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Author Topic: You are threatening Bitcoin’s security  (Read 30673 times)
tiberiandusk
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May 20, 2011, 01:58:03 PM
 #161

If you're on DeepBit like I was give Eligius or Continuum a try. I like having the coins say generated in my client instead of just receiving payments from somewhere.

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nazgulnarsil
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May 29, 2011, 06:15:43 PM
 #162

two questions:

why is a simple majority and not a super majority or qualified majority of some type needed?  couldn't this be changed?

why doesn't the ownership of bitcoins themselves give you some sort of veto power similar to stockholders?  After all the biggest holders of bitcoins have the LEAST incentive to devalue their own holdings.  Currently there are two components to influencing the network: running clients and hashing power.  Neither of these necessarily involve holding lots of bitcoins.  gmaxwell pointed out that you could trade bitcoins for influence in either of the two components, but I'm not sure it makes sense to have to "sell stock" to "vote".

at the very least clients with large wallets associated with them should have proportionately more power in resisting changes to the underlying protocol.
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May 30, 2011, 01:32:04 AM
 #163

two questions:

why is a simple majority and not a super majority or qualified majority of some type needed?  couldn't this be changed?


No, because it's not a formal voting process.  It's only the act of downloading a new client and running it with new rules, whichever branch dominates wins.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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June 06, 2011, 03:27:51 AM
 #164

I want to add some thoughts...

I doubt that deepbit would harm the system but the possibility to do so could attract attention. For example I await governments to cry out loud to stop this black market money. So I really dont know how much computing power agencies in the world have and if they could overtake 50% only to harm the system but Im sure they could take control about pools if they want. I think thats possibility one.

And the second possibility would be that someone goes the sneaky way and secretly buys access or owns different pools that doesnt seem to be connected but in fact are connected through this one buyer. He could be capable of combining everything having secretly over 50%...

So while im now understand enough of the real risks of that I think there should be enough possibilities (not saying how hard to achieve) to have more than 50%...

 

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saqwe
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June 07, 2011, 12:13:05 AM
 #165

Come on guys we all know you are in this for the $$$. If bitcoin gets attacked the least you would care once you have your BTC all converted to $$$ !

If people would care at all about Bitcoin and its security they would stop mining at deepbit.net monopoly but as you can see they all care about the moneyz !

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June 07, 2011, 12:18:41 AM
 #166

if deepbit is not broken up or limited we may have to take action against deepbit, i would hate to have to do it but this is posing a security risk to the end user.
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June 07, 2011, 12:24:00 AM
 #167

if deepbit is not broken up or limited we may have to take action against deepbit, i would hate to have to do it but this is posing a security risk to the end user.

Yeah, write them a strongly worded letter and if they don't respond then write them an even stronger worded letter.

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June 07, 2011, 12:30:30 AM
 #168

if deepbit is not broken up or limited we may have to take action against deepbit, i would hate to have to do it but this is posing a security risk to the end user.

Yeah, write them a strongly worded letter and if they don't respond then write them an even stronger worded letter.

Or better yet, just start an advertising campaign for the small pools directed at Deepbit's miners.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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June 07, 2011, 01:24:48 AM
 #169

if deepbit is not broken up or limited we may have to take action against deepbit, i would hate to have to do it but this is posing a security risk to the end user.

Yeah, write them a strongly worded letter and if they don't respond then write them an even stronger worded letter.

Or better yet, just start an advertising campaign for the small pools directed at Deepbit's miners.

See how much [Tyco] would charge to advertise other pools on his web page or put together some people willing to contribute to an advertising campaign for other pools on some major websites/google ad words.

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grndzero
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June 08, 2011, 12:37:16 PM
 #170

Bump because there's not enough deepbit threads on the main page.

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July 07, 2011, 12:01:33 PM
 #171

Two months later.



Bitcoin was founded on the premise that in order to use it, you wouldn’t have to trust anyone. Right now, I have to trust the deepbit OP, Tycho, to not double spend.

I consider anyone mining on deepbit a criminal.

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July 07, 2011, 04:07:16 PM
 #172

people are watching and examining deepbit like hawks, I doubt deepbit will do anything fraudulent. Plus why would any established pool destroy their own investment by destabilizing bitcoin network? the reward is tiny vs the potential loss. What we need to watch for is if any non-established source has control of hash power over 50%.

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July 07, 2011, 04:29:43 PM
 #173

people are watching and examining deepbit like hawks, I doubt deepbit will do anything fraudulent. Plus why would any established pool destroy their own investment by destabilizing bitcoin network? the reward is tiny vs the potential loss. What we need to watch for is if any non-established source has control of hash power over 50%.
But what if someone hacks deepbit and gains control of the pool?

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July 07, 2011, 09:44:01 PM
 #174

people are watching and examining deepbit like hawks, I doubt deepbit will do anything fraudulent. Plus why would any established pool destroy their own investment by destabilizing bitcoin network? the reward is tiny vs the potential loss. What we need to watch for is if any non-established source has control of hash power over 50%.
But what if someone hacks deepbit and gains control of the pool?

It would be a short lived win, because deepbit doesn't control the pool's nodes.  As soon as the breech was noticed, and it wouldn't take all that long, the nodes' owners would just starve deepbit of it's collective resources and the takeover attempt would be useless.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
TheVirus
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July 07, 2011, 09:58:19 PM
 #175

people are watching and examining deepbit like hawks, I doubt deepbit will do anything fraudulent. Plus why would any established pool destroy their own investment by destabilizing bitcoin network? the reward is tiny vs the potential loss. What we need to watch for is if any non-established source has control of hash power over 50%.
But what if someone hacks deepbit and gains control of the pool?

It would be a short lived win, because deepbit doesn't control the pool's nodes.  As soon as the breech was noticed, and it wouldn't take all that long, the nodes' owners would just starve deepbit of it's collective resources and the takeover attempt would be useless.

But couldn't someone with control of 51% script it so they 'found' 1,000,000 blocks in the span of several seconds?

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July 07, 2011, 09:58:53 PM
 #176

I consider anyone mining on deepbit a criminal.

lol

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July 07, 2011, 10:17:09 PM
 #177

people are watching and examining deepbit like hawks, I doubt deepbit will do anything fraudulent. Plus why would any established pool destroy their own investment by destabilizing bitcoin network? the reward is tiny vs the potential loss. What we need to watch for is if any non-established source has control of hash power over 50%.
But what if someone hacks deepbit and gains control of the pool?

It would be a short lived win, because deepbit doesn't control the pool's nodes.  As soon as the breech was noticed, and it wouldn't take all that long, the nodes' owners would just starve deepbit of it's collective resources and the takeover attempt would be useless.

But couldn't someone with control of 51% script it so they 'found' 1,000,000 blocks in the span of several seconds?

No.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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July 07, 2011, 10:18:13 PM
 #178

people are watching and examining deepbit like hawks, I doubt deepbit will do anything fraudulent. Plus why would any established pool destroy their own investment by destabilizing bitcoin network? the reward is tiny vs the potential loss. What we need to watch for is if any non-established source has control of hash power over 50%.
But what if someone hacks deepbit and gains control of the pool?

It would be a short lived win, because deepbit doesn't control the pool's nodes.  As soon as the breech was noticed, and it wouldn't take all that long, the nodes' owners would just starve deepbit of it's collective resources and the takeover attempt would be useless.

But couldn't someone with control of 51% script it so they 'found' 1,000,000 blocks in the span of several seconds?
No.  They still have to be legitimate blocks with hashes inside of the difficulty requirement.  Otherwise, all other clients would reject the new blockchain as soon as it was presented to them, and their double-spends wouldn't propagate.
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July 07, 2011, 11:58:47 PM
 #179

Move to other pools. Stop mining on deepbit.

Here’s what someone with 50% of the network’s hashrate could do.


So you are saying Tycho is an attacker? Seriously?

What if law enformenet confiscated Tycho's servers with the intent of controlling and corrupting the hash chain?
What if a blackhat compromised Tycho's server?
What if a criminal coerced Tycho at gun point?

Any economy has a weak point, but let's not make Bitcoin's weak point a single person. If I were that person, I wouldn't be able to sleep at night knowing the risks.
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July 08, 2011, 07:38:55 AM
 #180

Looks like he has only about 30-40% now.

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