Mt.Gox AML/KYC Process Explained

[Bitcoin Oz]

Mt Gox needs to use a third party for AML/KYC rather than do it themselves. There is too much incentive for them to simply claim documents are fake and block account holders because there is no transparency at all .

Its like putting the banks in charge of their own regulations through the SEC which caused the GFC !

From my personal experience with them, I think they send the funds to a "court". They do not get to keep the funds (assuming you file counter charges against Mt. Gox).

Im more worried about my personal ID being on a site thats a honeypot for hackers....considering mt gox has been hacked in the past its not a risk I want to take. Did someone mention identity theft ?

im my opinion, because they have been hacked, you have a reason to trust them: they have failed and learned, and they are therefor more secure now then before.

just like bitcoinica

exactly

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[jgarzik]

Agreed -- thanks for being open, and explaining these rules in a public forum.

Just imagine HSBC or Bank of America being willing to do the same, and you'll see how different the bitcoin community really is.

[Inaba]

Mt Gox needs to use a third party for AML/KYC rather than do it themselves. There is too much incentive for them to simply claim documents are fake and block account holders because there is no transparency at all .

Its like putting the banks in charge of their own regulations through the SEC which caused the GFC !

MtGox doesn't need to do anything because it's regulated by it's customers (i.e. the free market). Just watch how fast they'll fall if they are stupid enough to start operating in bad faith.

They already are operating in bad faith.  They are not informing their customers that they do not have the fiat funds to cover withdrawals over a few thousand dollars.  There are a number of us at the moment with $10,000+ withdrawals being held indefinitely without any explanation, but if we make smaller withdrawals those go through. In my case, I've had zero problems with withdrawals in the past and I have been a verified member for quite some time.  Haven't changed any account information, etc...

[hazek]

If that's the case I have no doubt in my mind that their clientele will shrink accordingly.

[terrytibbs]

If that's the case I have no doubt in my mind that their clientele will shrink accordingly.

It already is. Why did you think they were so aggressively launching new features, issuing press releases, and posting about transparency on the forums?


^{Source: http://bitcoinmagazine.net/growing-decentralization-in-the-bitcoin-economy/}

[hazek]

If that's the case I have no doubt in my mind that their clientele will shrink accordingly.

It already is. Why did you think they were so aggressively launching new features, issuing press releases, and posting about transparency on the forums?

Bingo. Don't you just love a market regulated strictly by market consumers i.e. the free market?

[nandika]

a bit off topic but regarding mtgox & it's support

I had a withdrawal to okpay, which is not processed. status shows error:
2012/06/04 21:36:42   Withdraw   Status: error   $262.35000   $0.00239
Withdraw to account okpay

Money not refunded to my mtgox account, neither sent to okpay.

Before and even AFTER this withdrawal I have successfully completed withdrawals to okpay.

I'm unable to contact mtgox, tried to send a support ticket, but browser shown a red frame without an error message.

Please let me know who can help.

login: nandika

[cypherdoc]

Ok, so far the not-so-much news about what you state why and what for you need all that info on users.

Now I am much more interested what flags the KYC on users, which freezes their account and funds until they comply? I refuse to comply to your KYC policy. What is the max amount of combined funds I may have? What kind of "suspicious transfers" (?!?) will flag me?

Being able to calculate the risk on MtGox would be a plus, and may keep me from going to another exchange like Intersango.

Ente

actually this is a great suggestion. 

mtgox could make up for the increased scrutiny by educating us customers about all the subtle monetary transactions or moves that might trigger an audit by the authorities. 

this could go a long way to proving that gox is really on our side, not the gubmints.

[galambo]

actually this is a great suggestion.  

mtgox could make up for the increased scrutiny by educating us customers about all the subtle monetary transactions or moves that might trigger an audit by the authorities.  

this could go a long way to proving that gox is really on our side, not the gubmints.

Your idea is for Mt.Gox to structure customer's payments so that it does not attract the attention of the authorities. Great idea. I see why you do not run Mt.Gox.

[Bitcoin Oz]

actually this is a great suggestion.  

mtgox could make up for the increased scrutiny by educating us customers about all the subtle monetary transactions or moves that might trigger an audit by the authorities.  

this could go a long way to proving that gox is really on our side, not the gubmints.

Your idea is for Mt.Gox to structure customer's payments so that it does not attract the attention of the authorities. Great idea. I see why you do not run Mt.Gox.

I think its already happening.You can easily avoid mt gox altogether because other market participants are stepping up and offering what mt gox cant. For instance Tangible Cryptography has a new service of buying your coins for paypal,dwolla and other methods.

[cypherdoc]

actually this is a great suggestion.  

mtgox could make up for the increased scrutiny by educating us customers about all the subtle monetary transactions or moves that might trigger an audit by the authorities.  

this could go a long way to proving that gox is really on our side, not the gubmints.

Your idea is for Mt.Gox to structure customer's payments so that it does not attract the attention of the authorities. Great idea. I see why you do not run Mt.Gox.

not at all.  educate customers so they can structure their own tx's so as not to attract attention.

my own local bank has helped me in this matter.

[galambo]

actually this is a great suggestion.  

mtgox could make up for the increased scrutiny by educating us customers about all the subtle monetary transactions or moves that might trigger an audit by the authorities.  

this could go a long way to proving that gox is really on our side, not the gubmints.

Your idea is for Mt.Gox to structure customer's payments so that it does not attract the attention of the authorities. Great idea. I see why you do not run Mt.Gox.

not at all.  educate customers so they can structure their own tx's so as not to attract attention.

my own local bank has helped me in this matter.

quoting this

[justusranvier]

not at all.  educate customers so they can structure their own tx's so as not to attract attention.

In some jurisdictions that is highly illegal.

[repentance]

Ok, so far the not-so-much news about what you state why and what for you need all that info on users.

Now I am much more interested what flags the KYC on users, which freezes their account and funds until they comply? I refuse to comply to your KYC policy. What is the max amount of combined funds I may have? What kind of "suspicious transfers" (?!?) will flag me?

Being able to calculate the risk on MtGox would be a plus, and may keep me from going to another exchange like Intersango.

Ente

actually this is a great suggestion. 

mtgox could make up for the increased scrutiny by educating us customers about all the subtle monetary transactions or moves that might trigger an audit by the authorities. 

this could go a long way to proving that gox is really on our side, not the gubmints.

A great deal of this information is publicly available on the websites of FinCEN and other AML/CTF regulators.  Because it's such a complex area, there are even flow charts, Power Point presentations, and newsletters highlighting current trends.  There are also a great many summaries of cases which have been prosecuted using FinCEN data.

[galambo]

In some jurisdictions that is highly illegal.

You don't have to qualify that statement by saying "some" jurisdictions.

[justusranvier]

You don't have to qualify that statement by saying "some" jurisdictions.

Since I don't know the laws of every country in the world I refrained from making a statement that claimed more knowledge than I possess. It's highly illegal in at least one jurisdiction.

[Bitcoin Oz]

In some jurisdictions that is highly illegal.

You don't have to qualify that statement by saying "some" jurisdictions.

As usual its the little guy that suffers, meanwhile the rampant criminality shown by wall st bankers continues to go unpunished.....

[hazek]

not at all.  educate customers so they can structure their own tx's so as not to attract attention.

In some jurisdictions that is highly illegal.

You can't be seriously suggesting that merely learning about the state's arbitrary rules about money transactions is itself against their rules, can you?

[Bitcoin Oz]

not at all.  educate customers so they can structure their own tx's so as not to attract attention.

In some jurisdictions that is highly illegal.

You can't be seriously suggesting that merely learning about the state's arbitrary rules about money transactions is itself against their rules, can you?

Then they couldnt entrap people and confiscate their money 

[hazek]

not at all.  educate customers so they can structure their own tx's so as not to attract attention.

In some jurisdictions that is highly illegal.

You can't be seriously suggesting that merely learning about the state's arbitrary rules about money transactions is itself against their rules, can you?

Learning no. Teaching yes!

Yeah, I can see how that would work:

"Follow the rules!"
"What rules?"
"Sorry, as per rules, I'm not allowed to teach you."
"Oh, ok, fuck you."