How to discuss hardware manufacturers was Re: BFL fucked us over again

[PuertoLibre]

Bruno can start his scam accusation thread and post whatever he wants in scam accusations.

Serious question: Why is it only allowed in Scam Accusations?

Will that change if they are ripped to bits by the FTC?

-------------------------

Also why the change of attitude towards BFL specifically?
They were a visible train wreck long in advance of this new restriction. Alot of people (including BFL) had continued to open threads advertising their wares even when it was obvious they had trouble delivering within expectations.

So I guess my question is why the change in attitude after this train wreck has already begun to rust from all the rain?

What is gained by limiting it now after all the spilled milk has left the container?
Why can't we at least apply for self moderated threads in this section pertaining to BFL? (Within controlled reason)

Hashfast failed outright and they still seemingly have privileges no longer afforded to BFL....?

I implore you to find where I've said anything that says bfl is good in any way for, well, anyone or anything. They can burn in hell for all I care.

Just because we're sticking strictly to the forum rules doesn't suddenly make us some kind of dick sucking manufacturer lovers. Heck this BFL fucked us over thread has been allowed for as long as I can remember...

Where can the forum rules be found?

[bcp19]

I implore you to find where I've said anything that says bfl is good in any way for, well, anyone or anything. They can burn in hell for all I care.

Just because we're sticking strictly to the forum rules doesn't suddenly make us some kind of dick sucking manufacturer lovers. Heck this BFL fucked us over thread has been allowed for as long as I can remember...

Where can the forum rules be found?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=20333.0

[-ck]

Serious question: Why is it only allowed in Scam Accusations?

Will that change if they are ripped to bits by the FTC?

-------------------------

Also why the change of attitude towards BFL specifically?
They were a visible train wreck long in advance of this new restriction. Alot of people (including BFL) had continued to open threads advertising their wares even when it was obvious they had trouble delivering within expectations.

So I guess my question is why the change in attitude after this train wreck has already begun to rust from all the rain?

What is gained by limiting it now after all the spilled milk has left the container?
Why can't we at least apply for self moderated threads in this section pertaining to BFL? (Within controlled reason)

The BFL fucked us over again thread never belonged here in hardware, but it was left here so long prior to anyone deciding where it should really go that it would be unfair to move it away now since people come looking for this thread here. It should have always appeared in the scam accusations area.

I don't know what change of attitude you're talking about. I've applied the rules for as long as I've been moderator (i.e. long after this thread started). The main problem with BFL threads is there are far too many of them so I've tried to prevent dozens of threads appearing at regular intervals and it just so happened that people decided to gravitate towards this one which happens to not be self moderated. The original poster for this thread hasn't even been on the forum since May so it may well be this thread just has an uncontrolled life of its own.

[PuertoLibre]

Serious question: Why is it only allowed in Scam Accusations?

Will that change if they are ripped to bits by the FTC?

-------------------------

Also why the change of attitude towards BFL specifically?
They were a visible train wreck long in advance of this new restriction. Alot of people (including BFL) had continued to open threads advertising their wares even when it was obvious they had trouble delivering within expectations.

So I guess my question is why the change in attitude after this train wreck has already begun to rust from all the rain?

What is gained by limiting it now after all the spilled milk has left the container?
Why can't we at least apply for self moderated threads in this section pertaining to BFL? (Within controlled reason)

The BFL fucked us over again thread never belonged here in hardware, but it was left here so long prior to anyone deciding where it should really go that it would be unfair to move it away now since people come looking for this thread here. It should have always appeared in the scam accusations area.

I don't know what change of attitude you're talking about. I've applied the rules for as long as I've been moderator (i.e. long after this thread started). The main problem with BFL threads is there are far too many of them so I've tried to prevent dozens of threads appearing at regular intervals and it just so happened that people decided to gravitate towards this one which happens to not be self moderated. The original poster for this thread hasn't even been on the forum since May so it may well be this thread just has an uncontrolled life of its own.

I understand as a former moderator that you have to toe the line whether you agree with it or not.

But fact is, when it was good for BFL, they and their advocates (sometimes under sock names) posted tons of BFL threads. Even when the moderatorship knew that company hadn't been delivering when they were supposed to. Even when they took at hostile attitude towards the moderatorship (even from theymos own lips it has been said) and the hostile attitude towards active customers.

A ton of those threads were bumped daily by BFL staff (openly declared) because it supposedly brought them further sales.

Now, (recently within this year or so) after all has been said and done...suddenly new BFL threads don't belong here.

=====================

Whatever your position, it is obvious that BFL is simply another manufacturer of hardware. Same as Spoondolies, HashFast, Antminer, etc.

This means (extremely clearly) your moderation team has opted to act in an openly bias manner towards BFL threads in this specific section. Even before they were under the receivership they were shipping products late and were active as a company despite their negligible performance.

======================

So what discriminator can you use on one company but not on many others?

The Moderator team isn't applying its rules evenly across all segments. While I understand their is some kind of allowance for discretion...it isn't discretion when the rules are applied harshly against one company and not applied towards another.

[-ck]

The Moderator team isn't applying its rules evenly across all segments. While I understand their is some kind of allowance for discretion...it isn't discretion when the rules are applied harshly against one company and not applied towards another.

No, I said I've applied the rules for as long as I've been a moderator and said this thread predates me and the rules were not being applied as aggressively prior to me being moderator. Look around for dupes for any of the other manufacturers now and see how many threads have been locked, deleted, trashed, moved and see if there is any special treatment. The answer to your issue appears to be that there wasn't anywhere near enough moderation previously which is why they sought out more help.

[PuertoLibre]

If you said, "we don't allow trolling threads", in the hardware section. I'd understand.

And I will then ask you what constitutes a trolling thread and actively point it out instances of trolling threads [ or threads with trolling ] across all hardware manufacturers. Hopefully in your collective impartiality drawing you all to clean house until this board is especially clean.

[Gleb Gamow]

Serious question: Why is it only allowed in Scam Accusations?

Will that change if they are ripped to bits by the FTC?

-------------------------

Also why the change of attitude towards BFL specifically?
They were a visible train wreck long in advance of this new restriction. Alot of people (including BFL) had continued to open threads advertising their wares even when it was obvious they had trouble delivering within expectations.

So I guess my question is why the change in attitude after this train wreck has already begun to rust from all the rain?

What is gained by limiting it now after all the spilled milk has left the container?
Why can't we at least apply for self moderated threads in this section pertaining to BFL? (Within controlled reason)

The BFL fucked us over again thread never belonged here in hardware, but it was left here so long prior to anyone deciding where it should really go that it would be unfair to move it away now since people come looking for this thread here. It should have always appeared in the scam accusations area.

I don't know what change of attitude you're talking about. I've applied the rules for as long as I've been moderator (i.e. long after this thread started). The main problem with BFL threads is there are far too many of them so I've tried to prevent dozens of threads appearing at regular intervals and it just so happened that people decided to gravitate towards this one which happens to not be self moderated. The original poster for this thread hasn't even been on the forum since May so it may well be this thread just has an uncontrolled life of its own.

I have no qualms with the way you've conducted yourself, ckolivas, with apologies to those echoing otherwise.

[PuertoLibre]

The Moderator team isn't applying its rules evenly across all segments. While I understand their is some kind of allowance for discretion...it isn't discretion when the rules are applied harshly against one company and not applied towards another.

No, I said I've applied the rules for as long as I've been a moderator and said this thread predates me and the rules were not being applied as aggressively prior to me being moderator. Look around for dupes for any of the other manufacturers now and see how many threads have been locked, deleted, trashed, moved and see if there is any special treatment. The answer to your issue appears to be that there wasn't anywhere near enough moderation previously which is why they sought out more help.

Okay, I will do that in a little bit.

[PuertoLibre]

Serious question: Why is it only allowed in Scam Accusations?

Will that change if they are ripped to bits by the FTC?

-------------------------

Also why the change of attitude towards BFL specifically?
They were a visible train wreck long in advance of this new restriction. Alot of people (including BFL) had continued to open threads advertising their wares even when it was obvious they had trouble delivering within expectations.

So I guess my question is why the change in attitude after this train wreck has already begun to rust from all the rain?

What is gained by limiting it now after all the spilled milk has left the container?
Why can't we at least apply for self moderated threads in this section pertaining to BFL? (Within controlled reason)

The BFL fucked us over again thread never belonged here in hardware, but it was left here so long prior to anyone deciding where it should really go that it would be unfair to move it away now since people come looking for this thread here. It should have always appeared in the scam accusations area.

I don't know what change of attitude you're talking about. I've applied the rules for as long as I've been moderator (i.e. long after this thread started). The main problem with BFL threads is there are far too many of them so I've tried to prevent dozens of threads appearing at regular intervals and it just so happened that people decided to gravitate towards this one which happens to not be self moderated. The original poster for this thread hasn't even been on the forum since May so it may well be this thread just has an uncontrolled life of its own.

I have no qualms with the way you've conducted yourself, ckolivas, with apologies to those echoing otherwise.

I agree, I am not bashing him, but calling into question certain practices and if the logic works properly.

[RoadStress]

The Moderator team isn't applying its rules evenly across all segments. While I understand their is some kind of allowance for discretion...it isn't discretion when the rules are applied harshly against one company and not applied towards another.

C'mon I thought we have established that this is a "free-for-all" forum. While I have questioned the forums rules in the past I have come to the conclusion that the mods/admins have acted in a proper manner whether you like it or not. Try to look at everything from another angle than yours.

[Xian01]

While I have questioned the forums rules in the past I have come to the conclusion that the mods/admins have acted in a proper manner whether you like it or not. Try to look at everything from another angle than yours.

Try posting a link to Theymos' dox located at blockchain.info and see how quickly your opinion changes.

[-ck]

If you said, "we don't allow trolling threads", in the hardware section. I'd understand.

And I will then ask you what constitutes a trolling thread and actively point it out instances of trolling threads [ or threads with trolling ] across all hardware manufacturers. Hopefully in your collective impartiality drawing you all to clean house until this board is especially clean.

It does state no trolling threads effectively in the conduct sticky:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=139380.0

Please feel free to point out trolling threads, as you are no doubt aware the definition is grey so up to our discretion, but there has been and will be continual massive clean out. This thread started out as a complaint thread so it was a service discussion, then it was a scam accusation thread, then it was mud slinging and dick size comparison, celebration, remorse, doxing, you name it. Ideally it should be moved but for historical reasons it's remained in hardware, but honestly wtf is it now? The only real issue I see here is that service discussion, complaints and scam accusations are categorised under economy while it's about mining hardware manufacturers so people expect it to be under mining. (EDIT: Only other thread like this is AMT fucks us over again for the same reason)

I've never been fond of the categories but they mostly predate me and it's kinda hard to convince the admins of the need for some change that involves recategorising existing topics. If you wish to discuss this aspect further, along with some potentially healthy debate about just what the categories should be, I suggest we take this discussion to meta/

[Gleb Gamow]

While I have questioned the forums rules in the past I have come to the conclusion that the mods/admins have acted in a proper manner whether you like it or not. Try to look at everything from another angle than yours.

Try posting a link to Theymos' dox located at blockchain.info and see how quickly your opinion changes.

Living just south of him, I once drove to his home, rang his doorbell, then ran away. He never knew it was me till now. 

[PuertoLibre]

If you said, "we don't allow trolling threads", in the hardware section. I'd understand.

And I will then ask you what constitutes a trolling thread and actively point it out instances of trolling threads [ or threads with trolling ] across all hardware manufacturers. Hopefully in your collective impartiality drawing you all to clean house until this board is especially clean.

It does state no trolling threads effectively in the conduct sticky:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=139380.0

Please feel free to point out trolling threads, as you are no doubt aware the definition is grey so up to our discretion, but there has been and will be continual massive clean out. This thread started out as a complaint thread so it was a service discussion, then it was a scam accusation thread, then it was mud slinging and dick size comparison, celebration, remorse, doxing, you name it. Ideally it should be moved but for historical reasons it's remained in hardware, but honestly wtf is it now? The only real issue I see here is that service discussion, complaints and scam accusations are categorised under economy while it's about mining hardware manufacturers so people expect it to be under mining.

I've never been fond of the categories but they mostly predate me and it's kinda hard to convince the admins of the need for some change that involves recategorising existing topics. If you wish to discuss this aspect further, along with some potentially healthy debate about just what the categories should be, I suggest we take this discussion to meta/

A protocreature.

One with a DNA of malcontent.

Where do you recommend I could start a BFL thread for posting the latest updates on their case (no trolling)?

[-ck]

Where do you recommend I could start a BFL thread for posting the latest updates on their case (no trolling)?

If it's not a scam accusation discussion, and just to discuss the FTC case against them, service discussion seems most appropriate with the added bonus that it would allow you to create a self moderated thread.

[PuertoLibre]

The Moderator team isn't applying its rules evenly across all segments. While I understand their is some kind of allowance for discretion...it isn't discretion when the rules are applied harshly against one company and not applied towards another.

C'mon I thought we have established that this is a "free-for-all" forum. While I have questioned the forums rules in the past I have come to the conclusion that the mods/admins have acted in a proper manner whether you like it or not. Try to look at everything from another angle than yours.

If I can't post a pic of you raping a young donkey, trust me it is not a free-for-all.

Everyone knows you don't do crazy stuff on BTC Talk. Even moderators have a conscience for the donkeys identity.

--------------------------

I was a moderator for 6 years so trust me I can switch caps. I know and have a pretty good idea of how forums are run.

[PuertoLibre]

Where do you recommend I could start a BFL thread for posting the latest updates on their case (no trolling)?

If it's not a scam accusation discussion, and just to discuss the FTC case against them, service discussion seems most appropriate with the added bonus that it would allow you to create a self moderated thread.

Okay, I will go about combing these ASKFTC tags and neutering some "personality" from certain posts.

[JorgeStolfi]

Shouldn't the discussion about moderation be in some "meta" trhead? 

[-ck]

Shouldn't the discussion about moderation be in some "meta" trhead? 

Indeed it should, but we didn't want to lose the flow of the discussion. Will Clean up, hang in there.

[Gleb Gamow]

Where do you recommend I could start a BFL thread for posting the latest updates on their case (no trolling)?

If it's not a scam accusation discussion, and just to discuss the FTC case against them, service discussion seems most appropriate with the added bonus that it would allow you to create a self moderated thread.

Okay, I will go about combing these ASKFTC tags and neutering some "personality" from certain posts.

Damn, bud, you now have your hands full.

Shouldn't the discussion about moderation be in some "meta" trhead? 

Indeed it should, but we didn't want to lose the flow of the discussion. Will Clean up, hang in there.

Thanks, ckolivas.