20 years later bitcoin and goverments

[jonald_fyookball]

Bitcoin could still be 51% attacked by a government
who builds a mega mining farm.  What are the possible remedies to that? 

[jmw74]

That means make it illegal to trade btc to real money and vice versa. So if i want to buy food for example and i only have bitcoin, then i will ended up having problem. This reduces the appeal and demand. Like i said no way they can shut it down but just makes your life difficult until you give up.

It's also illegal to drive faster than the posted speed limit.

Plenty of people find ways to do it anyway while managing their risk of adverse consequences.

It will be easier to bypass laws that restrict Bitcoin usage than to bypass traffic laws - after all, censorship resistance is just a software problem.

I think that if government declares it illegal to accept bitcoin, that is the end of bitcoin in that country.  No one is going to risk prison merely to accept bitcoin. The consensus will be unsustainably small, there will be no one to trade with except a few other extreme risk takers.  It'll be like 2010 except there's far more risk and far less benefit (the price will not increase again like it did back then).  End result is bitcoin dies in that country.

It still flourishes elsewhere of course, and the iron-fist country forfeits economic growth.  The more countries that ban it, the more a lax country can benefit by allowing it. But let's not fool ourselves into thinking bitcoin can locally withstand the iron fist.

[freedomno1]

Let's say bitcoin is going well and 20 years later (pseudo, it can be even 10 years) it's about to slap in the face of dollar and euro. Indirectly, the United States and European countries.

The goverments will just sit on their soft seats? No. What can they do to finish bitcoin?

Make their own, and then differentiate their product enough to attract people to use it over Bitcoin
That said they cannot finish Bitcoin off directly due to its nature.
(Oh less internet censorship/very very strict punishments for its use)

[justusranvier]

I think that if government declares it illegal to accept bitcoin, that is the end of bitcoin in that country.  No one is going to risk prison merely to accept bitcoin. The consensus will be unsustainably small, there will be no one to trade with except a few other extreme risk takers.  It'll be like 2010 except there's far more risk and far less benefit (the price will not increase again like it did back then).  End result is bitcoin dies in that country.

It still flourishes elsewhere of course, and the iron-fist country forfeits economic growth.  The more countries that ban it, the more a lax country can benefit by allowing it. But let's not fool ourselves into thinking bitcoin can locally withstand the iron fist.

I understand that you're not willing to put in the work needed to make Bitcoin's resistance to local oppression more robust.

You're making an error when you assume that just because you're not willing to do it that nobody else is willing to do the work either.

[pereira4]

They can't "shut it down". They would have to:

1) Raid every single person using Bitcoin (imposible)
2) Shut down the entire internet (stupid idea)

So yeah, they can't stop it same as they can't stop people sharing p2p and they've been trying for decades now.

[CoinRocka]

Deep down the conspiracy theorist in me says they want this to happen.  The ability to track all value movements across the globe.

[jmw74]

I think that if government declares it illegal to accept bitcoin, that is the end of bitcoin in that country.  No one is going to risk prison merely to accept bitcoin. The consensus will be unsustainably small, there will be no one to trade with except a few other extreme risk takers.  It'll be like 2010 except there's far more risk and far less benefit (the price will not increase again like it did back then).  End result is bitcoin dies in that country.

It still flourishes elsewhere of course, and the iron-fist country forfeits economic growth.  The more countries that ban it, the more a lax country can benefit by allowing it. But let's not fool ourselves into thinking bitcoin can locally withstand the iron fist.

I understand that you're not willing to put in the work needed to make Bitcoin's resistance to local oppression more robust.

You're making an error when you assume that just because you're not willing to do it that nobody else is willing to do the work either.

I don't think there's anything that can be done. What did you have in mind?

Let's say a dictator declares, "anyone who accepts any currency other than the state currency is subject to arrest and 10 years in prison".

It doesn't matter what awesome crypto tech we come up with. It will never see the light of day. Law enforcement shows up at the shop, if the merchant lets anyone walk out of there without having paid in the state currency, he goes to prison.  All merchants who are not otherwise breaking the law, being rational, will not risk 10 years in prison just to bypass chargebacks and 2% fees.

Maybe you have some creative solution for this.

Granted I think this is all hypothetical, I don't expect any first-world economy to actually pass such a law. I'm just saying the technique would be effective against bitcoin.

[neurotypical]

Deep down the conspiracy theorist in me says they want this to happen.  The ability to track all value movements across the globe.

It's a very solid view. I think it could be like a an alpha version of a future digital currency (not bitcoin) like a test. It's a valid theory.
It's still better than fiat money tho lol.

[BitCoinNutJob]

They can't "shut it down". They would have to:

1) Raid every single person using Bitcoin (imposible)
2) Shut down the entire internet (stupid idea)

So yeah, they can't stop it same as they can't stop people sharing p2p and they've been trying for decades now.

I dunno, look at what happened in that film equilibrium, if people keep giving gov power we might all have to learn super kung fu to keep bitcoin alive

[justusranvier]

Let's say a dictator declares, "anyone who accepts any currency other than the state currency is subject to arrest and 10 years in prison".

It doesn't matter what awesome crypto tech we come up with. It will never see the light of day. Law enforcement shows up at the shop, if the merchant lets anyone walk out of there without having paid in the state currency, he goes to prison.  All merchants who are not otherwise breaking the law, being rational, will not risk 10 years in prison just to bypass chargebacks and 2% fees.

Can I ask in which country you live, and which ones you've visited?

The reason I ask is because in my (admittedly limited) experience outside the G7, what I've observed is that as regimes become more dictatorial the willingness of the population to find creative solutions for bypassing the dictates increases along with the totalitarianism.

It's not a concept that people who have lived in relatively free countries would be familiar with, and it's something that it's easier to understand after having witnessed it.

[jmw74]

Let's say a dictator declares, "anyone who accepts any currency other than the state currency is subject to arrest and 10 years in prison".

It doesn't matter what awesome crypto tech we come up with. It will never see the light of day. Law enforcement shows up at the shop, if the merchant lets anyone walk out of there without having paid in the state currency, he goes to prison.  All merchants who are not otherwise breaking the law, being rational, will not risk 10 years in prison just to bypass chargebacks and 2% fees.

Can I ask in which country you live, and which ones you've visited?

The reason I ask is because in my (admittedly limited) experience outside the G7, what I've observed is that as regimes become more dictatorial the willingness of the population to find creative solutions for bypassing the dictates increases along with the totalitarianism.

It's not a concept that people who have lived in relatively free countries would be familiar with, and it's something that it's easier to understand after having witnessed it.

I don't disagree with you here.

There probably aren't many places where the necessary conditions exist.  There has to be both a relatively good state-run system, and a government that can make quick and arbitrary threats of violence.

First world countries can't just arbitrarily declare 10 year prison sentences for anything (eg eating a banana).  And dictatorships usually have terrible state-run systems where the motive for people to risk prison is fairly high.