Was Bitcoin actually just a Pump and Dump?

[johnyj]

Actually everthing is a pump and dump, including fiat money, house, gold, Iphone, religion or pretty girls, as long as you can find a person who are willing to pay a lot in exchange for it, then it is a successful pump and dump 

[ninjaskip]

Actually everthing is a pump and dump, including fiat money, house, gold, Iphone, religion or pretty girls, as long as you can find a person who are willing to pay a lot in exchange for it, then it is a successful pump and dump 

Very true 

[HotHamHock]

You have found a fundamental value problem, which has been discussed here at length earlier. The fact that bitcoin has value, contradicts Mises' regression theorem, which basically states that the value must be based in part on yesterdays value, and ultimately, from the time deep in history, when some commodity got exchange value because it was the preferred commodity to hold for later. (Discounting debt as money, which could have existed before or after or at the same time).

Some believe that this means that bitcoin must have some value for direct use, in addition to it's money (exchange) value. I do not agree, I think the vision of the future usage of bitcoin as money, was enough to give it initial value, and that the regression theorem has to be shelved.

What is your thought to the argument that Bitcoin does, in fact, comply with the regression theorem since an established value for "yesterday" was assumed as soon as the earliest exchanges had pegged a USD valuation for means of exchange and trade became possible? Continuing to trace back you will find the pre-monetary commodity that makes the point of reference all that's necessary, yes?

Secondly, users might have found further value in bitcoin's inherent properties, such as its low costs, deflationary nature, pseudo-anonymity, lack of central authority, etc, as opposed to an initially established value being a purely speculative one.

[choeymethod]

OP is on to something here

[harrymmmm]

OP is on to something here

Rubbish.

[capoeira]

one could also ask:
Is Bitcoin actually just a Pump and Dump?

[ninjaskip]

one could also ask:
Is Bitcoin actually just a Pump and Dump?

 

[link.janet]

No way, bitcoin will rise up soon. Give it a some time..

[Seketsuna]

No way, bitcoin will rise up soon. Give it a some time..

its been doing for the past months is going down thought lol

[capoeira]

No way, bitcoin will rise up soon. Give it a some time..

its been doing for the past months is going down thought lol

it's having a hard time to turn bullish on the daily atm

[BitBear2]

No way, bitcoin will rise up soon. Give it a some time..

Agree. Wathing the charts, and considering the movement of the market in the past year we can see the similarity. Maby in the purst few months of 2015 we will see a new spike.

[promojo]

She be pumping right now!  Look out.  China rising.

[egghead123]

No but it definitely did get a good pump before a good dump..maybe its time to pump it again?Bitcoin is just Bitcoin a completely decentralised entity that has no control over who buys or sells it.It doesnt really care so you are free to buy or pump sell or dump anytime.Bitcoin ain't to blame for human nature.

[Carra23]

It is and will always be a pump and dump. The higher the price become more difficult will it be to manipulate and the percentage swings will lessen.

[STT]

Actually everthing is a pump and dump, including fiat money, house, gold, Iphone, religion or pretty girls, as long as you can find a person who are willing to pay a lot in exchange for it, then it is a successful pump and dump  

No I dont think thats the case, unless we talking blow up dolls then there is much more dynamics to the 'pretty girls' thing then just a false perception and let down/collapse in interest.  Obviously we know human interaction and attraction would relate to much more long term dynamics within the human race then 'pricing'.

Silly example, but say gold is not a pump and dump and people dont acknowledge this but its popular now and previously over time for good reason.  There are real repeatable dynamics behind why is gold valued.  At worst its chemical and physical structure is known and intact now as it will be in future, very simple case but that part is a solid dynamic not a pump.
    The iphone has a utility, it might be an expensive trinket but also achieves far more cheaply and compactly a number of tasks that humans were already attempting to do on a daily basis, say navigation.   Thats not a pump and dump, prices can vary but we are not talking a complete falsehood to the apple trend

Even something as undefinable as religion, people have been worshipping stuff in the sky for thousands of years.   We are talking a repeatable human phenomena there, for whatever reason this area represents something of value to people, has and will do.     A completely false dynamic it is not then.

Fiat currency on the other hand is possibly most guilty or increasingly guilty of not relating to anything of value.  A falsehood or deception, at present there are misconceptions in dollar value and this is something which could collapse.  Ultimately it is just ink and paper, the rest is presumed and relied on to have a structure to it.


The most solid thing about a house is the land value.   You could say its a pump and pump in that the house will fall down some time, certainly prices vary but it has a base use especially if the land is owned.   The most wishy washy, pumped short term and vulnerable to perception change of all your examples is fiat money and it could be worthless most easily also I believe

[ninjaskip]

Actually everthing is a pump and dump, including fiat money, house, gold, Iphone, religion or pretty girls, as long as you can find a person who are willing to pay a lot in exchange for it, then it is a successful pump and dump  

No I dont think thats the case, unless we talking blow up dolls then there is much more dynamics to the 'pretty girls' thing then just a false perception and let down/collapse in interest.  Obviously we know human interaction and attraction would relate to much more long term dynamics within the human race then 'pricing'.

Silly example, but say gold is not a pump and dump and people dont acknowledge this but its popular now and previously over time for good reason.  There are real repeatable dynamics behind why is gold valued.  At worst its chemical and physical structure is known and intact now as it will be in future, very simple case but that part is a solid dynamic not a pump.
    The iphone has a utility, it might be an expensive trinket but also achieves far more cheaply and compactly a number of tasks that humans were already attempting to do on a daily basis, say navigation.   Thats not a pump and dump, prices can vary but we are not talking a complete falsehood to the apple trend

Even something as undefinable as religion, people have been worshipping stuff in the sky for thousands of years.   We are talking a repeatable human phenomena there, for whatever reason this area represents something of value to people, has and will do.     A completely false dynamic it is not then.

Fiat currency on the other hand is possibly most guilty or increasingly guilty of not relating to anything of value.  A falsehood or deception, at present there are misconceptions in dollar value and this is something which could collapse.  Ultimately it is just ink and paper, the rest is presumed and relied on to have a structure to it.


The most solid thing about a house is the land value.   You could say its a pump and pump in that the house will fall down some time, certainly prices vary but it has a base use especially if the land is owned.   The most wishy washy, pumped short term and vulnerable to perception change of all your examples is fiat money and it could be worthless most easily also I believe

We can relate Pump and Dump with manipulation of the price, and in this case Gold is a Pump and Dump, as the price is manipulated on a daily basis, that happens every morning from London, UK.
Currencies are also a pump and Dump, as you may know 6 major banks got fined a few days ago for manipulating the forex trade on a daily basis, also from London, UK. They were buying and selling trillions of dollars worth of foreign currencies between this 6 banks.Hsbc, City bank, JP Morgan, etc..
Now talking about Bitcoin, the same rule applies, the value is highly manipulated on a daily basis too, which makes the whole Bitcoin story about Satoshi and fighting banks and all that a big fiasco.

[STT]

Gold is a Pump and Dump, as the price is manipulated on a daily basis

If gold is worth anything its because it is hard to change especially from its obvious makeup.   Its not even especially useful hence its not subject to business trends

Lies deception, theft even and most evidently is cheap money, huge leverage by the banks on all sorts of assets.   When bills are totaled we find those banks didnt even have the money to own these assets outright.  I agree these are ongoing themes but it doesnt make gold or the assets all a pump and dump scheme.
To outright call something as dump worthy is that it has no underlying worth.   The biggest thing right now is this money is provided falsely by government to big banks through their positions as primary dealers, they are involved in QE.   So they obtain cash and influence prices to the point of inaccuracy, bubbles - the conclusion to this is not that everything is worthless and false but that cash or the dollars provided are not correct.   The biggest flaw is currency itself, not that every asset is now false

Bitcoin trading has flaws ?  totally normal, the only thing really important is the central registry reflects those transactions so every participant has an equal opportunity to observe and compete

[BootstrapCoinDev]

one could also ask:
Is Bitcoin actually just a Pump and Dump?

Hehe, yes. It's just a whale play, because a payment system with this liquidity = complete rubbish. Say you want to transfer a 3million USD via bitcoin, buying/selling that small of a volume will destroy most exchanges.

[ninjaskip]

one could also ask:
Is Bitcoin actually just a Pump and Dump?

Hehe, yes. It's just a whale play, because a payment system with this liquidity = complete rubbish. Say you want to transfer a 3million USD via bitcoin, buying/selling that small of a volume will destroy most exchanges.

3 Million won't cause any harm this days i think.

[o0o0]

one could also ask:
Is Bitcoin actually just a Pump and Dump?

Hehe, yes. It's just a whale play, because a payment system with this liquidity = complete rubbish. Say you want to transfer a 3million USD via bitcoin, buying/selling that small of a volume will destroy most exchanges.

3 Million won't cause any harm this days i think.

30,000 coins @ 9 million USD total didn't cause any harm. Just a what was it 6 day feeding frenzy?