WTF are the politicians doing ?

[BADecker]

One rule; one law; one order; don't eat the one fruit. Eat all the rest. Don't eat that one. Honor God by obeying that one rule. After all, honoring God, and thereby glorifying Him, is what man was created for.

People couldn't leave well enough alone back then, and they haven't ever since.

The result is entropy. There was no entropy before that. Man brought the entropy.

Exactly. One boring nirvana with no diversity and very lonely.

Either God can't meddle or he will end up all alone again.

Sorry there is no mathematical way around this.

You don't understand what you are talking about. The people who live with God will have joys that are as diverse as necessary to please them. They will glorify God for His great goodness, and He will glorify them for their recognition of Him. Very un-boring.

Continue with your choice.

[1714678011]

1714678011

[1714678011]

1714678011

[1714678011]

1714678011

[contagion]

One rule; one law; one order; don't eat the one fruit. Eat all the rest. Don't eat that one. Honor God by obeying that one rule. After all, honoring God, and thereby glorifying Him, is what man was created for.

People couldn't leave well enough alone back then, and they haven't ever since.

The result is entropy. There was no entropy before that. Man brought the entropy.

Exactly. One boring nirvana with no diversity and very lonely.

Either God can't meddle or he will end up all alone again.

Sorry there is no mathematical way around this.

You don't understand what you are talking about. The people who live with God will have joys that are as diverse as necessary to please them.

You are missing the point that either they are perfect and thus a copy of God, or they are imperfect and thus God's will was not applied.

If you are speaking about the joys they have in this Universe while they are still imperfect, yeah they rejoice in thinking they are the few ones what won't be perpetually burned with fire. Yet they forget, no such promise was made to them. We are not allowed to judge ourselves and must wait for the narrow gate ex post facto to receive our fate.

There is no way a promise could be made, because it would be impossible to define. Because no human is perfect, so there would have to some sort of way to describe the infinite ways a human's life was and which of those infinite ways is acceptable to enter heaven. In short, it is nonsense.

They will glorify God for His great goodness, and He will glorify them for their recognition of Him. Very un-boring.

Exact copies of each other so nothing changes, nothing is alive, and nothing exists. Read my exposition of this in my blog essay, "Information Is Alive".

Good is not discernible if there is no contrast of evil. If everyone is equally good, then they are the same. A uniform distribution is the equivalent of no contrast, i.e. non-existence.

I am not advocating evil, rather I am saying that what some people call evil, is rather just diversity and disagreement. For example, did Albert Einstein cause the horrific deaths at Hiroshima? He knew his invention would eventually be used to kill, but he created it any way. Because to not create is to be dead.

Continue with your choice.

You rejoice in superiority. Such a redeeming quality. Yet you forget, you've not been made such a promise.

P.S. I added to my prior post since you replied.

[BADecker]

One rule; one law; one order; don't eat the one fruit. Eat all the rest. Don't eat that one. Honor God by obeying that one rule. After all, honoring God, and thereby glorifying Him, is what man was created for.

People couldn't leave well enough alone back then, and they haven't ever since.

The result is entropy. There was no entropy before that. Man brought the entropy.

Exactly. One boring nirvana with no diversity and very lonely.

Either God can't meddle or he will end up all alone again.

Sorry there is no mathematical way around this.

You don't understand what you are talking about. The people who live with God will have joys that are as diverse as necessary to please them.

You are missing the point that either they are perfect and thus a copy of God, or they are imperfect and thus God's will was not applied.

Do you have children (rhetorical)? We destroyed ourselves before we had the chance to grow up.

If you are speaking about the joys they have in this Universe while they are still imperfect, yeah they rejoice in thinking they are the few ones what won't be perpetually burned with fire. Yet they forget, no such promise was made to them. We are not allowed to judge ourselves and must wait for the narrow gate ex post facto to receive our fate.

Was speaking about the joys of Heaven. Isn't the hereafter the thing you were talking about?

They will glorify God for His great goodness, and He will glorify them for their recognition of Him. Very un-boring.

Exact copies of each other so nothing changes, nothing is alive, and nothing exists. Read my exposition of this in my blog essay, "Information Is Alive".

You seem to want to limit God. Math is a language of man, not of God.

Continue with your choice.

You rejoice in superiority. Such a redeeming quality. Yet you forget, you've not been made such a promise.

P.S. I added to my prior post since you replied.

What? Everyone has at least a touch of pride. Superiority? What does this section mean?

[BADecker]

If we do evil, we increase our risk greatly of being destroyed within this life.

But the real issue here is the assertion of an after life and the claim that a God can punish us for eternity with fire, brimstone, repetitive disembowelment, and gnashing of teeth for eternity.

I do not see mathematically that assertion can be true. If there is any meaningful feedback loop between our Universe and the after life, then the entropy of our Universe collapses to the perfect will of God, meaning a copy of him and the loss of diversity.

On several levels, it appears to be story crafted from existential fear of darkness of night (can't grow crops without the sun) that morphed into a mechanism for mass mind control via propagation of fear of an after life that can't be falsified and doesn't make any sense from an entropic analysis.

I too fell into this psychological trap of believing Christianity because of my idealism and desire to belief in an order that protects good from evil. But my understanding has become refined and more astute (I believe although I am willing to entertain counter logic that is worthy).

The rebuttal is of course that to prove your faith it can't be certain, otherwise there would be no value to be faithful. I break down that logic in terms of the definition of love and mutual respect.

There is the whole problem of mankind. We fall into the trap of believing that we can out-think God. It all starts questioning whether or not God even exists. The complexity of the universe in the face of entropy, combined with the cause and effect of everything, in the face of millions or billions of people formally believing in a god/God, shows that God exists.

[contagion]

If you are speaking about the joys they have in this Universe while they are still imperfect, yeah they rejoice in thinking they are the few ones what won't be perpetually burned with fire. Yet they forget, no such promise was made to them. We are not allowed to judge ourselves and must wait for the narrow gate ex post facto to receive our fate.

Was speaking about the joys of Heaven. Isn't the hereafter the thing you were talking about?

But you've not been made such a definitive promise. So why are you so happy about what you are not assured to receive? (Not to mention that nobody has every verified the promise is not a fable).

It is probably because you don't want your idealism to die. This probably inspires you to act ethically in this life. That was my reason for following Christianity for a while. But it reached a breaking point for me recently when someone told me most people will face Tribulations in 2019. I couldn't reconcile how a religion could make people feel so hopeless. I'd rather keep trying to help the world (in spite of dark clouds looming on the horizon of potential global collapse and maybe even a global pandemic, etc thus appearing like a Tribulation such as the Black Death that killed 60% of Europe's population), than hunker down into a binary mode of either delusion of my assurance or fear of my impending doom. I realized this religion weapon of mass delusion is all about spreading fear and false pride. When religion changed from love to fear and doom, I realized I was in the wrong place and I started to think about it logically. Should I really live in fear or false pride? I thought it over and I articulated these inconsistencies which have been fomenting in my mind and writings for some years now.

But I am still idealistic. I believe we can work for ethical technological innovation. So what is the difference in our motivation? I believe I must act proactively, whereas you likely believe it is sufficient to conform for as long as you don't do what you regard to be evil.

Yet collective religion and the religious have done evil too.

I don't see a difference.

Exact copies of each other so nothing changes, nothing is alive, and nothing exists. Read my exposition of this in my blog essay, "Information Is Alive".

You seem to want to limit God. Math is a language of man, not of God.

If God can't talk to me in a language and logic I can appreciate, then what is the point?

If I just blindly and illogically accept delusion that suits me, then what sort of creature am I?

There is the whole problem of mankind. We fall into the trap of believing that we can out-think God. It all starts questioning whether or not God even exists.

If I can't discern anything, then why not be a Muslim or Buddhist instead?

You are telling me that Christians shouldn't think.

[BADecker]

If you are speaking about the joys they have in this Universe while they are still imperfect, yeah they rejoice in thinking they are the few ones what won't be perpetually burned with fire. Yet they forget, no such promise was made to them. We are not allowed to judge ourselves and must wait for the narrow gate ex post facto to receive our fate.

Was speaking about the joys of Heaven. Isn't the hereafter the thing you were talking about?

But you've not been made such a definitive promise. So why are you so happy about what you are not assured to receive? (Not to mention that nobody has every verified the promise is not a fable).

It is probably because you don't want your idealism to die. This probably inspires you to act ethically in this life.

Everything in life is done on faith. Nobody does anything with the absolute knowledge that there will be a certain, specific outcome. So, when God promises us in the Bible what the outcome will be, we accept the promise based on faith. Our faith is made stronger when we see the outcome of breaking His laws for us for this life. We have trouble and pain when we break the laws for this life. So, why ask for the big trouble by not accepting the salvation He provides?

But I am still idealistic. I believe we can work for ethical technological innovation.

Nothing wrong with that.

So what is the difference in our motivation? I believe I must act proactively, whereas you likely believe it is sufficient to conform for as long as you don't do what you regard to be evil.

The motivation is likely the difference. I don't know what your motivation is. Mine is that God has given me this life to use in all the ways that I see fit to use it while I live it.

Yet collective religion and the religious have done evil too.

I don't see a difference.

Collective religion is a fiction. All religion is people individually exercising their strength one way or another.

The difference is this. The universe and laws of nature work certain ways. If you point the gun at you foot and squeeze the trigger, you will wind up limping to the hospital. It is the laws of nature.

When God says, do not shoot yourself in the foot, He doesn't say it to limit your freedom, or to take joy away from you. He does it for exactly the opposite reason, even if you don't understand why. Just obey... or not.

Exact copies of each other so nothing changes, nothing is alive, and nothing exists. Read my exposition of this in my blog essay, "Information Is Alive".

You seem to want to limit God. Math is a language of man, not of God.

If God can't talk to me in a language and logic I can appreciate, then what is the point?

If I just blindly and illogically accept delusion that suits me, then what sort of creature am I?

Good point. Why did you stop listening to Him by reading the Bible no longer? The things you need for life are written in there. The things you can't understand, like things about the 156th dimension, were left out, because you can't fathom them anyway.

[BADecker]

It is probably because you don't want your idealism to die. This probably inspires you to act ethically in this life. That was my reason for following Christianity for a while. But it reached a breaking point for me recently when someone told me most people will face Tribulations in 2019. I couldn't reconcile how a religion could make people feel so hopeless. I'd rather keep trying to help the world (in spite of dark clouds looming on the horizon of potential global collapse and maybe even a global pandemic, etc thus appearing like a Tribulation such as the Black Death that killed 60% of Europe's population), than hunker down into a binary mode of either delusion of my assurance or fear of my impending doom. I realized this religion weapon of mass delusion is all about spreading fear and false pride. When religion changed from love to fear and doom, I realized I was in the wrong place and I started to think about it logically. Should I really live in fear or false pride? I thought it over and I found these inconsistencies.

Too bad you let someone distract you from the joys of Heaven by placing your focus on some tribulation time.

Everyone dies... or so it seems. That's a fact of this life... or so it seems. Will rejecting the truth change this? Personally, I think that it will at best make things worse.

Any ideals that people have should be greatly increased by the hope of an everlasting life of joy with God in Heaven. What distracted you? Or didn't you really believe it in the first place?

[contagion]

I appreciate you trying to be cordial and even trying to inspire me. It will be very difficult for me to overcome the following.

I don't see logically nor mathematically how any evidence of outcomes in this life can be evidence of an afterlife.

Do you deny the scripture? It says only 144,000 will be saved during the Tribulation. Or if the 144,000 is not literal then the Bible is great ambiguous hogwash subject to any interpretation a person desires.

The lady in the desert is saved because she was blameless. Who amongst us is blameless?

Seems to me you like the filipinos where I am, think of all the good things they can get from God, but ignore the harsh realities of the punishment God will mete out to most people.

I am a person who can handle a fair amount of pain, but probably not as much pain as these natives in the Philippines can handle. I was a competitive long distance runner in high school (sub-35 for 10K, sub 4:30 mile), so I am accustomed to accepting pain over long period of time. I've always asked to be sewed without pain killers. I played American football competitively, even played without a helmet in pickup games and played through a game with a severely broken nose.

I know since late May 2012 what is feels like to be disemboweled without pain medication for 3 days nonstop. And I doubt my medical case was as severe as it can be. I suspect many have no comprehension what horror it would be to have that occur for perpetuity. The Bible makes no definitive statement as to how to classify precisely who will receive that punishment and who will not. You choose to feel all giddy about the part of the Bible you like, and I assume ignore the parts you don't like.

I make that assumption because it appears you are smiling about the tradeoff of an uncertain hope for better afterlife, for having to carry the risk of a horrific afterlife. Given that risk-reward offer, I'd rather no afterlife at all.

I think one of the theories about why collective religions turn so violent (hey the Inquisition is not fiction), is because their happy delusion turns to fear and disillusionment when the reality hits that their hope isn't unassailable.

People who are in happy delusion are perhaps the ones to fear the most when the shit hits the fan. Then again some Christians would work very selflessly during a crisis, so maybe those mass manias aren't representative of most of the religious.

[BADecker]

I don't see logically nor mathematically how any evidence of outcomes in this life can be evidence of an afterlife.

I meant correlations.

God says, "Do not murder." If you listen, you have a peaceful life. If you don't listen, and you go out and murder, not only does your conscience get you, but the police catch you, the judge pronounces 20 years in the slammer. Your life isn't fun anymore.

The point? Since you can see that God is right about murder, why would you think He is wrong about the things He says about salvation? Up to you, though.

Do you deny the scripture? It says only 144,000 will be saved during the Tribulation. Or if the 144,000 is not literal then the Bible is great ambiguous hogwash subject to any interpretation a person desires.

If you truly think that, you either haven't delved into the Revelation, or else you are just playing with me.

The lady in the desert is saved because she was blameless. Who amongst us is blameless?

The lady in the desert is representative of the true church of God (not the Roman Catholic earthly church). The Child she bore is representative of Jesus. The true church of God IS blameless, because they believe in Jesus. The Revelation has a lot of picturesque language.

Seems to me you like the filipinos where I am, think of all the good things they can get from God, but ignore the harsh realities of the punishment God will mete out to most people.

I don't like pain any more than anyone. I thank God that He has allowed me a reasonably pain-free life so far. God doesn't mete out punishment by desire. He allows it in the circumstances of this life at times. He will do it in the "afterdeath" because that is what those people chose for themselves.

I know what is feels like to be disemboweled without pain medication. You have no comprehension what horror it would be to have that occur for perpetuity. The Bible makes no definitive statement as to how to classify precisely who will receive that punishment and who will not. You choose to feel all giddy about the part of the Bible you like, and ignore the parts you don't like.

God doesn't want that kind of pain for anyone. I sure hope my eternal salvation doesn't depend on that kind of pain. Because if it did, I would have to select the pain over missing out on salvation. And I don't like pain any more than anyone else.

[SLVR4ME]

I feel so cheated with your short response...

Saying that servants in the OT someway equate to service workers today is pretty LOL.
How many "servants" does the OT say you can have?
How many days can you beat them without punishment from god?

In society today, can you beat your servants i mean service workers or employees or whatever else you want to equate them to?
Can you also sell or trade their offspring today, like you could when the original holy book was written?

Come on bud, you are either just messing around or....uhh hopefully just messing around.

*Thank you for complimenting my avatar, i wonder if its the only commonality we share 

[contagion]

The point? Since you can see that God is right about murder, why would you think He is wrong about the things He says about salvation?

Because logic is my strong suite. I can see that it doesn't take Godly power to predict that murder leads to bad outcomes. That is not predictive of a God. Nearly any one could tell you that even if they never read the Bible.

Perhaps the "do not commit adultery" is a one that most people wouldn't get intuitively. If you are hurting your wife, you are probably also hurting your offspring if that matters to you. For some alphamales, they don't care, they want to procreate as wide as they can. Perhaps the Bible's wisdom rains down on them eventually, or perhaps the Bible is a tool to keep betamales locked in their sub-class or a social control to keep women from expressing their hypergamy. I am still trying to determine the correct answer to that.

There is deeper wisdom in the Bible that is more convincing and is what held me for a while, e.g. the Proverbs do not be surety for another, 1 Samuel 8 and other scriptures against socialism and communism, Parable of the Talents, Jesus astute point in Mathew 7 about how judging others is mutually destructive, and Jesus's point in Mathew 6:5 about true faith is not showing it to anyone.

But I explained upthread why on balance overall the logic of the Bible fails IMO. It seems to be based on unfalsifiable hope and fear, which are not positive attributes.

Do you deny the scripture? It says only 144,000 will be saved during the Tribulation. Or if the 144,000 is not literal then the Bible is great ambiguous hogwash subject to any interpretation a person desires.

If you truly think that, you either haven't delved into the Revelation, or else you are just playing with me.

There are lots of strawmen theories we can build by trying to build puzzles out of scriptures. I also know that Jesus explained why he spoke in parables. The Bible seems to make a prize if you can build a strawmen that fits your desired delusion. I am leaning now towards the Bible is a cleverly constructed psychological weapon. I even fell for it, because it preys on our weakness.

The lady in the desert is saved because she was blameless. Who amongst us is blameless?

The lady in the desert is representative of the true church of God (not the Roman Catholic earthly church). The Child she bore is representative of Jesus. The true church of God IS blameless, because they believe in Jesus. The Revelation has a lot of picturesque language.

I am aware of the abstract descriptions of churches in Revelation and what will happen to each one.

But there is no way to know which church you belong to. The definitions are not precise. Belief in Jesus alone is not sufficient.

To the Church in Philadelphia
7 “To the angel of the church in Philadelphia write:

These are the words of him who is holy and true, who holds the key of David. What he opens no one can shut, and what he shuts no one can open. 8 I know your deeds. See, I have placed before you an open door that no one can shut. I know that you have little strength, yet you have kept my word and have not denied my name.

Where is the precise definition? Who has kept all his words with their deeds, i.e. who is blameless?

And note again the reference to needing to suffer so much in this life and trying to hold you from thinking for yourself. Always giving yourself to this mind control weapon.

Seems to me you like the filipinos where I am, think of all the good things they can get from God, but ignore the harsh realities of the punishment God will mete out to most people.

I don't like pain any more than anyone. I thank God that He has allowed me a reasonably pain-free life so far. God doesn't mete out punishment by desire. He allows it in the circumstances of this life at times. He will do it in the "afterdeath" because that is what those people chose for themselves.

How are you so sure that "those" isn't you?

When you have felt this indescribable pain, you will may suddenly take this question much more seriously and literally.

It is very difficult for a human to walk in another's shoes until they have.

I see you only focus on the great hope and you don't think any of the risk applies to you. That to me is delusion.

Because if it did, I would have to select the pain over missing out on salvation.

Ha. When you feel such pain, I will see if you still say that after some years to reflect on it.

When I first came through the pain, I told myself I had some idea what Hell is, and it reaffirmed my desire to avoid hell.

But now I looked rationally the offer the Bible has given me, and there is no way to know which church I would be in and what outcome would come to me.

[BADecker]

I feel so cheated with your short response...

Saying that servants in the OT someway equate to service workers today is pretty LOL.
How many "servants" does the OT say you can have?
How many days can you beat them without punishment from god?

In society today, can you beat your servants i mean service workers or employees or whatever else you want to equate them to?
Can you also sell or trade their offspring today, like you could when the original holy book was written?

Come on bud, you are either just messing around or....uhh hopefully just messing around.

*Thank you for complimenting my avatar, i wonder if its the only commonality we share 

See? Just what I don't want to do. Play word games. Your avatar seems to suggest that you like to do it.

[contagion]

SLVR4ME, the point about slavery in the Bible is afaics actually astute. It says that people enslave themselves by for example being lazy and going into great debt. The Bible clearly says the slave owner is to set the slave free after 7 years and to attempt rehabilitate the slave. And yes, the slave owner is entitled to some rewards, after all they are rescuing the slave from the slave's own self destruction. If the slave is misbehaving the slave owner is a position to discipline them. The slave (or his/her parents) put themself in that predicament.

I think denial of reality and nature is one of the worst delusions we can do to ourselves, e.g. denial that collectively forced unnatural equality for women via legislation results in societal collapse.

The Bible is kind of cruelly frank when it points out astutely in the 10 Commandments that children suffer from their parents' mistakes.

http://blog.jim.com/economics/the-future-belongs-to-those-that-show-up/
http://blog.jim.com/images/JapanFert4.png

[BitMos]

at least you can get your ears cleaned... /sarc what you fail to see in this chart is the accessibility of young woman for those corrupts enough to destroy a society for their sexual pleasure. In China, It's called those of coming from the setting sun in arms where all the corrupts have no choice but surrenders their ways and weapons, because they realize that like in all thing corruption can't stand the test of the Path, and that once the time to die has come better leave in peace so that mercy can be found in death. I start to feel that trough Japan history some men have taken a little bit of knowledge from China and imposed their will on others in Japan until someone more knowledgeable came and repeat the same circus. Empire building is boring, all paths have been seen, love, kindness, harmony and prosperity are harder, there is no fog of war to hide in. We will know 01.

[BADecker]

The point? Since you can see that God is right about murder, why would you think He is wrong about the things He says about salvation?

Because logic is my strong suite. I can see that it doesn't take Godly power to predict that murder leads to bad outcomes. That is not predictive of a God. Nearly any one could tell you that even if they never read the Bible.

There is deeper wisdom in the Bible that is more convincing and is what held me for a while, e.g. the Parable of the Talents, Jesus astute point in Mathew 7 about how judging others is mutually destructive, and Jesus's point in Mathew 6:5 about true faith is not showing it to anyone.

But I explained upthread why on balance overall the logic of the Bible fails IMO. It seems to be based on false hope and fear, which are not positive attributes.

Say, I'm not trying to tear you away from what you believe in. Even God doesn't do that. So, why would I?

Do you deny the scripture? It says only 144,000 will be saved during the Tribulation. Or if the 144,000 is not literal then the Bible is great ambiguous hogwash subject to any interpretation a person desires.

If you truly think that, you either haven't delved into the Revelation, or else you are just playing with me.

There are lots of strawmen theories we can build by trying to build puzzles out of scriptures. I also know that Jesus explained why he spoke in parables. They try to make it seem like it is prize if you can build a strawmen that fits your desired delusion. The Bible is a cleverly constructed psychological weapon. I even fell for it, because it preys on our weakness.

Do you mean that you haven't figured out why the "Bible is a cleverly constructed psychological weapon" yet? The reason is that the devil placed a bit of himself into us, genetically, at the time the first two people succumbed to his temptations in the Garden. The Bible has to be cleverly constructed, so that it can root out the devil in us while saving us, hopefully.

The lady in the desert is saved because she was blameless. Who amongst us is blameless?

The lady in the desert is representative of the true church of God (not the Roman Catholic earthly church). The Child she bore is representative of Jesus. The true church of God IS blameless, because they believe in Jesus. The Revelation has a lot of picturesque language.

I am aware of the abstract descriptions of churches in Revelation and what will happen to each one.

But there is no way to know which church you belong to. The definitions are not precise. Belief in Jesus alone is not sufficient.

To the Church in Philadelphia
7 “To the angel of the church in Philadelphia write:

These are the words of him who is holy and true, who holds the key of David. What he opens no one can shut, and what he shuts no one can open. 8 I know your deeds. See, I have placed before you an open door that no one can shut. I know that you have little strength, yet you have kept my word and have not denied my name.

Where is the precise definition? Who has kept all his words with their deeds, i.e. who is blameless?

Avoid the bad parts of all the churches. Embrace the good parts of all the churches.

Seems to me you like the filipinos where I am, think of all the good things they can get from God, but ignore the harsh realities of the punishment God will mete out to most people.

I don't like pain any more than anyone. I thank God that He has allowed me a reasonably pain-free life so far. God doesn't mete out punishment by desire. He allows it in the circumstances of this life at times. He will do it in the "afterdeath" because that is what those people chose for themselves.

How are you so sure that "those" isn't you?

When you have felt this indescribable pain, you will may suddenly take this question much more seriously and literally.

It is very difficult for a human to walk in another's shoes until they have.

I see you only focus on the great hope and you don't think any of the risk applies to you. That to me is delusion.

If I were absolutely doubt free, then I could be sure. Since I am not, I can only work the best that I can in the ways that will increase my faith, while hoping that God will take care of the rest.

Because if it did, I would have to select the pain over missing out on salvation.

Ha. When you feel such pain, I will see if you still say that after some years to reflect on it.

When I first came through the pain, I told myself I had some idea what Hell is, and it reaffirmed my desire to avoid hell.

But now I looked rationally the offer the Bible has given me, and there is no way to know which church I would be in and what outcome would come to me.

What does anyone having pain change in the truth of God and the universe?

The churches listed in the beginning of the Revelation were earthly churches, earthly churches that Jesus chose to be examples of areas where churches can succeed or fail. Be a part of the woman in the desert church, the only church that counts.

[contagion]

If I were absolutely doubt free, then I could be sure. Since I am not, I can only work the best that I can in the ways that will increase my faith, while hoping that God will take care of the rest.

And I can work as best as I can at being good so my life and legacy is not too horrible, yet I don't have to risk some horrendous eternal pain afterlife.

Heaven has never been described in a way that sounded appealing to me. Nothing that was different from this Universe could be interesting. A world with no evil, well then there can't be any discernable good. A world with no competition, risk of failure and change? Then there is no point of doing a darn thing. Just sit around on my arse all day eating grapes and smoking cigars.

At least the Koran promises virgins.

[BADecker]

If I were absolutely doubt free, then I could be sure. Since I am not, I can only work the best that I can in the ways that will increase my faith, while hoping that God will take care of the rest.

And I can work as best as I can at being good so my life and legacy is not too horrible, yet I don't have to risk some horrendous eternal pain afterlife.

Heaven has never been described in a way that sounded appealing to me. Nothing that was different from this Universe could be interesting. A world with no evil, well then there can't be any discernable good. A world with no competition, risk of failure and change? Then there is no point of doing a darn thing. Just sit around on my arse all day eating grapes.

At least the Koran promises virgins.

No evil. Only various levels of glory and joy.  

EDIT: Why not be joyful for someone else who has a greater level of glory and joy than I do?

[contagion]

No evil. Only various levels of glory and joy. 

What glory and joy comes from a lack of risk and competition?

Do I have to have sex all day with the same woman for the rest of eternity? What else can I do with my time, if there is no competition and risk any more? Become an alcoholic?

The Bible is correct, there is time for everything. A time to live and a time to die. A man who can't compete might as well be dead. That is what we are here for. We get old and our loves one take care of us as we prepare to go back to the dirt and give way to the young guys.

[BADecker]

No evil. Only various levels of glory and joy. 

What glory and joy comes from a lack of risk and competition?

Who says that there won't be risk or competition? If God makes it so that there will be glory and joy in everything, then there will be joy and glory in everything.

Do I have to have sex all day with the same woman for the rest of eternity? What else can I do with my time, if there is no competition and risk any more? Become an alcoholic?

We don't know what it will be like, but it will be glorious and joyful.

The Bible is correct, there is time for everything. A time to live and a time to die. A man who can't compete might as well be dead. That is what we are here for. We get old and our loves one take care of us as we prepare to go back to the dirt and give way to the young guys.

Then comes the resurrection.

[contagion]

at least you can get your ears cleaned... /sarc what you fail to see in this chart is the accessibility of young woman for those corrupts enough to destroy a society for their sexual pleasure. In China, It's called those of coming from the setting sun in arms where all the corrupts have no choice but surrenders their ways and weapons, because they realize that like in all thing corruption can't stand the test of the Path, and that once the time to die has come better leave in peace so that mercy can be found in death. I start to feel that trough Japan history some men have taken a little bit of knowledge from China and imposed their will on others in Japan until someone more knowledgeable came and repeat the same circus. Empire building is boring, all paths have been seen, love, kindness, harmony and prosperity are harder, there is no fog of war to hide in. We will know 01.

Can anyone translate this to comprehensible English? Sorry I can't understand what he is saying. Reads like gibberish to me.

We don't know what it will be like, but it will be glorious and joyful.

nebulous warm fuzzies.

Thanks for the discussion. I appreciate you sharing the effort and time.

I am not gloating thinking all Christians are fools. I think your personal belief system is yours. It is not my place to judge it for you. I was sharing the logic I have thus far about my belief system.