[brainstorming] p2p gambling, no house edge?

[finkleshnorts]

This thought crossed my mind:

Similar to the idea of the decentralized exchange that has been tossed around, what if there were a p2p gambling network built on open source software, with games similar to satoshi dice?

For instance, one person places an "order" for a 50% chance to double my money, then somebody else takes the other side with the same amount. The network holds the bitcoins from both parties in escrow, and then the network confirms the result. What they would actually be doing is picking one side or the other on a randomly generated number (i don't know, something open source and consistent).

It might not even have to be a p2p protocol, maybe just an ad-supported website could do it and set it up like an currency exchange site.Surely, if bitcoin bypasses (nearly) all fees for transactions, there must also be a way to bypass (nearly) all fees for gambling.

Just an idea.

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[mem]

careful bob, with that dangerously good idea some casino tycoon may put a hit out on you

[lightlord]

This thought crossed my mind:

Similar to the idea of the decentralized exchange that has been tossed around, what if there were a p2p gambling network built on open source software, with games similar to satoshi dice?

For instance, one person places an "order" for a 50% chance to double my money, then somebody else takes the other side with the same amount. The network holds the bitcoins from both parties in escrow, and then the network confirms the result. What they would actually be doing is picking one side or the other on a randomly generated number (i don't know, something open source and consistent).

It might not even have to be a p2p protocol, maybe just an ad-supported website could do it and set it up like an currency exchange site.Surely, if bitcoin bypasses (nearly) all fees for transactions, there must also be a way to bypass (nearly) all fees for gambling.

Just an idea.

That's an interesting idea, I would certainly like that. If a p2p pool mining can exist,
surely this can exist as well.

Interesting.

[CIYAM]

Perhaps some sort of special script op code could be used to determine that a tx output is only valid if say the subsequent nth block number's hash's high bits are equal to a value (with both an AND mask and a value).

The protocol would need to be changed to handle this special script output and it should probably not be valid until the block height is equal to the checked block height + x blocks (to avoid confusion with re-orgs).

It really isn't much different to the time delay feature - just would need a couple of extra numbers:

Code:

int64_t high_bits = get_high_bits_from_block_hash( ); // nothing special needed for this
...
if( tx_output.check_high_bits ) // tx would need these two new values
   is_valid = ( ( high_bits & tx_output.check_high_bits ) == tx.high_bits_value );

Actually I guess it might even be simpler to just use the "nonce" rather than part of the hash.

[RantinRave]

Great idea, if you are looking for somebody to actually put this plan in action. I'm down for heading up the project.

[giantdragon]

Awesome idea! I have started development of the P2P gambling site yesterday, stay tuned!

[finkleshnorts]

Wow, that's really cool.

[Yuhfhrh]

Makes sense to me lol

[FreeMoney]

The biggest Fish is a little bit like this. By leaving money in a fish you are offering to take wagers with odds from 50-100% in your favor for anywhere from 0.05 up to half your balance. It is more optimized for fun that flexibility so another project is needed imo, just pointing the game out.

[lightlord]

Awesome idea! I have started development of the P2P gambling site yesterday, stay tuned!

Wow really?

Look at my post: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=127836
And start developing that as well! Well its an idea.

Best regards
Lightlord

[giantdragon]

Wow really?

Yes, I am developing this site now. Architecture is ready, this game being designed to be provably fair with absolutely no chance to cheat for the operator and zero commission fees.

[finkleshnorts]

I can't wait to see what it looks like. I'm not a gambler (satoshidice and sealswithclubs taught me well), but I may have to give this a few spins.

[lightlord]

cool, I guess it would go.

I place a bet of 0.01 BTC, and it would pop up a bet on the board.
When someone matches my bet of 0.01 BTC.

One board would black out, lose, other person gets 0.02 BTC
effectively making it a 100% money back, or 50% 2.0X true odds.
And no house percentage!

For higher odds, like 90%. I place a bet of 1 Bitcoin.
And 9 other people join me.

9 people would get 1.1 Bitcoins, and one person would get 0 bitcoins.
Which would make it a Superior odds to satoshdice
from 98.1%>100%

For cutting transactions, you can make it that once 10 game bets
have been made, it goes through at a fee of 0.00005 instead of 0.0005.
cutting it by 1/10th.

I can't wait to see this implication, or this design 

[giantdragon]

cool, I guess it would go.

I place a bet of 0.01 BTC, and it would pop up a bet on the board.
When someone matches my bet of 0.01 BTC.

One board would black out, lose, other person gets 0.02 BTC
effectively making it a 100% money back, or 50% 2.0X true odds.
And no house percentage!

For higher odds, like 90%. I place a bet of 1 Bitcoin.
And 9 other people join me.

9 people would get 1.1 Bitcoins, and one person would get 0 bitcoins.
Which would make it a Superior odds to satoshdice
from 98.1%>100%

For cutting transactions, you can make it that once 10 game bets
have been made, it goes through at a fee of 0.00005 instead of 0.0005.
cutting it by 1/10th.

I can't wait to see this implication, or this design 

I am developing the same way as you described + fairness verification. Will launch next week.

[byronbb]

I have imagined p2p gambling and I think one day people will be able to gamble at near 0% loss. Imagine a poker app that uses the network to move funds from the pot to the winning players address/stack. The bitcoin network is a means to transfer value electronically. It should be thought of as backbone to anything you want to lay on top of it which involves the transfer of value. I came up with a sportsbook that works this way. I made up a mockup a while back as a concept.

[lightlord]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=129608

Refers to this post.

[finkleshnorts]

Giantdragon's site is up: peerbet.org

Check it out, it looks very promising.