Compared to Bitcoin, gold doesn't seem real...

[Ruthful]

That's why you use layers. Drugs cause states of consciousness that make difficult sequences hard to recall. Keys can be made to trigger alarms that alert trusted assets that can trap or track adversaries to reveal their positions for law enforcement or other forms of justice.

Again ,not unique to bitcoin .The fiat based system have been doing these for ages. Financial services notifying law enforcement when they notice suspicious transaction  is one of the more basic form of this.

[cbeast]

The rich and powerful usually resort to violence to achieve their ends.

Not entire true.Many of them got them by their talents(hardwork,their brains, ability to forge social connections etc) or luck,its usually the combination of those.Not all of them are despicable people ,you know.

History has taught us that those without the means to achieve thing without violence are more like to do so than those with the means(rich and powerful).There are  good reason why violent crimes and social strife are more prevalent in poorer communities rather than affluent ones .

 Bitcoin makes it trustless and non-violent to level the playing field.

It' hard to say that with a straight face when the playing field wasn't even violent in first place.

 it will need to be earned through honesty and empathy.

The prevalence of scams and frauds involving bitcoin pretty much invalidates this statement altogether.You don't even need to leave this forum go to scam promoting ones to find them, they'r all here where we at.

I suppose drug cartels use Hallmark cards and candy to maintain their wealth and power. I never said that all of them do so. I can't even.

That's why you use layers. Drugs cause states of consciousness that make difficult sequences hard to recall. Keys can be made to trigger alarms that alert trusted assets that can trap or track adversaries to reveal their positions for law enforcement or other forms of justice.

Again ,not unique to bitcoin .The fiat based system have been doing these for ages. Financial services notifying law enforcement when they notice suspicious transaction  is one of the more basic form of this.

In theory, but it doesn't work in the internet age. Credit card fraud, bank hackers, ATM fraud, counterfeiting, etc. and taxpayers end up paying for them. Bitcoin makes all of those things impossible. The only major frauds that occur in Bitcoin are confidence games. They usually appeal to a person's greed and their isn't much anyone can do about someone willing to give their money away.

[Ruthful]

I suppose drug cartels use Hallmark cards and candy to maintain their wealth and power.

Ironically,some drug cartel do indeed gave candies to children in their area of power on some occasions.They use the carrot and stick method to maintain control, everybody knows that.Or  do you mean how they pay for it?By any means available to them :money, goods, favours,coercion etc .They would readily use bitcoin like any other asset that they have access to .

I never said that all of them do so. I can't even.

Then perhaps you should stop using overly generalising statement such as

The rich and powerful usually resort to violence to achieve their ends.

Which is pretty  much false.

In theory, but it doesn't work in the internet age. Credit card fraud, bank hackers, ATM fraud, counterfeiting, etc. and taxpayers end up paying for them. Bitcoin makes all of those things impossible. The only major frauds that occur in Bitcoin are confidence games. They usually appeal to a person's greed and their isn't much anyone can do about someone willing to give their money away.

Are we still talking about how bitcoin isn't really more immune to torture and coercion than other value retainers or are you replying to my rebuttal of the the " could only be earned through honesty and empathy" thing.

[cbeast]

Are we still talking about how bitcoin isn't really more immune to torture and coercion than other value retainers or are you replying to my rebuttal of the the " could only be earned through honesty and empathy" thing.

I answered both. There's the rub. I'm saying Bitcoin *can* be immune to all known forms of torture. The tools are there, people just need to learn how to use them. Of course there will always be the option of nLockTime transactions that secure them so even having the keys won't unlock them until a specific time. The adversary would just have to wait. It will probably be a good idea for everyone to do this at some point. I'm also saying that bitcoins can't be stolen if properly secured. You're reading too much into honesty and empathy retort. Bitcoin will make fraud much less possible. "Fences make good neighbors."

[cbeast]

Ironically,some drug cartel do indeed gave candies to children in their area of power on some occasions.They use the carrot and stick method to maintain control, everybody knows that.Or  do you mean how they pay for it?By any means available to them :money, goods, favours,coercion etc .They would readily use bitcoin like any other asset that they have access to .

This deserves its own reply. Some drug cartels employ people, build schools and road, etc. BECAUSE LAW ENFORCEMENT IS TOO AFRAID OR UNABLE TO STOP THEM!!! They are then able to win the peasants over through greed and the threat of violence.

If drug cartels were forced to use bitcoin, well first of all, they tend to be pretty stupid thugs. They would be easy pickings for cybercrime enforcement to lockdown in most cases. I can't even.

[Ruthful]

I answered both. There's the rub. I'm saying Bitcoin *can* be immune to all known forms of torture. The tools are there, people just need to learn how to use them. Of course there will always be the option of nLockTime transactions that secure them so even having the keys won't unlock them until a specific time. The adversary would just have to wait. It will probably be a good idea for everyone to do this at some point. I'm also saying that bitcoins can't be stolen if properly secured. You're reading too much into honesty and empathy retort. Bitcoin will make fraud much less possible. "Fences make good neighbors."

Your rub fail.This is why combining  two completely incongruous  argument chains  is considered bad form of debating .


1)Bitcoin is as immune to torture as  any other forms of value storing method.It doesn't matter if it's vault key, stronghold access, bank pin number of bitcoin private key.Your method of stopping them from gaining access to your wealth is also applicable to my other examples.There is nothing unique to bitcoin in this regard.Protecting your asset at the cost life isn't a new concept.


2)You not need to be honest or emphatic to earn bitcoin. Scumbags will be scumbags.They'll migrate wherever there's gain to be made.The thing that will protect your bitcoin is the exact same thing that protects your other assets:due diligence.After all ,fences do pre-date bitcoin.

[Ruthful]

This deserves its own reply. Some drug cartels employ people, build schools and road, etc. BECAUSE LAW ENFORCEMENT IS TOO AFRAID OR UNABLE TO STOP THEM!!! They are then able to win the peasants over through greed and the threat of violence.

This is another irrelevant point that'll derail this thread even more(than we already are).What this about?The need to maintain a strong central authority and good economic progression to stem  the foothold of violent crime organisation?I'm not biting( no matter scrumptious it may seems) .

If drug cartels were forced to use bitcoin, well first of all, they tend to be pretty stupid thugs. They would be easy pickings for cybercrime enforcement to lockdown in most cases.

Strange, did you not advocate that proper use of bitcoin could shield  the user from government oversight?I'm sure the crime lord would be smart enough to take such advice to heart.Besides if they're powerful enough to take and hold territories from the government their IT department would be similarly up to the task.

I can't even.

 Yes we established that already.

[cbeast]

I answered both. There's the rub. I'm saying Bitcoin *can* be immune to all known forms of torture. The tools are there, people just need to learn how to use them. Of course there will always be the option of nLockTime transactions that secure them so even having the keys won't unlock them until a specific time. The adversary would just have to wait. It will probably be a good idea for everyone to do this at some point. I'm also saying that bitcoins can't be stolen if properly secured. You're reading too much into honesty and empathy retort. Bitcoin will make fraud much less possible. "Fences make good neighbors."

Your rub fail.This is why combining  two completely incongruous  argument chains  is considered bad form of debating .


1)Bitcoin is as immune to torture as  any other forms of value storing method.It doesn't matter if it's vault key, stronghold access, bank pin number of bitcoin private.Your method of stopping them from gaining access to your wealth is also applicable to my other examples.There is nothing unique to bitcoin in this regard.Protecting your asset at the cost life isn't a new concept.


2)You not need to honest or emphatic to earn bitcoin. Scumbags will be scumbags.They'll migrate wherever there's gain to be made.The thing that will protect your bitcoin is the exact same thing that protects your other assets:due diligence.After all fences do pre-date bitcoin.

I disagree on both points for the same reason. Bitcoin doesn't rely on only simple keys. I'm sorry you don't understand. Try reading up on Bitcoin's features instead of repeating the same misunderstanding. FYI, using quotes means the statement is a quote and probably shouldn't be taken literally.
You keep saying things are not new, but I never claimed they were. You fail to make a point. Saying that being a scumbag is a way to earn anything won't help your case with anyone. In fact you haven't even made a relevant point let alone refuted mine.

[Ruthful]

I disagree on both points for the same reason. Bitcoin doesn't rely on only simple keys. I'm sorry you don't understand. Try reading up on Bitcoin's features instead of repeating the same misunderstanding.

What misunderstanding is that?That you can't torture someone to reveal their private key. The're no misunderstanding here.That statement is just not true.What you should have said that there are ways to make it harder(or even impossible) for some one to gain access to your bitcoin through implement of torture and coercion( which existed for other assets such as cash or gold long before bitcoin's existence).

FYI, using quotes means the statement is a quote and probably shouldn't be taken literally.

Perhaps it would be better to construct your statement (or give a thought or two about them ) before typing them.

You keep saying things are not new, but I never claimed they were.

Good .so you accept that those "anti-torture"security feature aren't unique to bitcoin
 

Saying that being a scumbag is a way to earn anything won't help your case with anyone.

What case is that?I believe everyone here agree that people who swindle others for self gain are scumbags.Hell. we'll applaud when these bastards got their just desserts.
Stating the truth doesn't mean I condone their act.Calling them scumbags  should tip you of to this .Are you implying that I should mince my words when addressing those dregs?

You fail to make a point.In fact you haven't even made a relevant point let alone refuted mine.

During the course of our interaction I've refuted your half baked ideas that:

1)Gold is easier  to destroy than bitcoin

2)bitcoin is immune to torture.

3)You need to be honest/emphatic to earn bitcoin.


You seems to have trouble understanding my arguments.I suggest rereading them before spewing any other poorly structured counterpoint(or inserting derail attempts)and rethink/recheck your statements before posting them, lest you want to spread misinformation(I'm sure you don't meant to) about bitcoin.

[NotAtOld]

The power of tradition is such that people will hold on to their gold for long -
no matter how unsafe ir is and how much trouble it is to store and protect.

[cbeast]

I disagree on both points for the same reason. Bitcoin doesn't rely on only simple keys. I'm sorry you don't understand. Try reading up on Bitcoin's features instead of repeating the same misunderstanding.

What misunderstanding is that?That you can't torture someone to reveal their private key. The're no misunderstanding here.That statement is just not true.What you should have said that there are ways to make it harder(or even impossible) for some one to gain access to your bitcoin through implement of torture and coercion( which existed for other assets such as cash or gold long before bitcoin's existence).

FYI, using quotes means the statement is a quote and probably shouldn't be taken literally.

Perhaps it would be better to construct your statement (or give a thought or two about them ) before typing them.

You keep saying things are not new, but I never claimed they were.

Good .so you accept that those "anti-torture"security feature aren't unique to bitcoin
 

Saying that being a scumbag is a way to earn anything won't help your case with anyone.

What case is that?I believe everyone here agree that people who swindle others for self gain are scumbags.Hell. we'll applaud when these bastards got their just desserts.
Stating the truth doesn't mean I condone their act.Calling them scumbags  should tip you of to this .Are you implying that I should mince my words when addressing those dregs?

You fail to make a point.In fact you haven't even made a relevant point let alone refuted mine.

During the course of our interaction I've refuted your half baked ideas that:

1)Gold is easier  to destroy than bitcoin

2)bitcoin is immune to torture.

3)You need to be honest/emphatic to earn bitcoin.


You seems to have trouble understanding my arguments.I suggest rereading them before spewing any other poorly structured counterpoint(or inserting derail attempts)and rethink/recheck your statements before posting them, lest you want to spread misinformation(I'm sure you don't meant to) about bitcoin.

Again you are ignoring my arguments. I've perused your post history and find nothing worthwhile in contributions. I don't consider you a troll but your changing goalposts are annoying. Still I will entertain your focus on minutiae and side tracking from my phone.

1)Gold is easier  to destroy than bitcoin
I don't mean destroy in the sense of converting to pure energy. I mean rendered useless. Dump your aqua regarding into the Mariannes Trench. Gone.
Burn my bitcoin paper wallet. I have a thousand backups. Not gone.
2)bitcoin is immune to torture.
I don't have nor control my bitcoins and nobody else knowingly does either because encryption and SSS. Banks can't do that because it's not legal for banks to do with other people's money. If you torture me I will give you a decoy or two but know that you will kill me anyway so you can just suck it. If you claim mind reading powers then I won't believe you.

3)You need to be honest/emphatic to earn bitcoin.
Yeah that's a big one. I am too smart to be scammed by you (hypothetically ). If you want my money you need to kiss my ass and tell me I look fit. If you are a scumbag then you will deal with my scumbag associates.

[countryfree]

The rich and powerful usually resort to violence to achieve their ends.

Bill Gates and Warren Buffet were the two richest men in America last time I looked, and they're not street-fighters.

[cbeast]

The rich and powerful usually resort to violence to achieve their ends.

Bill Gates and Warren Buffet were the two richest men in America last time I looked, and they're not street-fighters.

Neither has real power. Note the word "and."

[Flashman]

IMO, Bill was outside the club and refused to play. Ergo, why he's doing all his own initiatives in Africa etc, rather than anything else.

[jyakulis]

whatever, you can't eat bitcoins!

[jyakulis]

It would be nice to have a crypto tied to a set amount of a commodity. But how is it regulated? Who is the holder of the resources? What is the starting set value? There's too many questions. On top of that let's say you chose gold and started at 100 tons of gold. You still have people mining gold and you still have other holders of gold. What then sets the value of the currency. There's too many questions to a commodity backed cryptocurrency yet I've seen those ideas tossed around.

The only thing I think that could work is if all coins were already mined and you essentially used the blockchain technology to provide for the currency exchange aspect of the commodity currency. But then what is the incentive for mining hardware and what's securing the currency if there is not plenty of mining or hashing power?

[Meuh6879]

Sure you can keep it in a vault, but then you can't spend it.

That why, in december 2013, i have choice bitcoin.
mother fucker tax on gold reseller ... too.

[steeveGrube]

whatever, you can't eat bitcoins!

why no?

 

[TaunSew]

The rich and powerful usually resort to violence to achieve their ends.

Bill Gates and Warren Buffet were the two richest men in America last time I looked, and they're not street-fighters.

Neither has real power. Note the word "and."

The true wealthy isn't those with a publicly large net worth.  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_banking_system

The shadow banking empires have more wealth than all the physical assets on this planet.  This is possible when money has become digitized IOUs and banks have free reign in engaging in fractional reserve lending.

[Flashman]

However, will they be looking for another vehicle to throw around 100 Trillion a year? Since regulation is looming, and Carney is on their arse, and he's a fucking honey-badger.