Bitcoin as an investment

[soy]

The long term slow drop in Bitcoin value, is it the result of bad press foist by banks or the dumping of mined Bitcoins by large farms like those associated with KnC?

A long slow decline is bad for miner/investors like myself who don't dump the mined Bitcoins.  But, it would seem ideal for owners of large farms who see the decline as reducing the number of users getting into mining and therefore the reduction in private purchase of mining gear.

Historically, since KnC's gear came on the market, the best thing to have done with the mined Bitcoins is to have dumped the Bitcoins for cash.  Did they foresee the result of constantly dumping the Bitcoins?  Would the slow decline in value have happened anyway?  We know the banks don't object to Bitcoin become useless as an investment.

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[MF Doom]

I dont think its the result of bad press.  Is the result of a fraudulent increase to over $1000 due to Gox/willie bot and other fraudulent exchange activity

[sniveling]

Bitcoin's always gone up and down in value. I think the price would have gone down after it peaked anyway. This is probably the despair phase and it's a good sign we are starting the run up to the next peak.

[RodeoX]

There is no reason to not to believe it is the correct price. Investing, aka. speculating, is a very risky game of trying to predict the future price. This ran the price up beyond $1000, far above it's value based on utility and current use. Then the price crashed and seems to like $350. Well, maybe we have our answer. The right price is about $350.
It will likely go up in the future if current trends persist, but that again is a guess and assumes a certain future. Bitcoin was never meant as a investment and it is risky to do so.

[soy]

Bitcoin was never meant as a investment and it is risky to do so.

The early hype was that since the number of Bitcoins that can exist won't change it will have better long term value than fiat.  This was after some years of savings accounts earning pennies per thousand dollars per year.  So, I'd say it was presented as an investment.

[PolarPoint]

Despite what others may think. We are not going to see another ATH in 2015. Bitcoin will climb up slowly in 2015 with ups and downs. If you have spare cash, buy some for long term investment.

[pinky]

The long term slow drop in Bitcoin value, is it the result of bad press foist by banks or the dumping of mined Bitcoins by large farms like those associated with KnC?

The main thing is there is less demand than one year ago which is typical for post bubble period. Then we have less press coverage, centralized mining which must sell to have positive ROI, unfavorable regulation & bans in some countries, regular auctions of seized coins, possible returning of gox coins, possible slow selling of stolen gox coins, merchant selling pressure. Bitcoin is fucked until we see something that will spur the price - new demand like accounts seizures, higher inflation, new great app,....

[soy]

So if we focus on the large farms continuing to dump their mined Bitcoins although there's no telling what their investors, those who buy slices of the farm, do with theirs, and figure that when they feel that their large farms are too-big-too-fail from new investments in Bitcoin miners,  perhaps they'll curtail their Bitcoin dumping and allow the price to rise.  If the small miner were to follow suit, say next year starting to sell each Bitcoin as it accumulates and recording the blockchain value of each payout for tax computations, then when the small miner sees a rising trend in Bitcoin price, he might buy back each Bitcoin as it approaches the value it sold at.  That would seem to be the safest way to play it.  Heck the average realtime blockchain value for the Bitcoins I mined this year is ~$569 while the Bitcoin value right now is ~$348.  So, the large farms are hurting Bitcoin on the scale of Karpeles.  It did level out the hashrate tho.

[the joint]

Bitcoin was never meant as a investment and it is risky to do so.

The early hype was that since the number of Bitcoins that can exist won't change it will have better long term value than fiat.  This was after some years of savings accounts earning pennies per thousand dollars per year.  So, I'd say it was presented as an investment.

Did you read the Satoshi white paper?

That is how BTC was presented.

[1Referee]

If you focus on the legit price of Bitcoin then current rate is an amazing achievement and the right price.

People are constantly mentioning Bitcoin was $900 $1000 bla bla bla. That was 100% manipulation thus not legit.

Of course miners and early adopters kept dumping at such prices. It would have been weird if they didn't dump.

[RodeoX]

Bitcoin was never meant as a investment and it is risky to do so.

The early hype was that since the number of Bitcoins that can exist won't change it will have better long term value than fiat.  This was after some years of savings accounts earning pennies per thousand dollars per year.  So, I'd say it was presented as an investment.

Did you read the Satoshi white paper?

That is how BTC was presented.

I didn't get that from the white paper? It does not mention investing or speculating on bitcoin. I'm certainly not saying you can't and many, many people have encouraged others to speculate. But I don't see where Satoshi has?

[sniveling]

Satoshi intended it as a store of value and you could speculate on any store of value like gold or dollars. I thought he created it as a store of value for when banks go bankrupt.

[the joint]

Bitcoin was never meant as a investment and it is risky to do so.

The early hype was that since the number of Bitcoins that can exist won't change it will have better long term value than fiat.  This was after some years of savings accounts earning pennies per thousand dollars per year.  So, I'd say it was presented as an investment.

Did you read the Satoshi white paper?

That is how BTC was presented.

I didn't get that from the white paper? It does not mention investing or speculating on bitcoin. I'm certainly not saying you can't and many, many people have encouraged others to speculate. But I don't see where Satoshi has?

Actually, I meant the opposite.  I meant that the white paper is how BTC was "presented," and it was presented as a framework for a decentralized monetary system, and not as an investment.

[sgbett]

Bitcoin isn't an investment, it's insurance.

[fewcoins]

Bitcoin isn't an investment, it's insurance.

Insurance?! LMFAO! It's actually a guarantee that your money will be moved around in a Ponzi scheme format and placed into someone else's pocket (usually mine)

[rogerdonkey]

Bitcoin isn't an investment, it's insurance.

insurance? are you kidding me?? what you mean with insurance???

[Ibian]

Bitcoin was never meant as...

People need to stop saying this.

[Ibian]

Bitcoin isn't an investment, it's insurance.

insurance? are you kidding me?? what you mean with insurance???

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

That's what he means. We will see hyperinflation, or default, or a massive war within our lifetimes. Bitcoin is independent of any of the fiat economies. It's digital gold.

[kingscrown]

imo its not an investment - just a curency

[exocytosis]

Bitcoin is independent of any of the fiat economies.

Oh, really?

Yet Bitcoin's value is measured in USD ... And merchants "accepting" bitcoin, actually doesn't accept Bitcoin at all, but USD through Bitpay and Coinbase ... Doesn't sound very independent to me.

If all the fiat economies of the world were to come crumbling down at the same time, would poor peasants in Africa and Asia all suddenly come flocking to Bitcoin? Or would they perhaps focus on getting food in their stomachs instead?

The Bitcoin hype started dying as soon as Gox went out of business and took Markus and Willy with it. Every BTC bubble was fueled by Gox manipulation schemes. Now the world is seeing bitcoin for what it really is: A couple of thousand deluded cultist hoarders, and another couple of thousand junkies and pervs looking for drugs and child porn on the deep web.