Decentrally mined currency has failed so far

[UnunoctiumTesticles]

...how decentralised mining is broke.. but then talk about centralised mining...

If decentralization is broken, then what is it? Duh! (centralization) Semantics is apparently another of your strong capabilities.

When the thesis is broken it is its antithesis.

so which is it regulations hurt the big centralised mining farms and exchanges. or regulations cant stop decentralised exchanges and microfarms

I am precisely talking about how to enable decentralization to work. You are fighting against by asserting that the broken aspects in the Bitcoin protocol and the available broken anonymization technology is sufficient.

1a. i do fast on-chain transactions and trades everyday..

Do you mean 0-confirmation transactions? And exactly how will you protect yourself against a government driven double-spend attack against those providers who accept 0-confirmations?

so do hundreds of thousands of others. much much faster then the centralised banking system that can take upto 3-5 days.

If you are referring to 10-30 minutes transactions I experienced with Localbitcoins and Bitpay, then sorry that is not fast enough to win the market. People will prefer to use off chain for immediacy (and consistency of the delay).

I lost entire fucking afternoons registering domains with Bitcoin. Sucks! Twiddling my thumbs. Add Tor to the mix over a slow 3G dongle for anonymity and I blew out entire days of what would normally take me 2 minutes to accomplish.

Fuck that! People will use off chain and they are in increasing numbers.

1b. AMLKYC is only for fiat based transactions. EG exchanges that only do crypto (not fiat) dont need amlkyc.

Because you say so? You will eat those foolish words.

2. bitcoin doesnt need ring signatures, there are plenty of ways to move funds without anything more than bitcoin-core. put short, move funds to a different address and if anyone asks tell people you gave it to dick, jane and harry. then move funds again into new addresses. bitcoin doesnt need anything new. just human choice on how they reveal real life info to a bitcoin address.

You are really foolish. Just continue with that nonsense. You are not anonymous even you imagine you are. I am not going to bother to explain to you how that is de-anonymized. It is a homework assignment for you.

3. PoW algorithm is not out of reach. infact out of 7 billion people we still have not even got to 1 million people

The point (since you can't read) is I wrote they can't "download the client and mine". A CPU is useless. You have no marketing sense to understand how a CPU coin can involve millions in instant gratification. But they need something to spend it on, otherwise there is no reason for them to. If you want decentralization, you must have the users mining, not just using it via Paypal and Coinbase.

And yes I know that every algorithm can be put on an ASIC. And I have a solution for that.

Bitcoin has no hope of achieving that. Absolutely zero chance.

to even try yet. so you are trying to cook the gg before its even been laid. just wait until the top 50 organisations take bitcoin on, you will see that instead of maybe 5 big players, you will see 50+ big players and each of those will separately have ways to allow their smaller clients to get their share. thus making decentralisation stronger, not weaker.

Nonsense again. None of the users will be mining. They will all be sheeple and thus easy to fold into regulation.

i can easily set up a mining farm in japan, a mining farm in europe and one in australia i can then either keep them as separate entities and mine separate to each other, or combine the hashpower to point to one server IP
with that said. that one location is just a pool manager software tool on a single server that receives all information from around the world. thus if the authorities track my IP and it happen to be in new york for instance.. all they will find is a server.. they shut down the server and all my rigs across the world hop over to another server in seconds and continue mining.

Again you don't see your logic error! I am so tired of talking to you. You don't even think things out before you write.

I guess you don't understand that without anonymity of IP, then the IP connection from the source server at the physical location of the mining farm is also seen by the authorities as connecting to the server in NY. You can't hide from the national security agencies just because your physical farm is in Japan or wherever.
 

i do not need the bitcoin-core devs to change a thing.

Because you are a good follower member of the sheeple.

[UnunoctiumTesticles]

Who is "They?" America? Russia?, China? Will they all submit to your imaginary authority?

All of the above. They already submit to the structure of the powers-that-be versus the people. That is the modus operandi of government.

Of course many of you will think this is crazy, until it is too late already and then it is evident. So then in depression and realizing you are fucked and have no way out, you take your Fukitol pill and be a zombie.

[UnunoctiumTesticles]

Oblivious shares mean that the block contents are not disclosed to the hasher. The hasher may be working on a malicious branch of the chain without even knowing about it. They may even be crushing start-up alt-coins, or embeding prayers in the block-chain.

I believe oblivious shares can be implemented using a public hash of the block data. The secret can be independent of the compilation of the contents of the block.

As I understand it, the secret can be an arbitrary length: that is the whole point of a hash function.
With oblivious shares, block manipulations possible with getblocktemplate are impossible: since a hashed header implies a read-only block.

Wait I will dig up the math to be sure. I will go eat first outside, reply when I return.

[cbeast]

Who is "They?" America? Russia?, China? Will they all submit to your imaginary authority?

All of the above. They already submit to the structure of the powers-that-be versus the people. That is the modus operandi of government.

Of course many of you will think this is crazy, until it is too late already and then it is evident. So then in depression and realizing you are fucked and have no way out, you take your Fukitol pill and be a zombie.

Did you hang out with Art Bell when he lived in the Philippines?

[turvarya]

I have stopped reading after a while.
I just have one question:
If governments can regulate everything, why is https://thepiratebay.se/ still there?

I had already answered you before you wrote that, but you stopped reading so that means your laziness caused you to miss an important detail as follows.

You are making the same category error in your comparison as Holliday did (erroneously equating two orthogonal categories). Please refer to my reply to him, wherein I pointed out that the government can not centralize actions (e.g. growing marijuana) people can do independently.

Whereas, money is inherently a centralized concept, because we all need a ledger that we can agree is the record of who paid what to whom. Thus individuals can't ignore government regulations acting independently with their Bitcoin if the authorities can find the mining pools (and thus the government can regulate the mining pools, i.e. the servers control which transactions are put on the block chain).

The only way you can stop the government from having this power, is to hide the mining pools so the government can't find them (the servers).

It doesn't amaze me that n00bs can repeat the same category error over and over again, completely failing to establish the logic firmly in their mind. This is the difference between a very high caliber computer programmer and normal folks. To be a very good computer programmer, you need to have very well developed logic skills.

So don't you see? That piratebay is a paradigm that doesn't depend on a centralized resource, thus it is "whackamole" in that the authorities can whack one instance but other instances can pop up any where in the world spontaneously.

Whereas, crypto-currency depends on the the consensus of 50% of the hashrate. Thus if the majority of the users follow the edicts of the government and transact through the government approved mining pools, then the spontaneous instances of decentralized mining pools are impotent.

You don't understand that the government is expert at social engineering, otherwise it wouldn't exist. Social engineering is the definition of a politician.

Remember money is always a consensus paradigm. Don't forget that crucial distinction!

http://armstrongeconomics.com/2014/11/30/swiss-vote-on-gold-anti-immigration-today/

How are mining pools not a whackamole-game?
I don't get, why so many people are talking about pools, like they actually have the hashrate. They just don't. Like a site, like ThePirateBay doesn't have the files on their servers, but the files are om individual PC around the world, the hashrate is not on a pool, but on individual PCs/Asic around the world.
You just assume, that people would stay on a government controlled pool, but there is just no reason, why they should.

[UnunoctiumTesticles]

How are mining pools not a whackamole-game?
I don't get, why so many people are talking about pools, like they actually have the hashrate. They just don't. Like a site, like ThePirateBay doesn't have the files on their servers, but the files are om individual PC around the world, the hashrate is not on a pool, but on individual PCs/Asic around the world.
You just assume, that people would stay on a government controlled pool, but there is just no reason, why they should.

Try rereading the posts where we talk about confiscation of mining equipment if it isn't used to mine on the approved pools and if there is not adequate IP anonymization to hide your mining equipment.

What happens when you as a citizen try to avoid AML and KYC laws? Have you reviewed the penalties for money laundering?

Don't expect the government to be reasonable. Review some of the crazy Civil Forfeiture seizures. The powers-that-be were really wicked. They let the police keep the seized goods, thus police have become corrupted and it is like a drug. They now need more and more seizures to feed all the additional expenditures they've scheduled due to the increase in income from seizures.

The powers-that-be will incentivize the authorities all over the world to become thieves.

This is the sort of decadence that was the demise of Western Rome and every other empire. We should expect to see massive corruption at the top of the world's largest ever global debt bubble.

Even ignorance is at all time high. If you guys are not awake, do you really think the masses are waking up? No! They are just getting restless. But they have no clue how and what to really be restless against. Their angst will be directed by the powers-that-be. It is always like this. Even the French Revolution ended up supporting the authoritarian outcome of Napoleon. People can't lead themselves and they can't be decentralized. Never.

Stop with your silly "decentralization is a magic cure for human nature" and franky1's "decentralization implements itself spontaneously out of thin air so relax no changes please" fantasies. The best we can hope for is a benevolent leader. And a modicum of useful decentralization such that killing the leader doesn't destroy the positive technological advance.

Great technological advance never comes from a group. It comes from leadership and individual innovation. However, great leaders can sometimes work together, or they can work with great sidekicks. And group feedback and input is always useful. And the group is good at spotting outliers such as bugs and missed cases, i.e. groups (open source) are (is) very useful for refinement.

[turvarya]

How are mining pools not a whackamole-game?
I don't get, why so many people are talking about pools, like they actually have the hashrate. They just don't. Like a site, like ThePirateBay doesn't have the files on their servers, but the files are om individual PC around the world, the hashrate is not on a pool, but on individual PCs/Asic around the world.
You just assume, that people would stay on a government controlled pool, but there is just no reason, why they should.

Try rereading the posts where we talk about confiscation of mining equipment if it isn't used to mine on the approved pools and if there is not adequate IP anonymization to hide your mining equipment.

What happens when you as a citizen try to avoid AML and KYC laws? Have you reviewed the penalties for money laundering?

Don't expect the government to be reasonable. Review some of the crazy Civil Forfeiture seizures. The powers-that-be were really wicked. They let the police keep the seized goods, thus police have become corrupted and it is like a drug. They now need more and more seizures to feed all the additional expenditures they've scheduled due to the increase in income from seizures.

The powers-that-be will incentivize the authorities all over the world to become thieves.

This is the sort of decadence that was the demise of Western Rome and every other empire. We should expect to see massive corruption at the top of the world's largest ever global debt bubble.

Even ignorance is at all time high. If you guys are not awake, do you really think the masses are waking up? No! They are just getting restless. But they have no clue how and what to really be restless against. Their angst will be directed by the powers-that-be. It is always like this. Even the French Revolution ended up supporting the authoritarian outcome of Napoleon. People can't lead themselves and they can't be decentralized. Never.

And again there is this big assumption, that nobody can anonymize their IP.
There is also that big assumption, that "they" can confiscate equipment everywhere.
There is the assumption that "they" can forbid mining outside of regulated pools everywhere on this planet.
Is there even any evidence, that "they" are trying that?

And how is it not ignorant to take examples from the USA and just assume they will happen everywhere else.
Show me the examples of "crazy Civil Forfeiture seizures" in the EU.

[UnunoctiumTesticles]

And again there is this big assumption, that nobody can anonymize their IP.

It is not an assumption. It is a well researched fact that there is no adequate IP anonymization available to your average person that will reasonable to use. Of course you can sometimes be anonymous by finding a Wifi that doesn't know you identity (and hope there is not a hidden cam around catching your face or license plate and hope your car or cell phone isn't tracking you), but this is certainly not a reasonable option for running a mining rig (and certainly not an ASIC farm!), and not even reasonable for sending txs, because I've tried that. It is so fucking inconvenient that you end up making mistakes or saying "fuck it".

I warned for a long time that Tor is subject to Sybil attack and also timing analysis. Now this is being confirmed.

And if you have a large ASIC farm, you are not going to risk your investment on stupid hair brained, half-ass anonymity experiments. If the government has shown it is serious, you are going to comply. The few rogue cowboys will be hunted down to show everyone they better not dare risk it.

Kim Dotcom didn't really break any laws, so he can't be extradited. Try breaking some AML and KYC laws and see how fast New Zealand will jail your ass.  Because if government gives up its power over money any where, they lose their authority to tax and govern and exist.

There is also that big assumption, that "they" can confiscate equipment everywhere.

They got AML and KYC laws (and underwear patdown, shoes off through the Xray searches) implemented every where. I lived in the Philippines since the 1990s, and they never asked for an ID for sending cash money remittances, now I need 3 fucking ids just turn on internet connection or cable TV.

What the hell is wrong with being paranoid and safe now rather than "too late and screwed" later?

There is the assumption that "they" can forbid mining outside of regulated pools everywhere on this planet.
Is there even any evidence, that "they" are trying that?

You'd have to be fucking blind to not see it.

But frogs boil in the pot if the heat is turned up slowly enough. So don't feel bad, you won't even realize what happened to you.

And how is it not ignorant to take examples from the USA and just assume they will happen everywhere else.
Show me the examples of "crazy Civil Forfeiture seizures" in the EU.

How ignorant is it to be ignorant of repeating history and how this shit goes down every damn time?

Have you Europeans forgotten what a hell in an authoritarian megadeath handbasket your place was the last time your socialism peaked and collapsed into hell?

P.S. Hollande didn't call for the nationalization of the internet and taxing bandwidth. His party wasn't recently elected with 75% of the vote. Obama didn't follow with hiding behind net neutrality bullshit so he can tax the internet and control the ISPs as a public utilities under the FCC. Obama hasn't received a lot of support on this forum for that. Nevermind the delusional rants, just carry on on your lilypad on the other side of the pond.

[UnunoctiumTesticles]

turvarya, are you not aware of all the seizures of cash and gold of Europeans crossing borders?

[turvarya]

And again there is this big assumption, that nobody can anonymize their IP.

It is not an assumption. It is a well researched fact that there is no adequate IP anonymization available to your average person that will reasonable to use. Of course you can sometimes be anonymous by finding a Wifi that doesn't know you identity, but this is certainly not a reasonable option for running a mining rig, and not even reasonable for sending txs, because I've tried that. It is so fucking inconvenient that you end up making mistakes or saying "fuck it".

I warned for a long time that Tor is subject to Sybil attack and also timing analysis. Now this is being confirmed.

There is also that big assumption, that "they" can confiscate equipment everywhere.

They got AML and KYC laws (and underwear patdown, shoes off through the Xray searches) implemented every where. I lived in the Philippines since the 1990s, and they never asked for an ID for sending cash money remittances, now I need 3 fucking ids just turn on internet connection or cable TV.

What the hell is wrong with being paranoid and safe now rather than "too late and screwed" later?

There is the assumption that "they" can forbid mining outside of regulated pools everywhere on this planet.
Is there even any evidence, that "they" are trying that?

You'd have to be fucking blind to not see it.

But frogs boil in the pot if the heat is turned up slowly enough. So don't feel bad, you won't even realize what happened to you.

And how is it not ignorant to take examples from the USA and just assume they will happen everywhere else.
Show me the examples of "crazy Civil Forfeiture seizures" in the EU.

How ignorant is it to be ignorant of repeating history and how this shit goes down every damn time?

Have you Europeans forgotten what a hell in an authoritarian megadeath handbasket your place was the last time your socialism peaked and collapsed into hell?

P.S. Hollande didn't call for the nationalization of the internet and taxing bandwidth. Obama didn't follow with hiding behind net neutrality bullshit so he can tax the internet and control the ISPs as a public utilities under the FCC. Nevermind the delusional rants, just carry on on your lilypad on the other side of the pond.

You just showed pretty well, what a arrogant US-American you are.
What is "the last time your socialism peaked and collapsed into hell" even supposed to mean? I mean seriously, US-education on history isn't really known for being accurate about things that happened outside of US.
But sure, believe that your country is all-powerfull and can force whatever they want on everybody, because your country is doing so damn well.

[turvarya]

turvarya, are you not aware of all the seizures of cash and gold of Europeans crossing borders?

So, if I want to cross borders with mining equipment it will get seized?

[UnunoctiumTesticles]

One more reason if you have a large ASIC rig you will mine on the approved pools because that is where the most transactions and revenue will be, because the sheeple will surely follow the government edicts.

[turvarya]

One more reason if you have a large ASIC rig you will mine on the approved pools because that is where the most transactions and revenue will be, because the sheeple will surely follow the government edicts.

Which governments edict? US-government?
You just don't get, that there isn't just one government, do you?

[cbeast]

One more reason if you have a large ASIC rig you will mine on the approved pools because that is where the most transactions and revenue will be, because the sheeple will surely follow the government edicts.

Where will the gubbermint get the bitcoins to enforce these laws? You think soldiers will work for dollars? I think you have it the other way around. Perhaps it will be miners that take the place of central banks in deciding financial policies. I doubt either extreme is likely.

[UnunoctiumTesticles]

What you may not appreciate is that if the USA withholds its internet and interconnection backbones to which it has control or can assert control, then the same as when the USA threatens foreign banks that it will withhold transfers, these foreign entities are forced by market realities to adhere to USA edicts.

This is why 77,000 firms abroad willingly agreed to comply with FATCA.

So if you have some fantasy about being able to avoid the long-arm of the reach of the USA control, I don't know on what precedent you base it?

I hope you are aware of recent news that the NSA taps all the international backbones. What country wants to be shut off from the rest of the internet? Brazil is building an undersea cable to Portugal. And how long do you think it would take for the USA military to destroy that cable when the hot wars begin? I bet they can find a way to blame it on Russia or terrorists, as they did to the airline that was shot down over Ukraine.

Again I remind you that European authorities were involved in the recent crackdown on Tor hidden services:

[cbeast]

What you may not appreciate is that if the USA withholds its internet and interconnection backbones to which it has control or can assert control, then the same as when the USA threatens foreign banks that it will withhold transfers, these foreign entities are forced by market realities to adhere to USA edicts.

This is why 77,000 firms abroad willingly agreed to comply with FATCA.

So if you have some fantasy about being able to avoid the long-arm of the reach of the USA control, I don't know on what precedent you base it?

Again I remind you that European authorities were involved in the recent crackdown on Tor hidden services

Exactly what government department owns the internet cables?

[UnunoctiumTesticles]

Exactly what government department owns the internet cables?

Exactly which government department owns the airports and airlines?

There are no TSA and body cavity searches for infants and grandmas. It is just a delusion.

Fuck the powers-that-be could defaecate in your face, fuck you in your ass, and you'd still be protecting your investment in Bitcoin. Amazing how investments can make you stupid.

It is the same myopia that infected the gold bugs. They argued all the way down from $1700 to $1150 with Armstrong's prediction. And they still persist. They need a good ass whipping before they will capitulate.

[cbeast]

Exactly what government department owns the internet cables?

Exactly what government department owns the airports and airlines?

There are no TSA and body cavity searches for infants and grandmas. It is just a delusion.

Fuck the powers-that-be could defaecate in your face, fuck you in your ass, and you'd still be protecting your investment in Bitcoin. Amazing how investments can make you stupid.

Backbones are owned by private interests. Those private interests could ask for protection from aggressive authorities in exchange for the privileges the aggressive authority once had. That aggressive authority would then be committing an act of war to continue its aggression.

[UnunoctiumTesticles]

turvarya, are you not aware of all the seizures of cash and gold of Europeans crossing borders?

So, if I want to cross borders with mining equipment it will get seized?

One more reason if you have a large ASIC rig you will mine on the approved pools because that is where the most transactions and revenue will be, because the sheeple will surely follow the government edicts.

Which governments edict? US-government?
You just don't get, that there isn't just one government, do you?

I think you should continue in your ignorant bliss and category errors illogic. And I should not try to wake up a sheep.

And all because you invested in Bitcoin and lost a lot of money and need the price to go up. Sigh. Therefore you resist any attempt to say the protocol needs improvement.

Thanks for confirming to me that the powers-that-be have no significant resistance.

You enjoy moving the goal posts. Does that help you?

Being disingenuous can only serve to fool yourself. You asked me for any signs that the world is caving in to USA style authoritarianism. I provided it, you move the goal posts to something other than what you asked me to do.

Yes the mining equipment being used to avoid regulations will be seized when the time is ripe. But by then it will be much too late for you. I warned about Tor in mid-2013, then in late 2014 so many hidden services were busted.

Ditto will happen again on my warnings.

[UnunoctiumTesticles]

One more reason if you have a large ASIC rig you will mine on the approved pools because that is where the most transactions and revenue will be, because the sheeple will surely follow the government edicts.

Where will the gubbermint get the bitcoins to enforce these laws? You think soldiers will work for dollars? I think you have it the other way around. Perhaps it will be miners that take the place of central banks in deciding financial policies. I doubt either extreme is likely.

Exactly what government department owns the internet cables?

Exactly what government department owns the airports and airlines?

There are no TSA and body cavity searches for infants and grandmas. It is just a delusion.

Fuck the powers-that-be could defaecate in your face, fuck you in your ass, and you'd still be protecting your investment in Bitcoin. Amazing how investments can make you stupid.

Backbones are owned by private interests. Those private interests could ask for protection from aggressive authorities in exchange for the privileges the aggressive authority once had. That aggressive authority would then be committing an act of war to continue its aggression.

Talk about delusion. Geez. You are really far out in fantasy land. Good luck.

You really believe that nonsense that Bitcoin will take over as the only currency. This is the mentality of an insane goldbug.