Does torture work?

[Vod]

Does torture work?

As a question this compares to "Is slavery commercially feasible?" & "Can genocide help overpopulation?"

Shame on the US for torturing prisoners....

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[oprahwindfury]

Every time this topic comes up I like to think of the Batman quote;

Batman: I'm no executioner.

Ra's al Ghul: Your compassion is a weakness your enemies will not share.

Batman: That's why it's so important. It separates us from them.

Political activism hidden in Batman comics? Sounds like my cup of tea.

[ObscureBean]

It doesn't really matter whether torture works or not. It is an inevitability in a world built on power, a byproduct that can never truly be eradicated. Attempting to remove torture from the equation while continuing to enjoy the 'good' side of power is a fool's errand. If you really feel strongly about it, you'd have to start by questioning the privileges that power brings to you.

[pattu1]

Does torture work?

As a question this compares to "Is slavery commercially feasible?" & "Can genocide help overpopulation?"

Shame on the US for torturing prisoners....

I think they would justify it under "greater good" argument.
The US should probably stop lecturing other countries about human rights, now that we know that they consider torture as a legitimate interrogation method.

[Hamuki]

I dont feel bad when I hear that the US is torturing terrorists.

They have planned or executed a attack on innocent civilians..
Then they get what they deserve.. Does not matter if its a terrorists or a pedofile.

[Daniel91]

I don't think so.
People will confess anything under torture, true or lie.
In fact, it seems that torture didn't help CIA to prevent even one terrorist attack since 2001.

[Hamuki]

I don't think so.
People will confess anything under torture, true or lie.
In fact, it seems that torture didn't help CIA to prevent even one terrorist attack since 2001.

Got anything that proves that?

"In fact, it seems that torture didn't help CIA to prevent even one terrorist attack since 2001. "

I think it have helped.. Several times..
And a terrorists is a terrorist.. Shot them, torture them or beat them to death.. I dont mind it..
Those fuckers deserve it.

[Lethn]

I dont feel bad when I hear that the US is torturing terrorists.

They have planned or executed a attack on innocent civilians..
Then they get what they deserve.. Does not matter if its a terrorists or a pedofile.

You won't be thinking that if you're ever snatched up by them, fact is innocent people have wound up getting tortured and tortured people will confess to anything to make the pain stop, so calling it effective is just stupid especially if they'll just tell the torturers what they want to hear and then a real disaster happens despite them torturing people.

[Hamuki]

I dont feel bad when I hear that the US is torturing terrorists.

They have planned or executed a attack on innocent civilians..
Then they get what they deserve.. Does not matter if its a terrorists or a pedofile.

You won't be thinking that if you're ever snatched up by them, fact is innocent people have wound up getting tortured and tortured people will confess to anything to make the pain stop, so calling it effective is just stupid especially if they'll just tell the torturers what they want to hear and then a real disaster happens despite them torturing people.

Read once agian..

I say that I have no problem with terrorists being tortured.. Yes, mistakes happen.. And this kind of mistakes should never happen..

But if you catch a terrorist that is prepping for an attack or was captured during an attack.. All I have to say is make him suffer.

[Elwar]

Torture works...if you are the one torturing and enjoy it. Or if you give the orders and somehow feel proud that you are helping your country.

It's all about helping people feel good right?

[Hamuki]

Torture works...if you are the one torturing and enjoy it. Or if you give the orders and somehow feel proud that you are helping your country.

It's all about helping people feel good right?

Its about punishing the bastard who killed innocent people.

Woman, children and elders who are not able to defend themselfs.

[Elwar]

Torture works...if you are the one torturing and enjoy it. Or if you give the orders and somehow feel proud that you are helping your country.

It's all about helping people feel good right?

Its about punishing the bastard who killed innocent people.

Woman, children and elders who are not able to defend themselfs.

See...this guy probably feels good about torture too.

Good feelings...

torture works

[Lethn]

I dont feel bad when I hear that the US is torturing terrorists.

They have planned or executed a attack on innocent civilians..
Then they get what they deserve.. Does not matter if its a terrorists or a pedofile.

You won't be thinking that if you're ever snatched up by them, fact is innocent people have wound up getting tortured and tortured people will confess to anything to make the pain stop, so calling it effective is just stupid especially if they'll just tell the torturers what they want to hear and then a real disaster happens despite them torturing people.

Read once agian..

I say that I have no problem with terrorists being tortured.. Yes, mistakes happen.. And this kind of mistakes should never happen..

But if you catch a terrorist that is prepping for an attack or was captured during an attack.. All I have to say is make him suffer.

I read it again, you're still a violent psychopath and a cunt.

[Hamuki]

I dont feel bad when I hear that the US is torturing terrorists.

They have planned or executed a attack on innocent civilians..
Then they get what they deserve.. Does not matter if its a terrorists or a pedofile.

You won't be thinking that if you're ever snatched up by them, fact is innocent people have wound up getting tortured and tortured people will confess to anything to make the pain stop, so calling it effective is just stupid especially if they'll just tell the torturers what they want to hear and then a real disaster happens despite them torturing people.

Read once agian..

I say that I have no problem with terrorists being tortured.. Yes, mistakes happen.. And this kind of mistakes should never happen..

But if you catch a terrorist that is prepping for an attack or was captured during an attack.. All I have to say is make him suffer.

I read it again, you're still a violent psychopath and a cunt.

Violence does not solve anything.. Its how I feel about those fuckers.. Its not how it should be done.

[BADecker]

While torture doesn't work all of the time, it works most of the time. Here is part of the way it works, especially at places like Guantanamo.

Often you don't know if the person you are torturing knows anything or not. Maybe he doesn't know even the least bit about the things you are questioning him of. He is still useful for you. Here's how.

Your political masters - the people who are your bosses - want confessions along certain lines. They don't care if the confessions are the truth or not. They simply want the confessions in a certain way so that they can use them for political purposes - to propagandize the "free" people.

Over the decades, psychologists have figured out ways for you, the torturer, to ask questions of your torturees, to elicit the answer you want to hear from them, in the way you want to hear it. In other words, you want to ask them questions in such a way that makes it look like you are asking them legitimate questions. What you are really doing is feeding them the answers that you want them to "confess" to so that you get a confession that you can use as propaganda, whether or not the particular torturee has any knowledge of what is going on regarding the thing that you are questioning him about.

This is part of the reason why the Guantanamo prisoners have been kept for so long. They have been going through classes - torture classes - that have turned them into good subjects out of whom the torturers can get the confessions that they want to hear, to use for propaganda purposes. The training takes a long time. Some torturees die from it. But it has to look real. So, when you get a batch of torturees trained, you don't want to let them go unless you absolutely have to.

In the event you don't think this is true, just consider the police, especially in big cities. You have probably heard the term "good cop, bad cop." That's where two cops get on your case. The bad cop accuses you (to induce fear into you) while the good cop sticks up for you (to make it look like he is your buddy, helping you). What they are both doing is trying to elicit the confession that they want to hear out of you.

This cop thing is torture. It is a mild form of Guantanamo. If the laws weren't so strict with regard to using torture on U.S. citizens, the cops wouldn't have to resort to such complex tactics. They would simply go and beat it out of you... whatever they wanted to hear... truth or not. They often do this right now. I bet there are some forum contributors who have had this experience.

So, yes. Torture works. But very often it isn't being used for the purposes that the general public thinks. Rather, it is being used to propagandize and manipulate the public through false confessions that look real.

[achimsmile]

Torture works...if you are the one torturing and enjoy it. Or if you give the orders and somehow feel proud that you are helping your country.

It's all about helping people feel good right?

Its about punishing the bastard who killed innocent people.

Woman, children and elders who are not able to defend themselfs.

You seem to know that everyone in Guantanamo is a murderer... I wonder how you come to this conclusion?

These guys didn't even get a process, the weren't prosecuted. But hey, they're all terorists so it's OK... Yes, many of them are, and they should spend their life in jail.
But of course the CIA is always right and doesn't kidnap and torture innocent guys. 

Jeez I get spasms when reading this thread.

[BADecker]

Torture works...if you are the one torturing and enjoy it. Or if you give the orders and somehow feel proud that you are helping your country.

It's all about helping people feel good right?

Its about punishing the bastard who killed innocent people.

Woman, children and elders who are not able to defend themselfs.

You seem to know that everyone in Guantanamo is a murderer... I wonder how you come to this conclusion?

These guys didn't even get a process, the weren't prosecuted. But hey, they're all terorists so it's OK... Yes, many of them are, and they should spend their life in jail.
But of course the CIA is always right and doesn't kidnap and torture innocent guys. 

Jeez I get spasms when reading this thread.

Read my post, two posts up. 

[achimsmile]

Over the decades, psychologists have figured out ways for you, the torturer, to ask questions of your torturees, to elicit the answer you want to hear from them

Perfectly right. The prisoner will tell the torturer anything (truth and lies) that he thinks the torturer wants to hear. He just wants it to stop.

[SirChiko]

It doesn't help, people outside think that it won't happen to them and the ones that have to be tortued have fear close to insanity.
It's just retared system of showing "i have the power i can do whatever i want"...and that isn't right.

[Elwar]

It makes people feel good that some "terrorist" is getting tortured. Those people then turn around and give control over their own lives and money to people who can make that torture happen. Those people receive the power, they use it on whatever they want, spend money on wars and torture and use that power to continue to get more and more power. They can then widen the definition of "terrorist" at will to include those that do not agree with them or get in the way of them obtaining more power. They can spin it using propaganda to make it sound like the victims deserve it, making people once again feel good about the torture giving up even more power.

Eventually it turns from feeling good about the torture to being fearful that you might come under the definition of "terrorist". Then you are under their full control. By then it is too late.

[Lethn]

I dont feel bad when I hear that the US is torturing terrorists.

They have planned or executed a attack on innocent civilians..
Then they get what they deserve.. Does not matter if its a terrorists or a pedofile.

You won't be thinking that if you're ever snatched up by them, fact is innocent people have wound up getting tortured and tortured people will confess to anything to make the pain stop, so calling it effective is just stupid especially if they'll just tell the torturers what they want to hear and then a real disaster happens despite them torturing people.

Read once agian..

I say that I have no problem with terrorists being tortured.. Yes, mistakes happen.. And this kind of mistakes should never happen..

But if you catch a terrorist that is prepping for an attack or was captured during an attack.. All I have to say is make him suffer.

I read it again, you're still a violent psychopath and a cunt.

Violence does not solve anything.. Its how I feel about those fuckers.. Its not how it should be done.

Are you still the same person posting? I think some people on this forum are definitely deranged quit trying to justify your own bullshit, we all know you're a torture loving sadist.

[Hamuki]

I dont feel bad when I hear that the US is torturing terrorists.

They have planned or executed a attack on innocent civilians..
Then they get what they deserve.. Does not matter if its a terrorists or a pedofile.

You won't be thinking that if you're ever snatched up by them, fact is innocent people have wound up getting tortured and tortured people will confess to anything to make the pain stop, so calling it effective is just stupid especially if they'll just tell the torturers what they want to hear and then a real disaster happens despite them torturing people.

Read once agian..

I say that I have no problem with terrorists being tortured.. Yes, mistakes happen.. And this kind of mistakes should never happen..

But if you catch a terrorist that is prepping for an attack or was captured during an attack.. All I have to say is make him suffer.

I read it again, you're still a violent psychopath and a cunt.

Violence does not solve anything.. Its how I feel about those fuckers.. Its not how it should be done.

Are you still the same person posting? I think some people on this forum are definitely deranged quit trying to justify your own bullshit, we all know you're a torture loving sadist.

Says the one who is throwing shit around to make himself look better.
I think they deserve it.. Is that wrong?
If someone killed your family just because they did not believe in the same thing as you do.. Would you not want revenge?
Would you not want them to suffer?

Torture is wrong.. No matter how you put it, I know that.
Im just saying its what I think that they deserve... Not what should be done.

[Lethn]

I knew someone was trying to kill my family I'd show up to defend them, it's that simple for me, if people are dead they're dead, going around and taking revenge on people who may or may not be involved just makes you a rampaging lunatic.

Also, make myself look better? LOL I post stuff that I know pisses of people like you because it goes against what you believe, that's not what people who are trying to pander to a certain group do. Don't try and pigeon hole me into your own belief system and world view, I don't fit in there so neatly.

[BitMos]

Reading BADdecker, I agree with him that abuses of power must be denied anywhere in the state. However what I believe is that there is no need to torture anyone, when said anyone answer the truth to what ever question he is asked. The problem is answer to questions like : do you want to destroy the Empire? Do you believe in the use of violence to achieve your political goals? Do you believe in the use of asymmetrical warfare as the weaker part to accomplish any goal? Why don't you want to tell the name of those you know that plot acts of violence against the Empire? Do you support freedom of speech? Do you want to enslave People? do you, did you, on and on. Remember that in custody of the Imperial Forces you have access to Freedom of Speech, everyone just want the Truth, and understand why such hate, and not lose time, energy, resources. All forms of propagandas based on lies always collapse against the truth, and facts, or what happened has always time on it's side, even the end of it. GOD KNOWS. Why would mortals not take the time alive to assume what they did, want to do, how they think, and express it, peacefully. Both the one asking and the one answering can learn in a discussion.

For example everyone focus on the innocents of Guantanamo, but how many people (foreign and domestic nationals) are currently held against their will in the custody of the Empire, by Imperial Forces, meaning not outsourced (outside of the civilian system, black site, jail ships, on the moon, what ever)? How many of them have been cleared for release meaning being innocent of any wrong doing and are still in custody? Why? Where to release them? Who doesn't want and why? Furthermore what few want to admit is that every single act of using the RE against the Path, weaken the RE.

Another narrative that is fully hidden by most, is the impact on water resources of certain dirty mining operations and other industrial practices in a country like afg. It will be hardcore, they perfected the fighting seasons, they know the spices, they trust in God and frankly if you think about the perspectives of a local afghan farmers, it's more survival than any other consideration about emancipations, freedom, respect and love. Why? Why is it so hard to live in peace in Afghanistan. You add the tribal narratives of oppression on top, with shifting allegiances and morals... It's already mega hard to make peace among People, if you had continuous foreign pressures since very long, hard to imagine a future where weapons are stored and then recycled, and not needed to be slept with.

But what ever I say, remember all of this is just the price paid for the answer to one simple question: give us ubl. it was arrogantly answered no. the rest is history. Happily we can all learn from history, to improve future responses. Justice starts always with the weakest. And if there is no justice for the weakest there is no peace for the strongest. Otherwise the strongest will become the weakest of another one. Remember it's the Path not the People.

101 Stand in the path of the Empire of Love at your own perils. Exponentialization like digitalization has rules, 1 . 0 can you?

[achimsmile]

Would you not want them to suffer?

Not at all. Would not make me feel better, but worse.

[Hamuki]

I knew someone was trying to kill my family I'd show up to defend them, it's that simple for me, if people are dead they're dead, going around and taking revenge on people who may or may not be involved just makes you a rampaging lunatic.

Also, make myself look better? LOL I post stuff that I know pisses of people like you because it goes against what you believe, that's not what people who are trying to pander to a certain group do. Don't try and pigeon hole me into your own belief system and world view, I don't fit in there so neatly.

Not trying.. They are dead.

Someone killed them.. You have a choice.. To let them walk free and run away and kill more, or take them down and give them what they deserve.

Im guessing you are muslim too.

Muslims, 10% of them are just lunatics who blow themselfs up and kill innocent people.
90% friendly.

Fuck the extremists, and fuck those who support them.

Dont meet me on the street with an ISIS flag in your hand unless you are burning it.
Or else you are gonna have a bad fucking time.

EDIT:
I would not kill the person, but knock them out and drag them down to the local PD and get them arrested for treasom.

[Lethn]

Dont meet me on the street with an ISIS flag in your hand unless you are burning it.
Or else you are gonna have a bad fucking time.

You're definitely a psychopath, I'm an Anarchist and I won't be ruled over by people who insist on dragging me into their conflicts and wars because they're so bloodthirsty they 'have' to have revenge on somebody who killed someone close to them.

If you want to go around massacring people or torturing them to make yourself feel better that's fine, but I'll be sitting here waiting for you all to kill yourselves off so I can live in peace with the other more sane human beings.

[Hamuki]

Dont meet me on the street with an ISIS flag in your hand unless you are burning it.
Or else you are gonna have a bad fucking time.

You're definitely a psychopath, I'm an Anarchist and I won't be ruled over by people who insist on dragging me into their conflicts and wars because they're so bloodthirsty they 'have' to have revenge on somebody who killed someone close to them.

If you want to go around massacring people or torturing them to make yourself feel better that's fine, but I'll be sitting here waiting for you all to kill yourselves off so I can live in peace with the other more sane human beings.

All im saying is stay away from my country.
Stay away from me.

Keep your shit in the middleeast and dont take it over the borders.

Im a psychopath? Hmm.. k.

[Lethn]

I'm British you halfwit and I'm white.

[Hamuki]

I'm British you halfwit and I'm white.

And im danish and im white.

Cunt.

[BADecker]

Dont meet me on the street with an ISIS flag in your hand unless you are burning it.
Or else you are gonna have a bad fucking time.

You're definitely a psychopath, I'm an Anarchist and I won't be ruled over by people who insist on dragging me into their conflicts and wars because they're so bloodthirsty they 'have' to have revenge on somebody who killed someone close to them.

If you want to go around massacring people or torturing them to make yourself feel better that's fine, but I'll be sitting here waiting for you all to kill yourselves off so I can live in peace with the other more sane human beings.

Actually, that's what government is really for. Get all the warriors into government so that they can kill each other off (since that's why they are warriors), and take government down at the same time BY killing each other off.

[BADecker]

I'm British you halfwit and I'm white.

And im danish and im white.

Cunt.

Hey, do you think Claire Danes is Danish?   

[Hamuki]

I'm British you halfwit and I'm white.

And im danish and im white.

Cunt.

Hey, do you think Claire Danes is Danish?   

Wow.. Such joke.. Much fun...

I have no idea who that is.

[BADecker]

I'm British you halfwit and I'm white.

And im danish and im white.

Cunt.

Hey, do you think Claire Danes is Danish?   

Wow.. Such joke.. Much fun...

I have no idea who that is.

Say, do you have Internet? 

[Hamuki]

I'm British you halfwit and I'm white.

And im danish and im white.

Cunt.

Hey, do you think Claire Danes is Danish?   

Wow.. Such joke.. Much fun...

I have no idea who that is.

Say, do you have Internet? 

I think you answered your own question.. Why ask, when you can google it yourself?
And no, she is apperently from the US.

[BADecker]

I'm British you halfwit and I'm white.

And im danish and im white.

Cunt.

Hey, do you think Claire Danes is Danish?   

Wow.. Such joke.. Much fun...

I have no idea who that is.

Say, do you have Internet? 

I think you answered your own question.. Why ask, when you can google it yourself?
And no, she is apperently from the US.

Thank you. What do you think, Lethn?   

[Hamuki]

I'm British you halfwit and I'm white.

And im danish and im white.

Cunt.

Hey, do you think Claire Danes is Danish?   

Wow.. Such joke.. Much fun...

I have no idea who that is.

Say, do you have Internet? 

I think you answered your own question.. Why ask, when you can google it yourself?
And no, she is apperently from the US.

Thank you. What do you think, Lethn?   

Gotta go fix some things..

Have a good day.

[BADecker]

I'm British you halfwit and I'm white.

And im danish and im white.

Cunt.

Hey, do you think Claire Danes is Danish?   

Wow.. Such joke.. Much fun...

I have no idea who that is.

Say, do you have Internet? 

I think you answered your own question.. Why ask, when you can google it yourself?
And no, she is apperently from the US.

Thank you. What do you think, Lethn?   

Gotta go fix some things..

Have a good day.

You're not Lethn.   

[Ingatqhvq]

Sometimes, yes, it works.
But we should criticize such behavior

[solid12345]

The problem is the definition of torture is very loose.

If playing loud rock music straight for 36 hours is torture then I could argue putting a perp in a room surrounded by cops and interrogating him for 36 hours straight is torture too. Who are you to say otherwise?

[okae]

Every time this topic comes up I like to think of the Batman quote;

Batman: I'm no executioner.

Ra's al Ghul: Your compassion is a weakness your enemies will not share.

Batman: That's why it's so important. It separates us from them.

Political activism hidden in Batman comics? Sounds like my cup of tea.

the question is, why i was thinking the same when i read this thread for the first time? LOL

If someone killed your family just because they did not believe in the same thing as you do.. Would you not want revenge?
Would you not want them to suffer?

The real problem is,¿why there should be someone who want to kill another one? this is the real problem of the humanity, there should not be ppl who fell the needed to do those things...

Torture is wrong.. No matter how you put it, I know that.

all type of  torture, psychological included, also for me some education on some country are near to a psychological torture, maybe this is the real problem? the education? and if this is teh real problem, who want to tell us whats the perfect education?

[Wilikon]

Does torture work?

As a question this compares to "Is slavery commercially feasible?" & "Can genocide help overpopulation?"

Shame on the US for torturing prisoners....

Torture will work if you do it to the children, spouse, family members of the target and make him/her watch.

[Spendulus]

Does torture work?....

Trying to answer such a question is torturous.