RE: "The root causes of mental illness."

[EmanuelDeOrtego]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=88958.0

the joint, cbeast, your sophomoric interpretations of human pain and suffering are so disconnected from what people with mental illness actually experience, that it's enraging if not totally isolating.

I, myself, live many of my days in agony and its not because I am so totally belligerent and stubborn that I can't do any better but because of biological and environmental factors that I have yet to quantify. Factors, that you gentlemen have yet to quantify.

Now, I have no way to prove anything to you because I am only my own perception.

You are only your own perception. No brain digging and psycho-analysis can change that. Get that through your institutionalized, college-educated skulls.

Your "education" you call a degree won't change this.

No amount of hugs and free shit is going to solve my problem or anybody elses. The human condition sometimes sucks for people and it will likely remain that way and its a beautiful thing: It encourages evolution and experimentation in our affairs.

Now, what I suffer through is quite minor. Sure things look like living hell a good amount of the time but I have met people who see and hear demons day and night. Who feel like crying themselves to death a good amount of the time. I've heard and seen people experience visions that no one should suffer through.

Now, I am talking about a close person in my life. She doesn't suffer because people have failed her or that she is failing herself: Her condition just sucks.

I fortunately came to her as a person that didn't try to fix her and control her. I accepted her as she is.

You should try the same with people.

In essence, I'm sick of your authoritarian position on my affairs and the affairs of others. I'm sick of you saying you knows whats best and that you know how to live my life.

I only know what I feel and how I live.

You are entitled to take care of your own damn self. Do that first and then try to treat others.

You're not god. You're not special. You're not a messiah. You're just another man.

You're not virtuous enough nor wise enough to control me or anybody else.

That is all.

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[kokjo]

welcome back from the dead, Atlas.

[EmanuelDeOrtego]

Cbeast:

I love the term mental illness. It sells a lot of books. Personally, I don't believe it exists. What we perceive as depression, delusion, ADD (bullshit), schizophrenia (most diagnoses are inconclusive), etc. is nothing but our inability to cope with our own weaknesses in helping each other.

Smoke you, you blind bigot.

The suffering I've seen from delusions and hallucinations can not be simply faked. To deny its existence is to admit you have no regard for these people, which I will not question.

[kokjo]

Cbeast:

I love the term mental illness. It sells a lot of books. Personally, I don't believe it exists. What we perceive as depression, delusion, ADD (bullshit), schizophrenia (most diagnoses are inconclusive), etc. is nothing but our inability to cope with our own weaknesses in helping each other.

Smoke you, you blind bigot.

The suffering I've seen from delusions and hallucinations can not be simply faked. To deny its existence is to admit you have no regard for these people, which I will not question.

he did not say faking. only that your delusions happen because you can't cope. he just rejects the term "mental illness", and replaces it with "inability to cope".

now please fuck off this forum, you are useless, and nobody likes you here. if what you have postulated in a lot of other threads(that you are a grate guy IRL), you don't need this forum to like you either.

[EmanuelDeOrtego]

Cbeast:

I love the term mental illness. It sells a lot of books. Personally, I don't believe it exists. What we perceive as depression, delusion, ADD (bullshit), schizophrenia (most diagnoses are inconclusive), etc. is nothing but our inability to cope with our own weaknesses in helping each other.

Smoke you, you blind bigot.

The suffering I've seen from delusions and hallucinations can not be simply faked. To deny its existence is to admit you have no regard for these people, which I will not question.

he did not say faking. only that your delusions happen because you can't cope. he just rejects the term "mental illness", and replaces it with "inability to cope".

now please fuck off this forum, you are useless, and nobody likes you here. if what you have postulated in a lot of other threads(that you are a grate guy IRL), you don't need this forum to like you either.

People cope with their delusions everyday. That does not make them disappear.

Anyways, I reject your latter opinion in its entirety.

[kokjo]

Cbeast:

I love the term mental illness. It sells a lot of books. Personally, I don't believe it exists. What we perceive as depression, delusion, ADD (bullshit), schizophrenia (most diagnoses are inconclusive), etc. is nothing but our inability to cope with our own weaknesses in helping each other.

Smoke you, you blind bigot.

The suffering I've seen from delusions and hallucinations can not be simply faked. To deny its existence is to admit you have no regard for these people, which I will not question.

he did not say faking. only that your delusions happen because you can't cope. he just rejects the term "mental illness", and replaces it with "inability to cope".

now please fuck off this forum, you are useless, and nobody likes you here. if what you have postulated in a lot of other threads(that you are a grate guy IRL), you don't need this forum to like you either.

People cope with their delusions everyday. That does not make them disappear.

Anyways, I reject your latter opinion in its entirety.

fine then, stay on the forum if you like. im going to ignore you. please continue on living your sad useless life. have a nice day.

[cbeast]

You misunderstand me. When I say "mental illness...is nothing but our inability to cope with our own weaknesses in helping each other" I mean that we are all culpable in not recognizing the needs of people failing to cope with this insane society.

I did not dismiss real organic problems, but these should not be lumped into the industry of mental illness. They are medical issues.

As far as delusions go, hey what ever gets you through the day. Just don't impose them on me by force and in return I will help you see through them to clarity.

I love you too.

[EmanuelDeOrtego]

Genuinely, you bring me pleasure as well. I value you. I admire you for who you are

Any contradiction is mere emotion.

[cbeast]

Genuinely, you bring me pleasure as well. I value you. I admire you for who you are

Any contradiction is mere emotion.

Don't knock emotion. It is the neurochemical weather cycle of our brain and nervous system.

[teflone]

DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS  

[the joint]

Atlas, for the record I was diagnosed with OCD, GAD, and I easily met the criteria for clinical depression when I was in my late-teens/early-20s.

It is by the method I outlined in my thread that I have overcome all of them.

I look for 3 things in a therapeutic approach:
1)  Is it logical?  Does it make sense?
2)  Is there scientific evidence to support the model?  Can it be tested and can the results be replicated?
3)  Do I have experiential evidence of its effectiveness?  Has it worked for me or have I seen it work for others?

This is the golden trio.  I fully believe that my model prescribed in my thread fits all 3 of these. 

[Matthew N. Wright]

Listening to Atlas is the root cause of mental illness.

[Raoul Duke]

You're mentally ill, Atlas?

No shit, Sherlock!...

[the joint]

You are only your own perception. No brain digging and psycho-analysis can change that.

What about what is self-evident?  I think it's self-evident that I observe and that I observe things that are not me.

Let's break down your sentence:

You (subject) are (2nd person 'to be') only your own perception (object).  

Identity implies stability over time.  If you "are only your perception," and if your perception changes, then accordingly your identity changes.  So, if your perception changes, how can you be the same you?

You just contradicted yourself.

[EmanuelDeOrtego]

I will spare us both the anquish of deconstructing these statements of yours:

I have never met an individual so stuck in his own mind, with such a lack of empathy for the experience and perception of others.

I am led to believe you think all men perceive in the same way. The concept of the individual is totally alien to you.

If not, its a concept that you reduce to a unwanted animal.

Lastly, it is irrelevant if a man's perception is not consistent. It is assumed he remains one viewpoint. One being. Whether he is a different being or not is of mere opinion.

As for your "science", it remains as consistent as the academia and individuals that behold it. It is not god. It is not objective.

Reality is all that is in the mind of the individual: It is not consistent. Those who attempt to make it so will inevitably fall to self-destruction along with the death of many.

[the joint]

I will spare us both the anquish of deconstructing these statements of yours:

I have never met an individual so stuck in his own mind, with such a lack of empathy for the experience and perception of others.

I am led to believe you think all men perceive in the same way. The concept of the individual is totally alien to you.

If not, its a concept that you reduce to a unwanted animal.

Lastly, it is irrelevant if a man's perception is not consistent. It is assumed he remains one viewpoint. One being. Whether he is a different being or not is of mere opinion.

As for your "science", it remains as consistent as the academia and individuals that behold it. It is not god. It is not objective.

Reality is all that is in the mind of the individual: It is not consistent. Those who attempt to make it so will inevitably fall to self-destruction along with the death of many.

It's obvious from this post that you didn't really read anything I said in my thread.

[EmanuelDeOrtego]

I will spare us both the anquish of deconstructing these statements of yours:

I have never met an individual so stuck in his own mind, with such a lack of empathy for the experience and perception of others.

I am led to believe you think all men perceive in the same way. The concept of the individual is totally alien to you.

If not, its a concept that you reduce to a unwanted animal.

Lastly, it is irrelevant if a man's perception is not consistent. It is assumed he remains one viewpoint. One being. Whether he is a different being or not is of mere opinion.

As for your "science", it remains as consistent as the academia and individuals that behold it. It is not god. It is not objective.

Reality is all that is in the mind of the individual: It is not consistent. Those who attempt to make it so will inevitably fall to self-destruction along with the death of many.

It's obvious from this post that you didn't really read anything I said in my thread.

Oh but I did, sir, and all I found was that you interpret the individuals you mold as a universal testament to your success.

That, my friend, does not sway me.

If anything, this post of yours is only testament to a lack of comprehension of my post and its point.

You are so blinded to the concepts I evoke that it's astonishing.

I promote agency in human affairs. You espouse some frankenstein of a commutative hivemind.  

All I am is an enemy to your cause of quantifying all human subjects into one book that is your subjective viewpoint.

Your cause is to control and mold all beings to your liking. You call this fixing.

I call for individuals to represent their personal causes and desires in their own way through their own methods.

I promote freedom through the agent. You promote conformity through your subjective ideals.

[the joint]

I will spare us both the anquish of deconstructing these statements of yours:

I have never met an individual so stuck in his own mind, with such a lack of empathy for the experience and perception of others.

I am led to believe you think all men perceive in the same way. The concept of the individual is totally alien to you.

If not, its a concept that you reduce to a unwanted animal.

Lastly, it is irrelevant if a man's perception is not consistent. It is assumed he remains one viewpoint. One being. Whether he is a different being or not is of mere opinion.

As for your "science", it remains as consistent as the academia and individuals that behold it. It is not god. It is not objective.

Reality is all that is in the mind of the individual: It is not consistent. Those who attempt to make it so will inevitably fall to self-destruction along with the death of many.

It's obvious from this post that you didn't really read anything I said in my thread.

Oh but I did, sir, and all I found was that you interpret the individuals you mold as a universal testament to your success.

That, my friend, does not sway me.

If anything, this post of yours is only testament to a lack of comprehension of my post and its point.

You are so blinded to the concepts I evoke that it's astonishing.

I promote agency in human affairs. You espouse some frankenstein of a commutative hivemind.  

All I am is an enemy to your cause of quantifying all human subjects into one book.

No,  I once held your viewpoints and I found out the hard way that they suck.  Is it more important to you that I understand your sadness or that you understand happiness?  

The slippery slope:  when people with mental health issues give advice and support to others with mental health issues.  If you're fat, do you want to sit in a group with other fat people talking about what it's like to be fat and how nobody understands what it's like to be fat, or would you rather go to a personal trainer who knows what the hell he's doing?  You understand mental illness.  Great.  But if you do, don't talk as though you know what works to treat mental illnesses unless you've done it yourself.  I've done that, Atlas.  I'm better now.  I fixed me.  Have you?

I've seen my model work for me and I've seen it work for others.  After 10+ years of intense study and philosophical masturbation, I've found that my model is reasonable.  I've seen overwhelming scientific evidence to support it.  It works.

Your notion that I "quantify all human subjects into one book" is completely off-base and that is why I believe you didn't really read anything I said in my thread.  You forget the parts where I mentioned that it is important to consider individual circumstance.  But, you would have to be a fool to believe that each individual is utterly independent of every other and that no common ground exists between us.  You're butchering logic and you butchered the message of my thread.  You're in denial when you say that you're not stubborn.

You've admitted before you promote chaos.  And then you wonder why I can't agree with what you're saying.  Damn dude.  Listen up, you could learn something.

[EmanuelDeOrtego]

I embrace my suffering as if it were art. I have no desire for it to be gone.

I will contemplate your statements. I will "listen" at this time.

At another time and at another thread, we will debate this thoroughly.

It is always a pleasure to speak with you, my friend. You're valuable and certainly one-of-a-kind.

[Raoul Duke]

I embrace my suffering as if it were art. I have no desire for it to be gone.

I will contemplate your statements. I will "listen" at this time.

At another time and at another thread, we will debate this thoroughly.

It is always a pleasure to speak with you, my friend. You're valuable and certainly one-of-a-kind.

No, I'll prefer if you debate it here. No need for another thread. This one is unlocked now.
Let's not spread the Atlas cancer any further. Let's contain it in this thread only
You made a RE: thread to his thread, so now you better debate the matter with him. No thread locking allowed.