RE: "The root causes of mental illness."

[EmanuelDeOrtego]

At this time, I wish to state that man is a constantly evolving species:

Mutations will arrive, so will new ideas, new individuals and new moralities.

These game changers, these blasphemers, heretics will be considered threats; terrorists.

I, myself, see them as a necessary part of any system that will sustain. I am here to represent them and give them a good name. They will bring our reality a step forward to a new tomorrow, something that a "common ground" and "unity" cannot stand above.

[1714881249]

1714881249

[1714881249]

1714881249

[EmanuelDeOrtego]

This personal cause of mine is what defines my point:

When we begin to see some traits of others as universal problems, we begin to deny the natural sources of our very evolution. Successfully eliminating what some deem unwanted will create an inbred organism only of the subjective whims of a few tyrants.

If this end be inevitable, so be it. However, I shall remain the greatest enemy of it! I shall remain the greatest enemy of every higher power that opposes my cause.

My cause is simple: It is for every individual to pursue their causes (or lack of one) as they wish.

This may require many nations and great decentralization but I find it preferable to an inbred state of affairs in politics, culture and genetics through a globalized and centralized world.

This centralized world may need to form and collapse in order to prove my point. So be it! However, again, I will be the greatest enemy to its existence!

[the joint]

My cause...: It is for every individual...

Interesting.

Dare I clarify the irony/hypocrisy?

[bb113]

Atlas, let me just say this. I actually like you and your posts, you seem like someone who is interested in learning/growing/expanding horizons with a big mouth. If that is true you will realize in 1 year that you didn't know shit the year before, then the same thing will happen again 1 year later, etc until you die. As long as you aren't stubborn and can learn from mistakes you'll be fine, just don't burn bridges in pursuit of whatever your current ideals happen to be. That is how people who like to make things happen ("doers") get fucked over.

I agree that pretty much noone knows wtf they are talking about most of the time. This is the human condition, everyone is making it up as they go along, no matter how confident they act they fall asleep at night despite uncertainty.

[nedbert9]

Cbeast:

I love the term mental illness. It sells a lot of books. Personally, I don't believe it exists. What we perceive as depression, delusion, ADD (bullshit), schizophrenia (most diagnoses are inconclusive), etc. is nothing but our inability to cope with our own weaknesses in helping each other.

Smoke you, you blind bigot.

The suffering I've seen from delusions and hallucinations can not be simply faked. To deny its existence is to admit you have no regard for these people, which I will not question.

he did not say faking. only that your delusions happen because you can't cope. he just rejects the term "mental illness", and replaces it with "inability to cope".

now please fuck off this forum, you are useless, and nobody likes you here. if what you have postulated in a lot of other threads(that you are a grate guy IRL), you don't need this forum to like you either.

On 'the inability to cope.'  If one believes that the most serious mental illnesses are a fabrication of the highest levels of the executive center or consciousness then you need to spend some time in the psych ward of the local hospital.  Those are mostly people with real problems.  Serious problems of structure and/or signaling of the brain. 

Now, for non acute mental illness the inability to cope due to perception and expectations may be a factor.  But to give a blanket explanation for mental illness is truly asinine.

Reading up on the workings of the brain begins to give one an idea of how easily the highest levels of consciousness can be persuaded and corrupted by various phenomenon that are not at all or not entirely under the control of consciousness.

[cbeast]

Cbeast:

I love the term mental illness. It sells a lot of books. Personally, I don't believe it exists. What we perceive as depression, delusion, ADD (bullshit), schizophrenia (most diagnoses are inconclusive), etc. is nothing but our inability to cope with our own weaknesses in helping each other.

Smoke you, you blind bigot.

The suffering I've seen from delusions and hallucinations can not be simply faked. To deny its existence is to admit you have no regard for these people, which I will not question.

he did not say faking. only that your delusions happen because you can't cope. he just rejects the term "mental illness", and replaces it with "inability to cope".

now please fuck off this forum, you are useless, and nobody likes you here. if what you have postulated in a lot of other threads(that you are a grate guy IRL), you don't need this forum to like you either.

On 'the inability to cope.'  If one believes that the most serious mental illnesses are a fabrication of the highest levels of the executive center or consciousness then you need to spend some time in the psych ward of the local hospital.  Those are mostly people with real problems.  Serious problems of structure and/or signaling of the brain. 

Now, for non acute mental illness the inability to cope due to perception and expectations may be a factor.  But to give a blanket explanation for mental illness is truly asinine.

Reading up on the workings of the brain begins to give one an idea of how easily the highest levels of consciousness can be persuaded and corrupted by various phenomenon that are not at all or not entirely under the control of consciousness.

What makes you think that 'problems of structure and/or signaling of the brain' are not caused by environmental factors? Sure there may be infections, tumors, and various other organic pathological vectors, but a lot of damage comes from the stresses of living in the modern age. Our brains have lots of functions. It seems to be the social functions that frighten 'normal' people the most. Man is a social animal and civilization needs to allow our socialization to evolve along with our economic and technological expectations. Wouldn't it be great if we addressed the actual cause rather just treat the symptoms? This one thing that I really commend FaceBook for attempting.

[bb113]

It is clearly not environmental or "organic" factors... it is the interaction between the two that causes behaviour (beneficial or not). Which you go on to assume for the rest of your post so I dunno maybe I am just nitpicking. Are you proposing that it is easier to change the environment than genetics/hormone levels/etc, therefore we should focus on that?

[bbit]

Atlas , do us and yourself a favor and finish off what you didn't do last time w/ the little stunt you pulled. Off yourself  but find a deep dark cave to do it in so you'll never be found.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Atlas , do us and yourself a favor and finish off what you didn't do last time w/ the little stunt you pulled. Off yourself  but find a deep dark cave to do it in so you'll never be found.

Mel's hole?

[cbeast]

It is clearly not environmental or "organic" factors... it is the interaction between the two that causes behaviour (beneficial or not). Which you go on to assume for the rest of your post so I dunno maybe I am just nitpicking. Are you proposing that it is easier to change the environment than genetics/hormone levels/etc, therefore we should focus on that?

It's more than changing meds. It's about how we map our neuro-pathways. We can adapt them somewhat. Our brain has evolved to model others to at least survive, but beyond that our brains develop in ways we are only beginning to understand. Our culture is missing out by not valuing people over merit. If we all, I mean everyone, learned to see themselves in what they perceive as others, we would develop a social order based on commonality rather than otherness. We do that by allowing ourselves and our children to cultivate curiosity rather than force-feed knowledge. Everyone has tremendous capacity for skill if they are allowed to develop it, but the greatest potential we have evolved is to care about our family, tribe, and community. This is so simple, any sane person knows this. So why do we bog ourselves down with the trappings of social systems? It's because we bury our self-image that doesn't match what someone erroneously says we should conform to. They say that keen awareness of surroundings is not as valuable as memorizing the names of abstractions. We value left over right brain dominance, when they are equally powerful and we handicap the person forced to learn against his predisposition. We should teach both ways and value them equally.

We need to rebuild society from the ground up and we will, someday. It won't happen in my lifetime, so I write about ways that someday we will. Maybe our progeny will someday see a world that faces problems together rather than create problems for each other.

[bb113]

It is clearly not environmental or "organic" factors... it is the interaction between the two that causes behaviour (beneficial or not). Which you go on to assume for the rest of your post so I dunno maybe I am just nitpicking. Are you proposing that it is easier to change the environment than genetics/hormone levels/etc, therefore we should focus on that?

It's more than changing meds. It's about how we map our neuro-pathways. We can adapt them somewhat. Our brain has evolved to model others to at least survive, but beyond that our brains develop in ways we are only beginning to understand. Our culture is missing out by not valuing people over merit. If we all, I mean everyone, learned to see themselves in what they perceive as others, we would develop a social order based on commonality rather than otherness. We do that by allowing ourselves and our children to cultivate curiosity rather than force-feed knowledge. Everyone has tremendous capacity for skill if they are allowed to develop it, but the greatest potential we have evolved is to care about our family, tribe, and community. This is so simple, any sane person knows this. So why do we bog ourselves down with the trappings of social systems? It's because we bury our self-image that doesn't match what someone erroneously says we should conform to. They say that keen awareness of surroundings is not as valuable as memorizing the names of abstractions. We value left over right brain dominance, when they are equally powerful and we handicap the person forced to learn against his predisposition. We should teach both ways and value them equally.

We need to rebuild society from the ground up and we will, someday. It won't happen in my lifetime, so I write about ways that someday we will. Maybe our progeny will someday see a world that faces problems together rather than create problems for each other.

Well I'd like to read one of your books where you examine this further. Designing a robust system is hard to say the least.

[cbeast]

It is clearly not environmental or "organic" factors... it is the interaction between the two that causes behaviour (beneficial or not). Which you go on to assume for the rest of your post so I dunno maybe I am just nitpicking. Are you proposing that it is easier to change the environment than genetics/hormone levels/etc, therefore we should focus on that?

It's more than changing meds. It's about how we map our neuro-pathways. We can adapt them somewhat. Our brain has evolved to model others to at least survive, but beyond that our brains develop in ways we are only beginning to understand. Our culture is missing out by not valuing people over merit. If we all, I mean everyone, learned to see themselves in what they perceive as others, we would develop a social order based on commonality rather than otherness. We do that by allowing ourselves and our children to cultivate curiosity rather than force-feed knowledge. Everyone has tremendous capacity for skill if they are allowed to develop it, but the greatest potential we have evolved is to care about our family, tribe, and community. This is so simple, any sane person knows this. So why do we bog ourselves down with the trappings of social systems? It's because we bury our self-image that doesn't match what someone erroneously says we should conform to. They say that keen awareness of surroundings is not as valuable as memorizing the names of abstractions. We value left over right brain dominance, when they are equally powerful and we handicap the person forced to learn against his predisposition. We should teach both ways and value them equally.

We need to rebuild society from the ground up and we will, someday. It won't happen in my lifetime, so I write about ways that someday we will. Maybe our progeny will someday see a world that faces problems together rather than create problems for each other.

Well I'd like to read one of your books where you examine this further. Designing a robust system is hard to say the least.

If you want, I'll pm you about a book I wrote a few years ago. It serves as a template for my philosophy and writing themes. I have several books in the works, but have had little time lately for writing. I plan to someday soon take a long sabbatical to finish them and write some more books. Meanwhile, the list of topics grows. Now that my kids are grown and I am getting caught up financially, I can enjoy life a little and let my demons out on paper.

[nedbert9]

Cbeast:

I love the term mental illness. It sells a lot of books. Personally, I don't believe it exists. What we perceive as depression, delusion, ADD (bullshit), schizophrenia (most diagnoses are inconclusive), etc. is nothing but our inability to cope with our own weaknesses in helping each other.

Smoke you, you blind bigot.

The suffering I've seen from delusions and hallucinations can not be simply faked. To deny its existence is to admit you have no regard for these people, which I will not question.

he did not say faking. only that your delusions happen because you can't cope. he just rejects the term "mental illness", and replaces it with "inability to cope".

now please fuck off this forum, you are useless, and nobody likes you here. if what you have postulated in a lot of other threads(that you are a grate guy IRL), you don't need this forum to like you either.

On 'the inability to cope.'  If one believes that the most serious mental illnesses are a fabrication of the highest levels of the executive center or consciousness then you need to spend some time in the psych ward of the local hospital.  Those are mostly people with real problems.  Serious problems of structure and/or signaling of the brain. 

Now, for non acute mental illness the inability to cope due to perception and expectations may be a factor.  But to give a blanket explanation for mental illness is truly asinine.

Reading up on the workings of the brain begins to give one an idea of how easily the highest levels of consciousness can be persuaded and corrupted by various phenomenon that are not at all or not entirely under the control of consciousness.

What makes you think that 'problems of structure and/or signaling of the brain' are not caused by environmental factors? Sure there may be infections, tumors, and various other organic pathological vectors, but a lot of damage comes from the stresses of living in the modern age. Our brains have lots of functions. It seems to be the social functions that frighten 'normal' people the most. Man is a social animal and civilization needs to allow our socialization to evolve along with our economic and technological expectations. Wouldn't it be great if we addressed the actual cause rather just treat the symptoms? This one thing that I really commend FaceBook for attempting.

That wasn't my argument.  I have no idea how you got that out of my post.  Save the flames for someone else.

[bb113]

It is clearly not environmental or "organic" factors... it is the interaction between the two that causes behaviour (beneficial or not). Which you go on to assume for the rest of your post so I dunno maybe I am just nitpicking. Are you proposing that it is easier to change the environment than genetics/hormone levels/etc, therefore we should focus on that?

It's more than changing meds. It's about how we map our neuro-pathways. We can adapt them somewhat. Our brain has evolved to model others to at least survive, but beyond that our brains develop in ways we are only beginning to understand. Our culture is missing out by not valuing people over merit. If we all, I mean everyone, learned to see themselves in what they perceive as others, we would develop a social order based on commonality rather than otherness. We do that by allowing ourselves and our children to cultivate curiosity rather than force-feed knowledge. Everyone has tremendous capacity for skill if they are allowed to develop it, but the greatest potential we have evolved is to care about our family, tribe, and community. This is so simple, any sane person knows this. So why do we bog ourselves down with the trappings of social systems? It's because we bury our self-image that doesn't match what someone erroneously says we should conform to. They say that keen awareness of surroundings is not as valuable as memorizing the names of abstractions. We value left over right brain dominance, when they are equally powerful and we handicap the person forced to learn against his predisposition. We should teach both ways and value them equally.

We need to rebuild society from the ground up and we will, someday. It won't happen in my lifetime, so I write about ways that someday we will. Maybe our progeny will someday see a world that faces problems together rather than create problems for each other.

Well I'd like to read one of your books where you examine this further. Designing a robust system is hard to say the least.

If you want, I'll pm you about a book I wrote a few years ago. It serves as a template for my philosophy and writing themes. I have several books in the works, but have had little time lately for writing. I plan to someday soon take a long sabbatical to finish them and write some more books. Meanwhile, the list of topics grows. Now that my kids are grown and I am getting caught up financially, I can enjoy life a little and let my demons out on paper.

Send me a pdf and I'll get it made into a pro looking book, then mail copy to an address of your choosing. It'll probably cost about 15-50 bucks depending on what type of quality (binding, etc).

[bb113]

My cause...: It is for every individual...

Interesting.

Dare I clarify the irony/hypocrisy?

There is no contradiction. I selfishly enjoy the liberation of others.

That makes it sound like you jerk off to the "liberation of others".

[Matthew N. Wright]

My cause...: It is for every individual...

Interesting.

Dare I clarify the irony/hypocrisy?

There is no contradiction. I selfishly enjoy the liberation of others.

That makes it sound like you jerk off to the "liberation of others".

It's worse than that-- he thinks his jerking off is what is liberating others.

[kokjo]

you made 11 posts, then you made a user account more. sick bastard! please leave us alone, or at least use the same fucking account so we can ignore you.

[bb113]

My cause...: It is for every individual...

Interesting.

Dare I clarify the irony/hypocrisy?

There is no contradiction. I selfishly enjoy the liberation of others.

That makes it sound like you jerk off to the "liberation of others".

It's worse than that-- he thinks his jerking off is what is liberating others.

I was wrong. Thank you.

[the joint]

My cause...: It is for every individual...

Interesting.

Dare I clarify the irony/hypocrisy?

There is no contradiction. I selfishly enjoy the liberation of others.

You seriously don't see the irony in what you said?  Really?

Edit:  I'll give you a hint.  It involves something that you accused me of and condemned me for.

[GreatBurden]

I want people to be their highest power. That's all I meant, joint.

Now, state your point. I am intrigued.