Lets talk about the altcoin section again

[Blazr]

I know this has been discussed hundreds of times, but we really do need to do something about the altcoin section. The altcoin is now biggest section on the forum and altcoin spam constantly spills over into other sections. BitcoinTalk is becoming less and less about Bitcoin, many older members are leaving because of this, I even left a few months ago and have recently returned hoping for things to be different yet its the same.

It's obvious the altcoiners are not going away any time soon and a solution is desperately needed, so here is what I propose we do:

The BitcoinTalk management builds a separate forum for the altcoin community and the existing altcoin section is migrated over there. The separate forum could be run and moderated by current altcoin section staff.

A rule be introduced and strictly enforced that bans promotion of altcoins on bitcointalk.

Once the new forum has established itself, ownership of it could be transferred away from bitcointalk to reputable altcoin forum staff members.

What do you guys think about this? I think it's the best way to get rid of the altcoiners and have discussion on BitcoinTalk actually be about Bitcoin.

[1714035754]

1714035754

[hilariousandco]

I don't see much alt coin stuff spilling into other sections and when it does it's minor and handled pretty quickly. What I like about having the alt section is at least everything is kept (largely) quarantined in there. If we didn't have it people would still post alt coin stuff here. Whilst your suggestion could work I don't think it will happen and just seems like actually creating more hassle and work for the staff to be honest.

[b!z]

I don't see much alt coin stuff spilling into other sections and when it does it's minor and handled pretty quickly. What I like about having the alt section is at least everything is kept (largely) quarantined in there. If we didn't have it people would still post alt coin stuff here. Whilst your suggestion could work I don't think it will happen and just seems like actually creating more hassle and work for the staff to be honest.

I agree. The staff do a great job of keeping bitcoin sections like the Marketplace clean.

[Hexadecibel]

I personally have always hated how we have tolerated it. Largely a cesspool of scum and villainy. They do not further Bitcoin, and they prey upon new users more often than not. Bitcoin is dangerous enough for the uninitiated, having the scam coins parked here is not helping things.

I agree with OP. I didn't throw money at this forum to support alt-coins.

[GreekBitcoin]

The problem is that serious old posters doesnt give a fuck that people are getting scammed by most altcoins for so much time.

Altcoins dont need regulation. They only need some serious members posting guidelines,thoughts, explaining etc to newbies. And it is up to them if they want to follow or not.



Personally i only want a damn 'ignore thread' button!

[theymos]

The altcoin sections are very popular, so I'd like to support them. I don't think that they do anything to hurt the other sections. If you're annoyed at how they clutter the "show unread posts since last visit" page, then you can add those boards to your ignore boards list. (I'm thinking of changing this page so that you can click a button next to each thread to ignore the board it's in.)

I'm not usually interested in altcoins myself, but I can see how people can enjoy them. Most altcoin "investing" is a lot like gambling. I can see how trying to navigate and manipulate these tiny markets could be fun for a lot of people. These pump-and-dump altcoins aren't really competitors to Bitcoin: they're really a way of using your bitcoins to gamble. There are also a handful of technologically interesting altcoins like Monero, which I think are very useful for testing new ideas that might one day be incorporated into Bitcoin.

[RiverBoatBTC]

I used to have all the altocoin forums on ignore, then I found syscoin. But the utter scams that take place in the altcoin section come to find out is HORRIBLE. Not only that when people get scammed in altcoin it gets tied to bitcon."looks bad for the community" I think they should have there own  forum and I am a active member of the syscoin community and and all 85 people in our IRC agree. We are moving away from using bitcointalk in general cause of the HUGE cesspool of scams that go on there and we do not want to be associated with it.

I get messages everyday asking me to find the guy who start poopcoin, hotdogcoin, beercoin, yadda yadda cause people follow the crowds just like they did with pirate40

[galbros]

I think the current system is a great compromise.  I appreciate having this high quality forum to be the first place I go to in order to find out about alt coins while at the same time having it clearly isolated in the alt coin area.  I think it is a good thing that veteran members can comment on altcoins if they post here if they so choose.

I like the idea of an "ignore board" button.

I like that this forum is a big tent and just don't see the spill over from the alt coin section being an issue.

[Hexadecibel]

I used to have all the altocoin forums on ignore, then I found syscoin. But the utter scams that take place in the altcoin section come to find out is HORRIBLE. Not only that when people get scammed in altcoin it gets tied to bitcon."looks bad for the community" I think they should have there own  forum and I am a active member of the syscoin community and and all 85 people in our IRC agree. We are moving away from using bitcointalk in general cause of the HUGE cesspool of scams that go on there and we do not want to be associated with it.

I get messages everyday asking me to find the guy who start poopcoin, hotdogcoin, beercoin, yadda yadda cause people follow the crowds just like they did with pirate40

Theymos is profiting in some way off alt-coin boards popularity, so any discussion in its removal will be just that. Discussion. If I knew those funds were going towards the community I wouldn't mind so much. Consider the amount of money that's been donated to these boards and what we have so far got in return though. This is the only reason why I'm a little bitter, as I wanted to support this community and Bitcoin, not those who would debase it and taint bitcoin's name and its technology.

No reasonable person could look at those boards and say it has a place here on bitcointalk.

The altcoin sections are very popular, so I'd like to support them.

What is in it for this community by supporting them? Why do you think its worth the bandwidth and risk to new users?

I don't think that they do anything to hurt the other sections.

Their mere presence here hurts the community's and bitcoin's credibility. Why should new users believe us when we tell them Bitcoin isn't a scam, but we are gladly party to alt-coins which are?

I'm not usually interested in altcoins myself, but I can see how people can enjoy them.

They're popular, so you wanted to support them I thought. That support I would figure requires active interest and a clear benefit to these forums or yourself.

Most altcoin "investing" is a lot like gambling. I can see how trying to navigate and manipulate these tiny markets could be fun for a lot of people.

Why are we even about facilitating this activity here. I could see how it could be fun for people too, but why is this an argument for keeping them around? Whats in it for the rest of us? If the alt boards are generating traffic and helping to support the site just say so.

 

These pump-and-dump altcoins aren't really competitors to Bitcoin: they're really a way of using your bitcoins to gamble. There are also a handful of technologically interesting altcoins like Monero, which I think are very useful for testing new ideas that might one day be incorporated into Bitcoin.

But naive users don't know that. They come here to learn about bitcoin and instead are blasted with a huge amount of BS they have to sift through. It makes knowledgeable users job of educating that much harder.

And any technologically interesting coin capable of succeeding doesn't need to use bitcointalk as a launch platform and should be expected to stand on their own merit...

edit: hmmm so looks like new users aren't blasted with alt-coin propaganda as much as they used to be. At least that's changed for the better since I've been gone. And apparently new forum software is coming out... honestly I didn't ever see that happening.

[waaat?]

[haha

didn't you yourself create a couple of coins? Just recently two more?

So people want alts and don't want alts but then want them again?
I don't understand. ]


cutting off the section to a new forum will lead to confusion for newbies and could cause more harm then good overall. Crypto is not just bitcoin. Developement is ongoing of course so cutting off that section makes absolutely no sense. Your view on things needs to be corrected. You see bitcoin as seperate from alts. That's not the case, why should it be?

[Blazr]

haha

didn't you yourself create a couple of coins? Just recently two more?

So people want alts and don't want alts but then want them again?
I don't understand.

Blazr2 isn't me.

[waaat?]

haha

didn't you yourself create a couple of coins? Just recently two more?

So people want alts and don't want alts but then want them again?
I don't understand.

Blazr2 isn't me.

ok. didn't know that. How come he names himself after you?

[rix5]

alts are traded against btc.
I think since we are dealing with a lot rebels here too there could be a fair risk of a large part of trades going to litecoinmarkets and others. Seperating the altforum entirely will weaken bitcoin and strengthen altcoins particularly litecoin aswell as other alts which could be potentially then the coin of choice to trade other alts against if bitcoin is perceived as arrogant and elitist.

So seperating the two risks loosing demand for btc as the coin of choice to trade against.

I could be wrong but could happen. Seperating the forum could lead to seperation of groups (which is intended) and actually will weaken bitcoin.

[iCEBREAKER]

*tedious moaning & hand-wringing*

Altcoins are the heirs to Bitcoin and are not threats but rather bolster its antifragility.

Satoshi loves his grandchildren at least as much as his first born.

Thanks for telling Theymos how to run his BBS.  I'm extremely pleased your grumbling has produced an endorsement of Monero from our gracious host!   

[BitcoinEXpress]

I agree with OP. I didn't throw money at this forum to support alt-coins.

Well then just consider it a bonus.

Seriously I understand what you are saying

But the altcoin section has grown so big killing it is not an option.

Just put the board on ignore.


~BCX~

[redsn0w]

I agree with OP. I didn't throw money at this forum to support alt-coins.

Well then just consider it a bonus.

Seriously I understand what you are saying

But the altcoin section has grown so big killing it is not an option.

Just put the board on ignore.


~BCX~

I think it is a reasonable compromise put that forum board in an "ignore mode". Altcoins are necessary to rustle up some bitcoins if someone cannot buy it (btc) directly.

[justusranvier]

If you're annoyed at how they clutter the "show unread posts since last visit" page, then you can add those boards to your ignore boards list. (I'm thinking of changing this page so that you can click a button next to each thread to ignore the board it's in.)

If you're in the mood to make changes to the forum, please consider adding an "unwatch" link to the watchlist page next to each thread.

Here's the problem I encounter:

• I configure my watchlist to automatically add all threads in Bitcoin Discussion
• People mispost crap threads in Bitcoin Discussion that quickly get moved to the correct area
• I'm still Watching the crap threads, so the watchlist is less useful than it could be
• Removing the crap threads from the watchlist means opening each one individually to access the unwatch link, so it's usually not even worth the trouble
• Therefore, it's easiest to only read and post in Cypherdoc's "Gold collapsing, Bitcoin up" thread instead rather than attempting to use any other part of the forum.

[aigeezer]

People are often tempted to dictate what other people can and cannot do. It is a temptation to be resisted.

I prefer to make my own decisions about what to view and what to ignore. I do not share OP's value judgments.
One size does not fit all, even when intentions are the best (especially when intentions are the best, imho).         

The Ignore Poster button is a wonderful thing. Extending its granularity is a welcome development.

An old joke comes to mind because it seems to fit the situation:

An old lady repeatedly phones the police to complain about the carryings-on next door that she sees from her window.
The exasperated officer taking the calls finally suggests that she just draw her curtains.
She replies "yes, but I can still see them if I peek through the corner".

[superresistant]

People are often tempted to dictate what other people can and cannot do. It is a temptation to be resisted.

This.

the big quote

It is because of comment like this that I have no hope Bitcoin will ever go mainstream.

edit: hmmm so looks like new users aren't blasted with alt-coin propaganda as much as they used to be. At least that's changed for the better since I've been gone. And apparently new forum software is coming out... honestly I didn't ever see that happening.

The altcoin scam spamming is over. Noobs has become experienced after losing money.
You can only learn by experience. The more you lose, the more you learn.
Any noob needs to get scammed at least few times before being able to identify potential scams.
It is not our job to over-protect/babysit them.

[SpanishSoldier]

People are often tempted to dictate what other people can and cannot do. It is a temptation to be resisted.

This.

+1

the big quote

It is because of comment like this that I have no hope Bitcoin will ever go mainstream.

No, Microsoft is now accepting Bitcoin. It is almost mainstream.

edit: hmmm so looks like new users aren't blasted with alt-coin propaganda as much as they used to be. At least that's changed for the better since I've been gone. And apparently new forum software is coming out... honestly I didn't ever see that happening.

The altcoin scam spamming is over. Noobs has become experienced after losing money.
You can only learn by experience. The more you lose, the more you learn.
Any noob needs to get scammed at least few times before being able to identify potential scams.
It is not our job to over-protect/babysit them.

Golden words.