Japan is new China?

[Newar]

No one is going to buy bitcoins then spend them to buy things expect for those using silkroad2 to deal with drugs and other illegal stuff, the whole year market situation has already proved this a hundred times
[...]

You are mistaken. Many do, including myself. It's referred to as "horizontal spending". And no, no illegal stuff either.

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[Cluster2k]

Today was a very important day in Japan.  The Bank of Japan showed it is willing to do absolutely anything to stoke inflation and print money to pay debt.  If the average Japanese citizen is paying attention they should be looking to get out of any commodity or asset stored locally and denominated in yen.

A quarter of the country is over 65 right now.  In 2050 it will be around half.  It's literally a dying nation that will continue to punish anyone under 65 who is silly enough to throw their life away working 12 hours a day.  I don't know if bitcoin is the answer as it's extremely volatile, but surely it should be part of the mix for the proverbial Ms Watanabe.

[toknormal]

I'm surprised no-one had cited the single biggest, in your face, elephant in the room reason that Bitcoin might take off in Japan.

In 2009 there were around 80 Trillion Yen in existence in the whole wide world.

The bank of Japan have just announced that they're now going to be printing that amount EVERY YEAR. So they're going to squirting the ENTIRE 2009 Yen monetary base into the financial system every ** year **.

Never mind arguments about Bitcoin vs Gold - by comparison with the Yen, Bitcoin IS gold and a whole lot more attractive because you can actually buy stuff with it (unless you want to turn up at Amazon's clearing centre with a scraping off the gold bar you stashed under your floorboards).

We are seeing the start of hyperinflation - that's why Nikkei stocks skyrocketed by nearly 5% today. Those companies didn't just suddenly increase their output or profitability by 5%, it's cash running for cover. This is an exponential game. Think russian dolls - the interest on the debt creates a new "doll" around the previous one but the smaller doll represents all the money supply in the world to date so there's no way to cover service the interest represented by the new, bigger doll. Only 2 options:

 - inflate
 - default

[Capt Drake]

I'm surprised no-one had cited the single biggest, in your face, elephant in the room reason that Bitcoin might take off in Japan.

What I understood is that they were already doing that but now it will be stronger.
Therefore, the japs have further reasons to invest in metal commodities and bitcoin.

http://www.boj.or.jp/en/announcements/release_2014/k141031a.pdf

[toknormal]

What I understood is that they were already doing that but now it will be stronger.

Yes. That is indeed the case.

[Nagle]

The difference is that the Chinese distrust their government and are looking to get money out of China. They also have a huge network of people outside China, that can receive that money. Neither is true for Japan.

Not quite. The difference is that China has exchange controls. Converting yuan to dollars or euros is hard. That's what drove the Bitcoin bubble in China - it was a way to convert yuan to Bitcoins to dollars.

Japan has no exchange controls. Any major bank will convert yen to dollars or euros.  Today's rate is 112.30 yen/dollar.

[Newar]

I'm surprised no-one had cited the single biggest, in your face, elephant in the room reason that Bitcoin might take off in Japan.
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By that token, Japan's debt is through the roof for several years already. Have they fled to gold? Did they stockpile food and supplies in major amounts per household? No.

So, I don't think this will change anything. Look at Cyprus, Argentina, Greece - you name them. How high is bitcoin adoption there? Is it "huge"?

The difference is that the Chinese distrust their government and are looking to get money out of China. They also have a huge network of people outside China, that can receive that money. Neither is true for Japan.

Not quite. The difference is that China has exchange controls. Converting yuan to dollars or euros is hard. That's what drove the Bitcoin bubble in China - it was a way to convert yuan to Bitcoins to dollars.

Japan has no exchange controls. Any major bank will convert yen to dollars or euros.  Today's rate is 112.30 yen/dollar.

Thank you for making my point. Again.

[inca]

By that token, Japan's debt is through the roof for several years already. Have they fled to gold? Did they stockpile food and supplies in major amounts per household? No.

So, I don't think this will change anything. Look at Cyprus, Argentina, Greece - you name them. How high is bitcoin adoption there? Is it "huge"?

Bitcoin is unknown in most of the world - for now.

It is pretty obvious there will be a flight of yen for other assets at some stage. These things have a habit of happening all of a sudden. Gold is a poor example of a commodity to invest in as the paper traded price bears no relation whatsoever to actual supply and demand in the real world. Bitcoin on the other hand...

[BootstrapCoinDev]

The main factor driving the bitcoin bubble is not quite speculation, but manipulation and money laundering. In Japan, there are more than 700 thousands chinese folks. If Bitcoin is credible among the majority of Asian collaborators, it may be attractive for japanese in their daily property transactions.

[finlon]

The Bank of Japan just announced QE. Yet another reason for the existence of Bitcoin.

Huge adoption on November in Japan:

1. Kraken Launches in Japan
2. GMO-PG Enables 48000 Merchants Using Bitcoin as Payment Option
3. BitFlyer Rises $236000
4. Rakuten Accepts Bitcoin

After reading this post from wall observer, I've got an idea: The 2013 bubble was because of China (and Willy  ). What if 2015 bubble, next point of growth will be not Wall Street and not China again, but Japan?

Japan, just like China, has a lot of people with a lot of money they have nowhere to invest. Bank interest rates are around zero, economy in stagnation, entrance to business is controlled by big guys. So bitcoin is the solution a lot of Japanese are looking for. Is Japan the new China?

Japan is already the new china in terms of bitcoin adoption. I was in Japan 2 months back , and almost everyone knows about bitcoins. However, there hasn't been a mass adoption for the shops to accept it yet. But bitcoin craze is already there.

[Newar]

Japan is already the new china in terms of bitcoin adoption. I was in Japan 2 months back , and almost everyone knows about bitcoins. However, there hasn't been a mass adoption for the shops to accept it yet. But bitcoin craze is already there.

Oh, really? Who did you talk to? What is their background? How many coins did each person you talked to hold? How much JPY do they plan to invest in it? Sure they "know" about it or have heard of it - MtGox and Teramoto-san took care of that.

I really would like to see some hard proof of the claims stated in this thread. I will give you some against in the meanwhile:

BtcBox is currently the biggest exchange of the ones that publish their numbers. They have a daily volume of 200 coins. Bitstamp does 12'000 (the whole Chinese 0 fee model makes for an obvious bot show).

There was an bitcoin ATM in a restaurant in Shibuya. It has been removed. Talking to some business owners that accept BTC, sales in BTC are not exactly stellar.

A quick look at coinmap.org shows the number of places that accept BTC is indeed growing, but not exactly at a spectacular pace. I think we had 35 in spring and we're at 43 now. But then the places that accept BTC didn't neither grow exponentially in China during the "China" bubble.

The majority of "for" arguments brought forward in this thread have been in place last year already. So why did it not happen last year already? Why would it happen this year?

[Honeypot]

Just a hint.

China did not drive the last pump. It was hype and mt.gox.

China is much bigger than japan by orders of magnitude, both in economy and strength of character.

[inca]

Just a hint.

China did not drive the last pump. It was hype and mt.gox.

China is much bigger than japan by orders of magnitude, both in economy and strength of character.

Amazing that both your hints are actually plain wrong.

[Honeypot]

Just a hint.

China did not drive the last pump. It was hype and mt.gox.

China is much bigger than japan by orders of magnitude, both in economy and strength of character.

Amazing that both your hints are actually plain wrong.

I am sure you have a wealth of personal experience and insight on both

[inca]

Just a hint.

China did not drive the last pump. It was hype and mt.gox.

China is much bigger than japan by orders of magnitude, both in economy and strength of character.

Amazing that both your hints are actually plain wrong.

I am sure you have a wealth of personal experience and insight on both

Well you can fact check the first by looking at the charts and corresponding volume from that time period. Do you really need someone to tell you that China's economy is not orders of magnitude larger than Japan's?

[God27]

Japan has been one of the largest buyers of btc on ripple.

[HWoodrow]

When I was in Japan in august, I asked at much people if they knows something about bitcoin, and much people told me no. So, I think that China is new Japan, and not Japan is new China, because China has more knowledge about bitcoin.

[DustyRah]

The Bank of Japan just announced QE. Yet another reason for the existence of Bitcoin.

Huge adoption on November in Japan:

1. Kraken Launches in Japan
2. GMO-PG Enables 48000 Merchants Using Bitcoin as Payment Option
3. BitFlyer Rises $236000
4. Rakuten Accepts Bitcoin

After reading this post from wall observer, I've got an idea: The 2013 bubble was because of China (and Willy  ). What if 2015 bubble, next point of growth will be not Wall Street and not China again, but Japan?

Japan, just like China, has a lot of people with a lot of money they have nowhere to invest. Bank interest rates are around zero, economy in stagnation, entrance to business is controlled by big guys. So bitcoin is the solution a lot of Japanese are looking for. Is Japan the new China?

Japanese unlike Chinese can simply invest into the world market including NYSE and Nasdaq. They don't face restrictions like the Chinese do. Also, the Japanese are not rolling in cash like you claim.

Less money will flow into Bitcoin as the economy does well since people will feel confident to invest in stocks and businesses. Both gold and Bitcoin will see lower flow of cash. That said it takes just one upswing and a barrage of investors will get on board Bitcoin taking it to new levels.

[Honeypot]

Just a hint.

China did not drive the last pump. It was hype and mt.gox.

China is much bigger than japan by orders of magnitude, both in economy and strength of character.

Amazing that both your hints are actually plain wrong.

I am sure you have a wealth of personal experience and insight on both

Well you can fact check the first by looking at the charts and corresponding volume from that time period. Do you really need someone to tell you that China's economy is not orders of magnitude larger than Japan's?

Now that was quite weak