One opportunity no one in Bitcoin universe talks about

[UnunoctiumTesticles]

I played around with this Bitcoin derivatives site for a while before they got shut down.

https://btct.co/

The powers-that-be are very much aware that this is the one feature they must not allow to come to crypto-currency decentralized and anonymously, because then they loose on their plan to keep all that $200 trillion trapped as the global implosion proceeds 2015.75.

[Remember remember the 5th of November]

I played around with this Bitcoin derivatives site for a while before they got shut down.

https://btct.co/

The powers-that-be are very much aware that this is the one feature they must not allow to come to crypto-currency decentralized and anonymously, because then they loose on their plan to keep all that $200 trillion trapped as the global implosion proceeds 2015.75.

You seem to love the word(s) "powers-that-be", 21s century much?

[toast]

You can short BTC in bitshares. It is a CFD backed by BTS but its effect on BTC price is still the same - someone who buys a bitBTC is someone who would have bought a BTC otherwise.

Ethereum will probably offer many more flexible BTC derivatives, but BTS is out right now.

[UnunoctiumTesticles]

You seem to love the word(s) "powers-that-be", 21s century much?

As if there are no powers that be. Why the fuck are we creating Bitcoin then?

<Insert crazy huge leap in logic with no evidence to back up the theory>

Generalization and stereotypes are great for pontification, but not of much use for reality because they falsify nothing (Hint: your OP is meaningless noise to add to the meaningless noise of those whom you criticize).

Except when you are dealing with a man who records all the data:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=365141.msg9666280#msg9666280

Notice the connection to 9/11 with a confirmation letter from the SEC to the man in prison (illegally and tortured).

Everything is a conspiracy

Rob Hustle - This is what happens when you call the cops

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlY9C6pzxKc

[jonald_fyookball]

I am clearly writing about how to move more capital into the coin without necessarily increasing the price.  

Why on God's green earth wouldn't we want the price to increase as the market cap grows?

The $200 trillion looking for a home as detailed in the article linked from the first line of the OP.

You will never scale that much capital into Bitcoin if the price has to go to $10 million. We couldn't even make past $10 billion market cap and $1000 price without bubble exhale. Excruciatingly too slow, you are talking about decades, and that capital needs a home next year.
 

As an investor in Bitcoin, I don't give a fat fiddler's fuck about central banks
and what they need to do with their money next year.

I WANT the price of Bitcoin to increase.

[Lauda]

Go kill yourself.
End of story.

[UnunoctiumTesticles]

Go kill yourself.
End of story.

That is my first death threat on this forum. I must be doing something right.

I am clearly writing about how to move more capital into the coin without necessarily increasing the price.  

Why on God's green earth wouldn't we want the price to increase as the market cap grows?

The $200 trillion looking for a home as detailed in the article linked from the first line of the OP.

You will never scale that much capital into Bitcoin if the price has to go to $10 million. We couldn't even make past $10 billion market cap and $1000 price without bubble exhale. Excruciatingly too slow, you are talking about decades, and that capital needs a home next year.
 

As an investor in Bitcoin, I don't give a fat fiddler's fuck about central banks
and what they need to do with their money next year.

I WANT the price of Bitcoin to increase.

Yeah and that is why you may lose market share to a more astute coin which understands that price isn't the only metric of success.

[jonald_fyookball]

Go kill yourself.
End of story.

That is my first death threat on this forum. I must be doing something right.

I am clearly writing about how to move more capital into the coin without necessarily increasing the price.  

Why on God's green earth wouldn't we want the price to increase as the market cap grows?

The $200 trillion looking for a home as detailed in the article linked from the first line of the OP.

You will never scale that much capital into Bitcoin if the price has to go to $10 million. We couldn't even make past $10 billion market cap and $1000 price without bubble exhale. Excruciatingly too slow, you are talking about decades, and that capital needs a home next year.
 

As an investor in Bitcoin, I don't give a fat fiddler's fuck about central banks
and what they need to do with their money next year.

I WANT the price of Bitcoin to increase.

Yeah and that is why you may lose market share to a more astute coin which understands that price isn't the only metric of success.

Derivatives are a secondary market which doesn't have to do with protocol of the coin.




 

[UnunoctiumTesticles]

I am clearly writing about how to move more capital into the coin without necessarily increasing the price.  

Why on God's green earth wouldn't we want the price to increase as the market cap grows?

The $200 trillion looking for a home as detailed in the article linked from the first line of the OP.

You will never scale that much capital into Bitcoin if the price has to go to $10 million. We couldn't even make past $10 billion market cap and $1000 price without bubble exhale. Excruciatingly too slow, you are talking about decades, and that capital needs a home next year.
 

As an investor in Bitcoin, I don't give a fat fiddler's fuck about central banks
and what they need to do with their money next year.

I WANT the price of Bitcoin to increase.

Yeah and that is why you may lose market share to a more astute coin which understands that price isn't the only metric of success.

Derivatives are a secondary market which doesn't have to do with protocol of the coin.

My idea on how to do the programmable block chain.

Hope it is not too late to get some feedback on my thoughts.

My take away from the upthread is consistent with my own analysis—centralization of pools is probably positively correlated with required computation (above some threshold).

The Ethereum applications seem important and reasonably decentralized.

https://github.com/ethereum/wiki/wiki/White-Paper#applications

So pray tell me why it isn't superior to have merge-mined chains for new contract types (as we think of them) and optimize those chains rather than a generalized VM on one block chain?

Advantages are:

• Centralization is granular per contract type.
• Mining participation is optional, thus chains can compete instead of the swallowing the universe entropy(state) = O(∞)
• Failure modes are more contained.
• Incremental development and optimization.
• Market-based instead of top-down metrics (e.g. Ethereum's gas fees) as chains compete to reward miners.

Etc.

Maybe we need to make the process of starting and publicizing a merge-mined chain easier? Do we need an app store of merged-mined chains?

P.S. Apologies in advance if one post can evaporate a $36 million market cap.

Edit: even if you did want a generalized VM for those contracts which don't have enough economy-of-scale to be their own merge-mined chain, you could make that chain merged-mined. You could make variants and let the market decide which one is the winner. Perhaps Ethereum should do this, if they are not satisfied with the Bitcoin mining structure.

[jonald_fyookball]

if its a huge opportunity, go for it! 

[Lauda]

Go kill yourself.
End of story.

That is my first death threat on this forum. I must be doing something right.

Death threat?

Death threat - A death threat is a threat, often made anonymously, by one person or a group of people to kill another person or groups of people.

Learn your vocabulary first. I've never said that I or anyone here is going to kill you or anyone for that matter.
We're just sick of the same bullshit every few days every damn week.

[seriouscoin]

Go kill yourself.
End of story.

That is my first death threat on this forum. I must be doing something right.

Death threat?

Death threat - A death threat is a threat, often made anonymously, by one person or a group of people to kill another person or groups of people.

Learn your vocabulary first. I've never said that I or anyone here is going to kill you or anyone for that matter.
We're just sick of the same bullshit every few days every damn week.

Just a typical sour grape: "did not plant it, did not get it (miss it), it must be sour", i'm actually enjoying seeing these morons coming here to tell us how shitty bitcoin is.

Dont you find it amusing when bitcoin was traded at 2 digits or below, we hardly see these morons?

[luv2drnkbr]

Also as the market cap grows,
there will naturally be more and more liquidity.

Non-sequitur to argue that something scales because it scales.

Except that's not what he did.  If the dollar price grows, it takes more dollars to proportionally move the market.  That's a fact of mathematics, not a logical error.

It also very clearly answers your original post.  Bitcoin *can* handle more money.  As more people realize the usefulness of the protocol, more people will utilize it.  In order for that added value to go into the system, since the supply is fixed, the price must rise.  It's a very easy to understand feedback loop.  The more valuable it is, the more people use it, and the higher the price goes.

Fixed supply + increased demand = higher price

It's really that simple.  Derivatives are not a way to increase liquidity.  The price already accounts for that.  If somebody *really* wants to sell, then they will be willing to take a slight hit in order to do so, which means they will sell for less than market price, which will simultaneously drive the price down as well as meet their liquidity demands.

Derivatives are players outside the market making outside bets with other outside actors about the market.  That has nothing to do with Bitcoin or its liquidity, although it might impact it substantially if the derivatives market balloons like derivatives markets always seem to do...  Derivatives en masse are one of the core problems with modern finance and banking.  They *must* necessarily cause collapse.  Because they don't actually bring value to the system.  So when one side has to pay the other -- well that value doesn't actually exist, so the REAL economy of value gets shaken up.  Obviously a real economy of sound money will survive that disturbance, since with sound money you can't just print more to pay the debt, so the debtor just has to default -- but the economy still suffers a quake, due entirely to pointless valueless speculation.

[UnunoctiumTesticles]

Go kill yourself.
End of story.

That is my first death threat on this forum. I must be doing something right.

Death threat?

Death threat - A death threat is a threat, often made anonymously, by one person or a group of people to kill another person or groups of people.

Learn your vocabulary first. I've never said that I or anyone here is going to kill you or anyone for that matter.
We're just sick of the same bullshit every few days every damn week.

It can be construed as a death threat. Be careful with your words. They can be construed as a crime.

Nobody forced you to read my words. Elevating that to wishing someone dead is insane.

[jonald_fyookball]

Also as the market cap grows,
there will naturally be more and more liquidity.

Non-sequitur to argue that something scales because it scales.

Except that's not what he did.  If the dollar price grows, it takes more dollars to proportionally move the market.  That's a fact of mathematics, not a logical error.

It also very clearly answers your original post.  Bitcoin *can* handle more money.  As more people realize the usefulness of the protocol, more people will utilize it.  In order for that added value to go into the system, since the supply is fixed, the price must rise.  It's a very easy to understand feedback loop.  The more valuable it is, the more people use it, and the higher the price goes.
 

Thank you for articulating that -- as I definitely did not have the patience to do so.

And honestly, I think OP knows this to be true,
so you have to question his motivations with these posts.

[Remember remember the 5th of November]

As if there are no powers that be. Why the fuck are we creating Bitcoin then?

I'm afraid you have not created anything. Bitcoin was made by the (pseudonym/group)Satoshi Nakamoto, we've just started using it.

[UnunoctiumTesticles]

Also as the market cap grows,
there will naturally be more and more liquidity.

Non-sequitur to argue that something scales because it scales.

Except that's not what he did.  If the dollar price grows, it takes more dollars to proportionally move the market.  That's a fact of mathematics, not a logical error.

Sorry but your math is incorrect. The price can be infinitely high and if the float is infinitely small, the amount of money to move the market higher is infinitely small.

The amount of money it takes to move the market is related to the float x market price, not price alone. Learn how markets really work.

What you forget is as I had already explained upthread the market cap is not the same as the amount of money invested:

Just $10 billion (actually much less because a market cap is greater than the actual cash invested in the asset during an all time high price, since not everyone paid the highest price)

The market cap is based on the last clearing price.

Also it is a not a scaling equation because it doesn't consider externalities. If tomorrow all the world's wealth moved into Bitcoin under the assumption that the price must rise proportionally to the relative wealth invested, this would mean that the majority of the world's population would become destitute given the power law distribution of money. This is simple math.

You simply can't have the Bitcoin asset go to $10 million (under the false conditions of that false assumption stated above) without killing several billion people.

That is why you must have derivatives if you realistically want to scale in the world's wealth.

...[blahblahblah, nonsensical blabber deleted]...

Derivatives are players outside the market making outside bets with other outside actors about the market.  That has nothing to do with Bitcoin or its liquidity,

You don't have a clue what you are talking about.

Derivatives en masse are one of the core problems with modern finance and banking.  They *must* necessarily cause collapse.  Because they don't actually bring value to the system.

You believe all the propaganda you've been fed without actually having any knowledge about how things work.

Derivatives don't cause collapse, it is corrupt banks selling derivatives rated AAA that actually contains sub-prime crap in them. It is corruption that causes collapse. It is too much leverage that causes collapse principally.  It is derivatives with leverage where all the risk is held by a too-big-to-fail single entity that causes collapse.

I was advocating derivatives with 100% margin and decentralized presumably owned by a plethora of participants.

Derivatives are absolutely essential and have been used since money was invented.

[UnunoctiumTesticles]

As if there are no powers that be. Why the fuck are we creating Bitcoin then?

I'm afraid you have not created anything.

In that logic, you haven't created anything either.

I happen to know that Bitcoin is not just a protocol, it is also a community, a market, etc..

I have contributed to both, as well contributed to the technical side of crypto-currency.


I am so tired of dealing with you Butthurt egos who have nothing more productive to do with your time than to make petty attacks on every idea for improving Bitcoin. Go fuck a Kangaroo or something consumerate with your grunt intellect and lack of amicable community spirit. Kangeroos apparently like to fistfight while making or competing for fornication, so you may find it appropriate to your style of community intercourse.

[seriouscoin]

As if there are no powers that be. Why the fuck are we creating Bitcoin then?

I'm afraid you have not created anything.

In that logic, you haven't created anything either.

I happen to know that Bitcoin is not just a protocol, it is also a community, a market, etc..

I have contributed to both, as well contributed to the technical side of crypto-currency.


I am so tired of dealing with you Butthurt egos who have nothing more productive to do with your time than to make petty attacks on every idea for improving Bitcoin. Go fuck a Kangaroo or something consumerate with your grunt intellect and lack of amicable community spirit. Kangeroos apparently like to fistfight while making or competing for fornication, so you may find it appropriate to your style of community intercourse.

Speaking from own experience i see. 
The only butthurt moron here is you.

[jonald_fyookball]

You simply can't have the Bitcoin asset go to $10 million (under the false conditions of that false assumption stated above) without killing several billion people.

That is why you must have derivatives if you realistically want to scale in the world's wealth.
 

Sounds like hyperbole...No one thinks Bitcoin will (or even should) go to $10M per coin by 2015...come on dude.