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Author Topic: [GLBSE] BFLS.RIG - BFL Hardware mining & Sales  (Read 26015 times)
Michail1
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June 22, 2013, 05:19:00 AM
 #241

FPGA Minirig:
cost:   $15295
shares: 6058 per minirig
      
SC Minirig:    (this is the original 1.5Thps unit; I can re-run these for the 500Ghps unit if it makes more sense)   
upgrade cost: $14705 (a guess; does anyone remember the original number?)

$14,604.00 per invoice minus the shipping - $348 (credited back)

And the reason for my post.....
I see the 6058 shares for the minirig (fpga).
It was mentioned that the upgrade would be 11842 shares.

Uhhhmmm, I might be looking at this wrong; however, my question is:
If I were to have a minirig (fpga - $15k) earning (for example) 1BTC daily on a 25Ghash machine, then why would I pay to upgrade (ASIC - $15k more) 1.5THash for simply double shares to earn 2BTC daily?

Am I looking at this wrong?


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June 22, 2013, 05:27:56 AM
 #242

I'm working on a deal for more power and space... stay tuned (like ya'll wouldn't), so it may not be a problem going forward.

If you're searching these lines for a point, you've probably missed it.  There was never anything there in the first place.
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June 22, 2013, 03:18:17 PM
 #243

FPGA Minirig:
cost:   $15295
shares: 6058 per minirig
      
SC Minirig:    (this is the original 1.5Thps unit; I can re-run these for the 500Ghps unit if it makes more sense)   
upgrade cost: $14705 (a guess; does anyone remember the original number?)
I see the 6058 shares for the minirig (fpga).
It was mentioned that the upgrade would be 11842 shares.

Uhhhmmm, I might be looking at this wrong; however, my question is:
If I were to have a minirig (fpga - $15k) earning (for example) 1BTC daily on a 25Ghash machine, then why would I pay to upgrade (ASIC - $15k more) 1.5THash for simply double shares to earn 2BTC daily?

Am I looking at this wrong?
Hi Michail1, there are 2 key points to understand:

1] the upgrade to SC is 'free' for all shareholders. If you have 6058 shares of BFLS.RIG today, you will end up with 6058 shares of BFLS.RIG.SC. That would not represent a full minirig SC, however, just a fraction of one (something like 6058/11842, or roughly half). This is how the upgrade can be done for no out-of-pocket cost to the shareholders; Inaba has already paid for the SC upgrade and his contribution is converted into extra shares for himself (based on Inaba's upgrade cost relative to the FPGA hardware value).

2] there is no 'double your shares' here. Whatever shares you have now, you will have the same amount after conversion to SC. The difference is that an FPGA share represents roughly 4Mhps now, but a converted share represents something much higher: more like ~35Mhps to ~125Mhps depending on how much hardware Inaba is able to convert. So after the (free) conversion, your hashrate (and, thus, earnings) will be much higher than today.

Hope that clarifies things a bit.

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Michail1
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June 22, 2013, 03:31:17 PM
 #244

FPGA Minirig:
cost:   $15295
shares: 6058 per minirig
      
SC Minirig:    (this is the original 1.5Thps unit; I can re-run these for the 500Ghps unit if it makes more sense)   
upgrade cost: $14705 (a guess; does anyone remember the original number?)
I see the 6058 shares for the minirig (fpga).
It was mentioned that the upgrade would be 11842 shares.

Uhhhmmm, I might be looking at this wrong; however, my question is:
If I were to have a minirig (fpga - $15k) earning (for example) 1BTC daily on a 25Ghash machine, then why would I pay to upgrade (ASIC - $15k more) 1.5THash for simply double shares to earn 2BTC daily?

Am I looking at this wrong?
Hi Michail1, there are 2 key points to understand:

1] the upgrade to SC is 'free' for all shareholders. If you have 6058 shares of BFLS.RIG today, you will end up with 6058 shares of BFLS.RIG.SC. That would not represent a full minirig SC, however, just a fraction of one (something like 6058/11842, or roughly half). This is how the upgrade can be done for no out-of-pocket cost to the shareholders; Inaba has already paid for the SC upgrade and his contribution is converted into extra shares for himself (based on Inaba's upgrade cost relative to the FPGA hardware value).

2] there is no 'double your shares' here. Whatever shares you have now, you will have the same amount after conversion to SC. The difference is that an FPGA share represents roughly 4Mhps now, but a converted share represents something much higher: more like ~35Mhps to ~125Mhps depending on how much hardware Inaba is able to convert. So after the (free) conversion, your hashrate (and, thus, earnings) will be much higher than today.

Hope that clarifies things a bit.

It seems to clarify a little assuming it was Inaba paying for the upgrade in equipment...
My stance is.... What if I (Me) pays for the upgrade from FPGA to ASIC.
Example:  I pay $15k for FGPA and I pay $15k upgrade to ASIC.
I would have paid from 6058 to 11842 shares?  (Which by example gives me from 1BTC to 2BTC daily?)

If this is the case, then I would be a fool to buy such.  This is why I am confused and maybe I am in the wrong thread based on ME paying for the devices vs simply shares that people can buy in on.
Because.... I would NOT want to pay for an 25GH unit making 1BTC per day and pay for a 1.5TH unit to make only 2BTC a day based on shares.

Much higher?  Yes, if 25ghash today is 1BTC daily, then a ASIC 1.5TH should be 60 times (60btc) daily.
(Sorry if I am still misunderstanding)

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June 22, 2013, 04:24:50 PM
 #245

It seems to clarify a little assuming it was Inaba paying for the upgrade in equipment...
My stance is.... What if I (Me) pays for the upgrade from FPGA to ASIC.
Example:  I pay $15k for FGPA and I pay $15k upgrade to ASIC.
I would have paid from 6058 to 11842 shares?  (Which by example gives me from 1BTC to 2BTC daily?)

If this is the case, then I would be a fool to buy such.  This is why I am confused and maybe I am in the wrong thread based on ME paying for the devices vs simply shares that people can buy in on.
Because.... I would NOT want to pay for an 25GH unit making 1BTC per day and pay for a 1.5TH unit to make only 2BTC a day based on shares.

Much higher?  Yes, if 25ghash today is 1BTC daily, then a ASIC 1.5TH should be 60 times (60btc) daily.
(Sorry if I am still misunderstanding)
What you are describing sounds more like hosting: i.e. you own an FPGA minirig, you have Inaba hosting it under the BFLS.RIG umbrella, and want to pay to convert it to an SC minirig. So you would end up owning an SC minirig, and would expect to get the income generated by such a device. Actually this is not much different than the 'regular' shareholders here who effectively own fractional (as opposed to full) FPGA Singles and/or minirigs.

Let's continue with your scenario: hypothetically, if you had a $15k FPGA minirig (6058 BFLS.RIG shares) and if you were to pay an additional $15k to upgrade it to a minirig SC then, yes, you would end up with double the shares (11842 shares). But those would all be converted to BFLS.RIG.SC shares, not FPGA, and those 11842 shares represent a full SC minirig (1.5Thps). I say 'hypothetically' because if you haven't paid for your upgrade yet, it may be too late. I believe BFL's upgrade window has closed and even if not, the upgrade cost would be much higher now that the hardware costs have doubled recently.

But back to your specific example: double the shares for $15k, yes. But after the (again, no-cost to you) conversion they would no longer be 'fpga shares'; they would be 'sc shares'. So you'd have the full hashrate of an SC 1.5Thps minirig generating 60x the income of your current 6058 FPGA minirig shares. Hopefully this makes things somewhat clearer.

Now, the details of share conversion (how many extra shares per SC Single? How many per SC minirig? Will BFLS shares be converted to BFLS.RIG; etc) haven't yet been finalized. But the bottom line is that if you own shares equivalent to an SC minirig, you will get the income expected from an SC minirig. Just like it has always been with BFLS/BFLS.RIG.

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Michail1
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June 22, 2013, 06:02:32 PM
 #246

It seems to clarify a little assuming it was Inaba paying for the upgrade in equipment...
My stance is.... What if I (Me) pays for the upgrade from FPGA to ASIC.
Example:  I pay $15k for FGPA and I pay $15k upgrade to ASIC.
I would have paid from 6058 to 11842 shares?  (Which by example gives me from 1BTC to 2BTC daily?)

If this is the case, then I would be a fool to buy such.  This is why I am confused and maybe I am in the wrong thread based on ME paying for the devices vs simply shares that people can buy in on.
Because.... I would NOT want to pay for an 25GH unit making 1BTC per day and pay for a 1.5TH unit to make only 2BTC a day based on shares.

Much higher?  Yes, if 25ghash today is 1BTC daily, then a ASIC 1.5TH should be 60 times (60btc) daily.
(Sorry if I am still misunderstanding)
What you are describing sounds more like hosting: i.e. you own an FPGA minirig, you have Inaba hosting it under the BFLS.RIG umbrella, and want to pay to convert it to an SC minirig. So you would end up owning an SC minirig, and would expect to get the income generated by such a device. Actually this is not much different than the 'regular' shareholders here who effectively own fractional (as opposed to full) FPGA Singles and/or minirigs.

Let's continue with your scenario: hypothetically, if you had a $15k FPGA minirig (6058 BFLS.RIG shares) and if you were to pay an additional $15k to upgrade it to a minirig SC then, yes, you would end up with double the shares (11842 shares). But those would all be converted to BFLS.RIG.SC shares, not FPGA, and those 11842 shares represent a full SC minirig (1.5Thps). I say 'hypothetically' because if you haven't paid for your upgrade yet, it may be too late. I believe BFL's upgrade window has closed and even if not, the upgrade cost would be much higher now that the hardware costs have doubled recently.

But back to your specific example: double the shares for $15k, yes. But after the (again, no-cost to you) conversion they would no longer be 'fpga shares'; they would be 'sc shares'. So you'd have the full hashrate of an SC 1.5Thps minirig generating 60x the income of your current 6058 FPGA minirig shares. Hopefully this makes things somewhat clearer.

Now, the details of share conversion (how many extra shares per SC Single? How many per SC minirig? Will BFLS shares be converted to BFLS.RIG; etc) haven't yet been finalized. But the bottom line is that if you own shares equivalent to an SC minirig, you will get the income expected from an SC minirig. Just like it has always been with BFLS/BFLS.RIG.

Hello,
Yes, that is exactly what I had meant.
You cleared it up with regards that I would be converted from BFLS.RIG to BFLS.RIG.SC which would earn 60 times the current rate (assuming I did have the minirig and did prepay for the asic upgrade).
I guess it would have to be thought about for people that later paid for the upgrade to ASIC minirig AFTER the price changed and after the minirig was changed from 1.5th to .5th.

Thanks.  Of course I might have more questions.  Thanks again.

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June 22, 2013, 07:41:11 PM
 #247

I'm working on a deal for more power and space... stay tuned (like ya'll wouldn't), so it may not be a problem going forward.

Great news! Tuned at 1000%! Grin
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June 25, 2013, 11:21:52 AM
 #248

How do one get involved in this , are shares being sold some where ?
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June 25, 2013, 10:01:22 PM
 #249

Not now. The BFLS IPO (a public offer) was over a year ago: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=75433.0 and BFLS.RIG a year ago: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=89902
Then, until October, people were able to trade the shares at GLBSE. Now the shareholders are kind of rentiers.
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June 26, 2013, 03:03:47 PM
 #250

Looks like the payout script may need a kick ... Wink

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June 27, 2013, 11:08:36 AM
 #251

Looks like the payout script may need a kick ... Wink

+1 Wink
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June 28, 2013, 02:38:23 AM
 #252

Oh, I just looked it up now that this thread reappeared and it seems I have still one single unclaimed share in BFLS.RIG... Shocked

Any way to still claim that?

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June 30, 2013, 09:13:23 PM
 #253

So... Eclipse went from 2 to 8TH... any news ?
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July 01, 2013, 09:01:15 PM
 #254

Gigavps had an early order for 4 minirigs = 6 GH/s.
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July 01, 2013, 09:15:44 PM
 #255

Gigavps had an early order for 4 minirigs = 6 GTH/s.

I believe BFLS.RIG also had an early order for 2 rigs/3TH.
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July 15, 2013, 12:57:19 PM
 #256

Still no news? Cry
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July 15, 2013, 01:38:29 PM
 #257

It's only been three weeks. Smiley

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July 15, 2013, 09:38:38 PM
 #258

Ok Josh, it's time ...

I know you ordered 2*1.5TH Asic rigs way before Giga so why aren't you sharing profits with your shareholders ?
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July 15, 2013, 10:11:09 PM
 #259

Because I have no minirigs.  As soon as I get some, I will.

If you're searching these lines for a point, you've probably missed it.  There was never anything there in the first place.
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July 15, 2013, 10:17:30 PM
 #260

Because I have no minirigs.  As soon as I get some, I will.

Not possible.

Sorry, I don't believe you.

Eclipse went from 2 to 10 TH... and you don't have a rig ?
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