking for money? I don't think so.

That's simply wrong. Literally every cloudmining company is asking for money. I dare you to find me a cloudmining company that will not take my money.

If you don't trust it that's of course your choice and nobody will force you to invest in anything, but I'd appreciate if you didn't call a legitimate company a scam or a ponzi unless you have a real proof to support the claim. There's too much trolling on this forum already.

I'm not nearly the only one with a problem with GAWs gimmicky/shady business model. Look at https://www.reddit.com/r/GAWMiners/ . That subreddit used to be filled with hardcore fanboys like hashtalk is, but now everyone thinks it's a scam.

Look at what GAW/Hashlets has done so far in the mining space. The CEO has announced at least 10 revolutionary/technological breakthroughs but literally all he's done is create the 50th overpriced cloudmining company and added a shit ton of arbitrary games so you can have fun clicking/wasting time to earn your money back.

How much of this is actually mining and how much of it is GAW's CEO's little game where he gets to pretend to be god?

Boost Speed - Boost for X period of time, for X price.
Double Pool - Mine two pools at once. Must be two different pools.
Rapid Pay - Instant payout right now, based on yesterdays rates (forfeit current day payout). Can only be used once per week.
Hashlet Spawn - Split your prime into random number/type of Hashlet Solos for X time.
Delay Pay - Delay payout for X days for X% more payout.
Time Stop - Lock the current pool payout rate for X period of time.
Random Boost - Hashlets have the ability to boost at random.
Fee Drop - No maintenance fee for X days.
Fee Defer - Defer maintenance fee for X days.

https://hashtalk.org/topic/7714/prime-price-change-vote

The CEO is trying his hardest to turn a simple cloudmining company into a cult and he is succeeding.

We are going to run a campaign on real life stories about how GAW has change the industry, helped make a difference in your life, and helped you find your ROI

https://hashtalk.org/topic/5911/tell-us-your-story

[jimmothy]

Prefer pbmining over hashlets.

I'd have to agree. They are both ponzis but unlike hashlets, PBmining isn't full of arbitrary games that make you work for your money and it's not a brainwashing cult. You just sit back, relax, and hope it doesn't collapse before you break even.

Here's evidence PBmining is a ponzi in case anyone is curious:

https://bitiodine.net/a2a/1BaconNYiSsZoq79K9LuEEp7RyGjKuwodJ/1Payday1sm5wGqtatKscfXnxARZ2B2MF3z
https://bitiodine.net/a2a/1HammmJ8zaGVHicRxTPRDMdfGCujrfZc8y/1Payday1sm5wGqtatKscfXnxARZ2B2MF3z
https://bitiodine.net/a2a/1PBackwRV1rHvDpqkYRTR9WCEEEMEwuSrJ/1Payday1sm5wGqtatKscfXnxARZ2B2MF3z
https://bitiodine.net/a2a/1Bacon6DCo11jrXMvm39sgTxhRG9bRjQWy/1Payday1sm5wGqtatKscfXnxARZ2B2MF3z
https://bitiodine.net/a2a/1FeedQtUArhfWVGuVH13dX8dbf5XqqqJSq/1Payday1sm5wGqtatKscfXnxARZ2B2MF3z
https://bitiodine.net/a2a/1Porky8h4XMoM1RbtTHe7ZpPAe7DpE79Hb/1Payday1sm5wGqtatKscfXnxARZ2B2MF3z
https://bitiodine.net/a2a/1BaconH9L8CQ9eGJkjDqN28Pw8v8Rzbp6f/1Payday1sm5wGqtatKscfXnxARZ2B2MF3z
https://bitiodine.net/a2a/1Bacont6QxTg3SxfqEG5gfiqefGMCeSNqs/1Payday1sm5wGqtatKscfXnxARZ2B2MF3z
https://bitiodine.net/a2a/1PiGgYR36C3VdCP9k2zQLrp1ZvDQNdQsre/1Payday1sm5wGqtatKscfXnxARZ2B2MF3z
https://bitiodine.net/a2a/1BaconV3vARfyvKDMCbfZ5rE6acstH6GFV/1Payday1sm5wGqtatKscfXnxARZ2B2MF3z
https://bitiodine.net/a2a/1PorkyB6s8Tb7JU8QiBpreD159iW6aaSWt/1Payday1sm5wGqtatKscfXnxARZ2B2MF3z

^ those are all instances where PBmining has paid "mining earnings" directly from new customer payments.

[alesx.onfire]

hashlet was good at $16 usd, like 2 months ago,

All the people who trusted in GAW, is ROI'ng right now with the current prices of "primes" 40+ USD each.

[bitgeek]

And is any cloud mining company asking for money? I don't think so.

That's simply wrong. Literally every cloudmining company is asking for money. I dare you to find me a cloudmining company that will not take my money.

No it's not wrong, you are wrong. They are not ASKING for money. They are offering services for money, which means you are deciding whether you want to invest or not.

What you did here was ignore my polite request to refrain from accusing them of being ponzi until you find a proof to support your claim.
So I'll ask again, unless you're here to troll, show me some evidence.

I don't know the PB business model, but what I know is that they don't have an office and don't reveal their address or the names of owners. GAW on the other hand has revealed the location of 2 of their data centers and their main office, they also openly reveal the names of employees and show their pictures. What is more, the CEO has spoken on 2 bitcoin conferences last month and answered questions live.

[Snorek]

When I am in this section of forum all I see is raging and crying people: "cloud mining is a ponzi, they are scammers". And all it comes from people who never invested anything in any cloud mining service at all. Why is that?

[jimmothy]

When I am in this section of forum all I see is raging and crying people: "cloud mining is a ponzi, they are scammers". And all it comes from people who never invested anything in any cloud mining service at all. Why is that?

Why is it that gullible noobs keep falling for the same ponzi schemes over and over and over again?

Why is it that whenever someone brings up valid points about the shadyness of a cloudmining company, cloudmining evangelists refuse to take part in the constructive discussion/debate?

I think you will find that it's not some dedicated group of "haters" with an ulterior motive like you evangelists have convinced yourselves. It's the people who have been around long enough to see the dozens of identical cloudmining ponzi schemes come and go, along with the victims of those scams.

There are several cloudmining operations that nobody thinks are a ponzi, here are a few:

https://hashnest.com
https://amhash.com
https://cloudhashing.com/
http://mining.cointerra.com/shop/
https://www.kncminer.com/categories/cloud-mining

Why do you think there aren't countless ponzi scheme accusations against those companies? Could it have to do with the fact that those companies have proven their legitimacy via a mining address?

If you don't like it when someone has a different opinion, I'd suggest removing yourself from the forums completely. Go back to hashtalk where anything that is not in full support of GAW is censored.

[jimmothy]

And is any cloud mining company asking for money? I don't think so.

That's simply wrong. Literally every cloudmining company is asking for money. I dare you to find me a cloudmining company that will not take my money.

No it's not wrong, you are wrong. They are not ASKING for money. They are offering services for money, which means you are deciding whether you want to invest or not.

When you have no proof of the company actually mining, I wouldn't call it investing, it's gambling based on promises.

What you did here was ignore my polite request to refrain from accusing them of being ponzi until you find a proof to support your claim.
So I'll ask again, unless you're here to troll, show me some evidence.

As I'm sure you know, the top priority of a ponzi is to not give evidence of being a ponzi.

So here's a better question: Show me the evidence that GAW is NOT a ponzi.

I want hard proof like a mining address which cannot possibly be faked. (PS: pics of a datacenter don't count)

I don't know the PB business model, but what I know is that they don't have an office and don't reveal their address or the names of owners. GAW on the other hand has revealed the location of 2 of their data centers and their main office, they also openly reveal the names of employees and show their pictures. What is more, the CEO has spoken on 2 bitcoin conferences last month and answered questions live.

So? Sure being anonymous can help when running a ponzi but it's not a requirement. In fact most ponzis I can think of had non-anonymous CEO's.

A recent example would be Danny Brewster. He made his identity completely public, attended several bitcoin events, even had an store in Cyprus, and one day *poof* he's gone along with several thousand BTC.

If GAW wanted to dispel all ponzi accusations they would release a mining address. But they refuse to which is a massive red flag and indicator of being a ponzi.

[EvilPanda]

This whole essay by jimmothy can be summed up in just few sentences.
Let me paraphrase some of your claims:

1. "some people accused GAW of being a ponzi, so it must be true"
Never trust things you read on a public forum. I personally saw people with signatures of one mining company furiously attacking another. I could easily find examples of such behavior.

2. "I can't prove it but it's GAW that has to prove they are not a ponzi"
You're wrong. It's the accusing side that has to provide proof, otherwise it can be viewed as slander.

3. "They refuse to dispell the accusations so we will accuse them more"
This is a simple blackmail. You want to pressure them, they ignore you, so you're trying to launch a smear campaign...

4. "They may have a data center full of miners, but it's not a proof they are mining"
Ok, so they are using them as really expensive heaters, be it your way.  

You can have your doubts or suspicions, but there's a big difference between this and what you're doing here. You're openly calling them something they are not, or according to your lack of proof, may or may not be.
So next time, be factual.


Oh yeah, and linking some "reputable" companies like KNC and Cointerra really helps here... Not.

[Slark]

When I am in this section of forum all I see is raging and crying people: "cloud mining is a ponzi, they are scammers". And all it comes from people who never invested anything in any cloud mining service at all. Why is that?

Why is it that gullible noobs keep falling for the same ponzi schemes over and over and over again?

Why is it that whenever someone brings up valid points about the shadyness of a cloudmining company, cloudmining evangelists refuse to take part in the constructive discussion/debate?

I think you will find that it's not some dedicated group of "haters" with an ulterior motive like you evangelists have convinced yourselves. It's the people who have been around long enough to see the dozens of identical cloudmining ponzi schemes come and go, along with the victims of those scams.

There are several cloudmining operations that nobody thinks are a ponzi, here are a few:

https://hashnest.com
https://amhash.com
https://cloudhashing.com/
http://mining.cointerra.com/shop/
https://www.kncminer.com/categories/cloud-mining

Why do you think there aren't countless ponzi scheme accusations against those companies? Could it have to do with the fact that those companies have proven their legitimacy via a mining address?

If you don't like it when someone has a different opinion, I'd suggest removing yourself from the forums completely. Go back to hashtalk where anything that is not in full support of GAW is censored.

You answer a question with a question and call that "constructive discussion/debate". I must have missed the constructive part.
Are you really linked some MEGA shady/scammy companies like KNC or cointerra? Really? Look what happened in the past, you don't have to be cloud mining company to scam people. KNC scammed people with hardware as well and you are calling them legit now? Ok... I have no further questions here.

[mutha]

Hi everyone, I'm looking to start mining, and the cloud miners, by GAW miners (the hashlet) look like a good deal. How long do you have these miners? 5 years? Also, are there any hidden fees I should be aware about? Thanks!

As you can see from the answers and the other thread, You will probably regret spending your money on this...

Do what is best for yourself.. and check back in with us on what you think about your ROI if you buy in.

Hint you can buy a 300khz Gridseed for about the same price and make a better RIO than with GAWS.

[jimmothy]

This whole essay by jimmothy can be summed up in just few sentences.
Let me paraphrase some of your claims:

1. "some people accused GAW of being a ponzi, so it must be true"
Never trust things you read on a public forum. I personally saw people with signatures of one mining company furiously attacking another. I could easily find examples of such behavior.

My suggestion would be never to trust a company that has created their own forum for censorship purposes.

There's literally never been a case where a company made their own forum and they turned out to be entirely trustworthy/not scammers.

GAW has been accused repeatedly of being a ponzi by tons of expert bitcoiners, miners, and even GAW customers. Does that make it a fact? Of course not, but it's a strong hint.

2. "I can't prove it but it's GAW that has to prove they are not a ponzi"
You're wrong. It's the accusing side that has to provide proof, otherwise it can be viewed as slander.

GAW has dressed themselves up like a ponzi and you think I'm doing something illegal by stating the obvious?

Is it also slanderous to call the sky blue?

3. "They refuse to dispell the accusations so we will accuse them more"
This is a simple blackmail. You want to pressure them, they ignore you, so you're trying to launch a smear campaign...

Clearly you don't understand blackmail or freedom of speech. I'm free to have whatever opinion I like and so are you.

Only a complete idiot would think asking a company prove they are not a ponzi equals blackmail or a smear campaign.

What you are doing is excusing GAW's shady/unethical/unexplained behavior.

I estimate more than 100,000 btc has been lost due to bitcoin scams in the past year and easily preventable cloudmining ponzis make up a huge portion of that.

4. "They may have a data center full of miners, but it's not a proof they are mining"
Ok, so they are using them as really expensive heaters, be it your way.  

It is evidence of mining I'll give them that, the question is with how much?

Are they mining with 60GH/s scrypt or 1 gh/s? Is it hosted miners or cloudmining?

Who knows. All you have to base your "investment" on is promises stacked on promises.

You can have your doubts or suspicions, but there's a big difference between this and what you're doing here. You're openly calling them something they are not, or according to your lack of proof, may or may not be.
So next time, be factual.

12 Warning Signs An Investment Is A Scam
http://www.forbes.com/pictures/mjf45egim/pay-attention-2/

1. High returns are "guaranteed."
2. A fellow Baptist is pitching you.
3. A stock went public in a reverse merger.
4. There's a claim of "breakthrough technology."
5. Numbers are hard to come by.
6. Investment methodology makes no sense or is unexplained.
7. Who's that auditor?
8. A long-running offer isn't registered.
9. Act now or else!
10. Your money is going overseas.
11. If all you're finding is favorable information put out by its promoters
12. It sounds too good to be true.

Remember all GAW has to do is provide a mining address just like every other legit cloudmining company. There's absolutely no reason not to. (unless they have something to hide)

Oh yeah, and linking some "reputable" companies like KNC and Cointerra really helps here... Not.

Regardless of how shitty both companies are, they are not ponzis. They have proven they have hardware and it's time GAW does the same.

Please just stop supporting scammers. Even if GAW is legit, their business model setting a standard (or lack of standards) that allows scammers to thrive.

If you can come up with a single logical (and ethical) reason why GAW or any other cloudmining company might want to hide their mining address, then I'll leave GAW alone.

[bitgeek]

Hi everyone, I'm looking to start mining, and the cloud miners, by GAW miners (the hashlet) look like a good deal. How long do you have these miners? 5 years? Also, are there any hidden fees I should be aware about? Thanks!

As you can see from the answers and the other thread, You will probably regret spending your money on this...

This other thread?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=752824.0

Or maybe this one?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=750909.180

Looks like people are quite happy with GAW.

And for your information GAW has sold to thousands of clients, so it's normal a few % of the reviews to be negative.

[jimmothy]

Hi everyone, I'm looking to start mining, and the cloud miners, by GAW miners (the hashlet) look like a good deal. How long do you have these miners? 5 years? Also, are there any hidden fees I should be aware about? Thanks!

As you can see from the answers and the other thread, You will probably regret spending your money on this...

This other thread?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=752824.0

Or maybe this one?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=750909.180

Looks like people are quite happy with GAW.

And for your information GAW has sold to thousands of clients, so it's normal a few % of the reviews to be negative.

Or what about this thread? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=765856.20

Or this one? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=752233.0

Or what about this entire subreddit that used to be filled with GAW fanatics but is now filled with customers who think it's a scam? https://www.reddit.com/r/GAWMiners/

Also for your information, GAW's incredible amount negative feedback/ponzi accusations is anything but normal. (well it's normal for a scam)

Why do you think Hashnest, Cointerra, KNC, Cloudhashing, and other legit cloudmining companies don't have nearly as much, if any, negative feedback/ponzi accusations?

[bitgeek]

Or what about this thread? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=765856.20

Or this one? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=752233.0

These 2 threads have more positive opinions than negative. You're just proving my point here, thanks

[mutha]

Hi everyone, I'm looking to start mining, and the cloud miners, by GAW miners (the hashlet) look like a good deal. How long do you have these miners? 5 years? Also, are there any hidden fees I should be aware about? Thanks!

As you can see from the answers and the other thread, You will probably regret spending your money on this...

This other thread?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=752824.0

Or maybe this one?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=750909.180

Looks like people are quite happy with GAW.

And for your information GAW has sold to thousands of clients, so it's normal a few % of the reviews to be negative.

Or what about this thread? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=765856.20

Or this one? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=752233.0

Or what about this entire subreddit that used to be filled with GAW fanatics but is now filled with customers who think it's a scam? https://www.reddit.com/r/GAWMiners/

Also for your information, GAW's incredible amount negative feedback/ponzi accusations is anything but normal. (well it's normal for a scam)

Why do you think Hashnest, Cointerra, KNC, Cloudhashing, and other legit cloudmining companies don't have nearly as much, if any, negative feedback/ponzi accusations?

What are you guys in such an uproar about? I use the service too and regret it! Just my experience with their service so far,
BTW: I will be happy to sell my Hashlettes to you.

As far as 1000's of clients... Bernie Madoff had 1000s of clients and supporters too and look how that turned out.

Yeah let him read all those non GAWs threads and make up his own mind.

[Slark]

Yeah let him read all those non GAWs threads and make up his own mind.

So all these threads where people have positive opinions and recommend them are "GAW's". You got the nerve!

[mutha]

Yeah let him read all those non GAWs threads and make up his own mind.

So all these threads where people have positive opinions and recommend them are "GAW's". You got the nerve!

LOL typo... But maybe he will like cheerleaders and the kool aid they serve on the GAWS modded forums? IDK  
Obviously some people do? But that still doesnt put Coins in your wallet.

[jimmothy]

Or what about this thread? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=765856.20

Or this one? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=752233.0

These 2 threads have more positive opinions than negative. You're just proving my point here, thanks

You don't mean this point do you?

And for your information GAW has sold to thousands of clients, so it's normal a few % of the reviews to be negative.

Looking at those threads it's pretty obvious that it's a bit more than "a few %" of negative reviews. In fact many of the positive posts come from the same people championing GAW in this thread now.

When ~50% of your potential customers are skeptical or think your company is a ponzi, the logical response would be to prove you are not a ponzi.

[bitgeek]

When ~50% of your potential customers are skeptical or think your company is a ponzi, the logical response would be to prove you are not a ponzi.

Please prove that ~50% of their customers think they are a ponzi.
They had a few thousand, good luck

Why do you think Hashnest, Cointerra, KNC, Cloudhashing, and other legit cloudmining companies don't have nearly as much, if any, negative feedback/ponzi accusations?

KNC was accused of intentionally delaying their shipment to mine with customer's hardware.
Cointerra faced a class action lawsuit.
Cloudhashing reviews: http://www.cloudminingreviews.com/cloudhashing-com/

CloudHashing stopped making payouts SEP5 2014 and is not answering why. It’s not just me, many people have not seen payouts. I thought the RRP would be the best chance to stay ahead of the difficulty curve and they were the most reliable. I guess the ones you trust can harm you the most. Anyway hope it’s just a glitch on top of an upgrade or something but I can’t imagine why they have gone dark. Thought I’d come back to correct my ill-timed review.

Cloudhashing is awful. I purchased a $999 contract in January 2014. So far my earnings are 0.18 BTC (or $81 currently). I wrote to them a few days ago asking why my ROI is so exceptionally poor. Have not heard back.
8 months in, I’ve made $80. After my 1 year contract is up, at this rate, I will have ‘made’ $120. A net loss of $880.


Really?

[jimmothy]

Yeah let him read all those non GAWs threads and make up his own mind.

So all these threads where people have positive opinions and recommend them are "GAW's". You got the nerve!

LOL typo... But maybe he will like cheerleaders and the kool aid they serve on the GAWS modded forums? IDK  
Obviously some people do? But that still doesnt put Coins in your wallet.

Don't they pay you for positive/liked comments?

I read that if the CEO likes your comment you are given $1 and if people dislike your comment you lose money and eventually get banned.

If that doesn't work you can try your luck clicking buttons and playing arbitrary games to earn money.

[mutha]

Yeah let him read all those non GAWs threads and make up his own mind.

So all these threads where people have positive opinions and recommend them are "GAW's". You got the nerve!

LOL typo... But maybe he will like cheerleaders and the kool aid they serve on the GAWS modded forums? IDK  
Obviously some people do? But that still doesnt put Coins in your wallet.

Don't they pay you for positive/liked comments?

I read that if the CEO likes your comment you are given $1 and if people dislike your comment you lose money and eventually get banned.

If that doesn't work you can try your luck clicking buttons and playing arbitrary games to earn money.

Ah that is good to know! So they are mining positive comments.... so I can sell my Multihash miner and have the CEO throw shiny trinkets and money at me if I make him happy with my comments?
Perhaps they should market to the Justin Bieber fan base, it seems to be a similar marketing plan?

Ok Joe M. never mind todays mining results, throw me a shiny trinket for giving you, your new marketing plan! 

[Slark]

Yeah let him read all those non GAWs threads and make up his own mind.

So all these threads where people have positive opinions and recommend them are "GAW's". You got the nerve!

LOL typo... But maybe he will like cheerleaders and the kool aid they serve on the GAWS modded forums? IDK  
Obviously some people do? But that still doesnt put Coins in your wallet.

Don't they pay you for positive/liked comments?

I read that if the CEO likes your comment you are given $1 and if people dislike your comment you lose money and eventually get banned.

If that doesn't work you can try your luck clicking buttons and playing arbitrary games to earn money.

Haha, great idea. But if that was really true don't you think there will be thousands of people praising the GAW for the money? For now I can see only clients who like GAW, clients expressing a constructive criticism and  haters/trolls. Seriously now, your theorycrafting is so good that soon you will be telling us that GAW was founded by the CIA or something like that...

[jimmothy]

Yeah let him read all those non GAWs threads and make up his own mind.

So all these threads where people have positive opinions and recommend them are "GAW's". You got the nerve!

LOL typo... But maybe he will like cheerleaders and the kool aid they serve on the GAWS modded forums? IDK  
Obviously some people do? But that still doesnt put Coins in your wallet.

Don't they pay you for positive/liked comments?

I read that if the CEO likes your comment you are given $1 and if people dislike your comment you lose money and eventually get banned.

If that doesn't work you can try your luck clicking buttons and playing arbitrary games to earn money.

Haha, great idea. But if that was really true don't you think there will be thousands of people praising the GAW for the money? For now I can see only clients who like GAW, clients expressing a constructive criticism and  haters/trolls. Seriously now, your theorycrafting is so good that soon you will be telling us that GAW was founded by the CIA or something like that...

I know it's hard to admit you're part of a scam/cult but I'm not "theorycrafting".

https://hashtalk.org/topic/4059/hashpoints-inofficial-faq

Q: How much Hashpoints do I earn for upvotes?
A: 1 upvote=1 Hashpoint
GAWCEO upvote = 100 Hashpoints

Q: What are HashPoints Worth?
A: Currently 1 HP = $0.01USD

And I've just found the biggest red flag yet:

Q:** How do I get Hashpoints?**
A: You earn Hashpoints for keeping your bitcoin in ZenCloud
and for upvotes in Hashtalk.

Every legit pool/cloudmining company makes it clear that they are NOT a bank and that you should remove your BTC ASAP.

GAW on the other hand is pretending to be a bank and wants you to store as much BTC in their cloudmining service as possible.

I'm not sure how people haven't put 2 and 2 together on this one.

[bones]

I learnt my lesson with them.

The CEO is untrustworthy IMO.

He did not treat me well, I would not spend a cent there.

[EvilPanda]

Every legit pool/cloudmining company makes it clear that they are NOT a bank and that you should remove your BTC ASAP.

GAW on the other hand is pretending to be a bank and wants you to store as much BTC in their cloudmining service as possible.

I'm not sure how people haven't put 2 and 2 together on this one.

They are really trying to make mining fun for you, so there are many different features to choose from. You get points for keeping your money there as a BONUS. You don't have to do it, but if you choose to, or simply forget to withdraw, you'll get points, that you can use as a store discount. IMO it's a great feature that makes them unique.

I'll say this again.

You don't have to register on hashtalk - it's optional.
You don't have to collect and use hashpoints.
You don't have to keep your money in the cloud, a lot of their clients withdraw daily.

All those features are available for those who want to do something more than simply take their daily payout and forget about it.

Side note: You might want to check out GAW's latest purchase - 5 PH/s from Bitmain

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=827552
https://hashtalk.org/topic/12390/bitmain-confirmation/197

[jimmothy]

They are really trying to make mining fun for you, so there are many different features to choose from. You get points for keeping your money there as a BONUS. You don't have to do it, but if you choose to, or simply forget to withdraw, you'll get points, that you can use as a store discount. IMO it's a great feature that makes them unique.

To be honest, I can't take you seriously when you say "they are trying to make mining fun". Adding an absurd amount of gimmicks/arbitrary games is not fun, it's a massive waste of time.

GAW knows it's a massive waste of time which is why they implemented the games knowing that only a select few will actually waste their time day after day.

I'll say this again.

You don't have to register on hashtalk - it's optional.
You don't have to collect and use hashpoints.
You don't have to keep your money in the cloud, a lot of their clients withdraw daily.

Most cults are in fact "optional".

And many people cannot withdraw their BTC but that's another issue.

All those features are available for those who want to do something more than simply take their daily payout and forget about it.

That's BS. Everything GAW does is a calculated effort to extract money from gullible idiots using every scheme known to man.

You'd have to be outright delusional to think that it's a "great feature" that they pay you to store your BTC on their service. There's absolutely no reason they would want you to store BTC with them unless they plan to steal it once they've accumulated enough.

Any day now GAW will get "hacked" or "lose all their coins due to a technical glitch" and many of you will still try to fork over more money.

sidenote: I'm honestly surprised you're a hero member and at the same time so ignorant about bitcoin. Did you buy that account recently or what?

Side note: You might want to check out GAW's latest purchase - 5 PH/s from Bitmain Wink

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=827552
https://hashtalk.org/topic/12390/bitmain-confirmation/197

Interesting that GAW has a few million dollars lying around. It's also a bit strange that they are willing to prove they own the sha-256 hardware but we are just supposed to just believe they actually have the scrypt hardware.

But good on them for being relatively honest for once.

[Snipe85]

They are really trying to make mining fun for you, so there are many different features to choose from. You get points for keeping your money there as a BONUS. You don't have to do it, but if you choose to, or simply forget to withdraw, you'll get points, that you can use as a store discount. IMO it's a great feature that makes them unique.

To be honest, I can't take you seriously when you say "they are trying to make mining fun". Adding an absurd amount of gimmicks/arbitrary games is not fun, it's a massive waste of time.

GAW knows it's a massive waste of time which is why they implemented the games knowing that only a select few will actually waste their time day after day.

If it's such a waste of time, there are other mining offers to choose from. You are free to use any of them. It appears people like to play, because they have a lot of clients.
I'd say you're wasting more time arguing in this thread than you would boosting your hashlets.

[WaffleMaster]

I can't understand why, even though there's confirmed proof FROM THE SUPPLIER, this guy still goes on about how there is no hashing power and it's a big ponzi. Oh, because they're innovating and creating a market for hashlet skin collectors to get rare hashlet skins? Oh, because they're putting a ton of fun and never before seen cool features into their cloud mining service? Oh, because they let you buy different hash power for different pools? Oh, because they have a forums where people get rewarded for meaningful posts (heaven forbid!)? Is it because they're creating a healthy coin? God forbid there be an actual company launching a coin with financial prowess and innovation behind it. By the way, a company could buy only BTC mining hardware, mine bitcoins, and sell Scrypt mh/s contracts based on what their SHA-256 mining power is. For example, the pool that someone buys a 1mh/s  hashlet on, lets say multipool, posts earnings per mh/s on average. If you have an SHA-256 miner getting .1 btc a day, and sold contract for 1mh/s scrypt that generates average .001 a day, you can sell 100 1mh/s Scrypt contracts and that's all just theory. So regardless what kind of power they bought from Bitmain, they have it (which they would never specify exact details for competition reasons), and everything can always be intertwined mathematically. Another ex: 1gh/s of SHA-256 may equal .1 mh/s of Scrypt. I know it might be hard for you to think such a thing, but trust me it can be done pretty easily and made into a complex mathematical equation to be a dynamic changing figure. I believe everything you've ever flamed about in this topic was covered, but forgive me if I missed a few non essential points. Good day  

[jimmothy]

I can't understand why, even though there's confirmed proof FROM THE SUPPLIER, this guy still goes on about how there is no hashing power and it's a big ponzi.

I think you perfectly understand why a new purchase of 5 PH/s doesn't prove they have been mining up to this point.

Seems like quite a waste of time/effort to have Bitmain confirm when all they need to do is post their mining address.

Oh, because they're innovating and creating a market for hashlet skin collectors to get rare hashlet skins?

Yes they have created value by painting a rock different colors. Good on them, but I wouldn't call it "innovation" as much a gimmick.

Oh, because they're putting a ton of fun and never before seen cool features into their cloud mining service?

Clicking buttons to boost your hashrate every day is fun? If I made a cloudmining company where you could boost your hashrate 10 times a day would it be 10 times as fun?

It's only "fun" because you have the illusion that you are making extra money but really after all that clicking/arbitrary games you are only making as much as you would have earned if the games never existed.

Oh, because they let you buy different hash power for different pools?

Do you not find it suspicious that they don't actually mine on those pools and instead calculate the earnings?

Oh, because they have a forums where people get rewarded for meaningful posts (heaven forbid!)?

You mean rewarded for circlejerking/and banned for any form of criticism? Sounds like a great place to have a non-biased discussion!

This is the one time a company has created their own forum for censorship purposes and turned out to be entirely trustworthy right?

Is it because they're creating a healthy coin? God forbid there be an actual company launching a coin with financial prowess and innovation behind it.

Innovation? You're joking right?

Here's the puppet-masters take on Hashcoin:

HashCoin is what we've been working on for months, under Project Prime. It is, I'm confident to say, the single biggest advancement for cryptocurrency since the original Bitcoin white paper.

Our initial ICO round will happen in the next 2-3 weeks. Our minimum investment floor is 1 million USD, and the line of investors and banks is forming :grinning:.

Its VERY clear why most coins have not done well. Technical innovation does not make a coin popular. Marketing, business strategy, adoption, and scale do.

Only the GAW CEO could announce to his cultists that he is inventing a coin, premining it, selling million dollar batches, and not get laughed at.

He might even be right though, all it takes is a massive marketing campaign towards ignorant noobs to make money.

By the way, a company could buy only BTC mining hardware, mine bitcoins, and sell Scrypt mh/s contracts based on what their SHA-256 mining power is. For example, the pool that someone buys a 1mh/s  hashlet on, lets say multipool, posts earnings per mh/s on average. If you have an SHA-256 miner getting .1 btc a day, and sold contract for 1mh/s scrypt that generates average .001 a day, you can sell 100 1mh/s Scrypt contracts and that's all just theory.

Occams razor: "among competing hypotheses, the one with the fewest assumptions should be selected".

You can make up many complicated scenarios where they might be able to payout, but a ponzi is the simplest explanation.

So regardless what kind of power they bought from Bitmain, they have it, and everything can always be intertwined mathematically. I believe everything you've ever flamed about in this topic was covered, but forgive me if I missed a few non essential points. Good day 

Yes I agree, the 5PH/s from Bitmain is most likely legit. I'm willing to bet that as soon as they bring it online, they will provide the public with their mining address as every legit company would.

The question is why they have refused to prove they are mining up to this point.

Clearly I'm not the only one who thinks it's a ponzi/sketchy/untrustworthy, so why sacrifice potential customers when all it takes is a few seconds to prove without a doubt that they are not a ponzi?

[Morguk]

All I will say is myself and many have got back our ROI already. I've been happy for once after losing money in home mining, PETA mine and Scrypt-x!

[WaffleMaster]

I believe they mine on the pools they sell contracts for, not just calculate the avg earnings and payout that amount haha. Releasing a bitcoin mining address would allow competitors to calculate their average hashrate to be able to know exactly how much to buy or invest to make them on top again. I believe $6.95 for 1mh/s of scrypt is currently the best price, without getting into weird fire sales by other companies who have backlogged themselves -854 160mh/s contracts (*cough* ltcgear *cough*) for $9,000 - nowait -$1,800 - no wait $900 with this special bonus code that would leave them holding $800,000 of customer's money and no service to show for it. Can I get a "Butterfly Labs" shout from the crowd please?

[jimmothy]

I believe they mine on the pools they sell contracts for, not just calculate the avg earnings and payout that amount haha.

If you could provide proof that would be hugely beneficial towards shutting me up. (along with the other skeptics)

Their TOS says it's all virtual:

Hashlets earnings depend on the pool chosen and Payouts reflect respective Pool Payouts. Selecting a Pool does not imply physically or electronically mining at the selected Pool. Rather, selecting a Pool determines a Payout corresponding to a calculation based on the selected Pool’s payout (based on, for example, real-time Megahash/second/day calculations). A Hashlet is virtual software. You will receive Payouts according to the Pool with with the Hashlet is associated

https://zenminer.com/cloud/terms.html

Releasing a bitcoin mining address would allow competitors to calculate their average hashrate to be able to know exactly how much to buy or invest to make them on top again.

I'm sorry but that makes no sense. Competitors don't care how much hashrate GAW has, they only care about the total network hashrate.



Almost all manufacturers/cloudmining companies have gone public with their hashrate.

[bitgeek]

Don't even start with this guy, he's very selective with his responses and ignores most things people are telling him in his thread,
I checked his trust coments and it looks like he tried that before.

"retarded in the head
Claims the Havelock IPO is not a scam "because he said so".
Don't trust what he says, since he either is trolling, or intentionally misleading or he is a complete fool."

So, GAW is using their miners as very expensive heaters, and they even bought more recently because the winter is coming
You solved the great mystery, good job!

This whole discussion has gone off topic, the question was if hashlets are worth it. If you want to make GAW submit proof of mining, you have to contact them.

[Klubknuckle]

hashlets are good, buy it when there is promotion to have the best chance to ROI and profit.

[maku]

hashlets are good, buy it when there is promotion to have the best chance to ROI and profit.

I agree hashelts are not half bad. I wish I bought more of them when I have a chance.

[jimmothy]

Don't even start with this guy, he's very selective with his responses and ignores most things people are telling him in his thread,

What exactly am I ignoring?

Here are some things you GAW fanatics are constantly ignoring: Why is GAW refusing to publish a mining address? Why did they create their own forum? Why does their TOS say they are not actually mining on the selected pools?

I checked his trust coments and it looks like he tried that before.

"retarded in the head
Claims the Havelock IPO is not a scam "because he said so".
Don't trust what he says, since he either is trolling, or intentionally misleading or he is a complete fool."

Nice attempt at ad hominem.

I've never done business with either people who left negative feedback and one of them is a known scammer and the other thinks havelock is a scam (even though 1 year later havelock still hasn't scammed anyone).

Looking at your own post history it's clear that championing GAW is pretty much all you do.

Why don't you just ask them to publish a mining address so all you beliebers don't have to waste hours defending them with nothing but flimsy evidence?

[Stedsm]

Hi everyone, I'm looking to start mining, and the cloud miners, by GAW miners (the hashlet) look like a good deal. How long do you have these miners? 5 years? Also, are there any hidden fees I should be aware about? Thanks!

Similar to cex.io, you mine with them until you choose to sell them at a loss/profit. Good luck

[Undefeatable]

Buy from hashnest instead. its currently 0.115 per GHs

[ranochigo]

No, cloud mining are significantly more expensive than home mining. They wouldn't be renting their hardware to users if they are actually profitable. Unlike Cex.io, cloudhashing and various other cloudmining companies, they do not have proof that their hardware are actually running. Even if they have proof that their hardware are mining, you won't be making any ROI.

[EvilPanda]

@jimmothy
He was right in this part: he's very selective with his responses and ignores most things people are telling him in his thread
You acted like nothing is ignored, yet in the same post you ignored the most important part:

So, GAW is using their miners as very expensive heaters, and they even bought more recently because the winter is coming Wink
You solved the great mystery, good job!

This whole discussion has gone off topic, the question was if hashlets are worth it. If you want to make GAW submit proof of mining, you have to contact them.

This is what you can't answer, right? Just like you can't prove they are a scam, but continue to attack them, although you aren't their client, and I know that, because you said that people can't withdraw their money from the cloud, which is a lie. And if you were a client you would have known that despite the delays, withdrawals are working. We aren't talking about a small cloud mining site with a 100 clients, GAW has a couple thousand, so if all of them start clicking f5 this is what you get.

And some of your questions are ridiculous like "why did they create their own forum?" And why did KNC start their own forum? You're really grasping straws here.

No, cloud mining are significantly more expensive than home mining. They wouldn't be renting their hardware to users if they are actually profitable. Unlike Cex.io, cloudhashing and various other cloudmining companies, they do not have proof that their hardware are actually running. Even if they have proof that their hardware are mining, you won't be making any ROI.

You are right in the bold part, cloud mining is aimed at people who can't mine at home. The market is fairly large, because not everyone these days has a stable connection, me included. My internet tends to disconnect once or twice a week, and requires a router reset, which makes mining a bit difficult. If it happened at night I'd be losing at least 10 hours of mining every week. You also need a dedicated room to fit the miners and not everyone has it. Finally, don't forget to add the cost of shipping and taxes, not to mention that you can get the miner much later than expected.
In the perfect cloud mining scenario you start mining just a few minutes after buying a contract and experience no downtime, don't have to worry that the miner or PSU will fail, your kid pulls the wires, or you lose mining time because someone blew the fuses while you were at work.

As for the second part, they have a proof of having the miners, and a lot of them. So what do you think they are doing with all this hardware if not mining? IMO they simply don't want to reveal what is being mined and where, and it's their choice, just as your choice is to calculate the risk and decide if the whole thing is worth investing.

I always say that the only way a buyer can put pressure on the seller is by not investing. No amount of complaining and repeating the same bullshit on the forum will help in this case.

[jimmothy]

@jimmothy
He was right in this part: he's very selective with his responses and ignores most things people are telling him in his thread
You acted like nothing is ignored, yet in the same post you ignored the most important part:

So, GAW is using their miners as very expensive heaters, and they even bought more recently because the winter is coming Wink
You solved the great mystery, good job!

I only ignored that one comment because I really don't understand the point.

I think you are trying to imply that because they have pics of some miners, they must not be a ponzi which is an incredibly flawed argument. It's clear that they do have SOME hardware, just how much is completely unknown.

Again, if they actually have 100% of the hashrate they've sold, there is no reason to not prove it with a mining address.

This whole discussion has gone off topic, the question was if hashlets are worth it. If you want to make GAW submit proof of mining, you have to contact them.[/i]

I would say a companies trustworthiness and likelihood of being a ponzi is an important factor when deciding if the "investment" is worth it.

Here's the SEC's advice of how to spot a ponzi scheme:

What are some Ponzi scheme "red flags"?

Many Ponzi schemes share common characteristics. Look for these warning signs:

    High investment returns with little or no risk. Every investment carries some degree of risk, and investments yielding higher returns typically involve more risk. Be highly suspicious of any "guaranteed" investment opportunity.

    Overly consistent returns. Investment values tend to go up and down over time, especially those offering potentially high returns. Be suspect of an investment that continues to generate regular, positive returns regardless of overall market conditions.

    Unregistered investments. Ponzi schemes typically involve investments that have not been registered with the SEC or with state regulators. Registration is important because it provides investors with access to key information about the company's management, products, services, and finances.

    Unlicensed sellers. Federal and state securities laws require investment professionals and their firms to be licensed or registered. Most Ponzi schemes involve unlicensed individuals or unregistered firms.

    Secretive and/or complex strategies. Avoiding investments you do not understand, or for which you cannot get complete information, is a good rule of thumb.

    Issues with paperwork. Do not accept excuses regarding why you cannot review information about an investment in writing. Also, account statement errors and inconsistencies may be signs that funds are not being invested as promised.

    Difficulty receiving payments. Be suspicious if you do not receive a payment or have difficulty cashing out your investment. Keep in mind that Ponzi scheme promoters routinely encourage participants to "roll over" investments and sometimes promise returns offering even higher returns on the amount rolled over.

http://www.sec.gov/answers/ponzi.htm

Impressive that this totally legit company manages to trigger 6/7 of the SEC's warning signs of a ponzi.

And some of your questions are ridiculous like "why did they create their own forum?" And why did KNC start their own forum? You're really grasping straws here.

It's not ridiculous at all. KNC/BFL/GAW created their forum for the same reason any other company with something to hide did.

This discussion should have made you realize exactly why GAW created their own forum, because if this was taking place on hashtalk I would have been banned after the first post.

Just look at how well censorship/astroturfing is working for GAW. Hundreds of complaints/criticisms/ponzi accusations on this forum, yet you cannot find a single negative comment on their own forum.

As for the second part, they have a proof of having the miners, and a lot of them. So what do you think they are doing with all this hardware if not mining? IMO they simply don't want to reveal what is being mined and where, and it's their choice, just as your choice is to calculate the risk and decide if the whole thing is worth investing.

They have pics of miners and obviously there is nothing else a miner can do but mine.

What you are missing or intentionally ignoring is the fact that anyone can buy/host a few dozen miners and claim they have a multi-MW mining operation. Even if they have hundreds of miners, that may only be enough to cover 1/4th of the hashrate they are selling. (like a fractional reserve)

No amount of complaining and repeating the same bullshit on the forum will help in this case.

Not true at all. If you GAW fanatics would quit being such gullible pushovers, GAW would have proven they were mining within days of launch. (assuming it's not a ponzi)

It's clear that you (just like bitgeek) spend 100% of your free time championing GAW.

So instead of wasting constant hours of your life defending GAW, why don't you just ask GAW to prove they are not a ponzi with a simple copy/paste of a mining address?

Think about all the button clicking and arbitrary games you will be able to play with the hours you will be saving.

[FattyMcButterpants]

No, cloud mining are significantly more expensive than home mining. They wouldn't be renting their hardware to users if they are actually profitable. Unlike Cex.io, cloudhashing and various other cloudmining companies, they do not have proof that their hardware are actually running. Even if they have proof that their hardware are mining, you won't be making any ROI.

All that you would need to do to verify proof that any cloud mining company actually is mining (GAW hashlets included) is to buy a small amount of mining capacity, then wait until you have enough to earn a payout, request/receive a payout, then trace the source of the payout via the blockchain. There should be somewhat of a short path to a coinbase transaction from a found block (that is somewhat new). There is your proof that they are actually mining

[Konstigt]

I came here looking to see if Hashlets were worth it and I came out with conspiracies of GAW being a ponzi. Great.

[I_IZ_CEO]

@jimmothy
He was right in this part: he's very selective with his responses and ignores most things people are telling him in his thread
You acted like nothing is ignored, yet in the same post you ignored the most important part:

So, GAW is using their miners as very expensive heaters, and they even bought more recently because the winter is coming Wink
You solved the great mystery, good job!

I only ignored that one comment because I really don't understand the point.

I think you are trying to imply that because they have pics of some miners, they must not be a ponzi which is an incredibly flawed argument. It's clear that they do have SOME hardware, just how much is completely unknown.

Again, if they actually have 100% of the hashrate they've sold, there is no reason to not prove it with a mining address.

This whole discussion has gone off topic, the question was if hashlets are worth it. If you want to make GAW submit proof of mining, you have to contact them.[/i]

I would say a companies trustworthiness and likelihood of being a ponzi is an important factor when deciding if the "investment" is worth it.

Here's the SEC's advice of how to spot a ponzi scheme:

What are some Ponzi scheme "red flags"?

Many Ponzi schemes share common characteristics. Look for these warning signs:

    High investment returns with little or no risk. Every investment carries some degree of risk, and investments yielding higher returns typically involve more risk. Be highly suspicious of any "guaranteed" investment opportunity.

    Overly consistent returns. Investment values tend to go up and down over time, especially those offering potentially high returns. Be suspect of an investment that continues to generate regular, positive returns regardless of overall market conditions.

    Unregistered investments. Ponzi schemes typically involve investments that have not been registered with the SEC or with state regulators. Registration is important because it provides investors with access to key information about the company's management, products, services, and finances.

    Unlicensed sellers. Federal and state securities laws require investment professionals and their firms to be licensed or registered. Most Ponzi schemes involve unlicensed individuals or unregistered firms.

    Secretive and/or complex strategies. Avoiding investments you do not understand, or for which you cannot get complete information, is a good rule of thumb.

    Issues with paperwork. Do not accept excuses regarding why you cannot review information about an investment in writing. Also, account statement errors and inconsistencies may be signs that funds are not being invested as promised.

    Difficulty receiving payments. Be suspicious if you do not receive a payment or have difficulty cashing out your investment. Keep in mind that Ponzi scheme promoters routinely encourage participants to "roll over" investments and sometimes promise returns offering even higher returns on the amount rolled over.

http://www.sec.gov/answers/ponzi.htm

Impressive that this totally legit company manages to trigger 6/7 of the SEC's warning signs of a ponzi.

And some of your questions are ridiculous like "why did they create their own forum?" And why did KNC start their own forum? You're really grasping straws here.

It's not ridiculous at all. KNC/BFL/GAW created their forum for the same reason any other company with something to hide did.

This discussion should have made you realize exactly why GAW created their own forum, because if this was taking place on hashtalk I would have been banned after the first post.

Just look at how well censorship/astroturfing is working for GAW. Hundreds of complaints/criticisms/ponzi accusations on this forum, yet you cannot find a single negative comment on their own forum.

As for the second part, they have a proof of having the miners, and a lot of them. So what do you think they are doing with all this hardware if not mining? IMO they simply don't want to reveal what is being mined and where, and it's their choice, just as your choice is to calculate the risk and decide if the whole thing is worth investing.

They have pics of miners and obviously there is nothing else a miner can do but mine.

What you are missing or intentionally ignoring is the fact that anyone can buy/host a few dozen miners and claim they have a multi-MW mining operation. Even if they have hundreds of miners, that may only be enough to cover 1/4th of the hashrate they are selling. (like a fractional reserve)

No amount of complaining and repeating the same bullshit on the forum will help in this case.

Not true at all. If you GAW fanatics would quit being such gullible pushovers, GAW would have proven they were mining within days of launch. (assuming it's not a ponzi)

It's clear that you (just like bitgeek) spend 100% of your free time championing GAW.

So instead of wasting constant hours of your life defending GAW, why don't you just ask GAW to prove they are not a ponzi with a simple copy/paste of a mining address?

Think about all the button clicking and arbitrary games you will be able to play with the hours you will be saving.

Great job!
You have owned every sheeple that has attacked you here!

[SDRebel]

Hi everyone, I'm looking to start mining, and the cloud miners, by GAW miners (the hashlet) look like a good deal. How long do you have these miners? 5 years? Also, are there any hidden fees I should be aware about? Thanks!

as someone who invested lots in GAW a few months ago (almost from the beginning) and now i'm free of it, I honestly cannot recommend doing any business with them. The GAW_CEO is not trustworthy. He will promie 100 features and deliver 5 and with 50 bugs. There's way to many red flags on what he does.
Hashtalk was opened so he could keep his little bubble where we can censor anything that does not say good things about them.

The only one I can recommend ( though I cannot guarantee  100% that they are honest, because there's naturally secrecy)is ltcgear.

[SDRebel]

I came here looking to see if Hashlets were worth it and I came out with conspiracies of GAW being a ponzi. Great.

well, assuming you ignore everything about GAW and look purely at hashlests, for example
retail of zens  is $14.95,
at $330 that's                       0.04530303 BTC
payout for yesterday was       0.00029683 BTC
fees was $0.08 so at $330     -0.00024242 BTC
                  net                   0.00005441 BTC

without considering difficulty increasing, number of days to break even is 832
you tell me if that is worth it

[Some1else0]

There are more trustworthy companies that offer cheaper hashrates than GAW. It's not worth it in my opinion.

[suchmoon]

When I am in this section of forum all I see is raging and crying people: "cloud mining is a ponzi, they are scammers". And all it comes from people who never invested anything in any cloud mining service at all. Why is that?

I have invested in several cloud mining services, including hashlets. According to your criteria, does that make me qualified to express my opinion about said services?

Just checking because I wouldn't want to offend any sensitivities around here.

BTW good to see the usual GAW faithful crowd ganging up on jimmothy here. I was wondering where you all went, almost started thinking that some of you may have become less enamored with hashpoints and hashcoins and ICO. But it seems you're still sticking with it till the bitter end. Good luck.

[FattyMcButterpants]

I came here looking to see if Hashlets were worth it and I came out with conspiracies of GAW being a ponzi. Great.

Well this is an important question to ask. If the company is running as a ponzi then it would obviously be something you would want to avoid.

Once you have established that GAW is not a ponzi (if you can reach that conclusion) it is generally easy to measure when you should expect to break even as well as how much profit you should expect to make by using a mining calculator (and inputting in what difficulty increases you think are realistic)

[Snipe85]

When I am in this section of forum all I see is raging and crying people: "cloud mining is a ponzi, they are scammers". And all it comes from people who never invested anything in any cloud mining service at all. Why is that?

I have invested in several cloud mining services, including hashlets. According to your criteria, does that make me qualified to express my opinion about said services?

Just checking because I wouldn't want to offend any sensitivities around here.

BTW good to see the usual GAW faithful crowd ganging up on jimmothy here. I was wondering where you all went, almost started thinking that some of you may have become less enamored with hashpoints and hashcoins and ICO. But it seems you're still sticking with it till the bitter end. Good luck.

Looks like you are sticking with it as well, you're commenting about hashlets every day. Is this your hobby or something?

[suchmoon]

Looks like you are sticking with it as well, you're commenting about hashlets every day. Is this your hobby or something?

One of the best soap operas in crypto now. How could I not participate.

[Snipe85]

Looks like you are sticking with it as well, you're commenting about hashlets every day. Is this your hobby or something?

One of the best soap operas in crypto now. How could I not participate.

So you're in it for the entertainment. Never thought of that.
To each his own.  

[mm5aes]

I came here looking to see if Hashlets were worth it and I came out with conspiracies of GAW being a ponzi. Great.

Seems you lit the blue touch paper...

As far as my experience with Hashlets, got in early and took advantage of all the 'upgrades' and price rises then sold out at the first opportunity. Made some Btc and was happy.

Got banned from their forum along the way for asking why they were banning so many people. Had only gone there to find out what was happening as it seemed at the time the only way the communicated with customers.

Would not now invest as, if nothing else, the figures don't point to profit in the current market. In the interest of fairness, you'd be hard pressed to find any that did.

There is a good calculator for such things on this site in case you haven't found it :-
https://bitcoinwisdom.com

Good luck with any investment you care to make.

[hiddensphinx]

bought 50 primes at $16 and sold them out $35 when the payouts started to drop like a rock from outer space

[jimmothy]

For those who missed it: https://hashcoin.com/

Hashcoin: more ways to give money to GAW's CEO.

Features include:

- Non-technical whitepaper written in 5 minutes

- Centralized transaction verification

- Mining tax(unknown %): 1/3rd will go towards advertising the coin, 1/3rd will go towards expanding GAW datacenters, and 1/3rd will go directly in to the CEO's personal wallet.

- 96 million coins will be distributed during the ICO for the amazing price of only $20/coin. That means for the low price of $1.9 billion USD you can buy all these amazing coins that GAW premined in seconds!

- Buy hashcoins using hashpoints for only $4/coin (market cap $384 million). You will be able to sell them for $20 once it launches, GAW's CEO promises!

[suchmoon]

For those who missed it: https://hashcoin.com/

Hashcoin: more ways to give money to GAW's CEO.

Features include:

- Non-technical whitepaper written in 5 minutes

- Centralized transaction verification

- Mining tax(unknown %): 1/3rd will go towards advertising the coin, 1/3rd will go towards expanding GAW datacenters, and 1/3rd will go directly in to the CEO's personal wallet.

- 96 million coins will be distributed during the ICO for the amazing price of only $20/coin. That means for the low price of $1.9 billion USD you can buy all these amazing coins that GAW premined in seconds!

- Buy hashcoins using hashpoints for only $4/coin (market cap $384 million). You will be able to sell them for $20 once it launches, GAW's CEO promises!

#3 only applies to the ICO coins (I think), unless you meant something else here. However the CEO has said multiple times that PrimeHashlets will have an advantage over other miners and I don't see anything in the white paper that would suggest the existence of such advantage.

#4/5 imply that the FIAT "floor" reserve to keep the price at $20 must be ~$2 billion to avoid the mother of all sell offs, so I'm really puzzled by how that is going to work. I have a strong feeling the 96 million number is incorrect but with the white paper being so light on numbers and facts it's impossible to tell for sure.

Confusing is the mildest adjective I can come up with now.

[jimmothy]

"We shall make the market cap $2 billion dollars" - GAW GEO

Personally, if I was going to make up a market cap I would have went with at least 10 trillion dollars.

[suchmoon]

10 trillion dollars.

That might be a bit too good to be true. $2 billion is apparently fine, Prime hashlets on the Market are still hovering around $44 so the faith is strong.

[jimmothy]

10 trillion dollars.

That might be a bit too good to be true. $2 billion is apparently fine, Prime hashlets on the Market are still hovering around $44 so the faith is strong.

I was wrong. The $20 million market cap was totally not a made up number. Turns out there are "investors" who have valued this new coin at $2 billion.

Answer-1: $20.00 is not guaranteed, it is the minimum price that outside investors have agreed they would be willing to pay to invest in the coin

https://hashtalk.org/topic/15914/hashcoin-ico-customer-round-q-a-transcript-from-yesterday-evening

Answer-2: We are creating a reserve fiat fund, in excess of 30 million dollars, to create immediate liquidity for the coin. This reserve will create a floor for the coin. It will stabilize the price and prevent pump and dumps from occurring. We do not believe many will sell, because our market analyst reported that the coin should break the $75.00 price point within 12 months of the ICO. Since there are many merchants committing to this, the price is expected to continue to climb.

So $75 x 96m = $7.2 billion = 1.5 times the market cap of all cryptocoins combined (including bitcoin)

And to call it a cryptocoin is a stretch. The definition of cryptocurrency is "a medium of exchange using cryptography to secure the transactions and to control the creation of new units".

With hashcoin, the mining/cryptography is completely arbitrary as all transactions are all sent to the bank of GAW who has complete control over the blockchain and can modify it at will.

If you were hit by a bus on your way to work tomorrow, without leaving your crypto keys where your heirs could find them, you are caught in a situation that has no obvious solution. A bank can fix that problem, by overriding the system and moving your money to your heirs.

Everyone knows the example of wealthy benefactors who funnel money to bad people who blow things up. Those cases are a very small percentage of what a bank would deal with. Most of the time a bank is going to be dealing with the small mundane issues, like someone inheriting your assets on your death, or freezing them if there are criminal proceedings.

When there is a central bank, for the crypto currency, in the picture, it can mitigate these issues, and governments will accept it much more readily.

[EvilPanda]

I thought this is a thread about hashlets not hashcoin. There already are general GAW threads, no need to spam here.

I came here looking to see if Hashlets were worth it and I came out with conspiracies of GAW being a ponzi. Great.

Well this is an important question to ask. If the company is running as a ponzi then it would obviously be something you would want to avoid.

Once you have established that GAW is not a ponzi (if you can reach that conclusion) it is generally easy to measure when you should expect to break even as well as how much profit you should expect to make by using a mining calculator (and inputting in what difficulty increases you think are realistic)

+1

[jimmothy]

I thought this is a thread about hashlets not hashcoin. There already are general GAW threads, no need to spam here.

That's like saying we shouldn't talk about BTC in a BTC mining thread.

But I get your point, it's much harder to pimp these things when people know the risk of it being a scam.

I'll just leave this here: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2l7myv/can_we_talk_about_gaw/

[moko666]

yes hashlets are a good option if you don't have knowledge or time to manage own hardware
and want to mine without any tension
if you are a tech guy and got some free time then hardware mining is best option

[Snipe85]

I thought this is a thread about hashlets not hashcoin. There already are general GAW threads, no need to spam here.

That's like saying we shouldn't talk about BTC in a BTC mining thread.

People usually don't discuss the risk of buying bitcoin in the mining section. Just sayin'

[jimmothy]

I thought this is a thread about hashlets not hashcoin. There already are general GAW threads, no need to spam here.

That's like saying we shouldn't talk about BTC in a BTC mining thread.

People usually don't discuss the risk of buying bitcoin in the mining section. Just sayin'

That's not true at all. If you have ever visited the mining section you would know that.

Seems you just really don't want people to know about the massive risks/red flags involved with this "investment".

[Snipe85]

I thought this is a thread about hashlets not hashcoin. There already are general GAW threads, no need to spam here.

That's like saying we shouldn't talk about BTC in a BTC mining thread.

People usually don't discuss the risk of buying bitcoin in the mining section. Just sayin'

That's not true at all. If you have ever visited the mining section you would know that.

Seems you just really don't want people to know about the massive risks/red flags involved with this "investment".

All cryptocurrency investments (holding bitcoins included) are cathegorized as "high risk investments".
Massive risk? Obviously you've never traded altcoins.

[Slark]

That's not true at all. If you have ever visited the mining section you would know that.

Seems you just really don't want people to know about the massive risks/red flags involved with this "investment".

Are you seeing red flags/risks everywhere? Well probably you should, because it is bitcoin world, and investing here is risky as hell. We may lose everything tomorrow after all if bitcoin crashes. And without risk there is no gain too.

[jimmothy]

All cryptocurrency investments (holding bitcoins included) are cathegorized as "high risk investments".
Massive risk? Obviously you've never traded altcoins.

But normally risk is proportionate to reward.

With mining you are looking at a lifetime profit of 10-20% but could also result in a ~50% loss so already the risk/reward ratio is poor. Adding the massive risk of GAW being a ponzi makes the risk/reward ratio about as poor as it can get.

With hashlets, the risk/reward is basically like flipping a coin, heads you win $5, tails you lose $50.

[EvilPanda]

With hashlets, the risk/reward is basically like flipping a coin, heads you win $5, tails you lose $50.

What would you say to all these people who invested and got 120% or more out of it? We're talking about hundreds of people here.
I thought that ponzis are being financed with their money so it's impossible for the majority of investors to profit...

[jimmothy]

With hashlets, the risk/reward is basically like flipping a coin, heads you win $5, tails you lose $50.

What would you say to all these people who invested and got 120% or more out of it? We're talking about hundreds of people here.
I thought that ponzis are being financed with their money so it's impossible for the majority of investors to profit...

Because no ponzi in the history of ponzis has given great returns to the few early birds right?

Compare the current returns to the past where people where able to ROI. Early birds were able to turn a profit in ~1 month, new customers are looking at ~1-2 years until they break even at current rates.

There is of course a chance that GAW decides to lower the fees/increase payouts but it's equally likely that they decide to make fees 99% of what you earn and/or are a ponzi and run with the money. GAW CEO is the puppet master of your ROI and there's nothing you can do about it.

[EvilPanda]

With hashlets, the risk/reward is basically like flipping a coin, heads you win $5, tails you lose $50.

What would you say to all these people who invested and got 120% or more out of it? We're talking about hundreds of people here.
I thought that ponzis are being financed with their money so it's impossible for the majority of investors to profit...

Because no ponzi in the history of ponzis has given great returns to the few early birds right?

Compare the current returns to the past where people where able to ROI. Early birds were able to turn a profit in ~1 month, new customers are looking at ~1-2 years until they break even at current rates.

There is of course a chance that GAW decides to lower the fees/increase payouts but it's equally likely that they decide to make fees 99% of what you earn and/or are a ponzi and run with the money. GAW CEO is the puppet master of your ROI and there's nothing you can do about it.

In GAW's case over 50% of investors got their money back and then some. In a pyramid scheme those early birds are financed by the crowd that comes after them, so it's impossible for even 50 % of them to get out with profit, and in this case they did.
On the other hand if the payouts and fees stay the way there are there won't be any new customers.

[ajw7989]

GAW is not a ponzy. They are one of the most reputable altcoin guys around. Now whether investing in hashlets now will give an ROI is a different story. I actually was an early investor and sold all hashlets a week ago. I made ROI because I got primes for 16 each. However GAW may be overreaching themselves with their plans now and you can bet they will have their share of problems. Whether you want to join them for that ride is up to you but they wont scam you.

[jimmothy]

With hashlets, the risk/reward is basically like flipping a coin, heads you win $5, tails you lose $50.

What would you say to all these people who invested and got 120% or more out of it? We're talking about hundreds of people here.
I thought that ponzis are being financed with their money so it's impossible for the majority of investors to profit...

Because no ponzi in the history of ponzis has given great returns to the few early birds right?

Compare the current returns to the past where people where able to ROI. Early birds were able to turn a profit in ~1 month, new customers are looking at ~1-2 years until they break even at current rates.

There is of course a chance that GAW decides to lower the fees/increase payouts but it's equally likely that they decide to make fees 99% of what you earn and/or are a ponzi and run with the money. GAW CEO is the puppet master of your ROI and there's nothing you can do about it.

In GAW's case over 50% of investors got their money back and then some. In a pyramid scheme those early birds are financed by the crowd that comes after them, so it's impossible for even 50 % of them to get out with profit, and in this case they did.
On the other hand if the payouts and fees stay the way there are there won't be any new customers.

So what you're telling me is that you have access to GAW's real financials? I'm 99.0% sure you just pulled that number out of your ass to make a point.

Sidenote: did you catch the person using 4 shill acounts to promote GAW yet? In case you missed it: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=720844.msg9464539#msg9464539

[jimmothy]

GAW is not a ponzy. They are one of the most reputable altcoin guys around. Now whether investing in hashlets now will give an ROI is a different story. I actually was an early investor and sold all hashlets a week ago. I made ROI because I got primes for 16 each. However GAW may be overreaching themselves with their plans now and you can bet they will have their share of problems. Whether you want to join them for that ride is up to you but they wont scam you.

No that's, that's absolutely not true.

Go to anywhere on this forum/reddit/investment advisors and they will all tell you the same thing, GAW is untrustworthy.

Some noobs here have yet to get scammed in the bitcoin world so it's understandable they can miss/ignore the mountain of red flags, but please for the sake of the community, don't drag other naive/gullible noobs into the scam.

Look at https://www.reddit.com/r/GAWMiners/ if you want a better understanding of the situation. That place used to be a haven for GAW zealots to unite and share praise for the company but they could only ignore the waves of red flags hitting them in the face for so long before coming back to their senses.

[EvilPanda]

1. If you think it's not true, then you haven't seen any ROI tracking threads.
2. People can promote whatever they like and have as many accounts as they want. It's funny that you point this out but ignore the fact that there are sockpuppet accounts in every bigger thread on this forum. Some are also used to attack GAW, but are very rarely banned, simply because this is not against the rules.
One guy with 4 aliases was recvently banned: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=845185.msg9426078#msg9426078
3. "Go to anywhere on this forum/reddit/investment advisors and they will all tell you the same thing, GAW is untrustworthy". Not true. There are many people on this forum, me included with positive experiences.

You're still ignoring the uncomfortable fact, that GAW is not a small club with 50 customers, but one of the biggest mining companies in the crypto world. Since the beginning of the year when they started to sell miners they offered their services to numerous clients and how many of them reported scams? If you want to play detective do your job right: get a list of people who were scammed by GAW, let's count together how much money they invested and lost. I may even apologize to you and say that I was wrong about them. Otherwise we can bounce this ball back and forth for another month.

Don't forget to count those false claims, made by sockpuppets, since you like to expose them. A hint: there were at least 2. 

And to finish, an eye candy for you: https://twitter.com/gawceo/status/530490091266134017/photo/1

[jimmothy]

1. If you think it's not true, then you haven't seen any ROI tracking threads.

I'm not denying the fact that many have seen ROI. I don't know how you couldn't ROI if you bought a prime hashlet at $15. However you are going to need to provide evidence to support your statement that more 50% of people have turned a profit.

2. People can promote whatever they like and have as many accounts as they want. It's funny that you point this out but ignore the fact that there are sockpuppet accounts in every bigger thread on this forum. Some are also used to attack GAW, but are very rarely banned, simply because this is not against the rules.
One guy with 4 aliases was recvently banned: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=845185.msg9426078#msg9426078

That's true but when you get caught shilling you are only damaging your point/credibility. Legit services don't need shills because their service/customers will speak for them.

GAW has plenty of actual supporters and doesn't need shills IMO. I just thought you would be interested to know that someone is taking advantage of your sig campaign.

3. "Go to anywhere on this forum/reddit/investment advisors and they will all tell you the same thing, GAW is untrustworthy". Not true. There are many people on this forum, me included with positive experiences.

I didn't mean 100% of the people will tell you that they are untrustworthy. I mean that the majority feel that way, which is true.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=839849.0

That poll shows that 2/3rd of miners think that a cloudmining company hiding their mining address is a sign of a ponzi, and that's only a single red flag.

You're still ignoring the uncomfortable fact, that GAW is not a small club with 50 customers, but one of the biggest mining companies in the crypto world. Since the beginning of the year when they started to sell miners they offered their services to numerous clients and how many of them reported scams? If you want to play detective do your job right: get a list of people who were scammed by GAW, let's count together how much money they invested and lost. I may even apologize to you and say that I was wrong about them. Otherwise we can bounce this ball back and forth for another month.

I'm not ignoring anything. The size of the company says nothing about it's legitimacy. Lunamine had hundreds of naive/gullible customers before collapsing, would you say they are trustworthy? What about bitcoin-trader.biz? Or cryptcominer?

You can't blame me for thinking GAW is a ponzi when they've taken every precaution to dress themselves up as one. There is absolutely no reason they need to have 500 red flags when other cloudmining companies can operate with transparency/integrity.

[I_IZ_CEO]

Thank you jimmothy for bringing out these points and like I have said before other TRUSTED people in the BTC community have also said many non-positive things about the company. As far as panda.... Gave me bad trust for no reason at all, have not had any dealing with her for a while (this was 1 day after I said "jimmothy ripped new ass on some shill posters, I guess panda took it personal). Abuse of the trust system and as everyone can see makes money from Gaw.

[martindaniel667]

Hi everyone, I'm looking to start mining, and the cloud miners, by GAW miners (the hashlet) look like a good deal. How long do you have these miners? 5 years? Also, are there any hidden fees I should be aware about? Thanks!

I will Prefer pbmining over hashlets....BTC

[Furio]

Hi everyone, I'm looking to start mining, and the cloud miners, by GAW miners (the hashlet) look like a good deal. How long do you have these miners? 5 years? Also, are there any hidden fees I should be aware about? Thanks!

I will Prefer pbmining over hashlets....BTC

PBmining or LTCgear.com, both much better

[ajw7989]

Hi everyone, I'm looking to start mining, and the cloud miners, by GAW miners (the hashlet) look like a good deal. How long do you have these miners? 5 years? Also, are there any hidden fees I should be aware about? Thanks!

I will Prefer pbmining over hashlets....BTC

PBmining or LTCgear.com, both much better

I agree both are a much better investment although a different type. These are the true sense of mining. The best way to make ROI in GAW is trading like an btc exchange. The way the payouts are in GAW you wont ROI on mining alone unlike in pbmining and ltcgear where you most likely will

[EvilPanda]

I'm not denying the fact that many have seen ROI. I don't know how you couldn't ROI if you bought a prime hashlet at $15. However you are going to need to provide evidence to support your statement that more 50% of people have turned a profit.

I got this info from the man himself. I haven't seen any complaints both here and on hashtalk and there's plenty of evidence in the ROI tracking threads (you could contact philipma1957 for more details, he was one of the early investors, who provided evidence of the payouts). If you bought hashlets in August or September you've already reached ROI or are very close to it. I've also talked to a number of people who had hosted  hardware before the hashlets came out and all of them are past ROI.
Also note, that most of GAW's sales came at the time of vaultbreakers and the innitial hashlet boom, when they openly promised to take care of their clients. If you bought at that period you profited, there's no other way.
On the other hand cuttent payouts aren't looking good, so hashcoin, or an increased demand on the marketplace are the only ways for October buyers to profit.

That's true but when you get caught shilling you are only damaging your point/credibility. Legit services don't need shills because their service/customers will speak for them.
GAW has plenty of actual supporters and doesn't need shills IMO. I just thought you would be interested to know that someone is taking advantage of your sig campaign.

I've been running sig campaigns for 8 months now and had a number of such cases. On one hand it looks like a scam when somebody acts like 2 different people to gat paid, on the other he has to do twice more to get it. I didn't include a rule forbidding sockpuppets, because it's hard to prove unless he makes a mistake. Anyway, thanks for the info.

I didn't mean 100% of the people will tell you that they are untrustworthy. I mean that the majority feel that way, which is true.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=839849.0

That poll shows that 2/3rd of miners think that a cloudmining company hiding their mining address is a sign of a ponzi, and that's only a single red flag.

That poll is based the votes of 35 people, that's not enough to draw conclusions, especially that just 10 more votes would tip the scales in the other direction. What are 10 votes compared to a couple hundred GAW's investors. Also in your first post you basically stated your opinion and supported it with Gavin's statement, so I'm not surprised most people voted in your favour.

I'm not ignoring anything. The size of the company says nothing about it's legitimacy. Lunamine had hundreds of naive/gullible customers before collapsing, would you say they are trustworthy? What about bitcoin-trader.biz? Or cryptcominer?

You can't blame me for thinking GAW is a ponzi when they've taken every precaution to dress themselves up as one. There is absolutely no reason they need to have 500 red flags when other cloudmining companies can operate with transparency/integrity.

I don't blame you, we're just talking here. I have my opinion you have yours, but you're exagerating. 500 red flags? Give me the first 100 and I'll believe there's as many as you said.  
So how many of their clients can prove they were scammed by GAW? So far the only scam claims were false, and posted from newly created accounts. That should tell you something.

[jimmothy]

I'm not denying the fact that many have seen ROI. I don't know how you couldn't ROI if you bought a prime hashlet at $15. However you are going to need to provide evidence to support your statement that more 50% of people have turned a profit.

I got this info from the man himself. I haven't seen any complaints both here and on hashtalk and there's plenty of evidence in the ROI tracking threads (you could contact philipma1957 for more details, he was one of the early investors, who provided evidence of the payouts). If you bought hashlets in August or September you've already reached ROI or are very close to it. I've also talked to a number of people who had hosted  hardware before the hashlets came out and all of them are past ROI.
Also note, that most of GAW's sales came at the time of vaultbreakers and the innitial hashlet boom, when they openly promised to take care of their clients. If you bought at that period you profited, there's no other way.

So basically your only proof comes from trusting the word of a guy who has fabricated stories in the past?

Source:

We already reached out to Amazon, Walmart and Target for all three to give us an official response. I'll put it this way, one of them said (off the record for now) if GAW keeps using the XYZ name as a "partner" they will be forced to take legal action.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2l7myv/can_we_talk_about_gaw/cls7nq6

On the other hand current payouts aren't looking good, so hashcoin, or an increased demand on the marketplace are the only ways for October buyers to profit.

So you are basically admitting that there is no hope to profit at current rates unless the price goes through the roof which is unlikely because they are so unprofitable.

Why is it that GAW can no longer offer competitive rates?

That poll is based the votes of 35 people, that's not enough to draw conclusions, especially that just 10 more votes would tip the scales in the other direction. What are 10 votes compared to a couple hundred GAW's investors. Also in your first post you basically stated your opinion and supported it with Gavin's statement, so I'm not surprised most people voted in your favour.

I didn't really state my opinion I just included all the facts. Many people just aren't aware of how easy it is to anonymously prove a cloudmining company is actually mining.

Of course bitcoins lead developers opinion should be taken seriously and you cannot pretend that the cloudmining world is not full of ponzis like he says.

I don't blame you, we're just talking here. I have my opinion you have yours, but you're exagerating. 500 red flags? Give me the first 100 and I'll believe there's as many as you said.  
So how many of their clients can prove they were scammed by GAW? So far the only scam claims were false, and posted from newly created accounts. That should tell you something.

500 was obviously an exaggeration but I think 100 is actually possible and I'm tempted to make a list to find out.

As for how many people have been scammed, it really depends on your definition of a scam. They haven't outright stolen peoples money but they have acquired it via false advertising/promises/gimmicks. You could argue that it's not scamming, just bad business practices, but either way makes them untrustworthy.

GAW could have just ran a solid cloudmining company focused on giving their customers the chance to profit via prices only possible through massive economies of scale (like the original plan) but instead they just added a bunch of gimmicks/promises combined with aggressive/misleading marketing.

[EvilPanda]

So basically your only proof comes from trusting the word of a guy who has fabricated stories in the past?

Source:

We already reached out to Amazon, Walmart and Target for all three to give us an official response. I'll put it this way, one of them said (off the record for now) if GAW keeps using the XYZ name as a "partner" they will be forced to take legal action.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2l7myv/can_we_talk_about_gaw/cls7nq6

So your source is a hearsay. How does that prove he fabricated anything?

I expected you to read the rest and not base the response on just the first sentence.

I haven't seen any complaints both here and on hashtalk and there's plenty of evidence in the ROI tracking threads (you could contact philipma1957 for more details, he was one of the early investors, who provided evidence of the payouts). If you bought hashlets in August or September you've already reached ROI or are very close to it. I've also talked to a number of people who had hosted  hardware before the hashlets came out and all of them are past ROI.
Also note, that most of GAW's sales came at the time of vaultbreakers and the innitial hashlet boom, when they openly promised to take care of their clients. If you bought at that period you profited, there's no other way.

So you are basically admitting that there is no hope to profit at current rates unless the price goes through the roof which is unlikely because they are so unprofitable.

Why is it that GAW can no longer offer competitive rates?

1. Why are you putting in my mouth words that were never said? The payouts would simply have to increase a bit, preferably to the point before the lasth month's bitcoin crash.
2. You'll have to ask GAW.

I didn't really state my opinion I just included all the facts. Many people just aren't aware of how easy it is to anonymously prove a cloudmining company is actually mining.
Of course bitcoins lead developers opinion should be taken seriously and you cannot pretend that the cloudmining world is not full of ponzis like he says.

You are using it to support your claims, so if you find it convenient you have to at least partially agree with it.
Yes it is, but don't forget there are more legit companies than scams.

500 was obviously an exaggeration but I think 100 is actually possible and I'm tempted to make a list to find out.

As for how many people have been scammed, it really depends on your definition of a scam. They haven't outright stolen peoples money but they have acquired it via false advertising/promises/gimmicks. You could argue that it's not scamming, just bad business practices, but either way makes them untrustworthy.

GAW could have just ran a solid cloudmining company focused on giving their customers the chance to profit via prices only possible through massive economies of scale (like the original plan) but instead they just added a bunch of gimmicks/promises combined with aggressive/misleading marketing.

Let me know if you make the list. I don't think even real scams can have a 100.

That's why I'm arguing. Whoever wanted to sell could do it and leave. Most mining companies don't offer this option, so when GAW launched Hashlets they were one of the best and safest companies for cloud mining. They also allowed you to purchase with a credit card, which is a feature most sites don't offer.

They paid out more money than they aquired, and used the funds (this may shock you) not to run away, but buy more miners, invest in the company, which makes them trustworthy in my view.

Did you even try their services?

[jimmothy]

So basically your only proof comes from trusting the word of a guy who has fabricated stories in the past?

Source:

We already reached out to Amazon, Walmart and Target for all three to give us an official response. I'll put it this way, one of them said (off the record for now) if GAW keeps using the XYZ name as a "partner" they will be forced to take legal action.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2l7myv/can_we_talk_about_gaw/cls7nq6

So your source is a hearsay. How does that prove he fabricated anything?

This isn't a court, so hearsay is perfectly acceptable evidence. Keep in mind this is coming from the only bitcoin journal with integrity and the same people who brought the BFL/FTC fiasco to light.

I haven't seen any complaints both here and on hashtalk and there's plenty of evidence in the ROI tracking threads (you could contact philipma1957 for more details, he was one of the early investors, who provided evidence of the payouts). If you bought hashlets in August or September you've already reached ROI or are very close to it. I've also talked to a number of people who had hosted  hardware before the hashlets came out and all of them are past ROI.
Also note, that most of GAW's sales came at the time of vaultbreakers and the innitial hashlet boom, when they openly promised to take care of their clients. If you bought at that period you profited, there's no other way.

If you haven't seen complaints on here you clearly haven't been looking or you're intentionally ignoring them.

https://www.reddit.com/r/GAWMiners/ You can find plenty of complaints on this page alone.

Please stop with the bullshit argument that "some early birds have turned a profit, therefore most people must have turned a profit".

You have no idea how many people have and have not turned a profit so quit pretending you do based on a flimsy conjecture.

So you are basically admitting that there is no hope to profit at current rates unless the price goes through the roof which is unlikely because they are so unprofitable.

1. Why are you putting in my mouth words that were never said? The payouts would simply have to increase a bit, preferably to the point before the lasth month's bitcoin crash.

You're basically admitting it again. You are admitting that without divine intervention from the all mighty CEO there is no chance of turning a profit.

All you need is to hope/prey/sacrifice and maybe you're god will grant you ROI.

I didn't really state my opinion I just included all the facts. Many people just aren't aware of how easy it is to anonymously prove a cloudmining company is actually mining.
Of course bitcoins lead developers opinion should be taken seriously and you cannot pretend that the cloudmining world is not full of ponzis like he says.

You are using it to support your claims, so if you find it convenient you have to at least partially agree with it.
Yes it is, but don't forget there are more legit companies than scams.

You must be mistaken, there are much more scams than legit companies. I see a new cloudmining scam pop up weekly yet I only know of something like a dozen legit operations. There are more cloudmining ponzis that have already collapsed than there are legit companies.

They paid out more money than they aquired, and used the funds (this may shock you) not to run away, but buy more miners, invest in the company, which makes them trustworthy in my view.

Again, please stop with the bullshit conjecture.

As for not running with the funds, yes they haven't done it so far but that doesn't mean they wont. Hell they've already done it before:



If you guessed they took that $40k check, promised progress/updates for months, and 6 months later disappeared with no evidence of having done anything, then you guessed correctly.

You can read up more here: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/ashfield-broadband/gaw|sort:date

[EvilPanda]

This isn't a court, so hearsay is perfectly acceptable evidence. Keep in mind this is coming from the only bitcoin journal with integrity and the same people who brought the BFL/FTC fiasco to light.

I wouldn't call them that and prefer coindesk. I also don't follow gossip

If you haven't seen complaints on here you clearly haven't been looking or you're intentionally ignoring them.
https://www.reddit.com/r/GAWMiners/ You can find plenty of complaints on this page alone.
Please stop with the bullshit argument that "some early birds have turned a profit, therefore most people must have turned a profit".
You have no idea how many people have and have not turned a profit so quit pretending you do based on a flimsy conjecture.

And how many of these complaints were answered and bugs fixed?

Here's an example (the recent complaint)

"I am currently unable to withdraw my BTC earnings. The message I get when trying is: You do not have enough in your account to complete this transaction."
-There is a withdrawal fee of like .0001 btc. Your withdrawal amount must leave at least enough to cover the fee.
-This worked, thank you! I've never had to do this before.. is this a new requirement?

Looks like you see only the things you want

I have seen a lot of fake complaints coming from people who just registered and/or couldn't show a single proof. If that's a complaint in your view then GAW has plenty.
Moreover, over a 100 posts from different people who profited and no posts from people who bought hashlets 2 months ago or earlier and haven't.

You're basically admitting it again. You are admitting that without divine intervention from the all mighty CEO there is no chance of turning a profit.
All you need is to hope/prey/sacrifice and maybe you're god will grant you ROI.

More sarcasm please.
The payouts dropped without his intervention so its not needed for them to go back to that point again.

You must be mistaken, there are much more scams than legit companies. I see a new cloudmining scam pop up weekly yet I only know of something like a dozen legit operations. There are more cloudmining ponzis that have already collapsed than there are legit companies.

You can find over 30 functioning cloud mining sites at the moment.
In your view almost all of them are scams? That's extremely skeptical.

Again, please stop with the bullshit conjecture.
As for not running with the funds, yes they haven't done it so far but that doesn't mean they wont. Hell they've already done it before:
https://i.imgur.com/Og9F7Yp.jpg
If you guessed they took that $40k check, promised progress/updates for months, and 6 months later disappeared with no evidence of having done anything, then you guessed correctly.
You can read up more here: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/ashfield-broadband/gaw|sort:date

Haha that's bullshit IMO. They owned a registered, legit business and never run anywhere. I think they sold the company, but I might be wrong.
Anyway, if somebody had a proof, they'd have simply made them return the check, start a case in court and so on.
Btw. $40k? They recently paid over 1 million for a domain and probably twice that for their Bitmain order.

Oh, and you haven't answered this:
Have you ever tried their services? Did you skip that question because you haven't?

[Etanllah]

While I would agree that the ROI on mining hashlets has dropped dramatically over the past month or 2 I still believe that you can earn money from GAW Hashlets. First, if Hashcoin ends up being even remotely decent hashlet owners will be able to make a profit. Also, Prime owners can certainly make a profit if their price keeps increasing. Someone people have been able to buy them at $35 and last I saw they were $45.

[jimmothy]

This isn't a court, so hearsay is perfectly acceptable evidence. Keep in mind this is coming from the only bitcoin journal with integrity and the same people who brought the BFL/FTC fiasco to light.

I wouldn't call them that and prefer coindesk. I also don't follow gossip

So what your saying is that you prefer the group of "journalists" who are paid to write positive articles about any shady/scammy company, over the group of journalists who don't accept bribes and have integrity?

Coindesk is a joke. To call it a journal is a stretch, it's more like a massive collection of paid advertisements. (PS: 99% of GAW's articles are paid for)

You're basically admitting it again. You are admitting that without divine intervention from the all mighty CEO there is no chance of turning a profit.
All you need is to hope/prey/sacrifice and maybe you're god will grant you ROI.

More sarcasm please.
The payouts dropped without his intervention so its not needed for them to go back to that point again.

But why did the magical zenpool all of the sudden become way less profitable? Don't you find that convenient how it happens to coincide with the launch of hashpoints/hashcoin?

You must be mistaken, there are much more scams than legit companies. I see a new cloudmining scam pop up weekly yet I only know of something like a dozen legit operations. There are more cloudmining ponzis that have already collapsed than there are legit companies.

You can find over 30 functioning cloud mining sites at the moment.
In your view almost all of them are scams? That's extremely skeptical.

Yes that's exactly my view. Most of the scams are not very successful but some do take off.

Haha that's bullshit IMO. They owned a registered, legit business and never run anywhere. I think they sold the company, but I might be wrong.
Anyway, if somebody had a proof, they'd have simply made them return the check, start a case in court and so on.
Btw. $40k?

So what you're saying is that that story is fabricated by multiple people living in that little town? Seems a bit of a stretch.

Here's what some more people think about this "legit business" http://www.topix.com/forum/city/canaan-vt/THJFBNV4MIFIR075C

They recently paid over 1 million for a domain and probably twice that for their Bitmain order.

Just like how they totally bought a pool nobody has ever heard of for $8 million?

I have no doubt the Bitmain order is real but taking his word for anything/everything is simply foolish.

Oh, and you haven't answered this:
Have you ever tried their services? Did you skip that question because you haven't?

Yes I have a free 10 gh/s. I have to admit the website design is very slick and to be honest I'd recommend it to my noob friends if it didn't look like a scam and wasn't full of arbitrary games.

One last thing, I noticed that only around a week after launch GAW had amassed 250 gh/s. Interesting enough there was no 250 gh/s increase on the litecoin network.

I've heard estimates that they have 500 gh/s by now, how is that possible when they aren't even visible on the blockchain? https://www.litecoinpool.org/pools

How can you hide half the litecoin network?

[bitgeek]

PS: 99% of GAW's articles are paid for

Proof or didn't happen.

[jimmothy]

PS: 99% of GAW's articles are paid for

Proof or didn't happen.

https://www.google.com/search?q=gaw&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=sb#rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=sb&q=gaw+site:prweb.com

[bitgeek]

PS: 99% of GAW's articles are paid for

Proof or didn't happen.

https://www.google.com/search?q=gaw&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=sb#rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=sb&q=gaw+site:prweb.com

Still no proof!

Did you even check what the links are about?

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2012/10/prweb9978026.htm
Also on the speaker panel are Mr. Kenneth Gaw, GAW Capital’s President & Managing Principal with a session on ‘Repositioning and Refurbishment Projects in

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2011/6/prweb8506218.htm
"Jesus Christ is Margaret Gaw in her new nonfiction guide"

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2009/07/prweb2634024.htm
Goodwin Gaw, Founder and Managing Principal, Gaw Capital. Under Mr. Gaw's leadership, Hong Kong-based Gaw Capital has become a leading real estate investment company

A pathetic attempt

[jimmothy]

PS: 99% of GAW's articles are paid for

Proof or didn't happen.

https://www.google.com/search?q=gaw&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=sb#rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=sb&q=gaw+site:prweb.com

Still no proof!

Did you even check what the links are about?

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2012/10/prweb9978026.htm
Also on the speaker panel are Mr. Kenneth Gaw, GAW Capital’s President & Managing Principal with a session on ‘Repositioning and Refurbishment Projects in

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2011/6/prweb8506218.htm
"Jesus Christ is Margaret Gaw in her new nonfiction guide"

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2009/07/prweb2634024.htm
Goodwin Gaw, Founder and Managing Principal, Gaw Capital. Under Mr. Gaw's leadership, Hong Kong-based Gaw Capital has become a leading real estate investment company

A pathetic attempt

Maybe you aren't seeing the same page as me. Here's what I see:

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2014/08/prweb12100331.htm

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2014/09/prweb12169131.htm

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2014/08/prweb12121662.htm

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2014/08/prweb12072040.htm

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2014/09/prweb12154405.htm

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2014/08/prweb12089096.htm

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2014/04/prweb11775300.htm

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2014/10/prweb12220305.htm

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2014/09/prweb12135161.htm

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2014/04/prweb11719363.htm

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2014/04/prweb11729041.htm

[Mabsark]

Whether GAW is a ponzi or not, they're still significantly more expensive than AMHash.

[bitgeek]

PS: 99% of GAW's articles are paid for

Proof or didn't happen.

https://www.google.com/search?q=gaw&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=sb#rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=sb&q=gaw+site:prweb.com

Still no proof!

Did you even check what the links are about?

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2012/10/prweb9978026.htm
Also on the speaker panel are Mr. Kenneth Gaw, GAW Capital’s President & Managing Principal with a session on ‘Repositioning and Refurbishment Projects in

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2011/6/prweb8506218.htm
"Jesus Christ is Margaret Gaw in her new nonfiction guide"

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2009/07/prweb2634024.htm
Goodwin Gaw, Founder and Managing Principal, Gaw Capital. Under Mr. Gaw's leadership, Hong Kong-based Gaw Capital has become a leading real estate investment company

A pathetic attempt

Maybe you aren't seeing the same page as me. Here's what I see:
http://www.prweb.com/releases/2014/08/prweb12100331.htm
http://www.prweb.com/releases/2014/09/prweb12169131.htm
http://www.prweb.com/releases/2014/08/prweb12121662.htm
http://www.prweb.com/releases/2014/08/prweb12072040.htm
http://www.prweb.com/releases/2014/09/prweb12154405.htm
http://www.prweb.com/releases/2014/08/prweb12089096.htm
http://www.prweb.com/releases/2014/04/prweb11775300.htm
http://www.prweb.com/releases/2014/10/prweb12220305.htm
http://www.prweb.com/releases/2014/09/prweb12135161.htm
http://www.prweb.com/releases/2014/04/prweb11719363.htm
http://www.prweb.com/releases/2014/04/prweb11729041.htm

You showed a google search link with ~60 links. 10 of them are about GAW Miners, the rest about some other unrelated things with the word GAW.
Point?  

You said 99% of articles about GAW miners were paid ones.

Proof?  

[Feneusens]

Hashlet is no longer worth it. There are far better, cheaper and maintenance free cloud mining.

[Mabsark]

Hashlet is no longer worth it. There are far better, cheaper and maintenance free cloud mining.

Nobody can offer maintenance free cloud mining permanently. That's a clear sign of a ponzi. Do you think a proper company is going to pay those costs for you?

[EvilPanda]

So what your saying is that you prefer the group of "journalists" who are paid to write positive articles about any shady/scammy company, over the group of journalists who don't accept bribes and have integrity?
Coindesk is a joke. To call it a journal is a stretch, it's more like a massive collection of paid advertisements. (PS: 99% of GAW's articles are paid for)

You are already being called out on this, so I won't add to the mix
Just note that there are several other big sites with their reviews, like cryptocoinsnews.com, but they must be accepting bribes too
Conspiracy theories FTW!

But why did the magical zenpool all of the sudden become way less profitable? Don't you find that convenient how it happens to coincide with the launch of hashpoints/hashcoin?

You ask me and I ask you, we are in the same boat here, but I wouldn't connect it with hashcoin, rather with that 30% bitcoin plunge.
Anyway, it doesn't show they aren't mining. Other pools and services also noticed a decrease in payouts, check opinions about ghash and genesis.

Yes that's exactly my view. Most of the scams are not very successful but some do take off.

I'm not that pessimistic, but this helps me understand why you're attacking cloud minig so much.

So what you're saying is that that story is fabricated by multiple people living in that little town? Seems a bit of a stretch.
Here's what some more people think about this "legit business" http://www.topix.com/forum/city/canaan-vt/THJFBNV4MIFIR075C

I think the story is exaggerated. As I said before if somebody had solid proof they broke the contract they would have simply gone to court.
Usually, the truth is somewhere in the middle.

Just like how they totally bought a pool nobody has ever heard of for $8 million?
I have no doubt the Bitmain order is real but taking his word for anything/everything is simply foolish.

When the buyer and the seller both confirm the transaction I believe it. Why not?
If BitcoinWallet.com was sold for $250k, there's no reason to believe btc.com didn't cost much more.
Anyway, we have proof they own the domain and the money to buy it.
Believe or not, I saw one of their addresses with a couple thousand BTC.

Yes I have a free 10 gh/s. I have to admit the website design is very slick and to be honest I'd recommend it to my noob friends if it didn't look like a scam and wasn't full of arbitrary games.
One last thing, I noticed that only around a week after launch GAW had amassed 250 gh/s. Interesting enough there was no 250 gh/s increase on the litecoin network.
I've heard estimates that they have 500 gh/s by now, how is that possible when they aren't even visible on the blockchain? https://www.litecoinpool.org/pools
How can you hide half the litecoin network?

Did you count the miners they had in their warehouse back then? I saw over 300 units, mostly ~40MH Zeus rigs.
I don't think they were mining LTC exclusively. Probably went after other coins too.

Hashlet is no longer worth it. There are far better, cheaper and maintenance free cloud mining.

Nobody can offer maintenance free cloud mining permanently. That's a clear sign of a ponzi. Do you think a proper company is going to pay those costs for you?

+1

[jimmothy]

Maybe you aren't seeing the same page as me. Here's what I see:
http://www.prweb.com/releases/2014/08/prweb12100331.htm
http://www.prweb.com/releases/2014/09/prweb12169131.htm
http://www.prweb.com/releases/2014/08/prweb12121662.htm
http://www.prweb.com/releases/2014/08/prweb12072040.htm
http://www.prweb.com/releases/2014/09/prweb12154405.htm
http://www.prweb.com/releases/2014/08/prweb12089096.htm
http://www.prweb.com/releases/2014/04/prweb11775300.htm
http://www.prweb.com/releases/2014/10/prweb12220305.htm
http://www.prweb.com/releases/2014/09/prweb12135161.htm
http://www.prweb.com/releases/2014/04/prweb11719363.htm
http://www.prweb.com/releases/2014/04/prweb11729041.htm

You showed a google search link with ~60 links. 10 of them are about GAW Miners, the rest about some other unrelated things with the word GAW.
Point?  

You said 99% of articles about GAW miners were paid ones.

Proof?  

Sorry, I assumed you were capable of using your brain to determine which links were completely unrelated to the GAW we are talking about, but I guess I was wrong.

If you don't understand context and exaggeration, I'm not sure there's any point discussing further with you.

The point which you're obviously ignoring is that just about every major press released is written by GAW, supplied with info by GAW, and paid to have spammed across the internet by GAW.

It's a huge red flag but I'm sure that means absolutely nothing to you.

[jimmothy]

So what your saying is that you prefer the group of "journalists" who are paid to write positive articles about any shady/scammy company, over the group of journalists who don't accept bribes and have integrity?
Coindesk is a joke. To call it a journal is a stretch, it's more like a massive collection of paid advertisements. (PS: 99% of GAW's articles are paid for)

You are already being called out on this, so I won't add to the mix
Just note that there are several other big sites with their reviews, like cryptocoinsnews.com, but they must be accepting bribes too
Conspiracy theories FTW!

Are you really going to suggest this guy has no incentive to write about GAW? They look pretty intimate to me.



Anyways my point is that GAW uses prweb period, so they are certainly willing to pay people to write/publish positive articles about themselves.

But why did the magical zenpool all of the sudden become way less profitable? Don't you find that convenient how it happens to coincide with the launch of hashpoints/hashcoin?

You ask me and I ask you, we are in the same boat here, but I wouldn't connect it with hashcoin, rather with that 30% bitcoin plunge.
Anyway, it doesn't show they aren't mining. Other pools and services also noticed a decrease in payouts, check opinions about ghash and genesis.

(Disclaimer: conspiracy theory)

The way I see it is that they decreased the payout of zenpool only so that it made sense for everyone to switch over to mining hashpoints.

If you were trying to make money by any means/scheme possible would you rather payout in btc (which costs you money), or payout in hashpoints (which you can print an unlimited amount of for free)?

So what you're saying is that that story is fabricated by multiple people living in that little town? Seems a bit of a stretch.
Here's what some more people think about this "legit business" http://www.topix.com/forum/city/canaan-vt/THJFBNV4MIFIR075C

I think the story is exaggerated. As I said before if somebody had solid proof they broke the contract they would have simply gone to court.
Usually, the truth is somewhere in the middle.

How else could you explain those people exchanging emails for months, wondering when GAW would finish their project only to find out 6 months later that GAW hasn't even obtained the permits to begin the project?

Just like how they totally bought a pool nobody has ever heard of for $8 million?
I have no doubt the Bitmain order is real but taking his word for anything/everything is simply foolish.

When the buyer and the seller both confirm the transaction I believe it. Why not?
If BitcoinWallet.com was sold for $250k, there's no reason to believe btc.com didn't cost much more.
Anyway, we have proof they own the domain and the money to buy it.
Believe or not, I saw one of their addresses with a couple thousand BTC.

I'm not talking about BTC.com. Buying that for $1m is within the realm of possibility because it is a premium domain and the sale itself is an advertisement.

However buying a pool nobody uses for $8 million is just absurd. I'd love to know what makes a litecoin pool worth that much.

I'm sure it has to do with whatever makes them magically payout more than you would get converting mined ltc to btc.

Yes I have a free 10 gh/s. I have to admit the website design is very slick and to be honest I'd recommend it to my noob friends if it didn't look like a scam and wasn't full of arbitrary games.
One last thing, I noticed that only around a week after launch GAW had amassed 250 gh/s. Interesting enough there was no 250 gh/s increase on the litecoin network.
I've heard estimates that they have 500 gh/s by now, how is that possible when they aren't even visible on the blockchain? https://www.litecoinpool.org/pools
How can you hide half the litecoin network?

Did you count the miners they had in their warehouse back then? I saw over 300 units, mostly ~40MH Zeus rigs.
I don't think they were mining LTC exclusively. Probably went after other coins too.

300 x 40 mh/s = 12 GH/s. GAW's hashrate is claimed to be somewhere between 500-1000 GH/s. How you can hide that much hashrate on the litecoin network is beyond me.

Do you understand now why I and many others demand proof of mining via a mining address instead of pics?

Here's why I'm led to believe GAW is claiming to have at least 1000 GH/s: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=720844.msg9516019#msg9516019

[bitgeek]

Maybe you aren't seeing the same page as me. Here's what I see:
http://www.prweb.com/releases/2014/08/prweb12100331.htm
http://www.prweb.com/releases/2014/09/prweb12169131.htm
http://www.prweb.com/releases/2014/08/prweb12121662.htm
http://www.prweb.com/releases/2014/08/prweb12072040.htm
http://www.prweb.com/releases/2014/09/prweb12154405.htm
http://www.prweb.com/releases/2014/08/prweb12089096.htm
http://www.prweb.com/releases/2014/04/prweb11775300.htm
http://www.prweb.com/releases/2014/10/prweb12220305.htm
http://www.prweb.com/releases/2014/09/prweb12135161.htm
http://www.prweb.com/releases/2014/04/prweb11719363.htm
http://www.prweb.com/releases/2014/04/prweb11729041.htm

You showed a google search link with ~60 links. 10 of them are about GAW Miners, the rest about some other unrelated things with the word GAW.
Point?  

You said 99% of articles about GAW miners were paid ones.

Proof?  

Sorry I assumed you were capable of using your brain to determine which links were completely unrelated to the GAW we are talking about but I guess I was wrong.

If you don't understand context and exaggeration, I'm not sure there's any point discussing this further with you.

The point which you're obviously ignoring is that just about every major press released is written by GAW supplied with info by GAW and paid to have spammed across the internet by GAW.

It's a huge red flag but I'm sure that means absolutely nothing to you.

The problem is most of the links were unrelated.

99% an exaggeration? A rather large one don't you think? Since you can't prove even half of them are.
You said a complete bullshit that you can't prove and you know it, so the best way is to call me "incapable to understand."  

And you even supported it with another bullshit: "every major press released is written by GAW".

Time to start being responsible for your words.
Got proof or is it another "exaggeration" (lie).

[jimmothy]

99% an exaggeration? A rather large one don't you think? Since you can't prove even half of them are.
You said a complete bullshit that you can't prove and you know it, so the best way is to call me "incapable to understand."  

That's normally how exaggerations work.

You didn't actually think I found 100 articles about GAW and only 1 was not written/paid for by GAW did you?

And you even supported it with another bullshit: "every major press released is written by GAW".

How convenient of you to remove the "just about" from the beginning of that quote.

Time to start being responsible for your words.
Got proof or is it another "exaggeration" (lie).

How can you tell me to be responsible with my words when you're willing to chop up the quote to change the meaning?

In my experience, just about every article I've seen about GAW has stemmed from prweb. (or been supplied info exclusively from GAW)

You can argue about semantics all you want (although I won't), it won't hide the fact that GAW is willing to pay to have positive articles published about themselves.

[KC6TTR]

99% an exaggeration? A rather large one don't you think? Since you can't prove even half of them are.
You said a complete bullshit that you can't prove and you know it, so the best way is to call me "incapable to understand."  

That's normally how exaggerations work.

You didn't actually think I found 100 articles about GAW and only 1 was not written/paid for by GAW did you?

And you even supported it with another bullshit: "every major press released is written by GAW".

How convenient of you to remove the "just about" from the beginning of that quote.

Time to start being responsible for your words.
Got proof or is it another "exaggeration" (lie).

How can you tell me to be responsible with my words when you're willing to chop up the quote to change the meaning?

In my experience, just about every article I've seen about GAW has stemmed from prweb. (or been supplied info exclusively from GAW)

You can argue about semantics all you want (although I won't), it won't hide the fact that GAW is willing to pay to have positive articles published about themselves.

+1
Sooner or later, enough information that is already in the public domain will be presented to those who currently fail to comprehend what is happening and something will finally "click" in their heads.

Other than that, my suggestion is BUYER BEWARE.

Scott-

[bitgeek]

99% an exaggeration? A rather large one don't you think? Since you can't prove even half of them are.
You said a complete bullshit that you can't prove and you know it, so the best way is to call me "incapable to understand."  

That's normally how exaggerations work.

You didn't actually think I found 100 articles about GAW and only 1 was not written/paid for by GAW did you?

So how much was it really (no bullshitting)? 50%? 30%? Because there had to be much less since we got to the point that 99% was a lie.
All you're doing is telling lies you can't prove and calling them exaggerations. The strangest thing about this whole thing is that you're putting so much effort into making up these stories and "exaggerating" them.

Pathetic!

[Skatter]

I recommend to further do your own research on GAW or better research Josh Garza and come up with your own conclusion. No point to-ing and fro-ing on the conversation as its not going anywhere.
Those images/links are payed advertisements scroll down to the bottom of the page and check pricing.

[EvilPanda]

Don't you worry they have even more revievs and if companies didn't pay for advertising and SEO such offers would cease to exist.
I find it difficult to understand why some of you see advertising as a bad thing.

[Poppy]

Outside from the advertisement, and shameless advertising which I assume everyone does.

Have they ever missed a payout?

[EvilPanda]

Outside from the advertisement, and shameless advertising which I assume everyone does.

Have they ever missed a payout?

Not to my knowledge.

[WaffleMaster]

It clicked with me and the $6.95 HashletMulti's I have (14 gh/s) won't even go as an offer on their "market" (which doesn't actually seem to work at all unless you're buying) for $4.00. So, I guess my $80 is gone along with the other thousands of people who can't sell their hashlets and have had their accounts forcefully put into 2fa without permission in order to withdraw bitcoins. At least I only did a little $80 trial run lol, but I sure could have used that to buy some decent services!

[suchmoon]

It clicked with me and the $6.95 HashletMulti's I have (14 gh/s) won't even go as an offer on their "market" (which doesn't actually seem to work at all unless you're buying) for $4.00. So, I guess my $80 is gone along with the other thousands of people who can't sell their hashlets and have had their accounts forcefully put into 2fa without permission in order to withdraw bitcoins. At least I only did a little $80 trial run lol, but I sure could have used that to buy some decent services!

Please keep in mind there is a known issue that you can't see your own hashlets on the Market when you list them. Not sure if that's what you're experiencing.

[organizer]

Unless you believe in PayCoin, there's not really a reason to buy any hashlet at the moment:

https://ltcgearcalc.com/hashlets-vs-ltcgear.php

If you bought them early on (Aug/Sept) I think most people made full return/profit and hopefully sold them for more... but with the fees they charge and what 1MH/s gets you right now... probably best off to wait for a new generation of product.

[FattyMcButterpants]

Unless you believe in PayCoin, there's not really a reason to buy any hashlet at the moment:

https://ltcgearcalc.com/hashlets-vs-ltcgear.php

If you bought them early on (Aug/Sept) I think most people made full return/profit and hopefully sold them for more... but with the fees they charge and what 1MH/s gets you right now... probably best off to wait for a new generation of product.

It is very unprofessional for a company to bash it's competition. The fact alone that LTCgear is saying negative things about one of their competitors is reason enough to not invest in their "service"

I also think that LTCgear is almost certainly a scam/ponzi as they literally popped up out of nowhere with probably a hundred shills advertising their site

[NeonTranceBadger]

Unless you believe in PayCoin, there's not really a reason to buy any hashlet at the moment:

https://ltcgearcalc.com/hashlets-vs-ltcgear.php

If you bought them early on (Aug/Sept) I think most people made full return/profit and hopefully sold them for more... but with the fees they charge and what 1MH/s gets you right now... probably best off to wait for a new generation of product.

It is very unprofessional for a company to bash it's competition. The fact alone that LTCgear is saying negative things about one of their competitors is reason enough to not invest in their "service"

I also think that LTCgear is almost certainly a scam/ponzi as they literally popped up out of nowhere with probably a hundred shills advertising their site

LTCGear is not affiliated with ltcgearcalc.com that is a third party ran site.  The owner of LTCGear only posts on LTCGear and hasn't been on any of the forums since at least last year. Also LTCGear has been around almost 6 months before GAW existed so they didn't just pop up out of no where.

[Just Magicmann]

I've owned a ZenMiner Hashlet (1Mh/s) for eighteen days. I've earned a grand total of eleven cents. Worth it? Not particularly. I didn't pay for it, as I won it in a contest, but the fact remains that even paying the current ZenMarket low of $3.78, one would be looking at an ROI period of more than six-hundred days at current difficulty.

[mullvads]

Unless you believe in PayCoin, there's not really a reason to buy any hashlet at the moment:

https://ltcgearcalc.com/hashlets-vs-ltcgear.php

If you bought them early on (Aug/Sept) I think most people made full return/profit and hopefully sold them for more... but with the fees they charge and what 1MH/s gets you right now... probably best off to wait for a new generation of product.

It is very unprofessional for a company to bash it's competition. The fact alone that LTCgear is saying negative things about one of their competitors is reason enough to not invest in their "service"

I also think that LTCgear is almost certainly a scam/ponzi as they literally popped up out of nowhere with probably a hundred shills advertising their site

awwwww poor baby we got a gaw cock sucker in here

[Just Magicmann]

Unless you believe in PayCoin, there's not really a reason to buy any hashlet at the moment:

https://ltcgearcalc.com/hashlets-vs-ltcgear.php

If you bought them early on (Aug/Sept) I think most people made full return/profit and hopefully sold them for more... but with the fees they charge and what 1MH/s gets you right now... probably best off to wait for a new generation of product.

It is very unprofessional for a company to bash it's competition. The fact alone that LTCgear is saying negative things about one of their competitors is reason enough to not invest in their "service"

I also think that LTCgear is almost certainly a scam/ponzi as they literally popped up out of nowhere with probably a hundred shills advertising their site

awwwww poor baby we got a gaw cock sucker in here

Aww... Poor baby, we have an immature person in here.

[I_IZ_CEO]

Great thread, keep up the good work!
I see jimmothy is at it again, ripping new asshole.
They team up on him, he shreds them up.
All that is missing is evilpandas other account, airflame.

[Oldminer]

No. The pump 'n dump is over. Thx.

Oh and please keep LTC Gear posts out of this thread. Its really not in 'our' interests. Let the noobs be noobs.

[mm5aes]

No. The pump 'n dump is over. Thx.

Oh and please keep LTC Gear posts out of this thread. Its really not in 'our' interests. Let the noobs be noobs.

God no - Don't want to be doing any more snot wiping every time the difficulty goes up 

Great website by the way Organizer. Calculator is super useful. Was the look a homage to hashtalk? :grinning:

[Xerath]

Gotta love that ridiculous maintenance fee...

Its bad as it is, when you try to sell a hashlet on the marketplace..

[darkangel11]

No. The pump 'n dump is over. Thx.

Oh and please keep LTC Gear posts out of this thread. Its really not in 'our' interests. Let the noobs be noobs.

Too late.
You're already pushing your ltcscam in every cloud mining thread.
I'd also like to congratulate you on your rich trust profile.  Are all cloud mining pushers also scammers?

[strangerdanger101]

Gotta love that ridiculous maintenance fee...

Its bad as it is, when you try to sell a hashlet on the marketplace..

Ya i bought a cleverbot solo hashlet just to check it out for the last week this is how the activity log looks like....

Device Name
    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (CleverHashlet)
Power
    1 MH
BTC Payout
    0.00021081 BTC
Maintenance Fee
    -0.00021080 BTC

so thats a grand total of 0.00000001 BTC in 24 hours of mining what a fucking joke.... I can lick one faucet and make more in 5 seconds

[Berthorl]

Are haslets worth it? I would say no look at the response from others like this https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=875487.0

Too many are pretty upset with GAW. I would just move on to a legit cloud service site like bitmain provides called hashnest.

[WaffleMaster]

Gotta love that ridiculous maintenance fee...

Its bad as it is, when you try to sell a hashlet on the marketplace..

Ya i bought a cleverbot solo hashlet just to check it out for the last week this is how the activity log looks like....

Device Name
    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (CleverHashlet)
Power
    1 MH
BTC Payout
    0.00021081 BTC
Maintenance Fee
    -0.00021080 BTC

so thats a grand total of 0.00000001 BTC in 24 hours of mining what a fucking joke.... I can lick one faucet and make more in 5 seconds

LOL this is an amazing point I haven't even seen on any other threads.

[Snipe85]

Are haslets worth it? I would say no look at the response from others like this https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=875487.0

Too many are pretty upset with GAW. I would just move on to a legit cloud service site like bitmain provides called hashnest.

Bitmain indirectly provides hash power to GAW, because that's where they bought the miners.

[suchmoon]

Are haslets worth it? I would say no look at the response from others like this https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=875487.0

Too many are pretty upset with GAW. I would just move on to a legit cloud service site like bitmain provides called hashnest.

Bitmain indirectly provides hash power to GAW, because that's where they bought the miners.

And your point is? Buy Hashnest and skip the middleman or what?

[Snipe85]

Are haslets worth it? I would say no look at the response from others like this https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=875487.0

Too many are pretty upset with GAW. I would just move on to a legit cloud service site like bitmain provides called hashnest.

Bitmain indirectly provides hash power to GAW, because that's where they bought the miners.

And your point is? Buy Hashnest and skip the middleman or what?

The point is all cloud minings are comparable. They share hardware and use the same tactics to get cash from people. Sending someone from one to another is pointless because none of them are profitable or worth the risk.

[Mabsark]

And your point is? Buy Hashnest and skip the middleman or what?

Why would you want a middleman in the chain making a profit off you? Of course it's better to skip the middlemen, regardless of what those middlemen say or do to make you think otherwise.

Middlemen are generally parasites, regardless of the industry.