Was Bitcoin actually just a Pump and Dump?

[ninjaskip]

one could also ask:
Is Bitcoin actually just a Pump and Dump?

Hehe, yes. It's just a whale play, because a payment system with this liquidity = complete rubbish. Say you want to transfer a 3million USD via bitcoin, buying/selling that small of a volume will destroy most exchanges.

3 Million won't cause any harm this days i think.

30,000 coins @ 9 million USD total didn't cause any harm. Just a what was it 6 day feeding frenzy?

The volume to maintain the price is around 20million US/24hr, the volume to manipulate the price up and down is around 50million US/24hr.
Is funny that no one questions who is behind this manipulation.

[pattu1]

one could also ask:
Is Bitcoin actually just a Pump and Dump?

Hehe, yes. It's just a whale play, because a payment system with this liquidity = complete rubbish. Say you want to transfer a 3million USD via bitcoin, buying/selling that small of a volume will destroy most exchanges.

It will not destroy exchanges today. There might be some slippage, but that can be minimized by breaking up your trade.

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

what about the "they generate their own coins to dump alot" theory, could actually be scary that you could just make coins and nobody has a idea...anyone who knows more about the tech on btc should answer=)

Miners dumping coin for fiat en masse, if that is what you're asking, is a short term risk to bitcoin valuation, sure. The potential impact of such action is limiting over time as 1)the total sum of minted coins increase, 2)the block rewards halve, and ideally 3)adoption and demand grow, increasing volume and absorbing whatever miners are looking to dump.

what I don't understand is how it all started. noone would buy something that has no value (the first mined coins). so who bought the first coins? It might have started as a pump and dump, and once this caused a valorization it caused a chain reaction.

Who is to say the first mined coins didn't have value? With the exception of *intrinsic value, value itself is merely a belief, a subjectively defined, dynamic opinion with external conditions taken into consideration. Anyone that believed bitcoin had tremendous potential would naturally manifest a far greater value for a bitcoin than someone that didn't see a future for it.

Since obtaining bitcoin was relatively easy and cheap for the individuals that were aware of bitcoin in the earliest days, the actual monetary value was exceedingly low to nonexistent and lent little incentive for trading among miners, however, the first real attempt at pegging bitcoin to a usd valuation for the purpose of exchange was by new liberty standard that essentially calculated their costs in producing bitcoin. Their explanation here:

During 2009 my exchange rate was calculated by dividing $1.00 by the average amount of electricity required to run a computer with high CPU for a year, 1331.5 kWh, multiplied by the the average residential cost of electricity in the United States for the previous year, $0.1136, divided by 12 months divided by the number of bitcoins generated by my computer over the past 30 days.

*I define intrinsic value differently than most; namely, the necessities for life such as food, shelter, etc. Therefore, I do not include things such as gold, or products, or IP, etc.

Such a learned n00b. You catch on fast

[johnyj]

The volume to maintain the price is around 20million US/24hr, the volume to manipulate the price up and down is around 50million US/24hr.
Is funny that no one questions who is behind this manipulation.

Much less than that, most of the daily volume are generated by trading bots, a couple of thousand coin were net supplied and digested by the investors around the world. This makes the system very volatile short term wise

[johnyj]

Actually everthing is a pump and dump, including fiat money, house, gold, Iphone, religion or pretty girls, as long as you can find a person who are willing to pay a lot in exchange for it, then it is a successful pump and dump  

No I dont think thats the case, unless we talking blow up dolls then there is much more dynamics to the 'pretty girls' thing then just a false perception and let down/collapse in interest.  Obviously we know human interaction and attraction would relate to much more long term dynamics within the human race then 'pricing'.

At a raised level of abstraction, it is all about desire, it does not matter what kind of form it takes to satisfy a desire, the stronger the desire, the higher the valuation

[o0o0]

one could also ask:
Is Bitcoin actually just a Pump and Dump?

Hehe, yes. It's just a whale play, because a payment system with this liquidity = complete rubbish. Say you want to transfer a 3million USD via bitcoin, buying/selling that small of a volume will destroy most exchanges.

3 Million won't cause any harm this days i think.

30,000 coins @ 9 million USD total didn't cause any harm. Just a what was it 6 day feeding frenzy?

The volume to maintain the price is around 20million US/24hr, the volume to manipulate the price up and down is around 50million US/24hr.
Is funny that no one questions who is behind this manipulation.

Plenty question... i just don't think anybody knows who with proof.

[ninjaskip]

So we pretty much all agreed it is a pump and dump game.

[LFC_Bitcoin]

So we pretty much all agreed it is a pump and dump game.

If you don't have the patience or the common sense to HODL & look to the future then maybe yes.

If you want to get rich quick BTC is not the game for you.

[Coin_Master]

The answer is simple, people place subjective value on things for many reasons including "because it was tuesday".  People collect all sorts of things like stamps and old coins that have no direct monetary value today, who wants an old used stamp, well in some cases they are selling for a lot of money.  Try to stop thinking of things as televisions and mobile phones, sometimes even a flower can be sold for something.  Freedom is priceless

you simple anser doesn't convince me. stamps and old coins have a nostalgic value which can explain how they start to gain monetary value.

Good point, but why would we place value on something nostalgic?
Without getting too philosophical, the simple answer was really a reference to specific aspects of motivators in random chaos theory.

http://www.becauseitstuesday.com/
https://www.facebook.com/BecauseItsTuesday
"Random Acts of Kindness – Just Because It’s Tuesday"

Trying to understand "why" people do things, and why they choose to place subjective value on something, is an impossible task.  This is because people are random beings, and do random things.  Something can be given value "just because", and that is the answer.

Bitcoin represents "Freedom" of choice, and to some people that is attractive.  We tend to place value on things that are attractive.

Hope that clarifies my post

[e-coinomist]

No. If this was the case Satoshi would have dumped his coins and bought his own island by now. That's not to say he wont dump them in the future but there's always the risk.

So we are standing somewhere after the Pump but still before the Dump.

Smart people are allready selling before the last step happens.

[azguard]

Price is based on market demands.
Also i have noticed that when something is big in world politic price is influence on that event.
Maybe is me but i think that next time price change is next year maybe.

[bajlox]

So we are standing somewhere after the Pump but still before the Dump.

Smart people are allready selling before the last step happens.

Why sell now when u can buy maybe now and w8 for price goes up and then sell it.
I think that price is still low so it would be wise to buy not to sell.

[ninjaskip]

So we are standing somewhere after the Pump but still before the Dump.

Smart people are allready selling before the last step happens.

Why sell now when u can buy maybe now and w8 for price goes up and then sell it.
I think that price is still low so it would be wise to buy not to sell.

I think price will keep going down, will wait and see.

[Coin_Master]

So we are standing somewhere after the Pump but still before the Dump.

Smart people are allready selling before the last step happens.

Why sell now when u can buy maybe now and w8 for price goes up and then sell it.
I think that price is still low so it would be wise to buy not to sell.

I think price will keep going down, will wait and see.

What do you gain by saying that?  Are you trying to convince the people who aren't sure, to sell?
Are you wanting the price to go down?

Please go and get a job and forget about Bitcoin.  You won't be making any money from Bitcoin at this point, you missed the boat.

[PolyCoin-Team]

I am starting to believe that your mom was a pump and dump.

Yeah and I had your mother last night.

[ninjaskip]

So we are standing somewhere after the Pump but still before the Dump.

Smart people are allready selling before the last step happens.

Why sell now when u can buy maybe now and w8 for price goes up and then sell it.
I think that price is still low so it would be wise to buy not to sell.

I think price will keep going down, will wait and see.

What do you gain by saying that?  Are you trying to convince the people who aren't sure, to sell?
Are you wanting the price to go down?

Please go and get a job and forget about Bitcoin.  You won't be making any money from Bitcoin at this point, you missed the boat.

The train is long gone for everyone, who ever didn't dump @1000 Us dollar or around there is fucked.
 

[HotHamHock]

The train is long gone for everyone, who ever didn't dump @1000 Us dollar or around there is fucked.
 

We've heard this same rhetoric. We've seen this same bubble/correction. Bitcoin will either have an extraordinary global economic impact, or deflate into nothing. Paradigm shifts have the unique characteristic of wave adoption due to the direct challenge of the inherited fundamental model. So far in Bitcoin's history, the momentum of the wave hasn't shown any reason to believe it will suddenly stop.
https://i.imgur.com/iZLWqc0.png

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

The train is long gone for everyone, who ever didn't dump @1000 Us dollar or around there is fucked.
 

We've heard this same rhetoric. We've seen this same bubble/correction. Bitcoin will either have an extraordinary global economic impact, or deflate into nothing. Paradigm shifts have the unique characteristic of wave adoption due to the direct challenge of the inherited fundamental model. So far in Bitcoin's history, the momentum of the wave hasn't shown any reason to believe it will suddenly stop.

+1

[azguard]

Seem like this price is just that.
Just some pumping and dumping price is roughly around 400 for some time.

Dont see any mark that price will go up for some reason.

[bajlox]

So we are standing somewhere after the Pump but still before the Dump.

Smart people are allready selling before the last step happens.

Why sell now when u can buy maybe now and w8 for price goes up and then sell it.
I think that price is still low so it would be wise to buy not to sell.

I think price will keep going down, will wait and see.

What do you gain by saying that?  Are you trying to convince the people who aren't sure, to sell?
Are you wanting the price to go down?

Please go and get a job and forget about Bitcoin.  You won't be making any money from Bitcoin at this point, you missed the boat.

NO.
For me price is low so i will not sell maybe i will buy more and wait for some price change or hold it for next big change in price.

But in boot cases it only your or mine opinion some will hold others will sell.