Cops immediately shot a 12 year old holding a toy gun without warning.

[oprahwindfury]

Ohio is actually an open carry state so this case will be interesting. Did the cop know Ohio was open carry or was he just massively incompetent? In an open carry state I'd imagine they first try and give the suspect a chance to surrender or put down their weapon. This 12 year old kid didn't stand a chance. He was just shot in the head right then and there.

Warning: video is pretty brutal to watch

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Z8qNUWekWE

[steelhouse]

They should make the law if you shoot someone you lose your job without pay or pension.  Thus, the officer does not go to jail, however we never have to feed them.  Money makes people think twice.

[BitCoinNutJob]

Ohio is actually an open carry state so this case will be interesting. Did the cop know Ohio was open carry or was he just massively incompetent? In an open carry state I'd imagine they first try and give the suspect a chance to surrender or put down their weapon. This 12 year old kid didn't stand a chance. He was just shot in the head right then and there.

Warning: video is pretty brutal to watch

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Z8qNUWekWE

That was pretty shocking, they gave no chance, there was no other people around in danger, the "suspect" was not moving fast.

If you are in to legalized mass murder just become a policeman in USA it seems.

[spazzdla]

Unlimited power, zero responsibility WHAT COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG?!?!?!

[Bitcoin12345]

They should make the law if you shoot someone you lose your job without pay or pension.  Thus, the officer does not go to jail, however we never have to feed them.  Money makes people think twice.

No, they should just enforce the law as it is, last time I checked murder was illegal and he clearly murdered that boy and therefore should be tried for murder. He's job title shouldn't come into it.

[BADecker]

It's all about war. If you do searches for it, governments want limited war, war that they can contain and control if need be. It means more money for the war mongers.

They are bringing the war thing home to the States through the police agencies. It is becoming, if you see a cop, fall back until reinforcements arrive. The cops are acting the same way about everyone else, except that in the case of cops, it is shoot first and ask questions later if you ask them at all.

[BADecker]

The answer isn't one that can be implemented easily. But once it has been implemented, it will work far better than what we have now.

The idea of the Second Amendment wasn't one to give people the right to arm themselves. It was to uphold the right that every person has to arm himself.

If everyone were armed, people would come to respect each other. This respect would lead to friendship and camaraderie among them. The whole nation would become a group that was like a peaceful military, not controlled by the government, but active among the populace. Common sense, common law.

Crime would disappear, because the people wouldn't stand for it. No police department would be effective for anything other than criminal investigation. Cops wouldn't need guns, themselves. Why? They would be protected by the people to do their jobs of investigation - finding hidden criminals.

Cops are trained people. Train the rest of the people, and we won't need cops.

[BitCoinNutJob]

I would love to be able to carry a gun (UK here), i would feel a lot safer, but yeah can imagine every now and again someone would go nuts and kills 20 people in a school or something.  That is a different issue though.

[TheButterZone]

I would love to be able to carry a gun (UK here), i would feel a lot safer, but yeah can imagine every now and again someone would go nuts and kills 20 people in a school or something.  That is a different issue though.

Not really, since the only schools (and anywhere else) that suffer mass murders (more than 3 victims) are "gun free zones" (which tell all criminals that they are 100% safe to commit any atrocity within). Giffords held her event right across the street from a school so it was in the federal gun free school zone, so nobody could have legally been able to "Constitutional Carry" there. Totally predictably, mass murder followed.

[iCEBREAKER]

Ohio is actually an open carry state so this case will be interesting. Did the cop know Ohio was open carry or was he just massively incompetent? In an open carry state I'd imagine they first try and give the suspect a chance to surrender or put down their weapon. This 12 year old kid didn't stand a chance. He was just shot in the head right then and there.

Warning: video is pretty brutal to watch

The "toy gun" wasn't the pink plastic water pistol you imply.  It shot BBs and was modified to look real.

"Open carry" doesn't mean you can point a realistic gun at people, especially cops, and expect anything less than a promptly delivered Darwin Award.

The parents are at fault for doing a terrible job of supervising their son.  Now the poor cop has to live with the awful consequences of their failure to raise a properly monitored and disciplined child.

[TheButterZone]

That video is shit quality, so how the fuck is anyone making absolute statements about it?

[Spendulus]

Ohio is actually an open carry state so this case will be interesting. Did the cop know Ohio was open carry or was he just massively incompetent? In an open carry state I'd imagine they first try and give the suspect a chance to surrender or put down their weapon. This 12 year old kid didn't stand a chance. He was just shot in the head right then and there.

Warning: video is pretty brutal to watch

The "toy gun" wasn't the pink plastic water pistol you imply.  It shot BBs and was modified to look real.

"Open carry" doesn't mean you can point a realistic gun at people, especially cops, and expect anything less than a promptly delivered Darwin Award.

The parents are at fault for doing a terrible job of supervising their son.  Now the poor cop has to live with the awful consequences of their failure to raise a properly monitored and disciplined child.

No, I'd have to disagree in part.  The toy gun was white in the b&w video, therefore it was some color that comes up as white.  Could have been green, white, red....

Any cop that interprets a green bb gun as a threat needs some serious psychiatric help.

Look, I'm experienced with handguns and I know there are a few made and sold which are real guns, and which are pink.  But that's very very few.

Toy guns are legally required to have an appearance which is different from real ones - color, or an orange tip on the barrel.  This "signals visually" that it's a toy.

[iCEBREAKER]

Ohio is actually an open carry state so this case will be interesting. Did the cop know Ohio was open carry or was he just massively incompetent? In an open carry state I'd imagine they first try and give the suspect a chance to surrender or put down their weapon. This 12 year old kid didn't stand a chance. He was just shot in the head right then and there.

Warning: video is pretty brutal to watch

The "toy gun" wasn't the pink plastic water pistol you imply.  It shot BBs and was modified to look real.

"Open carry" doesn't mean you can point a realistic gun at people, especially cops, and expect anything less than a promptly delivered Darwin Award.

The parents are at fault for doing a terrible job of supervising their son.  Now the poor cop has to live with the awful consequences of their failure to raise a properly monitored and disciplined child.

No, I'd have to disagree in part.  The toy gun was white in the b&w video, therefore it was some color that comes up as white.  Could have been green, white, red....

Any cop that interprets a green bb gun as a threat needs some serious psychiatric help.

Look, I'm experienced with handguns and I know there are a few made and sold which are real guns, and which are pink.  But that's very very few.

Toy guns are legally required to have an appearance which is different from real ones - color, or an orange tip on the barrel.  This "signals visually" that it's a toy.

Using this tragedy to score cheap anti-police and/or anti-RKBA debate points is asinine.

If you could get your facts right, that would be great.

The toy gun was modified to make it look real:



Who was in charge of this child while he was modifying the gun's appearance and using it to scare people?

If he was massacring people with a real gun, the public would be all "ZOMG WHERE WERE THE POLICE WHY DIDN'T THEY ACT SOONER?"

[BADecker]

In a "required-to-open-carry" State, things would be different.

It might be disastrous for a State to implement Open-Carry-Required on the spot, without any movement to get the people used to the idea, and that isn't the way it should be done. Neither is it the way that I am talking about.

Open carry in the past was a bit of a hassle. Even though it would be easier now, with all the modifications to holsters and such, who wants to open carry all the time in public. Nobody. It is a nuisance to have that thing hanging there. We have enough trouble carrying groceries to the car.

If the people of a State were used to the idea, training would be in place about how and when to use guns. We wouldn't need cops. There wouldn't be as many school shootings, because anyone using a gun in an armed school would be dead before he knew it. Everyone would know how to handle kids with toy guns; there might be toy gun areas. A real shooter in a toy gun area would be dead because folks would know how to handle such situations.

Once the bad guys are dead, only friendly, respectful people are left.

Implement this in your State, and you won't need a National Guard or police.



EDIT: Cops are simply trained and armed people. Train and arm everybody, and you won't need cops.

[deluxeCITY]

Ohio is actually an open carry state so this case will be interesting. Did the cop know Ohio was open carry or was he just massively incompetent? In an open carry state I'd imagine they first try and give the suspect a chance to surrender or put down their weapon. This 12 year old kid didn't stand a chance. He was just shot in the head right then and there.

Warning: video is pretty brutal to watch

The "toy gun" wasn't the pink plastic water pistol you imply.  It shot BBs and was modified to look real.

"Open carry" doesn't mean you can point a realistic gun at people, especially cops, and expect anything less than a promptly delivered Darwin Award.

The parents are at fault for doing a terrible job of supervising their son.  Now the poor cop has to live with the awful consequences of their failure to raise a properly monitored and disciplined child.

It is my understanding that the pink/red cap on guns were suppose to show that a toy gun is in fact a toy. The very reason these caps were placed on toy guns (and BB  guns) by the manufacturers is to tell the police not to shoot when they are pointed at them because they know they cannot do any real damage/harm. If the gun was modified to not have this red cap then the police officer should assume that it was a real gun

[BitCoinNutJob]

That video is shit quality, so how the fuck is anyone making absolute statements about it?

We can deduce some things, but yeah the quality is shit.  Police in USA shock ROW most i think thats where the absolutes come from.

[stevegreer]

Yet another case where the general public reacts based on passion rather than fact. And of course, the mainstream media, as usual, is doing its best to cover up as many facts as possible in an effort to spin it in the way they want it to be spun.

There are several facts that were released right after the incident that are conveniently being left out now that it has gathered more attention. The first is that the 911 caller stated that someone who appeared to be in his 20s was holding a gun and pointing it at people and basically scaring the shit out of everyone. Now, he did say to the 911 operator that he thought the gun MIGHT be fake, but he wasn't sure. The 911 operator did not relay this information to the responding officers.

Looking at the video I can see two things that would definitely put me on edge if I were a cop. One, the kid definitely did NOT look 12. Second, as the cop car is pulling up, the kid starts walking toward the car and lifts up the front of his shirt to show/grab the gun. Now, I am no police officer, but I have had tactical training in the military. It is a fact that in situations like this, cops/military have to make split second decisions based on what limited facts they may have and from an immediate survey of the scene/situation. And having someone walking toward the car like that will always be treated as a threatening gesture.

People are saying the cop was too hasty in his shooting of the "suspect", but I am sure in his mind he was only thinking of protecting himself and his partner from what at the time seemed like a life-threatening situation. Cops are shot and killed by armed suspects all of the time. It's funny how there's never a public outcry when that happens. Newsflash! Not all cops are hate-filled bigots whose only purpose in life is to kill as many innocent people as they can.

[Spendulus]

Ohio is actually an open carry state so this case will be interesting. Did the cop know Ohio was open carry or was he just massively incompetent? In an open carry state I'd imagine they first try and give the suspect a chance to surrender or put down their weapon. This 12 year old kid didn't stand a chance. He was just shot in the head right then and there.

Warning: video is pretty brutal to watch

The "toy gun" wasn't the pink plastic water pistol you imply.  It shot BBs and was modified to look real.

"Open carry" doesn't mean you can point a realistic gun at people, especially cops, and expect anything less than a promptly delivered Darwin Award.

The parents are at fault for doing a terrible job of supervising their son.  Now the poor cop has to live with the awful consequences of their failure to raise a properly monitored and disciplined child.

No, I'd have to disagree in part.  The toy gun was white in the b&w video, therefore it was some color that comes up as white.  Could have been green, white, red....

Any cop that interprets a green bb gun as a threat needs some serious psychiatric help.

Look, I'm experienced with handguns and I know there are a few made and sold which are real guns, and which are pink.  But that's very very few.

Toy guns are legally required to have an appearance which is different from real ones - color, or an orange tip on the barrel.  This "signals visually" that it's a toy.

Using this tragedy to score cheap anti-police and/or anti-RKBA debate points is asinine.

If you could get your facts right, that would be great.

The toy gun was modified to make it look real:



Who was in charge of this child while he was modifying the gun's appearance and using it to scare people?

If he was massacring people with a real gun, the public would be all "ZOMG WHERE WERE THE POLICE WHY DIDN'T THEY ACT SOONER?"

Hey, calm down.  I'm just saying that in the survelliance video, the gun looks WHITE.  From that I conclude that it was some color other than gray or black.

This is pretty much irrefutable, right?  How do you explain it.

Added. 

Looking at the video again,  I guess what I'm seeing as a horizontal section of white, likely the slide and barrel, might possibly be a light color shirt sleeve or something. 

But the cop's actions are a bit puzzling.  He moves back away from the car out into the open, where he is most vulnerable.   Then he moves forward and fires.

When threatened he should have moved to cover and concealment first, then assess the situation.   But the kid's actions could certainly be construed as threatening.  In cop think that's seeing a barrel pointed your direction....

[deluxeCITY]

Yet another case where the general public reacts based on passion rather than fact. And of course, the mainstream media, as usual, is doing its best to cover up as many facts as possible in an effort to spin it in the way they want it to be spun.

The left wing part of the media has a history of spinning stories and evidence to support their left wing agenda (NBC for example edited the 911 call of the guy who killed Trevon Martin).

There are several facts that were released right after the incident that are conveniently being left out now that it has gathered more attention. The first is that the 911 caller stated that someone who appeared to be in his 20s was holding a gun and pointing it at people and basically scaring the shit out of everyone. Now, he did say to the 911 operator that he thought the gun MIGHT be fake, but he wasn't sure. The 911 operator did not relay this information to the responding officers.

I don't think this would have made a difference. Even if the officers were told the gun might be fake, they would not have assumed that it was fake from the start, they would only act as if the gun was fake once they can tell for sure that it was in fact fake.

Looking at the video I can see two things that would definitely put me on edge if I were a cop. One, the kid definitely did NOT look 12. Second, as the cop car is pulling up, the kid starts walking toward the car and lifts up the front of his shirt to show/grab the gun. Now, I am no police officer, but I have had tactical training in the military. It is a fact that in situations like this, cops/military have to make split second decisions based on what limited facts they may have and from an immediate survey of the scene/situation. And having someone walking toward the car like that will always be treated as a threatening gesture.

The kid was only escalating the situation by doing this. I would like to know who taught him to act like that.

People are saying the cop was too hasty in his shooting of the "suspect", but I am sure in his mind he was only thinking of protecting himself and his partner from what at the time seemed like a life-threatening situation. Cops are shot and killed by armed suspects all of the time. It's funny how there's never a public outcry when that happens. Newsflash! Not all cops are hate-filled bigots whose only purpose in life is to kill as many innocent people as they can.

agreed

[Spendulus]

Yet another case where the general public reacts based on passion rather than fact. And of course, the mainstream media, as usual, is doing its best to cover up as many facts as possible in an effort to spin it in the way they want it to be spun.

The left wing part of the media has a history of spinning stories and evidence to support their left wing agenda (NBC for example edited the 911 call of the guy who killed Trevon Martin).

There are several facts that were released right after the incident that are conveniently being left out now that it has gathered more attention. The first is that the 911 caller stated that someone who appeared to be in his 20s was holding a gun and pointing it at people and basically scaring the shit out of everyone. Now, he did say to the 911 operator that he thought the gun MIGHT be fake, but he wasn't sure. The 911 operator did not relay this information to the responding officers.

I don't think this would have made a difference. Even if the officers were told the gun might be fake, they would not have assumed that it was fake from the start, they would only act as if the gun was fake once they can tell for sure that it was in fact fake.

Looking at the video I can see two things that would definitely put me on edge if I were a cop. One, the kid definitely did NOT look 12. Second, as the cop car is pulling up, the kid starts walking toward the car and lifts up the front of his shirt to show/grab the gun. Now, I am no police officer, but I have had tactical training in the military. It is a fact that in situations like this, cops/military have to make split second decisions based on what limited facts they may have and from an immediate survey of the scene/situation. And having someone walking toward the car like that will always be treated as a threatening gesture.

The kid was only escalating the situation by doing this. I would like to know who taught him to act like that.

People are saying the cop was too hasty in his shooting of the "suspect", but I am sure in his mind he was only thinking of protecting himself and his partner from what at the time seemed like a life-threatening situation. Cops are shot and killed by armed suspects all of the time. It's funny how there's never a public outcry when that happens. Newsflash! Not all cops are hate-filled bigots whose only purpose in life is to kill as many innocent people as they can.

agreed

 What's wrong about the cop's behavior as shown by the video is this.

Police are told about a possibly armed guy, one police car drives right up the the suspect and the cop gets out.  The suspect waves what might be a gun around a bit, then the cop shoots him.

Huh?  The car drives right up to the guy and the cop gets out?

No precautions?  No concealment or cover?  Just drive right up to him?

If this had been a real encounter with a bad guy, I rather doubt the cop would have gotten out with his life.  So what the video shows is poor judgement, poor judgement, and then panic when he decided - wrongly - his life was in danger.

What this in turn shows is flaws in the training of police.  Yes, they are trained to shoot if there is something that looks like a gun barrel pointed in their direction.  This does not adequately handle the problem of kids with toys and/or mentally deficient adults with toys.  There are large numbers of examples of the end effects of these policies.

By the way, there's absolutely no logical reason to translate talk like mine into "anti-police" or "Anti-LEO".  Police who act more like "assault officers" than "peace officers" need to be reprimanded, retrained or retired.  The reason is that they are our employees, we don't need "assault officers".