Proposal to Fork Mastercoin and Burn a portion of JR's immense stash.

[Nxtblg]

Keep in mind too that forking off and killing somebody's stash sets a very dangerous precedent. You all may end up being marked forever as the ones who opened this particular door.

I would strongly advise against it for the sake of the entire Crypto space.

FYI, that precedent has already been set by Québecoin: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=708702.0

Granted that the invalidated coins were not part of the dev's personal holdings - they were earmarked for a five-stage airdrop - but there was some suspicion on that count.   

[JohnnyBTCSeed]

crazy_rabbit thank you for bringing this up.

I kinda feel lied to by the mastercoin people. At the beginning there was much talk about things like decentralized markets, and many other wonderful features.

In fact mastercoin was to ALWAYS have the advantage over any technology as they had the first mover advantage and the WILL to change and absorb new things the competitors are doing. But the problem lies in not what they say but what they do.

JR you and the Foundation should be fired for how you have treated the protocol.


I see the only alternative we have is to jump ship by burning our mastercoins/maidsafe to another chain. This way we leave JRs coins alone to play by themsleves. And to prevent JR from jumping with, we simply ban his coins addresses.

Then maybe when serious people like CIYAM bring serious proposals they don't get ignored because JR got his feelings hurt at bitcointalk.

[JohnnyBTCSeed]

I think the original problem was that they immediately had to setup the foundation and create all this bureaucratic bullshit when they should have been a small nimble coding attack force. The mastercoin foundation is too SLOW whereas Robby's team is fast and nimble.

The thing is, I really cared about this project. I never sold any of my exodus coins. In fact I don't give a damn if they go to zero. However, I'd like to avoid that if at all possible, but I am prepared to see them go to zero.

I think we holders of mastercoin and maidsafe collectively have power. If we choose to mass leave then JR and those left can play by themselves. So what options would a mass exodus of coin burning have?

1. We could pull a "reverse fork" (made that up) and burn our coins to an exact copy without JR
-a NEW Mastercoin 2.0

2. We could convince JR or force through threat of burning our coins and leaving, to significantly reduce his own stash by self burning them to a more reasonable level.

3. We burn to a counterparty clone.

4. We burn to a new (uncreated) bitcoin 2.0 platform

5. We just leave and let mastercoin die and fade to oblivioin, and accept the losses.

[crazy_rabbit]

I think best if Maidsafe give for shareholders possibility burn Maidsafe coins and get it back in Counterparty. I think can have Maidsafe in both platform  (different asset name in Counterparty)? Create same amount coins under Counterparty same time when users burn their mastercoin from address where they own privatekey and send Counterparty asset back.. (maybe manual process is only way, but if owners want that then i think it is best option) If over half of owners vote and move to Counterparty then you know what to do with own holdings... I own all msc, xcp and maidsafe and when following all projects its look like there is two parties who can be really happy together same time one continue making quiet dead Sry english hope can understand my point... 

Create some counterparty asset and burn msc for it ? Is that a joke ?   MSC's market cap is currently at 4500BTC   what would hold it's value over counterparty? (nothing..)

I mean burn Maidsafe coins and give same amount NewMaidsafe coins under counterparty.

You are forgetting that Maidsafe has a decent amount of Mastercoins, I don't think they would just throw them away if they move to CP..

But at the same time- they are as worthless as ever, and if Mastercoin dies, they have a pretty big liability on their hands anyway. They would be better off moving forward with what BTC they have and writing off the MSC coins. At the moment any possible value of MSC is basically propped up on the potential of their project.

[crazy_rabbit]

I think the original problem was that they immediately had to setup the foundation and create all this bureaucratic bullshit when they should have been a small nimble coding attack force. The mastercoin foundation is too SLOW whereas Robby's team is fast and nimble.

The thing is, I really cared about this project. I never sold any of my exodus coins. In fact I don't give a damn if they go to zero. However, I'd like to avoid that if at all possible, but I am prepared to see them go to zero.

I think we holders of mastercoin and maidsafe collectively have power. If we choose to mass leave then JR and those left can play by themselves. So what options would a mass exodus of coin burning have?

1. We could pull a "reverse fork" (made that up) and burn our coins to an exact copy without JR
-a NEW Mastercoin 2.0

This was my initial thought.

2. We could convince JR or force through threat of burning our coins and leaving, to significantly reduce his own stash by self burning them to a more reasonable level.

This could also be a compromise, although I'm not sure if it would re-ignite a community enough to get people back onboard, or pull new people in. We could potentially sell this coins in a new crowdsale where the money raised would not go to JR or the existing foundation. But then of course....who does the money go to? That's a box of snakes for sure.

3. We burn to a counterparty clone.

It would be interesting to know if Counterparty would have us. They added the Ethereum code, why not mastercoin?

4. We burn to a new (uncreated) bitcoin 2.0 platform

I'm not personally up for that, as there's enough of these going around. Although we could 'restart' mastercoin from zero.

5. We just leave and let mastercoin die and fade to oblivioin, and accept the losses.

Well this is certainly the road we are on now, and as an original Exodus investor that would be sad to see- especially considering Maidsafe is built on Mastercoin.

[crazy_rabbit]

When you say forking do you mean to hand over the control of the project to an entirely different team ?

It's not that mastercoin is broken or something, their main problem as far as I can tell is really bad PR, and the fact that JR is bag holding and selling off his stash instead taking care of PR and building a strong community.

There were some bullshit projects published by Judith (which from what I see is the only voice mastercoin has to the public and she is just posting nonsense things like "ohh look another post by mastercoin i'm so exited".. ) , are any of them actually worth something ?  When it comes to mastercoin, I don't know if it's a new dead project or a multi-million ipo..

Ideally- members of the current 'team' could be convinced to come with us, although to be honest- I am totally in the dark about who is actually working on Mastercoin these days. Mostly everything is Judith in "biz-dev' and I gotta agree with you- some of those are some crazy bullshit projects. Some so bullshit it is embarrassing that they are even listed on the website as 'accomplishments'. You could start a lemonade stand at this point, take MSC and be listed in the "great things are happening with Mastercoin" updates.

But I don't want to be too harsh with Judith, at least she's reaching out and staying active. Or, well, keeping the lights on at least. If it wasn't for her we wouldn't hear anything from them.

[crazy_rabbit]

Another idea is we could potentially move Mastercoin to a SideChain, which might be an interesting idea.

[JohnnyBTCSeed]

***Sarcasm here******

We try and convince counterparty people to follow in the footsteps of Ripple and Bitshares

and combine the total amount of coins from CP and Mastercoin(minus jr of course)

Now with more total coins and XCP price we should see the marketcap explode higher.  It worked for ripple and bitshares..

[JohnnyBTCSeed]

By this I mean, we make a copy of counterparty and call it something else and burn to this. As I doubt counterparty wants us muddling their party.

3. We burn to a counterparty clone.

It would be interesting to know if Counterparty would have us. They added the Ethereum code, why not mastercoin?

[crazy_rabbit]

By this I mean, we make a copy of counterparty and call it something else and burn to this. As I doubt counterparty wants us muddling their party.

That's probably true, they probably won't want to be involved with us, because- why would they? The only thing we have to offer is Maidsafe, which could be quite convincing for them. Of course if it was as easy as porting MaidSafe tokens as a counterpary asset they might just convince Maidsafe to port to Counterparty and leave Mastercoin in the dust. 

It's an interesting idea to maybe just clone Counterparty, but then of course all we have done is clone an already working project....

[PhantomPhreak]

3. We burn to a counterparty clone.

It would be interesting to know if Counterparty would have us. They added the Ethereum code, why not mastercoin?

There isn't any Mastercoin code/features that could be useful to Counterparty.

[Cablez]

That's probably true, they probably won't want to be involved with us, because- why would they? The only thing we have to offer is Maidsafe, which could be quite convincing for them. Of course if it was as easy as porting MaidSafe tokens as a counterpary asset they might just convince Maidsafe to port to Counterparty and leave Mastercoin in the dust. 

This is how I see it going.  Why would CP need anything from Master, what does Master bring?...nothing.  I hate to admit it but the resuscitation of master will require much skill and funding and even then its not a guarantee.

Cloning Master onto CP may be interesting though.....

[crazy_rabbit]

That's probably true, they probably won't want to be involved with us, because- why would they? The only thing we have to offer is Maidsafe, which could be quite convincing for them. Of course if it was as easy as porting MaidSafe tokens as a counterpary asset they might just convince Maidsafe to port to Counterparty and leave Mastercoin in the dust. 

This is how I see it going.  Why would CP need anything from Master, what does Master bring?...nothing.  I hate to admit it but the resuscitation of master will require much skill and funding and even then its not a guarantee.

Cloning Master onto CP may be interesting though.....

In which case- i

3. We burn to a counterparty clone.

It would be interesting to know if Counterparty would have us. They added the Ethereum code, why not mastercoin?

There isn't any Mastercoin code/features that could be useful to Counterparty.

Well I guess that's our answer about that then. I think porting to Counterparty could be very interesting, although I'm more interested in porting our tokens from things like Maidsafe over to counterparty. It would be terrible to let the failures of Mastercoin impact projects like Maidsafe.

[hmmmstrange]

It would be very beneficial to the mastercoin community, if a board member would spill the beans on the real status of the foundation. I suspect that things are a lot worse than anyone could imagine.

[crazy_rabbit]

It would be very beneficial to the mastercoin community, if a board member would spill the beans on the real status of the foundation. I suspect that things are a lot worse than anyone could imagine.

Are there still board members?

[hmmmstrange]

It would be very beneficial to the mastercoin community, if a board member would spill the beans on the real status of the foundation. I suspect that things are a lot worse than anyone could imagine.

Are there still board members?

If there is a foundation, there are board members.

Dissolving the "non profit" foundation is going to be a pain in the ass, particularity with the issue of the exodus private key. You can't just transfer the asset to a private entity, it has to be transferred to another non profit, from my understanding. The exodus key has future value due to the dev msc it controls and the dust it collects on each transaction. To compensate an individual with the exodus private key would be asking for a lawsuit.

They could always make the exodus key public.

edit: I'm pretty sure JR is the only one holding the private key. This almost guarantees the end of the exodus address as no new foundation would have JR on the board. A new foundation sharing the private key with JR is not going to happen. I'm convinced a fork is going to happen no matter what. It's just a question of who's fork is going to win.

[mishax1]

3. We burn to a counterparty clone.

It would be interesting to know if Counterparty would have us. They added the Ethereum code, why not mastercoin?

There isn't any Mastercoin code/features that could be useful to Counterparty.

You just shot msc holders in the knee.  

I don't think that's what crazy_rabbit meant when he said "Do you think you could contribute over in the thread?"    (although, I have to admit, this was a great contribution to where this thread is going...)

[hmmmstrange]

As to forking and deleting JR's remaining coins:
(these numbers are rough)

He purchased 140,000 coins, of which 40k were bonus coins. After he stated he would not invest at the beginning to not take a large bonus. So I make the conclusion he should have only 100k.

He has sold 35k coins. So he should have 65k left.

Any fork, at the very least, should delete the equivalent of his bonus coins.

[crazy_rabbit]

3. We burn to a counterparty clone.

It would be interesting to know if Counterparty would have us. They added the Ethereum code, why not mastercoin?

There isn't any Mastercoin code/features that could be useful to Counterparty.

You just shot msc holders in the knee. 

I don't think that's what crazy_rabbit meant when he said "Do you think you could contribute over in the thread?"    (although, I have to admit, this was a great contribution to where this thread is going...)

Well if it's true, it's true. We might as well know it out loud. It certianly makes me think harder about the porting our tokens over to Counterparty idea.

[led_lcd]

3. We burn to a counterparty clone.

It would be interesting to know if Counterparty would have us. They added the Ethereum code, why not mastercoin?

There isn't any Mastercoin code/features that could be useful to Counterparty.

You just shot msc holders in the knee.  

I don't think that's what crazy_rabbit meant when he said "Do you think you could contribute over in the thread?"    (although, I have to admit, this was a great contribution to where this thread is going...)

Well if it's true, it's true. We might as well know it out loud. It certianly makes me think harder about the porting our tokens over to Counterparty idea.

Hi, this is Jeremy from Vennd. I'll stay out of the political talk and let you guys make the decisions that you need to make.

If there are any asset issuers out there who would like to move over to Counterparty, I'd be happy to assist (for free). There are a few ways in which a migration of assets from MSC could work. We could set up a vending machine which detects a burn of a MSC asset - a send to a provably unspendable address and then send the Counterparty equivalent to the burner. This is an opt-in burn. This burn period could be run for a while to allow people to withdraw funds from exchanges, etc.