BitShares (wth?!)

[tonyk]

The bitusd to usd peg is working quite well. There are very few arbitrage opportunities which are gone within very short period

To bitcoin fans...Don't hold any BTS if you don't want to. Buy BitBTC and hodl...You will earn some btc interest, reduce your exposure to get goxed from a centralized exchange and you will support the true decentalization of the bitcoin ideoly.

Your investment is secured based on pure and simple economics. BTS is just a bank that every bitasset created is backed by x2 BTS in collateral. As long as 1 BTS has some value bigger than ZERO your investment in bitassets is secured

So please do your research first, stop spreading FUD, be honest to your decentralized ideologies and stop supporting the corrupted centralized system of cryptos and proof of waste of bitcoin for no reason and at all costs. Bitcoin and proof of waste coins were great last year but cryptos have evolved so don't be left behind..

You cannot have a bitUSD peg without convertibility to USD at some specific point...
Or a bitBTC peg without convertiability to BTC at some point.

These are futures markets minus the "settlement".

This is much more serious than running an unregistered exchange...
It's such a basic error that it can only be considered fraud when it collapses.

Just imagine that instead of BTS...
You create a USD peg using tulips or baseball cards... both of which have real value.

If you have a cult following of a few hundred zombie chinese "traders"...
And you can have WHALES with tons of tulips manipulate the market...
And you can keep changing the rules.

IT  WILL  KINDA  WORK  FOR  A  WHILE...
But when the shit hits the fan... in the end all you got is tulips... and no USD.

There is nothing new here. People were doing this 200 years ago.

I am ready to accept this if you are ready to accept that BTC has no value as well.
Bitcoin, created out of thin air and the birth certificate for its creation recorded for the future generation... not redeemable for anything ever, btw.

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[TinEye]

TinEye:
It is sad to see the PTS name being used however this is a 3rd party dac, no direct relation to the main dev's of Bitshares.  Since all PTS donations were returned to their original owners, the bts dev's will not make anything on this deal besides what they held from mining themselves.  This could very well hurt bts if the launch and product is botched.

The BTS devs are quite clear that the PTS has their full backing. Otherwise that new PTS is just a sham and doesn't represent the original PTS, and so are lying in  their announcement.

With merger they should've openly declared that PTS is dead to them. The fact that they are still trying to get more from it is quite concerning regarding their motivations.

[HCLivess]

This DPOS is an incredibly bad idea for obvious reasons
note to self: do not get involved ever

[monsterer]

This DPOS is an incredibly bad idea for obvious reasons
note to self: do not get involved ever

Perhaps you will enjoy the POW fork of the bitshares code-base, called Sparkle.

http://thetruesparkles.wix.com/sparkle
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?board=80.0

[TinEye]

Its the greed of the involved group which makes it difficult to warm up to them despite their fantastic tech. They are now trying a new pump and dump with the PTS.

You do understand that given the current valuation of BTS these developers are making far less than they are worth... Stop calling people greedy because you want them to provide you something for nothing. Their time and resources cost money, and simply because you are not willing to help foot the bill doesn't mean others are not. Also as an aside, every long term investor has made tremendous gains.

You are saying that since they are making less they have the right to restart PTS and pump and dump it?

[ThomasVeil]

BTS is just a bank that every bitasset created is backed by x2 BTS in collateral. As long as 1 BTS has some value bigger than ZERO your investment in bitassets is secured

So please do your research first, stop spreading FUD,

About that: it's x3 collateral - not 2.
And BTS doesn't have to fall to zero - it just has to fall enough so that the collateral is not covering the costs.
Or the price of the pegged asset has to rise enough.

Which btw. makes it worse than the baseball cards example by Zer0Sum. Those have at least some independent value - even if manipulated. BTS on the other hand is directly tied to the success of the pegs. If one of them falters, the other will too.

I am ready to accept this if you are ready to accept that BTC has no value as well.
Bitcoin, created out of thin air and the birth certificate for its creation recorded for the future generation... not redeemable for anything ever, btw.

Everyone knows BTC can fall. Everyone knows there is no object you can redeem if it does.
But remember BTS is (straight from their website):
"Better than a swiss bank account".
"Save in Gold, Silver, Gas, Anything"
"Never Frozen"
"Free Market Decentralization!"

Even the supporters here admitted that rather:
BitAssets are derivatives with hidden risks.
You don't save in anything but BTS...
...which can collapse, evaporating your money.
And it holds so far because of central intervention.

[mavromixalakis]

I really can't understand your arguments.

Both bitcoin and BTS can disappear tomorrow and people wake up and realise that both are crap and have absolutely zero value and are bubbles, tulips or whatever.

Bitcoin has value because people around the world believe in its value as decentralized money (obviously not the case anymore with all the ASICS and big mining pools but anyway...) subject to no Government manipulation. Bitcoin is a very nice idea and ideology.

Based on this ideology that bitcoin try to achieve and if we continue on the assumption that people will always believe in this ideology one can see bitcoin now as a loss making company and any potential profits is based purely on speculation about future utility and demand.

Based on bitcoin's ideology BTS has created market pegged assets. BTS economic theory is strong and the peg will hold as long as people believe in what BTS try to achieve, which is nothing more than a truly profitable decentralized bank   vs. bitcoin's loss making company. People will have economic incentives to trade around the peg because if they don't others might do so they have incentive to follow the peg. If bitusd is lower than usd you buy bitusd and vice versa. Simple as that.

I think that the risk to wake up and realise that bitusd is traded way below usd and becomes valueless is much lower than the risk someone dumps x mil bitcoins at once and plunge the price, or double spending from mining pools.

There is absolutely no reason why any merchant will ever prefer in the future to accept payment in bitcoin vs. bitusd. Bitcoin can never become merchant's currency. A speculative commodity maybe but currency no way..bitusd is way faster than btc will ever be and will always be pegged very close to usd.

[robrigo]

This DPOS is an incredibly bad idea for obvious reasons
note to self: do not get involved ever

If the reasons are so obvious, would you care to elaborate them?

[toast]

Its the greed of the involved group which makes it difficult to warm up to them despite their fantastic tech. They are now trying a new pump and dump with the PTS.

You do understand that given the current valuation of BTS these developers are making far less than they are worth... Stop calling people greedy because you want them to provide you something for nothing. Their time and resources cost money, and simply because you are not willing to help foot the bill doesn't mean others are not. Also as an aside, every long term investor has made tremendous gains.

You are saying that since they are making less they have the right to restart PTS and pump and dump it?

Who is "they"?  The guy trying to restart PTS is doing so against the advice of most of the core team.

[TinEye]

Its the greed of the involved group which makes it difficult to warm up to them despite their fantastic tech. They are now trying a new pump and dump with the PTS.

You do understand that given the current valuation of BTS these developers are making far less than they are worth... Stop calling people greedy because you want them to provide you something for nothing. Their time and resources cost money, and simply because you are not willing to help foot the bill doesn't mean others are not. Also as an aside, every long term investor has made tremendous gains.

You are saying that since they are making less they have the right to restart PTS and pump and dump it?

Who is "they"?  The guy trying to restart PTS is doing so against the advice of most of the core team.

Your lead developer says he is backing it fully. Are you saying you don't agree?

[toast]

Its the greed of the involved group which makes it difficult to warm up to them despite their fantastic tech. They are now trying a new pump and dump with the PTS.

You do understand that given the current valuation of BTS these developers are making far less than they are worth... Stop calling people greedy because you want them to provide you something for nothing. Their time and resources cost money, and simply because you are not willing to help foot the bill doesn't mean others are not. Also as an aside, every long term investor has made tremendous gains.

You are saying that since they are making less they have the right to restart PTS and pump and dump it?

Who is "they"?  The guy trying to restart PTS is doing so against the advice of most of the core team.

Your lead developer says he is backing it fully. Are you saying you don't agree?

Yeah, I don't agree. I think his "backing it fully" is PR bs to avoid making it look like he's ditching the social consensus. He refunded all PTS ever donated to I3 and plans to not make any more snapshots.

I'd say calling it a "amateur clusterfuck" is more accurate than calling it a "greed-driven pump and dump".

[ThomasVeil]

I really can't understand your arguments.

So be it.

[TinEye]

Yeah, I don't agree. I think his "backing it fully" is PR bs to avoid making it look like he's ditching the social consensus. He refunded all PTS ever donated to I3 and plans to not make any more snapshots.

I'd say calling it a "amateur clusterfuck" is more accurate than calling it a "greed-driven pump and dump".

Good to hear, at least someone calls it how he is seeing it. The cheerleading at your forum is nauseating.

PTS price is being pumped up, wait and watch as you see how it gets dumped and destroys BTS reputation with it. You still got time to correct it, considering you are a core developer.

[chryspano]

Yeah, I don't agree. I think his "backing it fully" is PR bs to avoid making it look like he's ditching the social consensus. He refunded all PTS ever donated to I3 and plans to not make any more snapshots.

I'd say calling it a "amateur clusterfuck" is more accurate than calling it a "greed-driven pump and dump".

Good to hear, at least someone calls it how he is seeing it. The cheerleading at your forum is nauseating.

PTS price is being pumped up, wait and watch as you see how it gets dumped and destroys BTS reputation with it. You still got time to correct it, considering you are a core developer.

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=11571.0

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=11823.0

Can you understand now why PTS is "pumped"?

Can you understand why PTS will be "dumped" after those dates?

[toast]

Yeah, I don't agree. I think his "backing it fully" is PR bs to avoid making it look like he's ditching the social consensus. He refunded all PTS ever donated to I3 and plans to not make any more snapshots.

I'd say calling it a "amateur clusterfuck" is more accurate than calling it a "greed-driven pump and dump".

Good to hear, at least someone calls it how he is seeing it. The cheerleading at your forum is nauseating.

PTS price is being pumped up, wait and watch as you see how it gets dumped and destroys BTS reputation with it. You still got time to correct it, considering you are a core developer.

PTS price going up and down is its *function*. When it goes down, you also get some other stake. Right now it is being "pumped" because of Rand Paul coin and Sparkle. Any damage to reputation has been done the last 4 or 5 times it was dumped for a snapshot. Now if you have complaints direct it at RPC and sparkle devs, not BTS team. What do you want me to do, say I think those coins are worthless?

I asked them to stick with "protoshares" branding but that's it.

[brekyrself]

Anyone still wondering what BitShares is, please read this transcript of a LetsTalkBitcoin interview with BTS dev Dan Larimer.  This should help clarify any misconceptions.

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=12040.0