ASICMiner BE300S Samples Arrived, <0.2W/G Achieved at Board Level

[valkir]

Really nice Friedcat

Wondering do you have a estimated date for the release ? 

[philipma1957]

I understand squeezing the competition.
We just witnessed the squeeze for the last 10 months.

When your next competitor is charging $342 for a product that is less efficient,  why would you price your product at $250?
I don't think there are going to be enough rounds of these chips to keep weeding out competitors before you can enjoy a little harvesting.

Maybe I misunderstood your comment.
Maybe you were just saying you could lower your pricing down to $250 and still make money.

But, please.  Cheap hashing power isn't going to do anyone any good.
Pricing war.
Difficulty into the stratosphere.
Investors make shit returns.

  In a nut shell cheap mining gear killed off LTC.  Gridseed blades were 3000 usd and ltc was 34 usd  .  gridseed blades dropped to  150 usd and ltc is 2 dollars.
If AM puts out a .33 watt 1.5th miner for  250 usd Shipped it will only serve to lower the price of BTC.
BTC diff-Price ratio is fucked up as it is.  I can not see the btc network working much longer without demand for the coins lifting price up and over the 500 dollar mark.

[windpath]

Okay 155 gh  x .27 = 42 watts   once you figure psu in  47 watts .

lets say 5x =

    775gh at 235 watts on the low clock.
  1365gh  at  576 watts on the high clock .
 this is a 120 chip design.

right now I can buy the sp20 for under 400 usd.

It will do 970gh at 450 watts

the s-5 will do 1300gh on overclock at 676 watts  cost shipped right now is 342 usd if you have a coupon.

For a 120 chip AM to be worth buying it needs to come out soon and be cheap.
  At least the board did decently (not .2 watts) more like .3 or .33 watts. 
The sp20 can do .46 via underclock.

Price of 120 chip design should be in principle at 230-250 usd w/o the PSU.

If the mid-term future Bitcoin price allows significant quantity, the end-game price can be below 200 usd.

That price would be appealing today, hate to ask the question with the impossible answer, but when will they be available?

[ujka]

There is this post, not official, and I don't know who the poster is (tutorialvideo)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=888260.msg10123817#msg10123817

The expected date of first batch is April 10 to April 30. Potential delay will be notified three months ahead.
Hashrate per device and power consumption:
  Normal mode - 1.0TH/s guaranteed. 1.6TH/s maximum. 0.25-0.27W/G.
  Turbo mode - 1.2TH/s guaranteed. 2.0TH/s maximum. 0.30-0.33W/G.

this is a update

[HarmonLi]

24 chip (6 chip chain x 4) test result posted.
The mosfets and big capacitors are safely removed due to the constant workload of BE300.



Results:

273.60GH/s | 0.38W/G
176.64GH/s | 0.31W/G
155.04GH/s | 0.27W/G
118.56GH/s | 0.26W/G

With more accurate control on the variance between chips we could in principle gain less power consumption in advance.

Good to hear this update. The power draw is still higher than single-chip solutions, but looking good, still. Any news on the expected mass delivery of first BE300-final chips?

[johnyj]

I understand squeezing the competition.
We just witnessed the squeeze for the last 10 months.

When your next competitor is charging $342 for a product that is less efficient,  why would you price your product at $250?
I don't think there are going to be enough rounds of these chips to keep weeding out competitors before you can enjoy a little harvesting.

Maybe I misunderstood your comment.
Maybe you were just saying you could lower your pricing down to $250 and still make money.

But, please.  Cheap hashing power isn't going to do anyone any good.
Pricing war.
Difficulty into the stratosphere.
Investors make shit returns.

That is what I'm worrying about, with endless price war, the one that can stand many years of loss is the one with bank loan support, so eventually banks will take over all the mining chips business

Unless the major chip makers make an alliance like OPEC, they will be take over by banks one by one, but unfortunately bitcoin is free to mine for anyone, not like OPEC countries which have geographic access limitation

In fact, knc is most likely to be already running on a large sum of bank loans, so that they can operate in a loss for at least a couple of years

[MrTeal]

 In a nut shell cheap mining gear killed off LTC.  Gridseed blades were 3000 usd and ltc was 34 usd  .  gridseed blades dropped to  150 usd and ltc is 2 dollars.
If AM puts out a .33 watt 1.5th miner for  250 usd Shipped it will only serve to lower the price of BTC.
BTC diff-Price ratio is fucked up as it is.  I can not see the btc network working much longer without demand for the coins lifting price up and over the 500 dollar mark.

There's no reason to think cheap mining gear would cause the price of BTC to go down. LTC might have gone down in price with cheap hardware, but that's more than likely a coincidence.

[btcshiner]

I for one would like to be able to get good gear at that priced shipped.  I really did not like the tube I bought and was glad that caused me to skip the prism. 
This price point with stated hashing rate and power consumption might bring me back to try another AM product. 

[MichaelBliss]

That is what I'm worrying about, with endless price war, the one that can stand many years of loss is the one with bank loan support, so eventually banks will take over all the mining chips business

Unless the major chip makers make an alliance like OPEC, they will be take over by banks one by one, but unfortunately bitcoin is free to mine for anyone, not like OPEC countries which have geographic access limitation

In fact, knc is most likely to be already running on a large sum of bank loans, so that they can operate in a loss for at least a couple of years

Banks don't lend money to unprofitable businesses.  It's not their job to support years of losses through loans and they certainly wouldn't do that for Bitcoin mining businesses - something which banks have yet to warm up to!

All of that aside, a loan is just that - it's meant to be repaid.  What mining hardware manufacturer could afford to take a couple of years of losses, with any hope of repaying them (plus interest) from future profits?

VC funding is similar in this regard; it's not there to cover losses.

[RoadStress]

That price would be appealing today, hate to ask the question with the impossible answer, but when will they be available?

April if I remember correctly!

[CanaryInTheMine]

That price would be appealing today, hate to ask the question with the impossible answer, but when will they be available?

April if I remember correctly!

Hopefully April, as depressed btc price can be a bit of an issue since factory needs to be paid in fiat

[newIndia]

I understand squeezing the competition.
We just witnessed the squeeze for the last 10 months.

When your next competitor is charging $342 for a product that is less efficient,  why would you price your product at $250?
I don't think there are going to be enough rounds of these chips to keep weeding out competitors before you can enjoy a little harvesting.

Maybe I misunderstood your comment.
Maybe you were just saying you could lower your pricing down to $250 and still make money.

But, please.  Cheap hashing power isn't going to do anyone any good.
Pricing war.
Difficulty into the stratosphere.
Investors make shit returns.

  In a nut shell cheap mining gear killed off LTC.  Gridseed blades were 3000 usd and ltc was 34 usd  .  gridseed blades dropped to  150 usd and ltc is 2 dollars.
If AM puts out a .33 watt 1.5th miner for  250 usd Shipped it will only serve to lower the price of BTC.
BTC diff-Price ratio is fucked up as it is.  I can not see the btc network working much longer without demand for the coins lifting price up and over the 500 dollar mark.

I think it is a really bad idea to compare the BTC price dynamics with LTC or any other ALT. The factors determining BTC price is much more than just difficulty or the cost of miners, which is not the case for LTC.

[bbxx]

That price would be appealing today, hate to ask the question with the impossible answer, but when will they be available?

April if I remember correctly!

Hopefully April, as depressed btc price can be a bit of an issue since factory needs to be paid in fiat

April or May

if price of btc will be <200$ this time
miners will be not sellable in large quantities
maybe for hobbist

[wpgdeez]

I understand squeezing the competition.
We just witnessed the squeeze for the last 10 months.

When your next competitor is charging $342 for a product that is less efficient,  why would you price your product at $250?
I don't think there are going to be enough rounds of these chips to keep weeding out competitors before you can enjoy a little harvesting.

Maybe I misunderstood your comment.
Maybe you were just saying you could lower your pricing down to $250 and still make money.

But, please.  Cheap hashing power isn't going to do anyone any good.
Pricing war.
Difficulty into the stratosphere.
Investors make shit returns.

  In a nut shell cheap mining gear killed off LTC.  Gridseed blades were 3000 usd and ltc was 34 usd  .  gridseed blades dropped to  150 usd and ltc is 2 dollars.
If AM puts out a .33 watt 1.5th miner for  250 usd Shipped it will only serve to lower the price of BTC.
BTC diff-Price ratio is fucked up as it is.  I can not see the btc network working much longer without demand for the coins lifting price up and over the 500 dollar mark.

Miners didn't kill the price of LTC the market did.

[Meech]

I understand squeezing the competition.
We just witnessed the squeeze for the last 10 months.

When your next competitor is charging $342 for a product that is less efficient,  why would you price your product at $250?
I don't think there are going to be enough rounds of these chips to keep weeding out competitors before you can enjoy a little harvesting.

Maybe I misunderstood your comment.
Maybe you were just saying you could lower your pricing down to $250 and still make money.

But, please.  Cheap hashing power isn't going to do anyone any good.
Pricing war.
Difficulty into the stratosphere.
Investors make shit returns.

  In a nut shell cheap mining gear killed off LTC.  Gridseed blades were 3000 usd and ltc was 34 usd  .  gridseed blades dropped to  150 usd and ltc is 2 dollars.
If AM puts out a .33 watt 1.5th miner for  250 usd Shipped it will only serve to lower the price of BTC.
BTC diff-Price ratio is fucked up as it is.  I can not see the btc network working much longer without demand for the coins lifting price up and over the 500 dollar mark.

Miners didn't kill the price of LTC the market did.

True.  Little to none adoption of Ltc is hurting its value.  But it is also designed to stay within btc ratio which it is.

[MilkyLep]

Thank you for sharing progress FC, communication from the team is always appreciated, even from the small investors, observers or the mining community.

[wpgdeez]

I understand squeezing the competition.
We just witnessed the squeeze for the last 10 months.

When your next competitor is charging $342 for a product that is less efficient,  why would you price your product at $250?
I don't think there are going to be enough rounds of these chips to keep weeding out competitors before you can enjoy a little harvesting.

Maybe I misunderstood your comment.
Maybe you were just saying you could lower your pricing down to $250 and still make money.

But, please.  Cheap hashing power isn't going to do anyone any good.
Pricing war.
Difficulty into the stratosphere.
Investors make shit returns.

  In a nut shell cheap mining gear killed off LTC.  Gridseed blades were 3000 usd and ltc was 34 usd  .  gridseed blades dropped to  150 usd and ltc is 2 dollars.
If AM puts out a .33 watt 1.5th miner for  250 usd Shipped it will only serve to lower the price of BTC.
BTC diff-Price ratio is fucked up as it is.  I can not see the btc network working much longer without demand for the coins lifting price up and over the 500 dollar mark.

Miners didn't kill the price of LTC the market did.

True.  Little to none adoption of Ltc is hurting its value.  But it is also designed to stay within btc ratio which it is.

It's not designed that way, it's just the way the whales manipulate the market.

[bones]

I am curious as to why everyone is listening to a unknown source ( tutorialvideo ) about the chip expectation dates.
Friedcat said February.  I think it better to listen to him, until confirmation of the other date.

[RoadStress]

I am curious as to why everyone is listening to a unknown source ( tutorialvideo ) about the chip expectation dates.
Friedcat said February.  I think it better to listen to him, until confirmation of the other date.

Are you another angry AM shareholder?

The mass production time of BE300 in terms of chip-out date is February to March, 2015.

If you think that AM can manage to get a whole batch in a couple of days after receiving the chips you are lying to yourself.

[johnyj]

That is what I'm worrying about, with endless price war, the one that can stand many years of loss is the one with bank loan support, so eventually banks will take over all the mining chips business

Unless the major chip makers make an alliance like OPEC, they will be take over by banks one by one, but unfortunately bitcoin is free to mine for anyone, not like OPEC countries which have geographic access limitation

In fact, knc is most likely to be already running on a large sum of bank loans, so that they can operate in a loss for at least a couple of years

Banks don't lend money to unprofitable businesses.  It's not their job to support years of losses through loans and they certainly wouldn't do that for Bitcoin mining businesses - something which banks have yet to warm up to!

All of that aside, a loan is just that - it's meant to be repaid.  What mining hardware manufacturer could afford to take a couple of years of losses, with any hope of repaying them (plus interest) from future profits?

VC funding is similar in this regard; it's not there to cover losses.

Using a loan to suppress the price in order to squeeze out the competitor is a common practice in large enterprises. They could operate years with a negative earning to drive out competitors with weak cash flow (they either take loan or have earnings in other area to cover the loss in this area, if they think it worth the effort). It is not for profit in tomorrow or next month, but for a profit in 5-10 years

From banks point of view, it is even more possible, since bitcoin is said to be their competitor. Why shouldn't they take over competitor's infrastructure using money out of thin air, and have total control over it so that it will not make trouble for them in case something went wrong?